Thanas presents: shit Homeland told me

[Flagg]

'Homeland' (aka MOOOOOOOOOOOSLEMS ARE EEEEEEEEEEVIIIL, EVEN THE AMERICAN PATRIOT ONES (WHO ARE ALL SLEEPER AGENTS!!!) is still on? That's sad.

[Napoleon the Clown]

I expect that the shitty writing wrt Sunni and Shia Muslims and what organization comes from where is intentional. Probably done that way to fit the propaganda narrative (of Israel and the US neocons) of demonizing Iran and Al-Qaeda is a household name, enough so that it is easily recognizable.

Or it's pandering to the kind of audience in the US who laps that bullshit up in order to get better ratings.

Not that I would expect a show named "Homeland" from the US, dealing with the War on Terror, to be anything but abject bullshit after what we have witnessed in the past 13 years.

From what's being said in here, it's jingoist nonsense at absolute best. Propaganda doesn't try to be accurate to reality, it's meant to dehumanize "the enemy" and rally the masses against them.

I can't say I'm surprised that two of the writers for 24 ended up working on this show.

[Guardsman Bass]

Most of the praise I've heard for the show was for its first season. After that, it sounds like it degenerated into garbage right-wing national security thriller nonsense (unsurprising from the writers for 24).

There are some shows where you really need to change up the cast between seasons. Open-ended thriller series have a tendency otherwise to turn into ever-escalating conspiratorial nonsense in order to keep trying to re-capture the tension from earlier seasons.

[Adam Reynolds]

Most of the praise I've heard for the show was for its first season. After that, it sounds like it degenerated into garbage right-wing national security thriller nonsense (unsurprising from the writers for 24).

There are some shows where you really need to change up the cast between seasons. Open-ended thriller series have a tendency otherwise to turn into ever-escalating conspiratorial nonsense in order to keep trying to re-capture the tension from earlier seasons.

That really is the issue from a writing perspective. The lack of a difference between Shia/Sunni is related to this and really only came into play with season 3. In order to keep the characters from the first season relevant, they were forced to reuse them in ways that don't make any sense. Damien Lewis' character Brody was a key part of this. He was connected to Al-Qaeda(Sunni) while they were wanting to move the action to Iran(Shia) for season 3.

Part of the problem with Homeland in particular is that it is attempting to remain relevant to what is currently going on in the Middle East. Season 3 was all about the Iran Deal, Season 4 anticipated the problem being Pakistan-Afghansitan and failed to recognize the rise of ISIS.

Even though it was far less "realistic" and far more episodic(thus more self contained) Burn Notice had the same problem. Every time that Michael found the person that burned him, he would always find another link in the chain. It got old after the second or third time this happened.

In book form this was also true with Tom Clancy. His earlier books were generally much better regarded than his later ones. Except by K. A. Pital who pointed out that his portrayal of communism in The Hunt for Red October made no sense.

In terms of thriller series, I wish more of them would end after the first one or two seasons instead of dragging out the story. One that I will give credit to, despite my criticisms of the premise in the other thread, is Person of Interest. It largely wrapped up the behind the scenes conspiracy story in the first two seasons. Leaving the 3-5 seasons for an entirely new problem: Spoiler

that of a rival AI.

[Dread Not]

Most of the praise I've heard for the show was for its first season. After that, it sounds like it degenerated into garbage right-wing national security thriller nonsense (unsurprising from the writers for 24).

There are some shows where you really need to change up the cast between seasons. Open-ended thriller series have a tendency otherwise to turn into ever-escalating conspiratorial nonsense in order to keep trying to re-capture the tension from earlier seasons.

That really is the issue from a writing perspective. The lack of a difference between Shia/Sunni is related to this and really only came into play with season 3. In order to keep the characters from the first season relevant, they were forced to reuse them in ways that don't make any sense. Damien Lewis' character Brody was a key part of this. He was connected to Al-Qaeda(Sunni) while they were wanting to move the action to Iran(Shia) for season 3.

The issues with the first vs subsequent seasons don't stop there though. The writers seem completely oblivious to the elements that made the first season compelling, or completely incapable of coming up with new ones. I found the first season entertaining for its portrayal of a broken, traumatized man trying to readjust to society. I liked the mystery as to whether Brody had truly been turned. I liked how Carrie's mental state was continually questioned and it was unclear whether she was on the right track or making everything worse.

Pretty much none of that is present in season 2. Brody's PTSD is rarely ever addressed again, we have a clear picture of his motivations, and Carrie's treatment at the end of season 1 appears to be largely successful. Any new mysteries introduced feel detached from the main characters, and it all just gets worse from there. I'd say the writers were also morons to portray the romance between the two leads as anything worth the audience's investment. In the first season you could say it was simply a game of manipulation that leads to genuine feelings, but pursuing them would obviously be a disaster. In the second season it felt like the writers expected the audience to care whether they ended up together. I called it quits in the middle of the third season when everything I had ever enjoyed about the series was far gone, and the Islamophobia and propaganda were becoming more blatant.

