Star Wars: Rebels

[Boeing 757]

Any likelihood of a Vader vs Ventress duel? Man, how epic would it be that Vader puts her out of her misery once and for all?
BTW what this about BDZ being referenced on the show? I'm having a hard time following what is happening tragically.

[Rogue 9]

An Imperial propaganda broadcast early on said that some planet or other fell under the Base Delta Zero initiative for it's own benefit, which makes no sense, because if you're trying to cover up the fact you're glassing planets, the last thing you're going to do is make the command code for doing it public knowledge even in the context of lying about what it actually is.

Also, if Ventress is dead, then perforce she will not be participating in any duels, with Vader or otherwise. Even absent that, though, the show isn't about her; a conflict involving her and Vader with no involvement from the rebels would just be gratuitously out of place.

[biostem]

I'm excited for this. There was one scene that showed a new ship of some sort - I wonder if the Phantom is gonna get destroyed at some point...

[Typhonis 1]

An Imperial propaganda broadcast early on said that some planet or other fell under the Base Delta Zero initiative for it's own benefit, which makes no sense, because if you're trying to cover up the fact you're glassing planets, the last thing you're going to do is make the command code for doing it public knowledge even in the context of lying about what it actually is.

I doubt Base Delta Zero is the actual command code to carry out that kind of mission. More than likely it's the code term used for the mission itself because I do not see it being carried out without the same protocols we would use to have a ballistic missile submarine launch it's birds at their assigned targets.

In other words. Yes it is a Code Base Delta Zero , that term never changes. However You need command authorization codes. The ones that unlock the firing keys , to execute it. A random message sent through the secure line backdoor emergency channel will be looked at. No authentication or authorization codes by someone OTHER than the captain of the ship? Not happening.

[Lord Revan]

An Imperial propaganda broadcast early on said that some planet or other fell under the Base Delta Zero initiative for it's own benefit, which makes no sense, because if you're trying to cover up the fact you're glassing planets, the last thing you're going to do is make the command code for doing it public knowledge even in the context of lying about what it actually is.

I doubt Base Delta Zero is the actual command code to carry out that kind of mission. More than likely it's the code term used for the mission itself because I do not see it being carried out without the same protocols we would use to have a ballistic missile submarine launch it's birds at their assigned targets.

In other words. Yes it is a Code Base Delta Zero , that term never changes. However You need command authorization codes. The ones that unlock the firing keys , to execute it. A random message sent through the secure line backdoor emergency channel will be looked at. No authentication or authorization codes by someone OTHER than the captain of the ship? Not happening.

yeah it's likely that there's more to it then sending the message "excute Base Delta Zero" to the ship captain in question.

It should be noted that in Legendaries Base Delta Zero as was done by just cranking the weapons to Max yield without any special equipment and as far as I can tell it's not been decribed in current canon. That said it's not unlikely that imperial weapons might have failsafes to prevent them from "acccidently" targeting planets with full power shots. so cranking a turbolaser to max and targeting a planet might cause a targeting error and the gun might not fire, this is speculation of course but it would make sense, unless you want to think that empire would kill its own citizens and destroy its infrastructure because of "evulz". if such failsafes exist then the "Base Delta Zero" protocol would probably bypass those failsafes.

[Typhonis 1]

[
yeah it's likely that there's more to it then sending the message "excute Base Delta Zero" to the ship captain in question.

It should be noted that in Legendaries Base Delta Zero as was done by just cranking the weapons to Max yield without any special equipment and as far as I can tell it's not been decribed in current canon. That said it's not unlikely that imperial weapons might have failsafes to prevent them from "acccidently" targeting planets with full power shots. so cranking a turbolaser to max and targeting a planet might cause a targeting error and the gun might not fire, this is speculation of course but it would make sense, unless you want to think that empire would kill its own citizens and destroy its infrastructure because of "evulz". if such failsafes exist then the "Base Delta Zero" protocol would probably bypass those failsafes.

We did see ATATs increase firepower on Hoth so the same protocols may exist for starships.

[Lord Revan]

[
yeah it's likely that there's more to it then sending the message "excute Base Delta Zero" to the ship captain in question.

