Naw, we just show them hogtied and blinfolded on the floor of a C-17 in their skivvies. Nothing wrong with that!Knife wrote:I think that pretty much says it. It was my impression, that the violation was the interview/interogation on TV and not the actual shots of POW's on TV. I have yet to see an Iraqi POW on CNN or FOX, being questioned.
POW on TV hypocrisy
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- Stormbringer
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I'm not saying that it is not ethicly wrong for journalist/military to have those pictures (it probably is), I am saying that I was under the impression that the violation of the GC was the televised interogation/interview. I belive that the pictures you are refering too, should only be released after the event and after the return and/or arrest and trial of said POW's. Although, something could be said about the illegal combatent status of the people you refered too.Stormbringer wrote:Naw, we just show them hogtied and blinfolded on the floor of a C-17 in their skivvies. Nothing wrong with that!Knife wrote:I think that pretty much says it. It was my impression, that the violation was the interview/interogation on TV and not the actual shots of POW's on TV. I have yet to see an Iraqi POW on CNN or FOX, being questioned.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
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I'm saying the US is walking an awful fine line on this when we do things. Especially since we were the ones that made the determination they were illegal combatants with the world hollering at us.Knife wrote:I'm not saying that it is not ethicly wrong for journalist/military to have those pictures (it probably is), I am saying that I was under the impression that the violation of the GC was the televised interogation/interview. I belive that the pictures you are refering too, should only be released after the event and after the return and/or arrest and trial of said POW's. Although, something could be said about the illegal combatent status of the people you refered too.
That pictures of that nature were released is to my way of think at least as much a violation as what Iraq did in televising the itterogation.
Agreed, neither should have happened.That pictures of that nature were released is to my way of think at least as much a violation as what Iraq did in televising the itterogation.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
- Stormbringer
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Well, why don't you go down to your local police station and tell them you're Al-Queda and you'll get your wish.kojikun wrote:And how do you know they dont enjoy it? I know I'd love to be bound and gagged and surrounded by tonnes of sexy muscled men..Naw, we just show them hogtied and blinfolded on the floor of a C-17 in their skivvies. Nothing wrong with that!
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Certainly true, but that's a far cry from showing people with their brains blown out.Stormbringer wrote:Naw, we just show them hogtied and blinfolded on the floor of a C-17 in their skivvies. Nothing wrong with that!Knife wrote:I think that pretty much says it. It was my impression, that the violation was the interview/interogation on TV and not the actual shots of POW's on TV. I have yet to see an Iraqi POW on CNN or FOX, being questioned.
They're also dragging the bodies through the streets and the like, a'la Angel in "The Wild Bunch" or U.S. soldiers in Somalia...sick motherfuckers.
I'll tell everyone something else: I don't much give a shit what the Geneva Conventions say. You shoot up my troops then parade them around on TV? Your ass is in for a world of hurt.
Pain, or damage, don't end the world, or despair, or fuckin' beatin's. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, ya got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man ... and give some back.
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Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay: The worst is death, and death will have his day.
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Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay: The worst is death, and death will have his day.
-Ole' Shakey's "Richard II," Act III, scene ii.
- Stormbringer
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That kind of shit sure ought to be punished. That's just.... I can't think of any condemnation strong enough!.seanrobertson wrote:They're also dragging the bodies through the streets and the like, a'la Angel in "The Wild Bunch" or U.S. soldiers in Somalia...sick motherfuckers.
I'll tell everyone something else: I don't much give a shit what the Geneva Conventions say. You shoot up my troops then parade them around on TV? Your ass is in for a world of hurt.
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Re: POW on TV hypocrisy
Japan signed but didn't ratify. The US didn't even sign till there was a new convetion in 1949 IIRC, and didn't ratify that. But it did follow its rules and those of the Hague conventions during WW1 and WW2.Frank Hipper wrote:Did the Taliban sign?Stormbringer wrote:But the Taliban are.Sea Skimmer wrote:Terrorists are not protected by civilian or military laws
I was under the impression that the Geneva Convention only applies to signatories, the Japanese hadn't signed by WWII, and the allies were not under any compunction to follow it's rules as regards Japanese POWs as a result. Or so I thought.
In general the convention is applied to anyone who follows it, even if they are not signatories or never ratified it. However the Talaban didn't sign, ratify or abide by the convention and thus receive no protection.
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Re: POW on TV hypocrisy
The Taliban didn't sign but I don't think that Iraq signed neither so they could do whatever they want to the POWs they have. Funny how some people were yelling geneva convention shit but we did the same thing that they are doing to our soldiers to Taliban prisinors and justifying it with they weren't in the geneva convention.
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Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
Those who treated those US soldiers as they did will reap what they have sown. Moreover, Iraqi soldiers who want to do the right thing in respect to EPW's will also suffer the consequences -- there will be many more dead Iraqis than there would have been had that incident not taken place. Once "Joe" knows what happened to his comrades, he'll be far less inclined to take prisoners.
