Childhood exposure to violence

[Montcalm]

If all parents do the same maybe the world would be better.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I'll just say that part of Mike's success depended on the movie he showed his son. Blackhawk Down is one of the newer war movies which remove the romanticism and false heroism from war. The result from having him watch Saving Private Ryan, a Bridge Too Far, or similar movies would be a child who learned that being a soldier is not at all fun--whereas showing him some bullshit "Battle of the Bulge"-like movie would probably have the opposite result.

It's kind of like contrasting John Wayne flicks with Unforgiven.

[HemlockGrey]

What? No "Kelly's Heroes"?

[The Yosemite Bear]

The guy who wrote "Road To Perdition" watched the whole "Lone Wolf & Cub" series with his son. Partaily out of research for the book, partailly to get the kid to respect and understand violence.

Nothing wrong here with what you did.

The sort of Violence I hope no kid ever sees is their (Step)dad hitting their mother.

[Peregrin Toker]

Blackhawk Down is one of the newer war movies which remove the romanticism and false heroism from war. The result from having him watch Saving Private Ryan, a Bridge Too Far, or similar movies would be a child who learned that being a soldier is not at all fun--

Hmm... what would "Apocalypse Now" have done??

It's kind of like contrasting John Wayne flicks with Unforgiven.

Funny that you mentioned the John Wayne, as he made The Green Berets, one of the few war films ever which was directly endorsed by the US Army. (eek!)

[Robert Treder]

Well done, my lord. Growing up, my parents provided a similar environment for me. Nothing was taboo, but things such as violence and heavy sexuality were always provided context when I was younger. My parents guided me rather than restricting me.

For example, I got Doom when I was in 4th grade (10 yrs old). I played it all the time, but if I had started to go crazy and spew bullshit about wanting to chainsaw people to death, my parents would have talked to me and explained to me why that was inappropriate, rather than simply removing the game or never letting me play it in the first place.

I feel that this kind of environment will produce children who are socially, emotionally, and intellectually healthier than those children who are raised in an environment of extreme censorship and deprivation.

[Peregrin Toker]

but if I had started to go crazy and spew bullshit about wanting to chainsaw people to death, my parents would have talked to me and explained to me why that was inappropriate, rather than simply removing the game or never letting me play it in the first place.

What sort of person would rant about wanting to chainsaw people to death in the first place??

[Shinova]

It's probably a slim chance, but I just realized that if someone did what Wong did with their kid, there's a chance that the kid would say that, instead of not wanting to be a soldier so that he won't get killed, he might say that he wants to be a soldier so that he can go kill all the bad people or something like that.

[Lord Pounder]

but if I had started to go crazy and spew bullshit about wanting to chainsaw people to death, my parents would have talked to me and explained to me why that was inappropriate, rather than simply removing the game or never letting me play it in the first place.

What sort of person would rant about wanting to chainsaw people to death in the first place??

oops

[Cpt_Frank]

he might say that he wants to be a soldier so that he can go kill all the bad people or something like that.

Not with a movie that has such a strong anti-war message like BHD.

@Darth Wong:
smart move!

[Sriad]

he might say that he wants to be a soldier so that he can go kill all the bad people or something like that.

Not with a movie that has such a strong anti-war message like BHD.

@Darth Wong:
smart move!

Yea, I can't imagine wanting to be a soldier after seeing BHD. It had this incredable visceral immediacy... Reading doesn't hurt either. Catch-22 or Nothing New on the Western Front would have done a good job too, though I guess you could hardly expect a kid to read them... But yea, situation well handled.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Excellent solution IMO, my dad said that I shouldn't join the Army, for the same reason your son said, when I said I was considering joining the Army to pay for college (ROTC program), and since he was an officer in the army for 20 years I certainly took his advice to heart.

Btw, on a side note I'm sure Fundies wouldn't have a problem with the solution you took towards the situation....... as long as you used We Were Soldiers instead of Black Hawk down.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

he might say that he wants to be a soldier so that he can go kill all the bad people or something like that.

Not with a movie that has such a strong anti-war message like BHD.

@Darth Wong:
smart move!

Yea, I can't imagine wanting to be a soldier after seeing BHD. It had this incredable visceral immediacy... Reading doesn't hurt either. Catch-22 or Nothing New on the Western Front would have done a good job too, though I guess you could hardly expect a kid to read them... But yea, situation well handled.

Uhhhh you mean All Quiet on the Western Front right?

[Peregrin Toker]

Yea, I can't imagine wanting to be a soldier after seeing BHD.

Unless, of course, you're a real misanthrope.

[XPViking]

Darth Wong,

Does your son still play violent video games or does he think twice about it?

XPViking

[Cpt_Frank]

Not with a movie that has such a strong anti-war message like BHD.

@Darth Wong:
smart move!

Yea, I can't imagine wanting to be a soldier after seeing BHD. It had this incredable visceral immediacy... Reading doesn't hurt either. Catch-22 or Nothing New on the Western Front would have done a good job too, though I guess you could hardly expect a kid to read them... But yea, situation well handled.

But if you get the movie, the 30s version, not the 79 version, the equipment they use there is horrible.

Uhhhh you mean All Quiet on the Western Front right?

[Alyeska]

he might say that he wants to be a soldier so that he can go kill all the bad people or something like that.

Not with a movie that has such a strong anti-war message like BHD.

@Darth Wong:
smart move!

