Three Galactic Empires

[Zor]

Of these three Galactic Empires which one would you rather have modern Earth be integrated into?

Zor

[Crazedwraith]

How about you provide some actual information about them? The third one is especially obscure.

[Welf]

The Galactic empire of the Goldenbaum dynasty is from the anime Legend of the Galactic Heroes. There is no dub available for the US as far as I know, but you can see a fan sub here. It's pretty good, but 110 episodes will take a bit to catch up. I just did recently.

Seems pretty easy choice of the Asimov's Trantor empire? As far as I remember they don't do genocide or any ethnic cleansing, so seems most okayish.

[Crazedwraith]

Plus we'd get revered as the lost homeworld of legend by Trantor, so there's that.

[Q99]

Trantor seems like an easy choice.


Palpatine's Empire is horrible.

The Galactic Empire, Goldenbaum Dynasty, is imperialist space germany. Not as horrible, but still. Maybe someone more familiar could make arguments for it, one way or another.

Trantor Empire... well, the big problem is it'll eventually fall, but for most of it's lifespan it's prosperous and a good place to live.

[Simon_Jester]

Plus we'd get revered as the lost homeworld of legend by Trantor, so there's that.

No, we'd get ignored because the pettifogging scholar-caste that passes for 'scientists' and 'historians' in the latter days of the Trantorian Empire would not believe we were the homeworld of humanity, even with fossil evidence to prove it. They are basically... all of the stupid.

[Seldon must have had a hard time picking the people he sent out to found the Foundation... or he would probably have sent more of them. Probably.]

However, Palpatine's empire is brutal and oppressive on par with fascism. This is a fascism that murders planets as a punitive measure.

The Goldenbaum Dynasty is also oppressive, enacts vicious, murderous eugenics measures. Most of its worlds are pastoral serfdoms ruled by an aristocracy that ranges from feckless and corrupt down to bloodyminded.

There's a REASON the Free Planets Alliance exists... and a reason that the FPA, despite originally consisting entirely of less than two hundred thousand rebels and defectors from Goldenbaum's Empire, grew to a population and industrial power comparable to the Empire. Neither of those two facts says anything good about living conditions in the Empire.

By contrast, the Trantorian Empire generally refrained from major brutality so far as I know, and lacked the resources to engage in effective brutality anyway in its declining days.

[Q99]

[
The Goldenbaum Dynasty is also oppressive, enacts vicious, murderous eugenics measures. Most of its worlds are pastoral serfdoms ruled by an aristocracy that ranges from feckless and corrupt down to bloodyminded.

Ok, that's pretty bad

By contrast, the Trantorian Empire generally refrained from major brutality so far as I know, and lacked the resources to engage in effective brutality anyway in its declining days.

Heck, it says a lot that once it fell, the Foundation's purpose was to, basically, make a new one. Split up and independent wasn't considered better, while the other two had big rebellions.

[Tribble]

The Trantorian Empire was far from perfect, but at least it wasn't overtly evil like Palpatine's Empire. And the Goldenbaum Dynasty doesn't sound very appealing to me.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Well if you can CHOOSE....
By the end of the series, The Goldenbaum Dynasty had been deeply changed...

Most of the "Nobles" who were largely responsible for much of the corruption and more Draconian policies, had been either killed or kicked out of power by Goldenbaum.

The source of much of the conflict and vicious measures of the older Empire were due in large part to the war which had FINALLY ended once and for all.

Goldenbaum had "freed" a large amount of the Serfs, and stated that those worlds of the FPA would remain "free" despite now being a part of his Empire.

The terrorist group (ironically known as 'Terrarists) had been utterly destroyed (they had been responsible for the assassination of several "good guys" and much trout;le)

Basically, by the end of series you get the impression that those factors that started the war, (corruption, incompetent leaders, war for the sake of war) had largely been done away with.

[NecronLord]

A state that has had to abolish Serfdom and issue promises to factions it has conquered that it won't institute it doesn't really compare to Trantor in its culture.

[Purple]

A question. In the old SW cannon how well off could you become if you went full collaborator with the Empire, maybe joined the intelligence service as a volunteer or something?

[Gaidin]

A question. In the old SW cannon how well off could you become if you went full collaborator with the Empire, maybe joined the intelligence service as a volunteer or something?

Are we actually collaborators with either side or are we just people seeking a living? I mean seriously...anybody willing to take a guess at the ratio of people that had a clearance to people that didn't for the GALAXY?

[Purple]

A question. In the old SW cannon how well off could you become if you went full collaborator with the Empire, maybe joined the intelligence service as a volunteer or something?

Are we actually collaborators with either side or are we just people seeking a living? I mean seriously...anybody willing to take a guess at the ratio of people that had a clearance to people that didn't for the GALAXY?

Actually collaborating. As in say the Galactic Empire conquers your planet and you immediately enlist in their intelligence service or something and become a model loyalist. I am basically trying to ascertain how someone who embraces the new regime with open arms would fare. I imagine the old EU has to have had at least one example.

