BREAKING NEWS ONLY

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-24 02:06am

Darth Wong wrote:Do the Iraqis have night-vision gear widely deployed? Would the cover of darkness make these kinds of operations easier?

Darkness will help but the big problem for helocopter gunships is that they're fighting on what's effectively a pool-table with no cover. Attack helos fight using terrain for cover; without it they're basically sitting ducks.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-03-24 02:52am

Enlightenment wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Do the Iraqis have night-vision gear widely deployed? Would the cover of darkness make these kinds of operations easier?
Darkness will help but the big problem for helocopter gunships is that they're fighting on what's effectively a pool-table with no cover. Attack helos fight using terrain for cover; without it they're basically sitting ducks.

The lack of any real cover in the open plain of the Fertile Crescent makes helo operations rather nerve wracking for the pilots to say the least. All an Iraqi solider needs is a pair of mid-gen IR goggles or gunsights and the heat plumes(even with the Apaches diffusers) from their engines will make them look like roman candles out in the desert.

desertjedi · Post by **desertjedi** » 2003-03-24 03:43am

The BBC website is reporting that an American missile has destroyed a bus in Syria, killing at least five civillians.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/
This is only on the scrolling marquee and not a fuill article.

Oh and FOX News is reporting that a russian company has sold and is currently training Iraqi soldiers how to use IR goggles and GPS jamming devices.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81917,00.html

It's FOX news so take it with a grain of salt, but if it's true, this war is about to get ALOT more dangerous.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-24 03:46am

The Syrian incident involved the USAF (big surprise here...) shooting a bus carrying refugees from the Iraq conflict. Five people are reported dead so far.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0, ... 57,00.html

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-24 03:59am

Trivia: Gulf War III breaks 100 hours, no repeat of GWII.

Reuters commentary

Cal Wright · Post by **Cal Wright** » 2003-03-24 04:00am

Apache Longbow copter down 50mi south of Baghdad, on CNN right now.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-03-24 04:01am

Latest Russian intel:
http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news076.htm

Looks like Jordan are playing favorites:

Russian military intelligence has uncovered a range of facts pointing to a separate arrangement between the top leadership of Jordan and the US military command. Officially Jordan has declared its neutrality in the war against Iraq and refused to provide its airspace to the coalition aviation. However, at the same time Jordan has allowed the anti-Iraq coalition to place surveillance radars and radio reconnaissance stations on its territory. Jordan has also allowed the coalition to use its military airbases.

Available information indicates that coalition special ops units, including up to 400 troops and their command headquarters, have been deployed to the Jordanian Zarka military base and to the home base of the Jordan's 71st special ops brigade.

"Shock and awe" is on hold becaue...:

During the past 12 hours there has been a drop in intensity of air strikes against Baghdad. Analysts attribute this to the fact that most of available coalition air assets are now deployed in support of ground forces.

Success of destroying Baghdad air defense:

So far the US was unable to destroy the air defense networks in central Iraq. As before, the Iraqis continue to covertly use their radars and SAM launchers on a limited bases while employing a huge number of decoys designed to imitate radars.

The US was also unable to disrupt the central control over the Iraqi army. The US command is forced to admit that, despite the best efforts of the coalition aviation, the Iraqi forces maintain high combat readiness and reliable command and control structure.

Are heads already rolling?:

A CIA referent in the combat area Col. Davis (likely to be a pseudonym) and the US DoD Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) regional director were demoted due to their inadequate performance in estimating the strength of Iraq's forces and their combat readiness.

The media have been put on notice:

Work is paralyzed at the coalition press-center in Kuwait. Journalists are not able to get any information except for the hourly press communique from the command. A variety of reasons are cited by the military to reduce the number of trips into the combat zone for the journalists. All reports coming from the journalists attached to the coalition units are now being strictly censored by the military. All live broadcasts, as those seen during the first day of the war, are now strictly prohibited by a special order from the coalition command. The required time delay between the time news video footage was shot and the time it can be broadcast has been increased to a minimum of 4 hours.

Causalty figures according to the Russians:

More accurate information became available regarding the losses sustained by both sides during the first three days of the war. The coalition has officially acknowledged the deaths of some 25 servicemen. However, intercepted radio communications show that the actual number of coalition casualties is at least 55-70 troops killed and no less than 200 wounded. The emergency dispatch of the "Comfort" medical ship closer to the combat zone is a direct indication of serious casualties. The "Comfort" is expected to arrive to the southern tip of the Fao peninsula later tonight.

It is more difficult to evaluate the losses of the Iraqi especially due to the air strikes. On the south front Iraqi losses are estimated at 400-600 killed, 1,500 wounded and up to 300 captured.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-03-24 04:05am

Enlightenment wrote:Trivia: Gulf War III breaks 100 hours, no repeat of GWII.

