Doctor Who 9x07 - The Zygon Invasion (Spoilers)

[Bernkastel]

So, here's the usual episode discussion thread. So, what's everyone's thoughts on this one?

[dragon]

man those unit soldiers were stupid. They knew what the enemy could do yet they followed them into the church anyways. Then the ones underground just stood there when the Zygons showed up instead of taking cover and preparing to open fire.

This is not counting the whole lets bring in 20 million shape changers and let them live among us. As if we didn't know that was going to bite us in the ass

[Broomstick]

This had the feel of one of the older serials to me, with the multi-cliffhanger ending.

This whole series it hasn't until I've seen the second half of the two-parter that I felt I could really judge the story.

[Iroscato]

man those unit soldiers were stupid. They knew what the enemy could do yet they followed them into the church anyways. Then the ones underground just stood there when the Zygons showed up instead of taking cover and preparing to open fire.

This is not counting the whole lets bring in 20 million shape changers and let them live among us. As if we didn't know that was going to bite us in the ass

I know right? That was the dumbest fucking thing I've seen on TV for a while. A group of highly trained UNIT soldiers lower their weapons and traipse into a screamingly obvious trap because...one of them looks like one of their mummies. You have got to be shitting me.

Rest of the episode was pretty good, but that was remarkably stupid writing.

[NecronLord]

1/5 UNIT are too dumb to live.

[DaveJB]

If nothing else, I'm glad they at least kept it to Clara being a Zygon duplicate during the course of this particular episode, rather than revealing that she's been a duplicate throughout the season so far (or, god forbid, since Day of the Doctor).

[Bedlam]

Yep, the UNIT guys are dumb, however, it does seem to be a sign that the Zygon's have some limited telepathic ability as they seem to always know who to appear as to target each person, unless they have really amazing intelligence from somewhere they shouldn't know the precise soldiers who will be flying the drone or lead the assault. It didn't seem good enough to pluck out the answer to simple questions but at least they know the face of your nearest and dearest. If you wanted to really push it you could give that as a reason for some of the stupidity, they can broadcast something that makes the disguise more likely to fool you, not only do they look like your mother, they feel like her at a gut level.

So far it looks like a, rather unsubtle, commentary on the recent refugee issues. However, what getting me is that they don't seem to have done anything to make the Zygons sympathetic. So far they've killed and kidnapped hundreds or maybe thousands of humans apparently just because they're evil. The closest thing to something to explain their actions in the duplicate sheriff in Truth or Consequences who mentions a young Zygon being seen as a monster, if that child had been attacked or killed but humans I could see that lead to a spiralling problem. I would have expected a peaceful Zygon to have made an appearance by now, unless that's Osgoods role, the only other 'good' zygons's were seen were the little girl leaders who did nothing about the situation before they were kidnapped and executed. Maybe it'll come up in the second half but that seems a bit late.

It's fairly obvious the any Zygon nerve gas is going to come up. 'There should have been another way' part two?

[The Romulan Republic]

I'll withhold judgement until I've seen the story in question, but based on your description and other stuff I've seen, it sounds like they made a piece of virulent anti-refugee propaganda which portrays refugees as typically murderous invaders and monsters. And it sounds like they did so at the expense of and in spite of Day of the Doctor, one of the finest episodes the series has ever produced and certainly the high point of Moffat's leadership, by invalidating both the admittedly slight humanization of the Zygons via Osgood and the Doctor's success in negotiating a truce.

As I have never known Doctor Who to be particularly conservative or xenophobic, I have to wonder if the British Government or BBC bosses leaned on them, as ridiculous as that sounds. God knows Pig Fucker Cameron's regime has been dragging its feet on the refugee issue. Or maybe it was just some idiot's clueless attempt to write a politically relevant episode.

If my fears are correct, I may, regretfully, feel obligated to boycott Doctor Who until such time as Steven Moffat is no longer head writer. And to write the BBC and tell them so and why.

[Dartzap]

Before you start writing letters to the Telegraph from Tunbridge Wells, you might want to actually want to watch the episode - it's nothing so sinister as that - it's a somewhat lazy opposite of your fear, infact.

[NecronLord]

Actually I think it's a melange of race issues. I was reminded of recent US race riots by the notion that the Zygons are upset about the murder of one of their children in the United States of America.

[Iroscato]

I'll withhold judgement until I've seen the story in question, but based on your description and other stuff I've seen, it sounds like they made a piece of virulent anti-refugee propaganda which portrays refugees as typically murderous invaders and monsters. And it sounds like they did so at the expense of and in spite of Day of the Doctor, one of the finest episodes the series has ever produced and certainly the high point of Moffat's leadership, by invalidating both the admittedly slight humanization of the Zygons via Osgood and the Doctor's success in negotiating a truce.

As I have never known Doctor Who to be particularly conservative or xenophobic, I have to wonder if the British Government or BBC bosses leaned on them, as ridiculous as that sounds. God knows Pig Fucker Cameron's regime has been dragging its feet on the refugee issue. Or maybe it was just some idiot's clueless attempt to write a politically relevant episode.

If my fears are correct, I may, regretfully, feel obligated to boycott Doctor Who until such time as Steven Moffat is no longer head writer. And to write the BBC and tell them so and why.

It's more layered than that, it's just...heavy-handed. Ease up on the conclusion-jumping there, Sparky.

