Doctor Who 9x10 - Face The Raven (spoilers!)

[Parallax]

AKA Ding-Ding the Witch is Dead
AKA Our Budget Really Sucks Right Now

This was a vast improvement over last weeks trip deep into Stupidity, though it still had issues.
I do like that it was all a trap, from start to finish. And that the Doctor walked straight into it and, even if he knew about it, he'd have done nothing differently. The trap was clever and that aspect worked.
It seems that Clara is dead and, if it sticks, it's not before time. The character has long overstayed her welcome and was far too much the focus of the show.

I retain my deep dislike of the sonic sunglasses because, if nothing else, they look lazy and cheap. Just like this episode did.
Story wise, I have few problem with this episode but it LOOKED cheap. "All your foes are here! But hidden! Be afraid! OoooOOooOOh!"
From what I've seen, Doctor Who is one of the BBCs main earner ... so you'd think that they'd be increasing the shows budget rather than limiting the storytelling but having only brief glimpses at actual aliens.

I am wondering why the Doctor didn't even attempt to use the sonic sunnies on the teleport bracelet - unless, of course, he wanted to go just so he could find out who was behind the trap.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I rated this as a four. Definitely some quality moments, and Clara's exit/demise was, IMHO, surprisingly well-handled. The situation being a trap was also quite impressive and intriguing,

However, "secret streets magically hidden containing weird creatures? Wow, I wonder where they got that idea from. Also, living where I do, it's becomingly increasingly weird to watch scenes in "london" and thinking "I know that's Cardiff, I've been in that shop, had dinner at that club, used that car park" etc.

[SpottedKitty]

However, "secret streets magically hidden containing weird creatures? Wow, I wonder where they got that idea from.

FWIW, the article in this week's Radio Times noted that the episode writer didn't visualise anything like Diagon Alley. Someone else on the design team had a different idea.

[Hillary]

Hooray - she gone!!! Until the finale anyway.

Apart from the overlong goodbye section, I thought this was amongst the best episodes of the season. What started as a straightforward whodunnit turned into a much murkier plot and a surprising reveal at the end.

All looked a bit Harry Potter to me, but I haven't seen Diagon Alley.

[Parallax]

One thing I would like to know is...

... who is the complete wanker who keeps voting 1 without having the goddamn decency to at least leave a comment?

[Broomstick]

Well done death from a narrative point of view.

I like that Clara (apparently) cut short the Doctor's revenge - hopefully that will keep us from hearing about Clara for the next three seasons.

I think Clara's recklessness was a sort of death wish. She kept taking chances until one caught up with her, but at least she took responsibility and faced the consequences of her actions, and did what she could to limit the damage resulting from it.

[The Romulan Republic]

I haven't seen it yet, but I gather that Clara died.

While I'll withhold final judgment at least until I watch the repeat in an hour, I can't say I like that.

It seems like its obligatory that every companion dies, or otherwise has something horrible happen to them, when they leave. Was that generally the case with the old series, or is this a new development? Can't a companion ever just move on with their life, rather than trying to milk it as some grand melodramatic tragedy?

Edit: And yes, I know Martha was an exception. Guess what? She's also my possibly my favourite companion (well, neck and neck with Rory, anyway).

[Iroscato]

Well, Amy and Rory were thrown back in time and lived long, apparently happy lives together, so I wouldn't say that was horrible. Rose ended up being reunited with her father and (after a fashion) a version of the love of her life.

[DaveJB]

It seems like its obligatory that every companion dies, or otherwise has something horrible happen to them, when they leave. Was that generally the case with the old series, or is this a new development?

It started happening increasingly in the latter years of Classic Who. After Tom Baker left we saw two outright companion deaths (Adric and Kamelion), one that was supposed to be a death but got retconned after the production team wimped out (Peri), and one suffering a nervous breakdown and calling quits on her time with the Doctor (Tegan). Of the remainder, one decided to leave in order to help cure a galactic plague (Nyssa), another decided to return to his home planet after his exile was lifted (Turlough), and one apparently just got bored and left for no real reason (Mel). So about the same mix of decent to horrible fates as the modern series.

And before that, the most common reason for a companion's departure tended to be that they'd fallen in love with a guest star and decided to stay with them. Something that I don't think would go down so well with modern audiences.