It should be noted that in Legendaries Base Delta Zero as was done by just cranking the weapons to Max yield without any special equipment and as far as I can tell it's not been decribed in current canon. That said it's not unlikely that imperial weapons might have failsafes to prevent them from "acccidently" targeting planets with full power shots. so cranking a turbolaser to max and targeting a planet might cause a targeting error and the gun might not fire, this is speculation of course but it would make sense, unless you want to think that empire would kill its own citizens and destroy its infrastructure because of "evulz". if such failsafes exist then the "Base Delta Zero" protocol would probably bypass those failsafes.

We did see ATATs increase firepower on Hoth so the same protocols may exist for starships.

True though the "protocol" at Hoth consisteted of Veer saying "target. Maximium firepower!". I suspect that the Starship targeting protocols are a bit more complex so that a captain won't end flattening a city when all he wanted to do was support the ground forces with orbital fire, unless you want to argue that turbolasers are so weak that dropping a rock from orbit would do more damage then a turbolaser bolt.

[Purple]

If your starship captains and crews are stupid enough to make such a mistake that indicates a serious failing in your selection and training procedures as well as the lack of a "check power setting" step in the aiming procedure. And frankly that indicates to problems much worse than loosing a city or two.

[Lord Revan]

If your starship captains and crews are stupid enough to make such a mistake that indicates a serious failing in your selection and training procedures as well as the lack of a "check power setting" step in the aiming procedure. And frankly that indicates to problems much worse than loosing a city or two.

note that I said "accident" as in it's just as much an accident as when an officer hated by his men dies of friendly fire as in it's not an accident at all. Possibly starting World War 3 is only part of the reason why there's precise protocols to follow when dealing with nukes, other is limiting the amount of power a single person can have.

So it's not a case incompetense but rather making sure that Starship captain doesn't try to use his ship to build a personal empire.

[Thanas]

Was that Asajj Ventress as the bounty hunter? It would be very interesting if she became a part of the Rebel Alliance.

Having finally watched that trailer, I do think that is Ventress as the bounty hunter - or at least somebody very close in body posture and movement. The voice sounded different due to the helmet I think.

[Rogue 9]

An Imperial propaganda broadcast early on said that some planet or other fell under the Base Delta Zero initiative for it's own benefit, which makes no sense, because if you're trying to cover up the fact you're glassing planets, the last thing you're going to do is make the command code for doing it public knowledge even in the context of lying about what it actually is.

I doubt Base Delta Zero is the actual command code to carry out that kind of mission. More than likely it's the code term used for the mission itself because I do not see it being carried out without the same protocols we would use to have a ballistic missile submarine launch it's birds at their assigned targets.

In other words. Yes it is a Code Base Delta Zero , that term never changes. However You need command authorization codes. The ones that unlock the firing keys , to execute it. A random message sent through the secure line backdoor emergency channel will be looked at. No authentication or authorization codes by someone OTHER than the captain of the ship? Not happening.

I just rewatched Rise of the Old Masters. The broadcast was interrupted by Gall Trayvis' first shown transmission, and when the normal Imperial broadcast cuts back in, all we hear is, "another successful planetary liberation, utilizing the Base Delta Zero initiative." They shut off the broadcast after that, so that's all we know about Base Delta Zero in the new canon to my knowledge.

[SAMAS]

[
yeah it's likely that there's more to it then sending the message "excute Base Delta Zero" to the ship captain in question.

It should be noted that in Legendaries Base Delta Zero as was done by just cranking the weapons to Max yield without any special equipment and as far as I can tell it's not been decribed in current canon. That said it's not unlikely that imperial weapons might have failsafes to prevent them from "acccidently" targeting planets with full power shots. so cranking a turbolaser to max and targeting a planet might cause a targeting error and the gun might not fire, this is speculation of course but it would make sense, unless you want to think that empire would kill its own citizens and destroy its infrastructure because of "evulz". if such failsafes exist then the "Base Delta Zero" protocol would probably bypass those failsafes.

We did see ATATs increase firepower on Hoth so the same protocols may exist for starships.

