Star Trek vs Yuuzhan Vong

[TheDarkling]

Firing torps from warp isnt exactly a warp strafe as for phaser fire we have seen they can move at warp so if extreme movement is out just nip the vong as you go by.

Warp strafing wouldnt exactly be a great tactic because you dont get alot of time to hit your target while you are in weapons range and the enemy can track you well enough - warp strafing has no great advantages under normal battles but when its the only option you have it makes sense to use it.

[SirNitram]

Firing torps from warp isnt exactly a warp strafe as for phaser fire we have seen they can move at warp so if extreme movement is out just nip the vong as you go by.

Prove they are capable of this please, in the TNG era.

[Master of Ossus]

Prove that during the brief period of time a target is within range for a ship moving at warp SF targeting computers can accurately target the enemy ship. This is especially difficult because the YV have no power sources, no warp signature, and really no significant emissions that ST sensors tend to track.

[Mr Bean]

Besides Heat of Course, But I'm sure ST Sensors never bother with Lowly Infered when they could be scanning tacyon emissions!

[Master of Ossus]

Besides Heat of Course, But I'm sure ST Sensors never bother with Lowly Infered when they could be scanning tacyon emissions!

They do scan for heat, but I am not sure their targeting computers can.

[TheDarkling]

Why wouldnt torps at warp be able to hit a ship not at warp? its been seen during TOS and I cant think of a reason why it would suddenly not work came to provide one?

The Vong use Dovin Basal for both engines and shields, this fact has been used against Skips many times.

Prove the fed can rush the wormhole they punch it to warp 9.9 and make run for it, thats if they cant just use other weapons against the Vong.

DB cant maintain singularities for ever over the entire ship - they do get tied as has been stated many time thus if they cant react in time they are dead.

I have already stated that the FTL does give the Vong an adavtage to dodge federation ships but this means defending anything would be a problem for them.

The AQ could unite when its necessary and the NR did have many internal problems that were wasting fleet resources Ref Vector Prime.

The Feds sensors are capable of seeing bioships and they are used to such technology, they can also pick out a particular Species, Gender and age from orbit - not bad scanners in truth, the targetting scanners may not be able to do this (other bioships would indicate otherwise) so simply hitting the area the Vong are in may have do be done in a blind fire manner (SSD's aint small however).

[SirNitram]

Picard Maneuver proves that they cannot fire while at Warp during TNG and later.

[TheDarkling]

A ship that is heavily damaged not using a warf strafe proves it isnt possible? doing enough damage during a warf strafe may not have been possible and lets not forget the ship had to be left for dead it was that injured so Picard wasnt going to get another shot at it.

Going at FTL speeds he would over got off a shot maybe two then the Feregi would have come around and pounded on him using the Picard Maneuver got him several shots with all weapons.

A warf strafe wasnt the best thing at the time and it can easily be explained it not being used in light of the state of the ship.

After all that showing that it isnt absolute proof of warp strafing being impossible it still doesnt disprove that torps can be fired from warp onto non warp targets.

[Master of Ossus]

Large ships carry multiple Dovin Basals, and these can split their attention and do different things at once (they can both maneuver and shield simultaneously, though at reduced rates). Furhter, Dovin Basals have no method of moving a ship into the alternate dimension of hyperspace. Clearly there is something else going on, here.

A collision at warp 9.9 against a coralskipper would utterly destroy a Federation ship. With multiple ships moving at once, collision risks increase exponentially. Also remember that you must then prove that the opening waves of the YV would not be sufficient to overrun the AQ. Also remember that you are assuming that the Federation would be able to locate the wormhole before large numbers of YV arrived. And by large, I mean large in ST terms and not SW terms.

I know that DB's cannot single handedly shield an entire ship. Why would that matter?

Why would the YV need to defend planets or other strategic assets? Remember that they are trying to conquer the AQ, and once they have begun "Vong-forming" a planet, it would take SF considerable time to remove that, even if they were able to figure out how to. Further, they already have enough ships and equipment with them in the first few waves to destroy the Federation at the least. Against SW it is important for them to construct more ships, but against the UFP's pathetic industrial capabilities it is clear that the YV would have little need to do this.