I did not see an anti-war message to the movie. That is like saying that Saving Private Ryan had an anti-war message. What I saw was a movie about soldiers trying to do their jobs. That and the never leave a man behind mindset that got them into the mess but also showed incredible courage and honor.

[Lagmonster]

Excellently handled, Mike. I hope you take it as a compliment when I say that not one parent in a thousand would figure out how to handle such a situation. Most people think it's easier to say "You CAN'T do/say that!" than to explain why we would want to say that in the first place.

[Setzer]

Some people may claim you traumatized the lad, but I think you did good to handle violence in a mature manner.

[Dennis Toy]

The media-violence thing is ridiculous. Me i have seen every violent movie made since 1978 and you don't see me going around killing people.
Some of these movies especially "Total recall" the most violent action movie of the 1990's taught me is about heroism.

Same thing for Saturday Morning Cartoons, nowadays they are boring as shit, all about going to school, going to the mall, going getting the newest clothers or passing a test, no more cars tranforming into robots, no more men with laser guns fighting aliens, no more monsters getting their asses handed to them. You have all the soccer moms and the anti-violence nazis to thank. in 1997, the FCC stated that stations have to play educational programming.

Believe me MR. wong, your son watching black hawk down didn't hurt him. I seen bloody flicks like "die hard 2" "Robocop" and "Friday the 13" as a child.

[Peregrin Toker]

Same thing for Saturday Morning Cartoons, nowadays they are boring as shit, all about going to school, going to the mall, going getting the newest clothers or passing a test, no more cars tranforming into robots, no more men with laser guns fighting aliens, no more monsters getting their asses handed to them.

AARGH!! Good I had the chance to see Transformers when I was a young child! Optimus Prime, thy spirit willst live on.

Well, at least it's not that that artsy-fartsy anime where NOTHING ever happens because the setting is a library?? (Can't remember its name, but some guy on this forum once described it as "Animated Tranquilizer"?)

[seanrobertson]

OK, time for a personal anecdote.

My son, like all boys of his age in our society, plays violent videogames. I couldn't control this if I wanted to; his whole peer group plays Halo and Goldeneye and all sorts of first-person shooters on their X-boxes and Playstations, and even though we don't own a console gamebox, he is a console gameplayer.

With that in mind, I figured I might as well let him play violent games on his home computer, since he was being left out (for a while, we insisted that he play only driving/racing games, but that policy is history), because he would feel left-out otherwise and he would just play them on his friends' consoles anyway (and no, using our parental power to ostracize him from his friends is not a fucking option).

But at the same time, I was somewhat concerned that he is very young, and may not be able to comprehend the magnitude of what war and violence is all about. One of his friends has already mentioned that when he grows up, he wants to be a soldier, and these kids are 7 years old. So I took an unusual step.

I let him watch Blackhawk Down. Uncensored.

He was frightened during some of the parts, and excited during others. And then we discussed it. I asked if he wanted to be a soldier when he grew up. He said no. I asked him why. He said "because you can get killed really easily."

Lesson learned. Violence is a scary thing. I'm comfortable with what I did (although some idiot like Darkstar will probably try to quote parts of this post out of context to prove I'm a monster), and I think that if anything, the problem with kids and violence is not so much that they see it, but that they see it without any context of discussion and awareness of what it is and what it means.

Comments?

Only one: your detractors can try to accuse you of many things, but you know--and I think we all can tell--you're a good father.

I would like to say more but since I'm not a parent (yet...one of these days, I trust), and I don't think I can really add anything that's not totally obvious, I'll refrain Suffice to say, I agree with you; I watched a lot of violent TV as a wee lad, but I was taught to put what I saw in the proper mental place. And I turned out okay.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I just remembered the scene from "Robocop" in which Murphy is blown to bits. I need to go act that out with a water gun and my cats

(Yes, guys. I'm kidding. I wouldn't do that to Dax or Bucky. They rule. I'll go blast a person instead.)

[weemadando]

Blackhawk Down is one of the newer war movies which remove the romanticism and false heroism from war. The result from having him watch Saving Private Ryan, a Bridge Too Far, or similar movies would be a child who learned that being a soldier is not at all fun--

Hmm... what would "Apocalypse Now" have done??

Umm, be smoking dope, painting his face with camo oil, looking for playboy bunnies, then demanding a surfboard and a helicopter.

It's kind of like contrasting John Wayne flicks with Unforgiven.

Funny that you mentioned the John Wayne, as he made The Green Berets, one of the few war films ever which was directly endorsed by the US Army. (eek!)

Yes, and what a wonderful piece of shit it was.

[Gandalf]

Well done, my lord. Growing up, my parents provided a similar environment for me. Nothing was taboo, but things such as violence and heavy sexuality were always provided context when I was younger. My parents guided me rather than restricting me.

For example, I got Doom when I was in 4th grade (10 yrs old). I played it all the time, but if I had started to go crazy and spew bullshit about wanting to chainsaw people to death, my parents would have talked to me and explained to me why that was inappropriate, rather than simply removing the game or never letting me play it in the first place.

I feel that this kind of environment will produce children who are socially, emotionally, and intellectually healthier than those children who are raised in an environment of extreme censorship and deprivation.

That's my upbringing words for word, except I got Doom when I was 8. I think I turned out Ok.

[Sothis]

I think it helps of course that Black Hawk Down is based on real events, whereas of course games like Halo are pure fantasy- when the reality is shown to you, even in a movie, it can very sobering. Watching live pictures of Baghdad being bombed reminded me that the real thing is far, far scary than watching a gorefest.