True though the "protocol" at Hoth consisteted of Veer saying "target. Maximium firepower!". I suspect that the Starship targeting protocols are a bit more complex so that a captain won't end flattening a city when all he wanted to do was support the ground forces with orbital fire, unless you want to argue that turbolasers are so weak that dropping a rock from orbit would do more damage then a turbolaser bolt.

That's because they are.

You know, assuming you have a rock of sufficient size.

[Rogue 9]

Well, that was a thing. Spoiler

So Wolffe sold them out to the Empire and has been intercepting Ahsoka's attempts to contact Rex. You'd think they'd have made a much bigger deal of that.

[Adam Reynolds]

True though the "protocol" at Hoth consisteted of Veer saying "target. Maximium firepower!". I suspect that the Starship targeting protocols are a bit more complex so that a captain won't end flattening a city when all he wanted to do was support the ground forces with orbital fire, unless you want to argue that turbolasers are so weak that dropping a rock from orbit would do more damage then a turbolaser bolt.

Veers was however the overall ground commander. He would have the discretion to do whatever he wanted in that regard within reason.

[Lord Revan]

True though the "protocol" at Hoth consisteted of Veer saying "target. Maximium firepower!". I suspect that the Starship targeting protocols are a bit more complex so that a captain won't end flattening a city when all he wanted to do was support the ground forces with orbital fire, unless you want to argue that turbolasers are so weak that dropping a rock from orbit would do more damage then a turbolaser bolt.

Veers was however the overall ground commander. He would have the discretion to do whatever he wanted in that regard within reason.

Emphasis mine, Hoth had no infrastructure or resources that Empire wanted to absolutely preserve (sure capturing rebel hardware, especially things like computers or com equipment would be nice but you wouldn't screw yourself over if you didn't capture any). So Veers has more or less a free playing ground, how ever a stardestroyer captain wouldn't normally be so lucky when supporting ground forces and I think we can both agree that flattening a city without a good reason to do so isn't reasonble.

[FaxModem1]

Well, that was a thing. Spoiler

So Wolffe sold them out to the Empire and has been intercepting Ahsoka's attempts to contact Rex. You'd think they'd have made a much bigger deal of that.

Spoiler

I think that it's going to be a thing dealing with the clones for the rest of the season. They've all had some sort of lobotomy to have their chips removed, and more than likely that's affected their personality a bit. Rex seems the most normal of the three, but we don't know what kind of damage he actually has. Could be tying into future episodes, where they have to deal with the...eccentricities of a 'free' clone.

[Rogue 9]

Spoiler

In the Rebels Recon bit they put up after the episode, they said that Gregor's eccentricities are the result of trauma from some huge explosion he was in during the Clone Wars. They didn't say anything about the aftereffects of removing the control chips.

[RogueIce]

Well, that was a thing. Spoiler

So Wolffe sold them out to the Empire and has been intercepting Ahsoka's attempts to contact Rex. You'd think they'd have made a much bigger deal of that.

I feel like it was going to be, but then the probe droid interrupted them because that was a more immediate issue.

Judging by a scene from the NYCC trailer, Kanan at least isn't letting things drop. So I feel like it'll be addressed next episode.

[Thanas]

Anybody else thinking the Spoiler

control chips story for Order 66 makes no sense at all? I mean, nobody in the entire Republic noticed they had chips in their brain? And why wouldn't more clones remove their chips then?

[Adam Reynolds]

Anybody else thinking the Spoiler

control chips story for Order 66 makes no sense at all? I mean, nobody in the entire Republic noticed they had chips in their brain? And why wouldn't more clones remove their chips then?

I have said the same thing repeatedly. Why is this in spoilers? Doesn't everyone already know what occurred at the end of Clone Wars? Or is it because revealing what it was would spoil that it would appear again. Anyway. Spoiler

The problem is that the Clone Wars series ran into a trap. They portrayed the clones as sympathetic soldiers. Sympathetic soldiers don't perform acts of genocide. What is problematic is that this flies in the face of the movie. The Kaminioian cloners directly state "They are totally obedient, taking any order without question. We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host." What more explanation was needed than that? Clones are more obedient than average and don't question orders, regardless of whether they don't make any sense.