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay, first of all... what the fuck made them think it was remotely responsible or in good taste to describe a street full of scary alien monsters, some of whom the show had long established as the Doctor's enemies, as a refugee camp, especially with what's going on in Europe? It was somewhat offset by the more sympathetic depiction of some of the inhabitants, but it wasn't enough to make up for that ugly first impression, especially when they also harkened back to the Zygons and had the immortal Viking girl insisting that such a community could only function if it was kept isolated and under draconian authoritarian rule (granted, she was basically a villain).

Second of all, they handled Clara's death pretty well right up to the ridiculously hammy and stupid slow motion sequence. God damn it.

I also dislike the suggestion that Clara wanted to die. It didn't entirely ring true for me, and it follows a disturbing trend in recent Doctor Who of making characters suicidal and portraying that in a sympathetic light.

Which is a pity, because other than the above, this was probably the strongest episode since Day of the Doctor. Admittedly, some things seemed a little poorly developed, some parts seemed rushed, and the revelation that Clara couldn't pass off her impending death seemed contrived and irrelevant (as if Clara would have been cowardly enough to let another die for her even if it was an option). Likewise the notion that the raven was an intelligent being with whom what'sshername had struck a bargain rather than simply a tool came out of nowhere (unless I missed something earlier) and seemed a forced way to make it a no win situation. However, despite that, Capaldi gave a fine performance, blending horror and menace, and I actually liked poor Clara for the most part this time around. A lot of the acting was quite strong, in fact. Viking Girl made for a surprisingly nuanced villain, and the TARDIS theft idea was a fairly effective red hearing. The episode had an effective atmosphere too, both in spookiness and tragedy. I also liked the way this episode referred back to Day of the Doctor.

It does leave a big question unresolved though- that guy last season who was implied to be a descendent of Danny and Clara. You know, somehow I don't think this is the last of Clara (and I thought I saw somewhere that she was scheduled to leave at Christmas).

As to who the enemy behind this is, I'm betting Davros and/or Missy. It would tie the whole season together, the fate of both was unrevealed as of their last appearance, and it would have to be someone pretty powerful to bully Viking Girl into turning on the Doctor rather than asking him for help (unless she really dislikes him that much). Also, the way they referred back to the start of the season with the Doctor's will is suggestive.

[The Romulan Republic]

One thing I wonder is if Viking Girl has any idea how insanely lucky she is- she is indirectly responsible for the death of one of the Doctor's companions, and she walked away scot free. Though I suspect that score isn't settled yet.

[Parallax]

I'm actually wondering if the villains behind the trap aren't the Time Lords themselves. We know they have teleport bracelet tech (the Time Ring from way back in Genesis of the Daleks springs to mind). The only problem with that is motivation.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well if Rassilon is still in charge I'd imagine he's still pretty pissed at the Doctor after their previous meetings.

[Hillary]

Okay, first of all... what the fuck made them think it was remotely responsible or in good taste to describe a street full of scary alien monsters, some of whom the show had long established as the Doctor's enemies, as a refugee camp, especially with what's going on in Europe? It was somewhat offset by the more sympathetic depiction of some of the inhabitants, but it wasn't enough to make up for that ugly first impression, especially when they also harkened back to the Zygons and had the immortal Viking girl insisting that such a community could only function if it was kept isolated and under draconian authoritarian rule (granted, she was basically a villain).

This would have been written and filmed long before the current crisis occurred, so I think you're being rather unfair here.

[Broomstick]

Okay, first of all... what the fuck made them think it was remotely responsible or in good taste to describe a street full of scary alien monsters, some of whom the show had long established as the Doctor's enemies, as a refugee camp, especially with what's going on in Europe?

As has already been pointed out, these was written and filmed before the current crisis. Maybe you think they should have just cancelled it? Tossed it in the trash and called it another lost episode?

It was somewhat offset by the more sympathetic depiction of some of the inhabitants, but it wasn't enough to make up for that ugly first impression, especially when they also harkened back to the Zygons and had the immortal Viking girl insisting that such a community could only function if it was kept isolated and under draconian authoritarian rule (granted, she was basically a villain).