[Gaidin]

Actually collaborating. As in say the Galactic Empire conquers your planet and you immediately enlist in their intelligence service or something and become a model loyalist. I am basically trying to ascertain how someone who embraces the new regime with open arms would fare. I imagine the old EU has to have had at least one example.

I uhh...good luck. We're mostly humans on the record as against the Empire. If you think you can get a clearance I think you have some stars to wish upon. I'll find a job as an engineer somewhere. Make a pretty good living. Actually won't be that bad, even on Coruscant.

[Batman]

Palpatine's empire, all the way. Because that means 'I' get a chance to be the one who blows up the Death Star.

Other than that, definitely Trantor.

[bilateralrope]

A question. In the old SW cannon how well off could you become if you went full collaborator with the Empire, maybe joined the intelligence service as a volunteer or something?

You might rise far enough in rank that you risk Vader noticing any of your failures.

[Simon_Jester]

Well if you can CHOOSE....

By the end of the series, The Goldenbaum Dynasty had been deeply changed...

By the end of the series the Goldenbaum dynasty had ceased to exist; von Musel had seized control of the state in his own name and founded his own dynasty.

A question. In the old SW cannon how well off could you become if you went full collaborator with the Empire, maybe joined the intelligence service as a volunteer or something?

No better off than you would be in service to the Goldenbaums or to Trantor.

[Purple]

No better off than you would be in service to the Goldenbaums or to Trantor.

At what speed though? I might get ahead faster and better in an empire that's racist against everyone else than I would in an egalitarian one. And being an adult white male I fit ideally into the choice demographic of their, well everyone.

[NecronLord]

No better off than you would be in service to the Goldenbaums or to Trantor.

At what speed though? I might get ahead faster and better in an empire that's racist against everyone else than I would in an egalitarian one. And being an adult white male I fit ideally into the choice demographic of their, well everyone.

You're also a commoner. That's a low bar to clear in Trantor, from what we know, compared to the Galactic Empire, which has heavily entrenched discrimination against people not from the Core Worlds, and obviously compared to the Goldenbaums, who are pants-on-head neofeudalists.

[Purple]

No better off than you would be in service to the Goldenbaums or to Trantor.

At what speed though? I might get ahead faster and better in an empire that's racist against everyone else than I would in an egalitarian one. And being an adult white male I fit ideally into the choice demographic of their, well everyone.

You're also a commoner. That's a low bar to clear in Trantor, from what we know, compared to the Galactic Empire, which has heavily entrenched discrimination against people not from the Core Worlds, and obviously compared to the Goldenbaums, who are pants-on-head neofeudalists.

The difference being that, and I might be wrong here Trantor would be more of a meritocracy. And there is no way anyone from earth is going to compete there. We simply do not have the education, knowledge or anything. If you pluck a guy from the stone age and put him in the most egalitarian society ever he still won't be able to succeed. The GA on the other hand offers, or at least should offer a way of advancement where only dedication is required.

[NecronLord]

And then you fail to catch the Millennium falcon or something, and you get excecuted. In canon (Movies, Rebels) Star Wars, a large percentage of Imperial officers and even a planetary minister, have been killed by their superiors, usually without any disloyalty on their part. If you're suggesting you're not going to be competent in the 1st Galactic Empire, then Commandant Aresko is an example of what tends to happen to you.

Also, wasn't it said in Foundation somewhere that the Galactic Empire expanded by enticing planets into membership, rather than y'know, conquest? So they're least likely to integrate earth into their society by bombing it from orbit.

[NecronLord]

Also, Asimov wrote an essay on personal teaching machines, does anyone know if the Galactic Empire had those? If so the costs of a Trantorian education are probably very low compared to the Coruscant one.

[Purple]

And then you fail to catch the Millennium falcon or something, and you get excecuted. In canon (Movies, Rebels) Star Wars, a large percentage of Imperial officers and even a planetary minister, have been killed by their superiors, usually without any disloyalty on their part. If you're suggesting you're not going to be competent in the 1st Galactic Empire, then Commandant Aresko is an example of what tends to happen to you.

It's a different type of competence, that's what I am saying. Being a good commander or a dedicated soldier or better yet a loyal informant (my personal preference) does require skills. But it's not the kind of skills you need a lifetime of living in a society thousands of years ahead of your own technologically to pick up. A person from earth would be completely at a loss when faced with the things that people from any of those settings take for granted. Like imagine trying to become something as simple as a taxi driver. "What do you mean you can't fly a hovercar?! My 13 year old son can do it! Get of my office!" Thus we would be completely lost at performing any job that isn't already performed by robots or some similar form of automation for manual labor leaving the only other alternative a lifetime in the low ranks of the military or as an informant to the regime when it takes over earth.

[NecronLord]

Another reason to go for Trantor. They have robots and technology far beyond ours, but we can sell them all kinds of personal computing concepts and devices they don't have. And as they aren't likely to bomb us to take them, they'll pay.

[Purple]

And how does that effect the vast majority of us who don't own patent rights to these things?