Reuters commentary

The Second Persian Gulf War lasted six weeks.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-03-24 04:09am

Darth Wong wrote:You can always count on Marina to inject talk of western cultural superiority into any discussion

In fairness, I've never claimed that the west is morally superiour to the rest of the world, though I suppose that could have been implied from that. Incidents like the conquest of Mexico, though, would dispell any such myth. I simply, though, agree with Victor Davis Hanson - The west developed a culture which supports the most lethal and efficient method of war. Needless displays of brutality over prisoners are a perversion of our typical doctrine (though killing them when they hinder an advance or a defence, regrettably, has not been).

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-24 04:09am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:The Second Persian Gulf War lasted six weeks.

If one counts the GWII air campaign. Reuters and I are counting the ground wars.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-03-24 04:11am

Rob Wilson wrote: Having seen th pictures of the dead, I don't recall the precise headwounds. Lots of shrapnel and bullet wounds to the torso's and one guy with burn wounds. But no real headshot only.

I was going off of reports rather than the actual pictures at the time, and I'll concede the point now.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-03-24 04:21am

BoredShirtless wrote:Looks like Jordan are playing favorites:

Isn't this an open secret?

When H1 and H2 were captured it was reported that the US forces had been inserted from Jordan.

Success of destroying Baghdad air defense:

Doesn't seem to be of any importance at present given the remarkable lack of US aircraft shot down by Iraqi AD.

Are heads already rolling?:

If Franks gets extra 'help' in the next while then the Russians' thoughts on US staffing would have a bit more credibility. Time will tell...

These guys have dug up quite a bit of accurate information from time to time but it's burried within a pile of garbage; telling what's real and what's disinformation is not exactly easy.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-03-24 05:43am

Weather forecasters say sandstorms approaching, that means reduced air support for the troops, and back to good old grunt work.

Sebastin · Post by **Sebastin** » 2003-03-24 06:14am

Iraqi Troops capture intact apache helicopter.

Story is in german, sorry.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0 ... 14,00.html

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-24 06:18am

Intact Apache? It's thermal imagers and missiles are off to god knows where ...

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-03-24 06:35am

Vympel wrote:Intact Apache? It's thermal imagers and missiles are off to god knows where ...

Images shown intact, Hellfires and electronics.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-24 06:43am

Warspite wrote:
Vympel wrote:Intact Apache? It's thermal imagers and missiles are off to god knows where ...
Images shown intact, Hellfires and electronics.

If they have someone who can fix it they might use it against Americans

And a bus full of civilian has aledgedly been destroyed by American,yeah right aljazeera what a reliable source

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-03-24 06:54am

Montcalm wrote:If they have someone who can fix it they might use it against Americans

It shouldn't be surprising to find someone on Saddam's payroll, or worse, the missile get's spirited away to be used in terrorist attacks. But, those things take time, and probably, if these missiles "dissappear", there will be a hunt for them by the Intelligence Services. Anyway, this situation reminds me the F-117 shot down in the Balkans a few years ago.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-24 07:11am

Warspite wrote:
Vympel wrote:Intact Apache? It's thermal imagers and missiles are off to god knows where ...
Images shown intact, Hellfires and electronics.

I meant- it will be taken apart and sold off to others.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-03-24 07:20am

Vympel wrote: I meant- it will be taken apart and sold off to others.

Oh, most likely. But so far we only have the footage of the captured chopper, along with the Iraqis comemorating. Nothing else, not even the fate of the pilots, were they captured, did they managed to escape? In short, several hours have passed in which a lot could have happened.
Now, if you were the Coalition commander, what would you do? Probaly, Special Ops are being carried for the recovery, or destruction, of the Apache, along with the recovery of the pilots, since the "front" line is only 100 miles away in the South.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-24 07:40am

Today some sources say more truth than CNN and BBC.
Amazing, but many people conclude that Al-Jazeera is the most objective and truthful source. For example, what about those claims "we'll be in Baghdad two days after" or "we are 250 km into Iraq"? Uh...

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-03-24 07:41am

Stas Bush wrote:Today some sources say more truth than CNN and BBC.
Amazing, but many people conclude that Al-Jazeera is the most objective and truthful source. For example, what about those claims "we'll be in Baghdad two days after" or "we are 250 km into Iraq"? Uh...

Everyday: just 24 hours from Baghdad! We swear! 51st Mechanized has surrendered! This time we're serious! Look, we even have these three Iraqis in civilian clothes to prove it!

The war coverage sucks ass. It's the media saying all this BS most of the time.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-24 07:44am

Vympel
Oh, this "surrender" gets me mad. Obviously showing civilians under rifle aim means Iraq will fall in three days. Don't give a shit about this BS.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-03-24 08:42am

Sky News showing footage of Friday's night attacks on Bagdad. Most impressive, specially a Tomcat refueling near the city.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2003-03-24 09:21am

American missile struck a bus with refugees.