Chem factory found

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-23 10:44pm

Supposedly they found a chemical weapons factory in an najaf or al kuat or something like that according to MSNBC. chemicals were there apparently.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-23 10:55pm

US troops have found a chemical factory in a country that ran its economy on petrochemicals. Even the Pentagon is saying that it's way to soon to leap to the conclusion that they've found a chemical weapons plant.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-23 10:58pm

Enlightenment wrote:US troops have found a chemical factory in a country that ran its economy on petrochemicals. Even the Pentagon is saying that it's way to soon to leap to the conclusion that they've found a chemical weapons plant.

No but it is supposedly camoflauged and garrisoned heavily. I'm guessing they're making something they shouldn't be.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-23 11:01pm

Stormbringer wrote:No but it is supposedly camoflauged and garrisoned heavily. I'm guessing they're making something they shouldn't be.

Very likely but let's not jump the gun here.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-23 11:02pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:No but it is supposedly camoflauged and garrisoned heavily. I'm guessing they're making something they shouldn't be.
Very likely but let's not jump the gun here.

Yes, they were probably making baby milk or fertilizer, which would explain the need for heavy concealment.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-03-23 11:04pm

Yeah, those petro factories all have a general and troops attached to them.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-23 11:05pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:No but it is supposedly camoflauged and garrisoned heavily. I'm guessing they're making something they shouldn't be.
Very likely but let's not jump the gun here.

Yeah. Because we all know that the Iraq have a such a need theft problem that they have conceal and garrison their fertilizer factories.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-23 11:09pm

Stravo wrote:Yeah, those petro factories all have a general and troops attached to them.

Keep in mind this is a part of Iraq where the local population tried to rebel... Local security might well be an issue.

Chances are they have found a chemical weapons plant but lets wait for the facts to come in before pulling a Darkstar and summarily declaring victory.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-23 11:12pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Stravo wrote:Yeah, those petro factories all have a general and troops attached to them.
Keep in mind this is a part of Iraq where the local population tried to rebel... Local security might well be an issue.

Chances are they have found a chemical weapons plant but lets wait for the facts to come in before pulling a Darkstar and summarily declaring victory.

As opposed to you jumping to the conclusion that a camoflouged, garrisoned factory is safe and harmless?

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-23 11:13pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Enlightenment wrote:
Stravo wrote:Yeah, those petro factories all have a general and troops attached to them.
Keep in mind this is a part of Iraq where the local population tried to rebel... Local security might well be an issue.

Chances are they have found a chemical weapons plant but lets wait for the facts to come in before pulling a Darkstar and summarily declaring victory.
As opposed to you jumping to the conclusion that a camoflouged, garrisoned factory is safe and harmless?

To be fair, I haven't seen him say it wasn't a chemical agent factory.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-23 11:13pm

The garrison doesn't really tell us anything. It could just be an outgrowth of air defenses installed n the 80's to guard against Iran, which bombed and destroyed a good part of Iraq's oil industry in that area.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-23 11:20pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Enlightenment wrote: Chances are they have found a chemical weapons plant but lets wait for the facts to come in before pulling a Darkstar and summarily declaring victory.
As opposed to you jumping to the conclusion that a camoflouged, garrisoned factory is safe and harmless?

Cast your eyes a little higher up the screen to the portion of my post that you quoted. I'll repeat it for you:

Chances are they have found a chemical weapons plant but lets wait for the facts to come in before pulling a Darkstar and summarily declaring victory.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-23 11:22pm

ok, right, a plant which is camouflaged specifically to hide from satellite detection is not something major.. uh huh.. and remind me again when Iran and Iraqi rebels put satellites into orbit..

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-23 11:29pm

kojikun wrote:ok, right, a plant which is camouflaged specifically to hide from satellite detection is not something major.. uh huh.. and remind me again when Iran and Iraqi rebels put satellites into orbit..

Do you have a reputable source (sorry, Faux doesn't count) that says the facility was specifically camo'ed against satellites rather than, for instance, recon aircraft?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-23 11:33pm

watch the news. every news agency is reporting it.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-23 11:55pm

Guys, Enlightenment is right here, let's not jump to conclusions without much evidence (from FNC or otherwise).

That said, Reuters has an article that also says it was camouflaged (and cites FNC, ABC and the Jerusalem Post).

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-03-24 12:06am

A quick list of why this is suspicious, for those just joining.

1. Camoflaged from air recon.
2. Garrisoned, complete with military barracks in the facility.
3. Electrified fence.
4. Booby traps.

While not concrete, it's certainly enough to make one leery.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-24 12:08am

phongn wrote:That said, Reuters has an article that also says it was camouflaged (and cites FNC, ABC and the Jerusalem Post).

Yeah. I know it's painted in camo but I'm looking for a source that it was specifically camoed against satellites. Camo against ground forces and recon aircraft is somewhat excusable given the location of the suspected plant but obscuring satellite observation is a little harder to explain away.

And again, I repeat: from the evidence provided so far, this probably is a chemical weapons plant.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-24 12:21am

FNC isn't even reporting satellite camoflauge at the moment - just against aerial coverage.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-24 12:26am

What works against aircraft will work fairly well against satellites. Better in some cases, since radar recon systems work better at an angle rather then from directly or nearly directly above, and aerial photography has higher resolutions. And of course against a satellite you only need to hid from overheads, the sides can be ignored to an extent.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-25 07:27pm

Update:

US finds nothing at alledged CW plant.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ical_plant

I told you that caution was in order...

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-25 07:46pm

well obviously, theyve already shipped the dren out to the troops

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-25 07:53pm

kojikun wrote:well obviously, theyve already shipped the dren out to the troops

It's an alledged plant, not a depot...

From the article:

WASHINGTON - U.S. military investigators have found no evidence that chemical weapons have been made in recent years at a suspect chemical plant secured by U.S. troops in southern Iraq (news - web sites), a senior defense official said Tuesday.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-25 07:55pm

Enlightenment wrote:Update:

US finds nothing at alledged CW plant.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ical_plant

I told you that caution was in order...

Indications then were that the plant had not been used for banned weapons activities since 1998, the official said.

No, we found that they hadn't been using it since 1998. That's still making weapons. And the plant was still there as well. If he really intended to give up the program that building wouldn't be there and garrisoned and defended.