Overall, color me unsurprised that such inept writers are increasingly unconcerned with accurate, nuanced portrayals of Islamic terrorism.

[Adam Reynolds]

The issues with the first vs subsequent seasons don't stop there though. The writers seem completely oblivious to the elements that made the first season compelling, or completely incapable of coming up with new ones. I found the first season entertaining for its portrayal of a broken, traumatized man trying to readjust to society. I liked the mystery as to whether Brody had truly been turned. I liked how Carrie's mental state was continually questioned and it was unclear whether she was on the right track or making everything worse.

Agreed. What made it interesting was that we in a sense were seeing things from two narrators that were both somewhat unreliable. Not that what we saw was inaccurate, but that it was done in a way that we couldn't trust the mental states of our two main characters.

Though really it fell apart with the ending of the first season. It ended with Carrie and the intelligence community accomplishing nothing. They were unable to prove anything in any direction. Brody was only stopped by his daughter. This was made worse by the beginning of season two allowing them to find the evidence as a fluke. Though I'm not sure what would have actually been a good ending.

[Thanas]

So episode 3:

4 minutes in and the female lead flat out said torture made the words of the tortured person more truthful.
6 minutes in and the second guy at the CIA said to the face of a German philantrophist "Wouldn't be the first time you guys sided with the ones on the wrong side of history". I mean, wtf? I thought the CIA was at least smarter than that.

But the following exchange is amazing in its propaganda:
CIA guy: *Accuses the German guy of secretly sponsoring terrorists through giving money to muslim charities, for muslim charities = terrorism funding*
german guy: *says they account for everything*
CIA: Do you consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization?
German: While I don't like violence, one must distinguish between terrorism and resisting occupation.
CIA guy: Do you consider firing rocks at civilian targets a legitimate strategy?

I mean, WOW. And very subtle threat of terrorism charges to boot, asshole


Shit Homeland also told me:
- Isreal doesn't want to get rid of Assad....right.
- Russian diplomats spent a lot of time in Berlin brothels (ok that could be true)
- the USA is secretly planning to replace Assad.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Would it be amiss to say that the Sesame Street parody has better writing than the show it's spoofing? Alternately, how about The Simpsons' own take on this show?

[Adam Reynolds]

CIA guy: Do you consider firing rocks at civilian targets a legitimate strategy?

As opposed to blowing them up with drones? Or buldozing their houses? When 90% of drone targets miss, that is "collateral damage."

- the USA is secretly planning to replace Assad.

How is that a secret? The US has been opposed to his government for years.

[Napoleon the Clown]

CIA guy: Do you consider firing rocks at civilian targets a legitimate strategy?

As opposed to blowing them up with drones? Or buldozing their houses? When 90% of drone targets miss, that is "collateral damage."

- the USA is secretly planning to replace Assad.

How is that a secret? The US has been opposed to his government for years.

That's why he's mocking it. The US isn't exactly good at hiding that we have a habit of propping up dictators that we think will do our bidding. (And then don't.)

[Metahive]

CIA guy: Do you consider firing rocks at civilian targets a legitimate strategy?

"Firing rocks", do they strap rockets to boulders? The Hisbollah has suddenly become a lot more awesome somehow.

In case they meant "firing rockets", I can only say, well, both the US and Israel consider it legitmate and do so regularly, so this attempted gotcha of Mr. CIA somehow falls amazingly flat. Or are the writers of the show under the impression that the people at large still believe that neither of them targets civilians in their bombings? Yeah, right.

[Captain Seafort]

- Isreal doesn't want to get rid of Assad....right.

What wrong with that? I can see them preferring him to stay in charge as a known quantity rather than ISIS or worse.

[K. A. Pital]

Russian diplomats in Berlin brothels? Hahaha, haha. Heh.

Apparently they are unaware of the pay levels for diplomatic workers in Russian embassies and consulates.

[Thanas]

Well considering the guy is obviously corrupt (because Russian, you know)....

[Thanas]

Episode 5:

- wouldn't be Homeland without bringing the Nazis up within the first scene of the episode...
- ...and drawing a connection between the current enemies of Israel and the Nazis...
- Israeli ambassador to Germany is most easily the loathsome character of the week. "If Arabs are killing arabs they are not firing rockets at Israel" (about Syrian civil war) and in the next sentence "you really think any of those murderers want peace?" Pot, meet kettle. He thinks you're black.
- Hey, the Russian diplomat from last episode? Well, the Russians apparently like to kill worthy informants.
- Nothing like a CIA guy to tell the Syrian general condescendingly "Your people have suffered so much already", but sure, if you coup Assad, we will support you with troops. RIGHTO.
- I am pretty sure the bad people at this point are evil russians who have infiltrated the CIA.

One neat thing:
The producers are clearly a fan of quality German TV, for they reuse locations from "Im Angesicht des Verbrechens" (watch it if you speak German/Russian, it is great) and now the head Russian is played by the an actor who looks exactly like the Russian mafia boss in that one.

