Palpatine trips down the stairs(RAR)

[FaxModem1]

Right before the two Jedi Qui Gon Jinn and Obi Wan Kenobi arrive at Naboo in the Phantom Menace, Palpatine gets ready on Coruscant to communicate with his Trade Federation lackies when he trips and falls down the stairs of the Senate building due to his rather cumbersome robe. Due to the Republic's medical technology, this would be fine, if he didn't suddenly break his neck on the floor on the way down. What happens from this point onward, as his machinations are the cause of the events of the Prequel trilogy and the subsequent Original trilogy?

AKA, what happens to the puppets when the puppeteer is gone?

[Lord Revan]

There's probably no Galactic empire but the fall of the Republic will probably happen (Palpatine didn't cause that just struck the final nail in the coffin) then there's probably be a period of crisis before republic is rebuilt is pre-PT EU is anything to go by.

[Crazedwraith]

The Trade Fed gets put down much harder and more quickly without Palpatine pulling the strings. (Wasn't the bureaucrat holding Valorum back a Palpatine lackey?) And without Dooku it doesn't get back up to the organise the CIS. So no clone wars.

From TPM only, Maul is not a planner or much of anything except a fighter and tracker. Does he have bigger ambitions in his *shudder* Clone Wars appearances? I feel like he's going to skulk around stabbing individual jedi when he can rather than enact anything that's going to tobble the republic.

I really don't think the republic would fall. (technically it didn't fall in canon. It won the clone war and was transformed into the Empire.) There may be a period of strife but I think reformers like Bail Organa and Padme would get enough influence to pull it back.

[Darth Tanner]

The blockade is broken within days if not immediately, The Trade Federation may even grass up their Sith contacts to try and get out of the legal problems they will face with no Sidious to support them from the courts.

Maul tries to continue the plan but he lacks the contacts Sidious built up or inherited and from the Clone Wars he is far more direct in his actions so he is far more likely to play his hand openly and get detected by the Jedi, potentially ending the line of Sith forever. The death of Sidious may lift the shroud of the dark side, revealing pretty much all the game plans Maul could put in place.

With no Clone Wars the Jedi are free to hunt down Maul even if he goes into hiding, Dooku never falls and the Jedi, now likely knowing how long the Sith hid in the shadows are free to lead the way on combating corruption.

The Republic and Jedi stutter on for another thousand generations facing other problems and dealing with them as most states do.

Anakin lives his life fixing broken down equipment for Watto before being bought by Beru Lars as a toy boy where he wanders out into the wilderness and gets killed by a Jawa.

[The Romulan Republic]

I kind of feel that destiny will still draw Anakin into larger events. He is the Chosen One. Also, he's already starting to use the Force on his own without training (his piloting). That kind of skill is going to get noticed. He'll be bought up by someone (possibly a Dark Side user, Sith or not) or noticed by a passing Jedi or something like that. It may happen when he's too old to be trained as a Jedi, but it'll happen.

If nothing else, he might get freed along with his mother. And he might not be content to just live on Tatooine forever. Owen's lie about him working on a freighter might actually turn out to be true.

[Borgholio]

Anakin may still be a slave of Watto's if the Jedi never came to Tatooine in the first place. Watto only sold Shmi because he lost money betting against Anakin in the race that the Jedi encouraged him to enter in.

[Simon_Jester]

There's probably no Galactic empire but the fall of the Republic will probably happen (Palpatine didn't cause that just struck the final nail in the coffin) then there's probably be a period of crisis before republic is rebuilt is pre-PT EU is anything to go by.

Questionable. Palpatine won't be recruiting Dooku to form the CIS. There may be trouble with individual factions that 'historically' formed the CIS, but there is no reason to assume they will become organized and centralized into an entity capable of overthrowing the Republic.

[NecronLord]

I can't give a canon answer that springs to mind particularly, but I can give a legends one: Darth Plagueis would continue with his plan using a different apprentice, as it was, fundamentally, his plan. Likely he would have a stooge actually run for office. As he wasn't dead at this point.

[Crazedwraith]

I can't give a canon answer that springs to mind particularly, but I can give a legends one: Darth Plagueis would continue with his plan using a different apprentice, as it was, fundamentally, his plan. Likely he would have a stooge actually run for office. As he wasn't dead at this point.

That is one thing I am so glad is Legends.

[NecronLord]

Yeah, basically the Plagueis book makes Palpatine not-responsible-for-the-clone-wars except in execution, and leaves him as conceptually the guy who came up with Endor, but not the Clone Wars, which really cheapens him.

[RogueIce]

The Trade Federation was already shitting their pants because the Jedi showed up. If they couldn't get in contact with "Lord Sidious" they would have undoubtedly capitulated then and there. Possibly, as mentioned, giving up the contact information which may or may not lead the Jedi to Maul.

