Doctor Who 9x05 - The Girl Who Died (spoilers aplenty)

[Parallax]

...
...
WTH was that?

I know Who tends to play pretty loosely with historical accuracy but I'd have thought that the BBC props people would know that the whole horned viking helmets thing was just a myth made for an opera.
Nice to see the glasses get smashed at the start, though despite the Doctor saying "No TARDIS, no sonic" ... he still used the glasses to help save the day anyhow.
Eels? The stupid is strong with this story. Intergalactic warriors of the highest calibre and their armour doesn't have any sort of insulation?
Fake Odin is the only warrior standing in the hall at the end *including the vikings*. Unless he purposefully came into the situation unarmed, what's stopping him single handedly killing every person in the hallway? Their trickery is played out. They have no weapons. No armour. Kill them and smash the recording.

But the real mess happens at the end, wherein the Doctor makes the special guest star immortal.
At this point I need to remind you of two previous Doctor Who stories; Underworld and Mawdryn Undead. These two stories share one theme and, stop me if you've heard this one, that is that immortality irrevocably screws you up. And while you might dismiss those as stories from long ago ... well, the events that led up to Underworld were so massive that they led to a the huge shift in Gallifrey culture and brought in their strict non-interventionist policy. You don't give advanced tech to other species and you don't go around making others immortal.
Mawdryn Undead - some aliens get their hands on immortality granting Gallifrey tech and it ends up being a tremendous curse.
For a more recent example, look at Captain Jack. He's so erroneous that the TARDIS doesn't want to be anywhere near him.
There is a reason, despite clearly having the know-how and tech, that the Time Lords themselves are not immortal. They know it is a massive mistake. They know it never ends well, to the point it is one of the central driving points of their very culture.
The Doctor, in this story, is a giant idiot.

And if someone could find the CGI person who did the time lapse landscape at the end and give them a smack on the back of the head, that'd be nice. That looked cheap and nasty.

Despite the first four episodes ranging from good to fantastic, this fifth ep was ... pretty awful.

[The Romulan Republic]

The resurrection/immortality thing is pretty fucked up, though at least the Doctor admits that he might have done the wrong thing (and he apparently wasn't sure that it would make the Viking girl immortal). Though why in God's name he thought it was a good idea to give her the power to do the same to someone else...

I mean, I know his reason. I just don't accept it.

In any case, the episode felt cliche and rushed (the revelation about the Doctor's face also seemed rushed), the means of the Doctor's victory was uncommonly silly, and his decision at the end was odd even aside from the ethical issues- I mean, why save that particular person like that? I guess he just had had enough and happened to reach his breaking point right then, but still.

Still, nice to have a nod to Ten and all, although the Time Lord Victorious might have been more appropriate.

This episode was not entirely without its moments, but probably the weakest one so far this season.

[Iroscato]

EVERYTHING about the episode was cheap and nasty. The casual explanation for 12's face (that parts of the fandom had been itching to see addressed since Capaldi was cast). The 'oops, mighta sorta created another immortal being with a magic tech biscuit' bollocks. The look of the village, the woefully sub-par CGI, the costumes - shit, even the acting was worse than usual aside from Capaldi, yet again the strong point in an episode not up to scratch.
Just the whole thing was a damn mess. It's like this series' Kill The Moon. Up to now S9 has been great however, maybe they'll redeem this tragedy with The Woman Who Lived...

[Captain Seafort]

There is a reason, despite clearly having the know-how and tech, that the Time Lords themselves are not immortal.

Interestingly, the Doctor's exact words were "barring accidents, she may now be functionally immortal". It might be be nothing, or it might get brought up, but the ability to "live forever, barring accidents" is the exact phrase the Second Doctor used in The War Games to describe the Time Lords.

[Broomstick]

Seems to me that if you live long enough, assuming you actually do something other than sit in a bunker, an accident will get you. Presumably this tech works even better on the Mire (or however they spell it) but since they're Mighty Warriors riding off into danger (at least some of the time - unless they're always raiding backwater low-tech villages) I assume that sooner or later they die in battle.

The Minyans in "Underworld" were "functionally immortal" thanks to regeneration, but although they are arguably a bit screwed up their mission and the fact they are in a group keeps them from getting too screwed up. Mawdryn and his crew are fucked up at least in part because they're subject to a flawed form of regeneration that screws them up physically and leaves them in pain. At least part of the risk of immortality is having a bad form of immortality. Not everyone gets totally ruined by it, the Sisterhood of Karn has immortality and seems to cope with it, but we don't really see that much of their society or how they manage the problems of living forever.