When has the AQ united? During the Dominion War two major powers turned traitor on the rest of their friends, and potentially several others would have had the UFP not won occasional victories. I know that the NR had some internal problems that were "wasting" fleet strength, but that is not the same as the frequent civil wars within the AQ.

[SirNitram]

A ship that is heavily damaged not using a warf strafe proves it isnt possible? doing enough damage during a warf strafe may not have been possible and lets not forget the ship had to be left for dead it was that injured so Picard wasnt going to get another shot at it.

Going at FTL speeds he would over got off a shot maybe two then the Feregi would have come around and pounded on him using the Picard Maneuver got him several shots with all weapons.

A warf strafe wasnt the best thing at the time and it can easily be explained it not being used in light of the state of the ship.

After all that showing that it isnt absolute proof of warp strafing being impossible it still doesnt disprove that torps can be fired from warp onto non warp targets.

And how many times have we seen this? Have you thought about the situation at all? No, of course not. You just assert assert assert without thinking.

There are dozens of times Trek ships drop from Warp to attack. If they could Warp Strafe, they would not need to drop. Ergo, Warp Strafing is bullshit.

[Master of Ossus]

A ship that is heavily damaged not using a warf strafe proves it isnt possible? doing enough damage during a warf strafe may not have been possible and lets not forget the ship had to be left for dead it was that injured so Picard wasnt going to get another shot at it.

Going at FTL speeds he would over got off a shot maybe two then the Feregi would have come around and pounded on him using the Picard Maneuver got him several shots with all weapons.

A warf strafe wasnt the best thing at the time and it can easily be explained it not being used in light of the state of the ship.

After all that showing that it isnt absolute proof of warp strafing being impossible it still doesnt disprove that torps can be fired from warp onto non warp targets.

Nice try Darkling, but remember that there was no known defense against the Picard Maneuver, and it was not just a desperation defense. You use the state of one ship to say that warp strafing may not have been reasonable at the time, but Picard only needed one shot to destroy the Ferengi ship, why not say that warp strafing would have been reasonable given the state of the Ferengi ship?

Also, ST targeting computers are slow as hell. How can a computer that sometimes takes several seconds to lock onto a target be utilized for opening fire on a target in less than one second? All of this indicates that warp strafing is impossible.

[TheDarkling]

Except we have seen it, warp strafing has no advantages under normal circumstances as I have given reasons for above however I will watch "the Battle" again to see if I am missing something.

Warp strafing however has no affect upon firing torps from warp and nanoweapons are still a very good place for the Feds to go.

Time for sleep I will return tomorrow after I have rewatched "The Battle".

[Master of Ossus]

On the contrary, Darkling, warp strafing has considerable advantages while attacking stationary targets. If the UFP and Klingons had used such tactics while attacking the Cardassian battle stations, they would have been able to take essentially zero casualties. Whenever a ship was damaged, it could just stop warp strafing until it had repaired. Multiple ships would have been able to target the same weapons platform, and they would have been able to slowly eliminate the Cardassian defenses. Their fleet was large enough at the time to keep up an almost infinite cycle of ships targeting a single platform. It also would have been HIGHLY useful for either the Klingons or the Dominion during their attacks on DS9.

[starfury]

On the contrary, Darkling, warp strafing has considerable advantages while attacking stationary targets. If the UFP and Klingons had used such tactics while attacking the Cardassian battle stations, they would have been able to take essentially zero casualties. Whenever a ship was damaged, it could just stop warp strafing until it had repaired. Multiple ships would have been able to target the same weapons platform, and they would have been able to slowly eliminate the Cardassian defenses. Their fleet was large enough at the time to keep up an almost infinite cycle of ships targeting a single platform. It also would have been HIGHLY useful for either the Klingons or the Dominion during their attacks on DS9.

indeed, don't forget to add that the burden of proof is on the Darkling for proving that they can warp strafe despite never seeing it on DSN and TNG, not on us to disprove it.

the dominion/cardassian attack on DSN, a stationary platform is a good example to use to counter this.