So in Canon, who knows? Even in TCW Maul seemed to be as much about hurting Kenobi as he was in legitimately building up a Crime Empire. And he wouldn't have his brother along to help him, because the Nightsisters only enhanced Savage on Dooku's request (who presumably is not getting corrupted now). And even if he did go take over crime syndicates and such, the Jedi wouldn't have a war to distract them so a bunch of crime syndicates attacking Republic member worlds would get the full attention of the Jedi Order. Recall one of the reasons he picked Mandalore was almost certainly his revenge angle against Kenobi, but he wouldn't have that in this scenario; so the circumstances of any attempted planetary takeovers may be much, much different.

[NecronLord]

Of course, without Dooku becoming corrupted, he might well be a powerful and legitimate voice for reform. Who knows how he would use his vast wealth, talents and connections? He might well manage to peacefully reform the Republic, if that is his wish.

[RogueIce]

And as TCW illustrates, the Jedi Order was losing a lot of support because of the war and their involvement. Without said war, the Order might well retain much of it's moral authority, which would greatly assist any legitimate reform efforts led by Dooku. Which we can already somewhat surmise from Episode 2, where the Jedi Order did in fact believe Dooku was being legitimate and sincere because he was a former Jedi - until they discovered he was a Sith, obviously.

[Zixinus]

Pretty much everything falls apart and the Clone Wars either don't happen or are replaced by a series of other crisis. It was Palpatine's machinations that the Clone Wars began and protracted the way they did. Without Palpatine, the puppets no longer know their script and would make a mess of the play. They will drop and move however they will and leave a tangled web of their strings that will have to be unraveled before anything else could be done.

The Jedi will be in a bit of trouble for ordering an army they don't recall ordering (and they probably will notify them sooner or later, a clone army isn't something you can just throw away if the client doesn't come). If for nothing else, what could they even do with it?

Dooku will probably become a critic or a reformer to the Republic. What I wonder is whether he would he attracted to the Seperatists without Palpatine? Palpatine strikes me as someone who moves pieces according to their potential, I don't think Dooku became the leader of the Seperatists just because he was the next apprentice in line. It might be that Dooku might move there on his own.
I don't think it would be impossible for him to fall without Palpatine. However, I doubt he'd fall so far and would be as powerful or be as great a threat without Palpatine's influence and spy networks.

The other question is whether would the Jedi get a hint of Palpatine and the Sith now that his machinations be interrupted? If they do, how will they react? It might be that this would be a problematic issue in the Order, seeing as they were a hair-breath away from disaster and falling into a trap without them knowing anything but a few bad feelings. They would learn that there is a Sith apprentice out there too, one that they'd need to hunt down. If Anakin is really the Chosen One, I wouldn't be surprised that he'd get entangled about that somehow anyway. Tatooine is a magnet for plots.

The real question is what would Darth Maul do in his master's place? Try to understand and carry out his plan? Make his own plans? Take what he can and hide? Is the apprentice ready to suddenly take on the boots of the master? Would he try to salvage some of his master's influence and power, or would he move away and try to become a master in his own right first?
Palpatine has not groomed Maul to be his public replacement. I don't think there is anyone that could publicly take his place.
But who knows what Maul would do without vengeance clouding his mind? In Clone Wars, Maul came across as someone who did learn from his Master and did understand the importance of patience. He was true Bane-Sith, someone who had a strategy in mind. I think he might be a more potent threat than most people here realize.

[Captain Seafort]

The Jedi will be in a bit of trouble for ordering an army they don't recall ordering (and they probably will notify them sooner or later, a clone army isn't something you can just throw away if the client doesn't come). If for nothing else, what could they even do with it?

Assuming the army has been ordered. All that was said, IIRC, was that the army was ordered ten years before AotC and that TPM was also ten years before AotC. There was no indication in which order these events occurred.

[Adam Reynolds]

Yeah, basically the Plagueis book makes Palpatine not-responsible-for-the-clone-wars except in execution, and leaves him as conceptually the guy who came up with Endor, but not the Clone Wars, which really cheapens him.

That is the classic example of what is wrong with the EU. The events of Plagueis' death as described in ROTS were fantastic, easily among the best dramatic scenes in the entire PT. They should have been left at that in order to keep the sense of mystery intact, which was a critical element that increased the quality of the scene.

It's the same reason that quality horror movies often hide the monster. Not showing it is often more effective as the imagination can horrify you more than what you can see on screen.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm inclined to agree with the post immediately above...

Yeah, basically the Plagueis book makes Palpatine not-responsible-for-the-clone-wars except in execution, and leaves him as conceptually the guy who came up with Endor, but not the Clone Wars, which really cheapens him.

Although thematically it plays up the whole "Sith keep losing because of chronic backstabbing disorder" angle. Because then Plagueis is the real genius who came up with a great plan... and then, exactly as per Sith doctrine, especially in the post-Bane era, his apprentice stabs him in the back and tries to take power himself. And succeeds to an extent because it's that good a plan... but then ultimately fails because while he's got a great plan and plenty of resources, he personally is an arrogant fool.