The isolation was to protect them from the surrounding humans. Really, it was as much a prison as anything else.

I also dislike the suggestion that Clara wanted to die. It didn't entirely ring true for me, and it follows a disturbing trend in recent Doctor Who of making characters suicidal and portraying that in a sympathetic light.

They've been building towards that since Danny's death, though, that didn't come out of nowhere.

It does leave a big question unresolved though- that guy last season who was implied to be a descendent of Danny and Clara. You know, somehow I don't think this is the last of Clara (and I thought I saw somewhere that she was scheduled to leave at Christmas).

Perhaps he was a descendant of relatives, nieces or cousins?

Alternate time line that no longer exists?

[The Romulan Republic]

As has already been pointed out, these was written and filmed before the current crisis. Maybe you think they should have just cancelled it? Tossed it in the trash and called it another lost episode?

That's an interesting point, and one I did consider, believe it or not.

I don't doubt that the episode was written and film before the Paris Attacks, but the rush of refugees into Europe has been going on for quite some time. Just how long is the production schedule for a Doctor Who episode?

And no, I am not saying the episode should not have been aired. I am not a fan of censorship by any means. However, that doesn't mean that I don't think the message was poor and would have been under any circumstances, or that I don't think the timing was particularly unfortunate, or that I cannot criticize it on that basis. I'm not obligated to like every episode, am I?

Though actually, my opinion of this one isn't total dislike but pretty much "Technically fairly well-made episode that had some possibly unintended unfortunate messages".

The isolation was to protect them from the surrounding humans. Really, it was as much a prison as anything else.

Either way, its still basically saying "refugees can't intermingle with the inhabitants of a country, but need to be isolated in a camp or ghetto."

I'll give them a little slack on this though because that was mostly Viking Girl's opinion, and she was the villain. I just wish it had been shown clearly that she was wrong.

They've been building towards that since Danny's death, though, that didn't come out of nowhere.

Maybe. I'd have to go and rematch those episodes to be sure.

Perhaps he was a descendant of relatives, nieces or cousins?

Alternate time line that no longer exists?

Maybe. It just seems a big thing to leave hanging their.

But then, this is Doctor Who. It has continuity in only a very loose sense.

[Broomstick]

I don't doubt that the episode was written and film before the Paris Attacks, but the rush of refugees into Europe has been going on for quite some time. Just how long is the production schedule for a Doctor Who episode?

I think 6 to 9 months is fairly typical? Sometimes a year?

My understanding is that season doesn't air until all the episodes are finished, unlike American TV where the end of the filming season may or may not overlap the beginning of the broadcast season.

The isolation was to protect them from the surrounding humans. Really, it was as much a prison as anything else.

Either way, its still basically saying "refugees can't intermingle with the inhabitants of a country, but need to be isolated in a camp or ghetto."

I'll give them a little slack on this though because that was mostly Viking Girl's opinion, and she was the villain. I just wish it had been shown clearly that she was wrong.

The "imprison the newcomers in a ghetto" is one of the options to the refugee problem that people bring up from time to time, and using the "native population will attack them" as a justification isn't uncommon, either. Just as the "assimilate them until they look and act no different than the natives" is also brought up, mirroring the Zygon situation earlier in the season.

I'd say neither "solution" was offered in a favorable light. Certainly, the downsides of each approach were apparent.

They've been building towards that since Danny's death, though, that didn't come out of nowhere.

Maybe. I'd have to go and rematch those episodes to be sure.

For once, they didn't beat people over the head with it but Clara has become progressively more reckless over time, and there have been comments dropped.

[ray245]

Clara's recklessness is really annoying, mainly because she generally expects to the saved while all the other people the Doctor met will be killed. I don't really like Clara because at no point in time does she act like a person who is really concerned about the welfare of bystanders. To her, they are just part of the game she is playing with the Doctor.

The Doctor really needs a more compassionate companion.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The line that it could be "passed on but never cheated", I assumed that meant both the original carrier of the death-mark and the recipient would be killed, the fate of the guy at the end was left open.