[The Romulan Republic]

I explicitly said that I had not reached any conclusions, not having seen the episode. I have my suspicions, however, and I wanted to make clear how I would react if those suspicions were confirmed.

I'll hope for the best and prepare for the worst, as usual.

Edit: Regardless, I loath heavy handed commentary. So I'm not thrilled about that.

[madd0ct0r]

Refugees? Not exactly. The whole episodic was a subtle as a sledgehammer look at radicalisation amongst British Muslims.
A sizeable percentage of the UK population
Radicalisation of an elment of the young
British governments blanket suspicions and willingness to bomb poorly defined training camps. Even using an American drone operator!
The litt girl elders stating 'they are our children we'll deal with it' (and failing)
The bombing of the camp was noted by the doctor as a trap- it'll radicalise the rest of the zylons.

And then in case we hadn't picked up the implied critique: the repeated reference to z-52 a poison gas that's totally not zyklon b, as used at Auschwitz. The sign with "no British, no dogs" in the American town, is totally not the "no blacks, no Irish,no dogs" signs you used to see in the UK. The mistreatment and murders of a minority in the American town didn't result in bloody conflict at all.

[The Romulan Republic]

That actually sounds more balanced, albeit rather blunt, as Chimaera suggested.

I mean, I like my political commentary to be subtle, not blunt as a club to the head.

[FaxModem1]

Anyone else notice that the Zygon flags seem to mimic the ISIS flag at all?

EDIT: And unless we see a lot more in part 2, the only non-murderous Zygons we've seen have been Osgood and the twins/Leadership Elders.

[Parallax]

For a world invasion, the story of it sure was slow and based on idiocy.
Let's face it, the Doctors plan was never going to last long - and we all knew it was a stop gap solution at best.

And you're all right - UNIT acted like goddam idiots from start to finish. Alistair would be facepalming if he were still in charge. He'd be far more doing the ol' 'five rounds rapid' routine and probably punching old soldiers that disobeyed commands instead of ineffectually shouting some more.

Political themes are great in Who, even heavy handed stories such as the Green Death can work. But I don't think they could have been more heavy handed if they had tried.

[Starglider]

The total incompetence of UNIT just blew away any suspension of disbelief. It was completely unnecessary; instead of utterly useless UNIT and minimally competent zygons, we could have had competent UNIT and more competent zygons. For example, the immitate relatives trick could have worked only to cause the soldiers to pause for a few seconds, just long enough to be flanked etc.

[mr friendly guy]

I think this was one of the better ones from Moffat.

So lets give my two cents

1. Allegory stuff

I gather there could potentially be an allegory to radicalisation of Muslims in the UK, but frankly this type of scenario is pretty much going to be universal and can be used in any alien / human trying to coexist situation. In fact I didn't see much of a Muslim allegory because I see this scenario as so universal, you could chuck in any two groups. In fact, given that someone in this thread thought of it was an allegory to Muslims in the UK while another though of it as allegory to Blacks in the US, would seem to support my idea that its universal.

A lot of old Who episodes made allegories to current events which would have been obvious to those in the times, but no so to us watching now, yet the stories hold up well. Because the themes are universal. It can occur anywhere and any time. Just watch the commentary in old Who DVDs. For example the Sunmakers, the Usurians (geez, ursury anyone) was based on a British politician involving economics at the time the show was screened in the 1970s.

So back to the allegory. I didn't see it as heavy handed at all.

********************************************************************************************************************

2. Stupid UNIT soldiers

Well people are stupid, so I am not going to blame a show which actually shows stupid people. If everyone was smart, I might consider that weird.

Now that being said, UNIT should have at least a modicrum of competence, and that behaviour from the UNIT soldiers was simply unacceptable. I can accept one or two dumb soldiers, but all of them except the female commander. Alistair would have just popped in a few rounds into them. In fact that's what happened in the classic Terror of the Zygons.

There is a plus side to this. Recently it seems that there has been a theme for humans to show the Doctor up, although the Doctor always prevails in the ened. This takes the humans down a peg or two.
*****************************************************************************************
3. Evil Clara.

What can I say. She looks more stunning as evil. That is all.

***********************************************************************************
4. Nice cliffhanger

Reminiscent of classic Who. Nuff said.

***********************************************************************************
5. Overall plot

I kind of liked it. How do you fight a bunch of shapeshifters? Nice that UNIT had already been compromised, although I suspected this was going to happen, because the villains are Zygons and you know, it makes sense to infiltrate the one organisation that has the resources to combat alien threats.

[Enigma]

Is Osgood here the real one of the Zygon version?

[Parallax]

Does it really matter?

[Eternal_Freedom]

They did cover that in the episode, Osgood refused to say, stating that she was human and Zygon in one.

[Hillary]

Yes - the word 'hybrid' reared its head again. That's the third time this season isn't it?

[madd0ct0r]

Anyone else notice that the Zygon flags seem to mimic the ISIS flag at all?

.

What the fuck are you smoking?

[FaxModem1]

Anyone else notice that the Zygon flags seem to mimic the ISIS flag at all?

.

What the fuck are you smoking?

The ISIS Flag

The Zygon Radicals flag

Black background, giant white symbol, with white lettering. At least, that's what I see.

[madd0ct0r]

red hand of ulster is a giant, hand symbol of a violent uprising, often with text around it.

The key point of the isis flag is it does not depict anything but text.