[Solauren]

I don't know why everyone is bashing the Darth Plagieus novel and claiming it made Sidious look the fool.

Go re-read it, pay attention while Sidiious is killing his master, then READ THE BOOK AGAIN. Sidious started manipulating Plagieus once Sidious became the Ambassadors assistant. Questioning ideas and then putting his own suggestion in place to spin them.

The army to fight beside the Jedi was Sidious's idea. Plagieus wanted and army to fight the Jedi, and Sidious made the suggestion that 'gave' Plagieus the idea to raise an army for the Republic.

He played the lap-dog to feed Plagieus's belief the Rule of Two was over, and they'd be eternal partners. Sidious used Plagieus to set everything up, and then killed him when no longer needed.

[Solauren]

So, with that in mind, back to the original thought...

Going by the 'new canon', we have just Darth Maul. We have absolutely no idea if he knows the plan, or has any political skill, or anything like that. The Trade federation also didn't know about him. The Blockade is going to fall apart pretty quickly unless Maul can convince them that he is speaking for Sidious. What happens at that point is unknown. Maul could order the Jedi killed, or could say 'I'll be there to deal with this shortly.', or could say 'Ha, screw you!'.

Going by 'Legends/Pre-Disney' canon, Plagieus now has a problem: His apprentice is dead, Darth Maul has no idea there is another Sith Master, and the network Plagieus was using to manipulate events has been in shambles for years. The Sith are back to square one (Literally), AND they are now fractured. Worse, if Plagiues doesn't reign in (and probably kill) Maul quickly, Maul might reveal himself and bring the Republic down on him. That could lead back to Palpatine, and then to him.

In short, in Legends Cannon: Plagieus has to move quickly, kill Maul, and then start from scratch and find another apprentice. The Blockade fails, their is a Republic/Jedi Investigation, and Anakin probably escapes notice until he's older.

Of course, the possibility exists that as Anakin's "fame" and so forth growth, Plagieus notices him, and realizes here's the perfect new apprentice.....

[FaxModem1]

With no galactic war to deal with, could the Jedi eventually deal with the Hutts or the slavery that is beyond the Republic? That is one possible way the Jedi could possibly encounter Anakin, not counting some Jedi is on business in Tatooine and meets the young lad somehow.

[Simon_Jester]

The Jedi will be in a bit of trouble for ordering an army they don't recall ordering (and they probably will notify them sooner or later, a clone army isn't something you can just throw away if the client doesn't come). If for nothing else, what could they even do with it?

Assuming the army has been ordered. All that was said, IIRC, was that the army was ordered ten years before AotC and that TPM was also ten years before AotC. There was no indication in which order these events occurred.

Thing is, as I understand it, the clone army was ordered by Dooku at the behest of Palpatine- and as far as I know, Palpatine did not recruit Dooku until after Maul's death at the end of Episode I.

[Elheru Aran]

Recruiting Dooku while at the same time training Maul are not mutually exclusive. It's never said that he didn't recruit Dooku *before* Maul died, after all. However I do think that it's probably a given that Dooku likely wasn't a full Sith at that point, only being strung along by Palpatine as a second-stringer or as the actual apprentice and keeping Maul as an enforcer. But who knows; most of that EU has been scrubbed and it's hard to tell what the exact situations are from the films and novelizations.

[FaxModem1]

Well, back in the EU days, a big part of Dooku's fall seemed to stem from his old apprentice, Qui Gon, being killed, which hastened Dooku's fall to the dark side. Without Palpatine whispering in his ear, or Maul not being able to duel Qui Gon on Naboo, Dooku may stay retired/with the Jedi Order.

[FedRebel]

There's probably no Galactic empire but the fall of the Republic will probably happen (Palpatine didn't cause that just struck the final nail in the coffin) then there's probably be a period of crisis before republic is rebuilt is pre-PT EU is anything to go by.

I'd agree, but I'd go further and say the Republic would collapse like the Roman Empire, the end result being several states formed on cultural and ideological lines, with Coruscant being a Theocratic stronghold ruled by the Jedi. A Galactic 'Dark Age' would result.

[The Romulan Republic]

I don't agree that the Republic is doomed to collapse. It could happen, of course, but the fact is that it was a mostly peaceful state with no major outside threat (only internal problems) until Palpatine came along.

Edit: Its interesting to speculate on how a split might have gone though.

I disagree about Coruscant being a Jedi theocracy, or at least that exclusively. It likely remains capital of whatever remains of the Republic in a split unless one of the other factions outright destroys the Republic or at least seizes Coruscant. If that happens, well, history's greatest urban warfare bloodbath seems plausible.

If the Republic goes under, Alderan may head up a Republic-like successor. Naboo may be a member. Ditto Mandalore if it remains under pacifist control.

The various corporate entities that joined the separatists largely break away and form independent corporate states/dictatorships/oligarchies.

The Hutts can pursue their criminal empire without fear of interference.