Ashildr has, essentially, been given eternal youth - her physical body will be maintained and repaired indefinitely barring failure of the tech keeping her alive or an accident so massive the tech can't fix her anymore. Physically, that's not a bad sort of immortality. Mentally, it could really suck. The Doctor, from his own lifetime, understands some of the downfalls like everyone else around you dying (something that wouldn't be such an issue if he still had Time Lord society to retreat to, or lived in a society where everyone was like that, like Karn) so he gives Ashildr an option to make an immortal companion and one can only hope she doesn't get stupid with that (imagine having an immortal ex to follow you around forever, pissed as hell at you and a bit vindictive... well, sort of like the relationship the Doctor and the Master/Mistress have).

I think the Doctor fears that he himself is now immortal - he makes reference to that occasionally, including earlier in this episode in his line about a good death "unless you're immortal". He also mentions, in "Kill the Moon", that he's not entirely sure he won't just keep regenerating if he gets shot over and over. He's gone past the allotted regenerations, the rules may no longer apply, and the Time Lords are exactly the sort of bastards to make the keeper of the key to their exile immortal as a form of insurance policy.

That said - some of the ideas behind this story are quite meaty - the execution of the story line is, as our English friends say, quite rubbish in the particulars. Electric eels? Really? Because the Vikings of that time period wouldn't have known about electric eels, much less have them, because electric eels are native to South America. And you don't see flashes in the water when such eels do their zapping thing, and you can't see electricity running along wires like chained lightning bolts. The point about the alien leader being in a room full of unarmed non-warriors has also been made. Oh, and the whole testosterone drinking thing - what, testosterone is common to many alien species?

The thing is, I think the Doctor knows what he did to Ashildr is a bad idea. I suspect/hope the next episode addresses that and how he is going to "fix" the problem. The thing is, when he saved Caecilius and family he didn't change history, just transplanted the family from one location to another and any resulting ripples seem to have died out. Ashildr's continued life might not cause a "tidal wave" but being immortal she keeps making ripples and sooner or later one might start to build rather than die out. (So far as we know, Captain Jack either didn't make such ripples, or managed to avoid wrecking the universe with them) The point in "Fires of Pompeii" is that it was OK for the Doctor to save one family because it made no difference to the larger universe even if it was immensely important to the individuals concerned. This time around the save might not be so benign. He should have learned that back during "The Waters of Mars". The Doctor has rules, and there are reasons for that.

I'm not entirely upset about the Doctor's revelation about his face. It could have been done better, though, and should have paralleled "Fires of Pompeii" more, where he's saving just a few out of a group rather than just the one fallen.

Yeah, some poor execution here - the show that got Aztec swords correct 50 years ago can't avoid the disproven cliche of horned viking helmets? C'mon guys, no excuse. And the time lapse landscape at the end looked cheesy and could have been done better - something showing the landscape changing, for cryin' out loud. Trees growing up and falling down, seasonal changes, something, c'mon guys, you can do better than that.

[Eternal_Freedom]

While I'm not exactly thrilled with this episode, it was refreshing to see the Doctor dealing with a, well, smaller-scale threat than the usual "this will fuck up the planet" type. I'm also hopeful that the second part will go a ways to redeeming it, like The Witch's Familiar did for The Magician's Apprentice.

Also, I do hope Ashildr realises that it is, basically her fault that the main threat happened, Clara had basically convinced the Mire to leave before she went and declared war on them. Though it was also refreshing to see Clara fail at doing something significant.

[The Romulan Republic]

Honestly, Clara was pretty good this episode, at least compared to how she's sometimes portrayed.

[Eternal_Freedom]

My point exactly. She was actually likable. If she'd been written this way for all of last season I would be quite happy she'd stayed.

Actually, she's been considerably improved all season really, apart from the early parts of the season opener.

[The Romulan Republic]

Its not her failing that makes her more likeable to me though.

I don't know. She seemed, for the most part, like a decent and capable person trying to do her best in a tough situation, with mixed results.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm not saying that her failing made her likable (since it wasn't her fault she failed after all) but it's a refreshing change at any rate.

[The Romulan Republic]

Actually, when you think about it, Clara has failed to accomplish a lot of what she wanted.