Quite a few things were obvious handwaves, like the raven supposedly able to find you regardless of where you go in time and space therefore they couldn't escape in the TARDIS, and the viking girl being unable to lift the death-mark because the "terms had been changed". While I'd read that Jenna Coleman was leaving so I knew she'd be killed off I half-expected the crow to fly past her and kill the doctor because he'd taken the mark when she hugged him. Doctor would regenerate, either in his current form or whoever was lined up to play the nexxt doc.

[Batman]

I know this is not the nuWho way but...nobody ever even thought about shooting the raven? Sure, pseudoscience/fate/whatever, it ends up not working, but nobody ever tries?

[Enigma]

The line that it could be "passed on but never cheated", I assumed that meant both the original carrier of the death-mark and the recipient would be killed, the fate of the guy at the end was left open.

Quite a few things were obvious handwaves, like the raven supposedly able to find you regardless of where you go in time and space therefore they couldn't escape in the TARDIS, and the viking girl being unable to lift the death-mark because the "terms had been changed". While I'd read that Jenna Coleman was leaving so I knew she'd be killed off I half-expected the crow to fly past her and kill the doctor because he'd taken the mark when she hugged him. Doctor would regenerate, either in his current form or whoever was lined up to play the nexxt doc.

Wouldn't work. The raven most likely would continue to kill him until it has his soul.

[Tribble]

The line that it could be "passed on but never cheated", I assumed that meant both the original carrier of the death-mark and the recipient would be killed, the fate of the guy at the end was left open.

Quite a few things were obvious handwaves, like the raven supposedly able to find you regardless of where you go in time and space therefore they couldn't escape in the TARDIS, and the viking girl being unable to lift the death-mark because the "terms had been changed". While I'd read that Jenna Coleman was leaving so I knew she'd be killed off I half-expected the crow to fly past her and kill the doctor because he'd taken the mark when she hugged him. Doctor would regenerate, either in his current form or whoever was lined up to play the nexxt doc.

Wouldn't work. The raven most likely would continue to kill him until it has his soul.

Or the Raven kills him beyond the point of regeneration.

Hmmmm... what would happen if Captain Jack had the mark? Would he die, Would the Raven kill him once, Would they be stuck in an unending cycle of death, or would the Raven just give up after awhile?

[Bedlam]

Hmmmm... what would happen if Captain Jack had the mark? Would he die, Would the Raven kill him once, Would they be stuck in an unending cycle of death, or would the Raven just give up after awhile?

No way of knowing really but I'd suspect the unending cycle of death thing, maybe the raven would overload eventually or just die after a very extended period.

It's possible it would just be a single death as well.

As I've always understood Jacks Immortality (although it doesn't really match what we see on screen) is because Rose/Bad Wolf/The Time Vortex declared that he will live that every time he dies he 'resets' to the point before his first death. Maybe the mark wouldn't be on him any more after that.

[Captain Seafort]

As I've always understood Jacks Immortality (although it doesn't really match what we see on screen) is because Rose/Bad Wolf/The Time Vortex declared that he will live that every time he dies he 'resets' to the point before his first death. Maybe the mark wouldn't be on him any more after that.

Alternatively, the mark might not stick to him in the first place - he doesn't just fail to stay dead, he doesn't change either.

[Tribble]

As I've always understood Jacks Immortality (although it doesn't really match what we see on screen) is because Rose/Bad Wolf/The Time Vortex declared that he will live that every time he dies he 'resets' to the point before his first death. Maybe the mark wouldn't be on him any more after that.

Alternatively, the mark might not stick to him in the first place - he doesn't just fail to stay dead, he doesn't change either.

Ya it's hard to say for sure. I'm not even sure if the Raven's would stick to Jack at all- he's been shown to be completely immune to certain things, including carbon monoxide, and radiation powerful enough to vaporize humans even when they are wearing protective clothing. Though it would be kinda amusing to watch the Raven get fat and explode, as it wouldn't be the first time that Jack's immortality killed something.

IIRC the Doctor mentioned that Jack had become a living "fact" of the universe, such an impossible thing that even the Doctor had difficulty looking at him. It wasn't just that he was immortal, apparently he had become an immutable part of the universe's history, at least until his apparent death as the Face of Boe. IMO this is also the reason why the Doctor disabled his Vortex Manipulator - if all of Jack's history is fact and cannot be altered, and he time travels, I'd imagine that could screw things up really badly.