The worst problem with that arc is that of how insanely stupid the Jedi were. The Jedi go from learning about the existence of a control chip inside their entire supposedly loyal army, one that caused the death of a Jedi at that, to learning that Count Dooku is Tyranus, who they knew recruited Jango Fett as the clone template. How did they not put two and two together?

Then there is the thematic problem with the idea. What made Order 66 so horrible was how it was a reflection on the Holocaust and other acts of genocide. It was how otherwise loyal soldiers could, without hesitation, shoot their Jedi leaders in the back. Control chips ruined that.

The new EU(including Clone Wars/Rebels) seems to have much the same problem as the old. By striving for independent stories rather than consistency with the films, they have created a continuity that doesn't really work with the films. That's not to say it's bad, but both cannot go together.

As good as her character ultimately became, Ashoka is part of this problem. Did anyone watch AOTC -> ROTS and think that Anakin had a padawan in the time in between the films. It made sense that Anakin and Obi-Wan were off having adventures throughout the Clone Wars, but giving Anakin a padawan was ridiculous. She should have been a young padawan turned knight that fought alongside them instead.

[Batman]

So Rex and the others removed their control chips...but they're the only ones amongst the unspecified but presumably large number of clones to do so?
This doesn't work with the movies or TCW. They should've left it at ordinary brainwashing. Some individuals being able to shake that makes sense.

[biostem]

So Rex and the others removed their control chips...but they're the only ones amongst the unspecified but presumably large number of clones to do so?
This doesn't work with the movies or TCW. They should've left it at ordinary brainwashing. Some individuals being able to shake that makes sense.

I would have written it differently - basically, portray the clones as needing constant training to reinforce the indoctrination they received, and the clones that survived many battles, (especially in the more distant theaters), not having access to said reinforcement trainings, thus becoming more independent. These soldiers would not exhibit any problem taking and following normal orders, but something as strongly in contrast with all their prior battles, as Order 66, would give them pause, before blindly following it...

[Lord Revan]

These soldiers would not exhibit any problem taking and following normal orders, but something as strongly in contrast with all their prior battles, as Order 66, would give them pause, before blindly following it...

that's kind of how it was in the legendaries, while I don't think there was an example of clones outright refusing to execute Order 66, there's at least 1 example of clones going "maybe we should check this before act because it makes no sense!" and saving a group of Jedi because they thought that the other clones were acting hasty.

[FaxModem1]

So Rex and the others removed their control chips...but they're the only ones amongst the unspecified but presumably large number of clones to do so?
This doesn't work with the movies or TCW. They should've left it at ordinary brainwashing. Some individuals being able to shake that makes sense.

Only ones that Ahsoka(and us as the audience) know of. For all we know, Rex's buddies were the last of the Clone troopers that were even around to get the operation. Maybe a majority of the clones believed that Fives was just off his rocker and that having voluntary brain surgery is something you would only do if you were already crazy.

It's also possible that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of freed clones, and they're all in minuscule numbers around the galaxy doing oddjobs, retired, or some other menial task, but Rex or Ahsoka don't have access to them.

Unless the episode somewhere REALLY does state that Rex and company are the ONLY clones in the entire galaxy that had the surgery.

[Adam Reynolds]

So Rex and the others removed their control chips...but they're the only ones amongst the unspecified but presumably large number of clones to do so?
This doesn't work with the movies or TCW. They should've left it at ordinary brainwashing. Some individuals being able to shake that makes sense.

That wouldn't have fit the fact that every Clone absolutely carried out the order without hesitation. Even Cody, who was otherwise equivalent to Rex in his level of independence. Frankly having heroic clones was the problem in the first place. The whole point of the final scene of AOTC was that the clones would become the Empire and serve it loyally. Not that they would break free and join the Rebellion.

that's kind of how it was in the legendaries, while I don't think there was an example of clones outright refusing to execute Order 66, there's at least 1 example of clones going "maybe we should check this before act because it makes no sense!" and saving a group of Jedi because they thought that the other clones were acting hasty.

That was an outright refusal. Vader even executed the squad responsible himself. Said soldiers were also clone commandos who in the legendaries were were generally stated to be more independent, with less genetic modification to make them obedient.

Clone Wars does not have that same element given that Fives and Echo are able to become ARC troopers themselves despite otherwise being normal clones.