She couldn't have the Doctor as a boyfriend, even though she was obviously interested. She kept screwing up her relationship with Danny and couldn't bring him back from the dead (and its kind of surprising that that wasn't brought up when the Doctor resurrected the Viking girl). She failed to kill Missy. Even her convincing the Doctor not to destroy Gallifrey is a situation where at least equal credit goes to the Moment/Bad Wolf.

Edit: Sure, Clara gets hyped a bit, but at the end of the day, she takes quite a few losses.

[FaxModem1]

That was a mediocre episode with an interesting cliffhanger. Following Ashildr throughout time could be an interesting story. Honestly, this episode was mostly a filler.

[Starglider]

As pointed out above, numerous major writing problems that made this a total mess. Neither the protagonists, the antagonists nor the setting were terribly credible.

BThese two stories share one theme and, stop me if you've heard this one, that is that immortality irrevocably screws you up.

Eh, this never really made sense, certainly not on new who. Sci-fi has moved on from tired cautionary tales about curing aging, there are now plenty of settings where it is simply a medical inconvenience that has been eliminated. Doctor Who had nanogenes that could reverse aging and resurrect dead people in the first new season ('The Empty Child'). Apparently in the wider galaxy the capability is now so common as to part of an expendable footsoldier grunt medical kit. It's only a big deal to primitive humans. Captain Jack was another thing entirely, being actually immune to death in an effectively supernatural sense, rather than just having good medical nanotech.

[JLTucker]

The resurrection/immortality thing is pretty fucked up, though at least the Doctor admits that he might have done the wrong thing (and he apparently wasn't sure that it would make the Viking girl immortal). Though why in God's name he thought it was a good idea to give her the power to do the same to someone else...

I mean, I know his reason. I just don't accept it.

Why not? The Doctor has said many times that being alone is not something anyone should strive for and if I recall, has even said that he hates it. I think that is one of the reasons he has companions because immortality and traveling the universe in a solitary state is heartbreaking. Allowing her to choose someone to spend an eternity with doesn't sound like a bad idea.

[JLTucker]

The Doctor is finally starting to have feelings for those other than his companions. Sure, he has saved humankind a multitude of times, but I think he does it because it's fun. He has even reduced his actions to "Fuck 'em. They survive anyway. I'll apply utilitarian ethics here."

Also recall the cue cards in "Under the lake." He is conscious of how much of a shit he is.

[The Romulan Republic]

The resurrection/immortality thing is pretty fucked up, though at least the Doctor admits that he might have done the wrong thing (and he apparently wasn't sure that it would make the Viking girl immortal). Though why in God's name he thought it was a good idea to give her the power to do the same to someone else...

I mean, I know his reason. I just don't accept it.

Why not? The Doctor has said many times that being alone is not something anyone should strive for and if I recall, has even said that he hates it. I think that is one of the reasons he has companions because immortality and traveling the universe in a solitary state is heartbreaking. Allowing her to choose someone to spend an eternity with doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Depends on weather she gives the other person a choice in the matter. And weather she can be trusted to choose someone wisely. And how it might further mess up the time line.

[Enigma]

I didn't know giving her companion the choice to become immortal depended on the weather.

[The Romulan Republic]

Point is the Doctor gave some very dangerous and dubious power that he didn't feel comfortable using himself to a kid he barely knows who probably won't understand the full implications.

[SpottedKitty]

Point is the Doctor gave some very dangerous and dubious power that he didn't feel comfortable using himself to a kid he barely knows who probably won't understand the full implications.

I'll have to watch the repeat (at its new time of late Thursday night) to make sure, but I got the impression the Doctor himself didn't realise the full implications until just after he shut the TARDIS door. Maybe he finally listened to the little voice in his head nagging that he'd just accidentally created a Fixed Point?

[DaveJB]

He must have known what'd happen, given that he gave her the second repair kit right after bringing her back to life. He probably didn't think about the full implications until after he was in the TARDIS, but he certainly knew it was a possibility.

That said, he might have been under the assumption that given the time period, she'd eventually sustain an injury too severe for the repair kit to do anything about, with the second one being there just in case she didn't. Admittedly still a risky thing to do, but we've already seen that the Doctor can make some rash decisions when he goes all Time Lord Victorious.

[SpottedKitty]

Admittedly still a risky thing to do, but we've already seen that the Doctor can make some rash decisions when he goes all Time Lord Victorious.

<nod> And IIRC he even used some of the same turns of phrase from Waters Of Mars. At least this time he didn't start ranting.