[Thanas]

BTW:

http://imgur.com/a/7wWDn

First one: actual street in Lebanon
Second: Street as depicted in Homeland

[salm]

One neat thing:
The producers are clearly a fan of quality German TV, for they reuse locations from "Im Angesicht des Verbrechens" (watch it if you speak German/Russian, it is great) and now the head Russian is played by the an actor who looks exactly like the Russian mafia boss in that one.

Homeland was produced by Studio Babelsberg. "Im Angesicht des Verbrechens" by a company called Typhoon AG which went bankrupt. Perhaps a bunch of people from Typhoon now work at Bablesberg.

[Adam Reynolds]

Episode 5:

- wouldn't be Homeland without bringing the Nazis up within the first scene of the episode...
- ...and drawing a connection between the current enemies of Israel and the Nazis...

It is sad that Netanyahu did exactly that in reality, going so far to claim that Arabs convinced Hitler to commit the holocaust.

- I am pretty sure the bad people at this point are evil russians who have infiltrated the CIA.

That has largely been a problem since the first season of the show. At various points they always seemed to be leaking information to Al Qaeda in some fashion and it was never really addressed who was responsible or how it occurred.

[Thanas]

So apparently Germany has tons of terrorist prisoners from Syria they just have to release now if the illegally obtained information would get out.
Said terrorists of course enjoy overwhelming support in immigrant muslim communities in Germany.
And they live in shithole appartments who are breaking dozens of German fire codes just by the look of them.
...and of course the nice Muslim doctor who saves strangers just has to be associated with the terrorists.

[Thanas]

An update - just caught up with the latest episode and dear god it got only shittier.

Now do you know that one cannot win an argument about the "war on terror" because clearly all that law-breaking is so very necessary.
Oh and btw Germany should never ever take any muslims in because they will always betray you in the end.

Oh and did you know that Russia was plotting with ISIS to stage a terrorist attack on Berlin?
Yep, Russia is in bed with ISIS. WAKE UP SHEEPLE.

[Adam Reynolds]

Oh and did you know that Russia was plotting with ISIS to stage a terrorist attack on Berlin?
Yep, Russia is in bed with ISIS. WAKE UP SHEEPLE.

The same group they are bombing in Syria? That makes sense. I almost wonder if shows like this are actively bad in that they create the appearance of a threat that doesn't exist. While terrorism is a real threat, they are not masterminds any more than a US Army General is. I would suspect a dozen other "Allied" nations of siding with ISIS before Russia.

For a show that started with a genuinely interesting premise*, and one that was rather questioning of the US War on Terror at that**, it is sad to see how far they have fallen.

* That of the question about whether or not Brody was a terrorist or just crazy. Damien Lewis did an excellent job with that characterization. As did Clarie Danes with the issue of whether Carrie was actually right about him being a terrorist or also just crazy. It turned out all four were true.

** Damien Lewis' character joined the terrorist cause when a young boy he had become attached to was killed in a drone strike.

[Thanas]

New episode:
- You know what the right thing to do with regards to intelligence? Sweep everything under the rug.
- Also, the BND (German intelligence) can threaten people with deportation at will, even if they will be tortured at their country of origin. Which of course is complete bullshit with regards to German Asylum law but hey, when has the show ever cared about presenting a realistic image?
- so the CIA can just insert a special ops team headed by the deputy director of the CIA into Russia and kill an agent with a fake roadblock. Righto.

[Tribble]

I only saw one episode of this, and that was more than enough.

So, was the women agent who shot the black agent who was supposedly her partner a Russian in disguise? Or did she honestly believe that "shoot your own partner in the head" is an acceptable interrogation tactic? Given the way people have been talking about the show I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was the ladder.

Oh, I also liked the throwaway line in that episode where even the atheists in the Middle East are evilz.

[Thanas]

Russian double-agent.

Though honestly, apparently the show thinks that when somebody falls to death from a window 5 stories high from the intelligence agency then "he was a terrorist" means that nobody will ever question the circumstances of that death. Especially not the German populace. Nope. Because when somebody is arrested by the BND and then just happens to fall to his death from their building that will never raise any eyebrows ever once people are told the guy was a terrorist.

[Tribble]

Russian double-agent.

Though honestly, apparently the show thinks that when somebody falls to death from a window 5 stories high from the intelligence agency then "he was a terrorist" means that nobody will ever question the circumstances of that death. Especially not the German populace. Nope. Because when somebody is arrested by the BND and then just happens to fall to his death from their building that will never raise any eyebrows ever once people are told the guy was a terrorist.

Well ya, 'Murica told them he was a terrorist, what more did they need?

Or how about when the guys started getting ropes and whatnot to close the doors in that station? One would think that kind of thing might be noticed and stopped by regular people, let alone security. But no, apparently people will just blankly stare and do nothing when random people try to shut them into a station. Nothing suspicious about that at all, no sir!

Hell, if someone tried that in Toronto during rush hour they would be promptly trampled to death- we don't take kindly to people who try to slow down our commute.