They didn't like taking prisoners in the first war.jegs2 wrote:Those who treated those US soldiers as they did will reap what they have sown. Moreover, Iraqi soldiers who want to do the right thing in respect to EPW's will also suffer the consequences -- there will be many more dead Iraqis than there would have been had that incident not taken place. Once "Joe" knows what happened to his comrades, he'll be far less inclined to take prisoners.
Or do you not remember when the gunned down surrendering Iraqi's that were walking towards them with their hands up in the air?
- Enlightenment
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OOTH, not taking prisoners or treating them badly will increase the number of Iraqis that you'll have to fight as the Iraqis who would surrender if they were treated decently will now fight to the death.jegs2 wrote:Moreover, Iraqi soldiers who want to do the right thing in respect to EPW's will also suffer the consequences -- there will be many more dead Iraqis than there would have been had that incident not taken place. Once "Joe" knows what happened to his comrades, he'll be far less inclined to take prisoners.
Compare the eastern and western fronts of WWII Europe, for example.
Ted: Post sources or STFU.
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It was footage that came out a few weeks post-war, that the military wanted to destroy, its one of the reasons for the embedding.Enlightenment wrote:Ted: Post sources or STFU.
http://www.themilitant.com/2000/6424/642461.html
This is exactly what Saddam probably wants so that his troops have a greater incentive to fight (as his troops start getting reports that American troops aren't taking surrenders).Enlightenment wrote:OOTH, not taking prisoners or treating them badly will increase the number of Iraqis that you'll have to fight as the Iraqis who would surrender if they were treated decently will now fight to the death.jegs2 wrote:Moreover, Iraqi soldiers who want to do the right thing in respect to EPW's will also suffer the consequences -- there will be many more dead Iraqis than there would have been had that incident not taken place. Once "Joe" knows what happened to his comrades, he'll be far less inclined to take prisoners.
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Re: POW on TV hypocrisy
No. The Taliban government was never recognized by the United Nations.Stormbringer wrote:But the Taliban are.Sea Skimmer wrote:Terrorists are not protected by civilian or military laws
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Re: POW on TV hypocrisy
But recognized or not they were the government there.Master of Ossus wrote:No. The Taliban government was never recognized by the United Nations.Stormbringer wrote:But the Taliban are.Sea Skimmer wrote:Terrorists are not protected by civilian or military laws
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This is probably also why his more rabid troops are engaging in fake surrenders. If the Iraqis do this frequently enough the US will have no alternative but to take no quarter (which is, FWIW, legal in situations where the enemy makes a habit of abusing surrender) for their own safety. Needless to say the Iraqis will largely be forced to fight to the death.phongn wrote:This is exactly what Saddam probably wants so that his troops have a greater incentive to fight (as his troops start getting reports that American troops aren't taking surrenders).
It's not my place in life to make people happy. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to watch me slaughter cows you hold sacred. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to have your basic assumptions challenged. If you want bunnies in light, talk to someone else.
For now we'll probably be greatly increasing precautions when taking surrenders to try and make sure repeat performances don't happen - and when they do they'll be prepared so they don't get ten men killed.Enlightenment wrote:This is probably also why his more rabid troops are engaging in fake surrenders. If the Iraqis do this frequently enough the US will have no alternative but to take no quarter (which is, FWIW, legal in situations where the enemy makes a habit of abusing surrender) for their own safety. Needless to say the Iraqis will largely be forced to fight to the death.phongn wrote:This is exactly what Saddam probably wants so that his troops have a greater incentive to fight (as his troops start getting reports that American troops aren't taking surrenders).
- Enlightenment
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One of the tricks the Iraqis used today was to send a bunch of surrendering troops out then call down artillery on US forces when they went to secure the prisoners. Not easy to defend against--one well-hidden guy with a radio is all it takes to ruin your whole day.phongn wrote:For now we'll probably be greatly increasing precautions when taking surrenders to try and make sure repeat performances don't happen - and when they do they'll be prepared so they don't get ten men killed.
It's not my place in life to make people happy. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to watch me slaughter cows you hold sacred. Don't talk to me unless you're prepared to have your basic assumptions challenged. If you want bunnies in light, talk to someone else.
Yes, I'm extremely inclined to believe a far left "newspaper"...Ted wrote:It was footage that came out a few weeks post-war, that the military wanted to destroy, its one of the reasons for the embedding.Enlightenment wrote:Ted: Post sources or STFU.
http://www.themilitant.com/2000/6424/642461.html
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Very difficult to defend against, unless they start jamming the Iraqis every time they collect prisoners (which is highly unlikely).Enlightenment wrote:One of the tricks the Iraqis used today was to send a bunch of surrendering troops out then call down artillery on US forces when they went to secure the prisoners. Not easy to defend against--one well-hidden guy with a radio is all it takes to ruin your whole day.phongn wrote:For now we'll probably be greatly increasing precautions when taking surrenders to try and make sure repeat performances don't happen - and when they do they'll be prepared so they don't get ten men killed.