The aeroplane was struck by a 9N314M warhead as carried on a 9M38-series missile and launched by a Buk surface-to-air missile system. This conclusion is based on the combination of the following: The recorded sound peak, the damage pattern found on the wreckage caused by the blast and the impact of the fragments, the bow-tie and cubic shaped fragments found in the cockpit and in the bodies of the crew members in the cockpit, the injuries sustained by three crew members in the cockpit, the analysis of the in-flight break-up, the analysis if the explosive residues and paint found and the size and distinct, bow-tie, shape of some of the fragments.
I don't think there can be any doubt anymore who is responsible for the crash. Of course, nobody will ever expect the Seperatists or their Russian masters to pay up.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
I was on a KLM flight to Amsterdam from KL last month and to be honest looking at the flight path I'm not sure if the only thing keeping another error from occurring is people realising they can shoot down airliners with those missiles rather than any effort by the airlines.
I do know how to spell
AniThyng is merely the name I gave to what became my favourite Baldur's Gate II mage character
Offcourse, Russian news media is saying the Ukrain army probably shot the plane down. Which doesnt make a lot of sense (the sepetatists dont use any aircraft afaik). Its pretty sad that they are still denying any guilt after so much evidence
Yeah they even claimed that it was not a Buk missile. Pathetic.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
Oh no the latest BS is that it was some model of Buk Russia no longer uses; with no attempt to explain or identify such a weapon by model number or industrial code. The best part is the 'test' they did on an unpressurized 0mph IL-86 to claim it proved 'their' model of Buk could not have caused the damage actually produced damage much like what is shown on pieces of MH17 debris. But because the...stationary.... partial hulk didn't breakup they are proclaiming that this proves it wasn't Russian spec super Buk.
Pretty funny coming from people who already revealed satellite photos of a Su-25 shooting it down. But now all that's left is awaiting the 10 year long European super trial which will probably end up becoming so farcical as to end up casting real doubt on Russian guilt.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Sea Skimmer wrote:Oh no the latest BS is that it was some model of Buk Russia no longer uses; with no attempt to explain or identify such a weapon by model number or industrial code. The best part is the 'test' they did on an unpressurized 0mph IL-86 to claim it proved 'their' model of Buk could not have caused the damage actually produced damage much like what is shown on pieces of MH17 debris. But because the...stationary.... partial hulk didn't breakup they are proclaiming that this proves it wasn't Russian spec super Buk.
Did they explain how the old model managed to get the metal fillings that are only in place in the newer models?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
I can understand Russia denying shooting de plane, de plane down. They don't have anything to gain from admitting it and certainly have something to lose by admitting it because that would mean admitting they were there and that Russia can do wrong. And thats crazy talk, Americ.......I mean Russia is perfect, Putin is a god among men, there are no gay people in Russia, and rumors of their economy tanking is the talk of traitors. You aren't a traitor Comrade are you?
What is the international community really going to do if they don't fess up? They violate peoples airspace, invade other countries, create violence against minorities, and support dictators and probably terrorists already unchallenged. America did the exact same fucking things (though we admitted we actually invaded the cuntries we done invaded, hell we made a media event about it) and the worst the international community did was write some strongly worded reports and people on the internet act like snooty shits towards Americunts but thats aboot it. Russia ain't got shit to worry about considering the international community already hates their guts and they got their own internet defense league.
Video could come out showing confirmed Russian soldiers pulling the trigger on a current time Buk and Russia would still deny it and their citizens would probably believe it.
Thanas wrote:
Did they explain how the old model managed to get the metal fillings that are only in place in the newer models?
Actually the very newest and very oldest marks of missile for this system do not use the relevant prefragmented warhead according to manufacturer data published before the war. Several mid vintage models use it. This is covered in the Dutch report text. The Russian assertion more or less amounts to a claim that Russia only has the latest missiles and all others have magically evaporated from the Russian inventory, which is nonsensical for other reasons.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
Sea Skimmer wrote:Pretty funny coming from people who already revealed satellite photos of a Su-25 shooting it down. But now all that's left is awaiting the 10 year long European super trial which will probably end up becoming so farcical as to end up casting real doubt on Russian guilt.
Were those the photos that claimed to be of an Su-25 but actually showed something that looked like an Su-27 firing a dubious looking "missile" at the airliner? Along with the claims the evil Ukrainian Su-25 closed in and "finished off" the airliner with guns?
As laughable as these contradictory claims from Russia might seem, observing their actions recently it seems their MO is simply through out a load of contradictory FUD whenever they get criticised for something; each piece of evidence being individually flimsy doesn't matter, as it sows more than enough doubt that opinions have been formed and news cycles have moved on before any of it can be critically demolished.
That is exactly their strategy and one of Putins PR guys admitted it easily three years ago in public.
Remember how the crimea story changed over time?
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------ My LPs
The best part about that PR strategy is that the act itself of admitting that that is the PR strategy just sows even more confusion and makes it yet more effective.
