Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/p ... -1.3333632
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says his government won't fulfil its campaign pledge to bring 25,000 refugees to Canada by the end of the year, but justified the delay by saying it is more important to "get it right."

"We looked at the logistics, we looked at what it would take to bring them in by Jan. 1, and we had options around that," he told Metro Morning host Matt Galloway during a one on one interview in Ottawa earlier today.

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"We realized that we wanted to make sure it was done absolutely right to ensure that Canadians who have been incredibly open and enthusiastic about it remain as positive about welcoming these families as they possibly could be."

But Trudeau's enthusiasm for bringing Syrians displaced by conflict to Canada has not abated, and will take place in 2016.

Trudeau said welcoming refugees is a positive thing for the country.

Justin Trudeau on refugee plan
Justin Trudeau tells CBC's Matt Galloway in Ottawa on Tuesday that his government has decided to delay his year-end deadline to bring 25,000 Syrian refugees. (CBC)

"This is not just about welcoming 25,000 Syrian refugees, this is about welcoming 25,000 new Canadians," he said.

He talked about giving the Syrian newcomers pathways to success in Canada, saying it isn't about simply bringing them to the country but helping them integrate with society.

"This is not about government signing a paper and bringing over refugees, this is a whole of Canada effort," he said.

'Not about security'

Despite Trudeau repeating his pledge to bring more refugees to Canada throughout the federal election campaign, some polls show a majority of Canadians do not agree with his refugee resettlement plan.

Though he said he doesn't put a lot of stock in polls, the prime minister said Canadians want to see their government as a "positive actor" on the world stage.

"This is not about security. The security is an issue we've dealt with," he said.

"This is about welcoming people who are fleeing terrorism, not bringing terrorism with them."

The Liberals have put in place a security screening program that begins overseas. Trudeau said this will allow Candians to be more reassured that refugees are not a threat.

"We want these families arriving to be welcomed, not feared," said Trudeau.

Media placeholderPlay Media
Justin Trudeau: "It's an important step, but not the only thing Canada is going to be doing."1:56

Paris attacks not a factor

The ISIS-affiliated gunmen who killed 130 people in the French capital on Nov. 13, Trudeau insisted, did not influence his decision to delay the resettlement process.

Prime Minister Trudeau says Canada will help 'de-escalate' tensions between Russia, Turkey
He did say that the "law of large numbers" dictates that there will be some newcomers that will be "problematic," but not to the point that Canada would send them back into a war zone.

He said the Paris attacks did affect the public psyche. Trudeau also acknowledged that in the U.S., among the public and state governors, there is a strong opposition to bringing in Syrian refugees.

"I was aware that there might be concerns when I sat down with President [Barack] Obama last week. On the contrary, he was effusive in his support of what we're doing," said Trudeau.

"He has pointed out there is more of a security risk from tourists than refugees."

Future Canadians

The government-sponsored resettlement program will initially not include unaccompanied or single adult males. Trudeau said this was a matter of the program being an "accelerated process."

He said the most vulnerable will be accepted first, and families and children fit into that group. Other groups with demonstrated vulnerabilities in the region are members of the LGBT communities in Syria, he said.

But that isn't final.

Trudeau said risk profiles come into play but screeners overseas can make judgements, and "anyone who comes up with a slightly more complex profile will simply get deferred to future consideration," he said.

Media placeholderPlay Media
Justin Trudeau revises timeline to resettle 25,000 refugees by year end."1:03

'This is the story of this country'

Trudeau said he had a conversation in cabinet recently when he and several ministers pointed to Maryam Monsef, the minister of democratic institutions, who came to Canada from Afghanistan when she was 10.

"Right now there's a 10-year-old girl in a Syrian camp somewhere, and she can aspire that in 30 or 20 years she might be sitting around the cabinet table helping run an extraordinary country like Canada," he said.

Trudeau agreed the refugee resettlement program is a nation-building process.

"This is the story of this country," he said.
I am deeply disgusted and disappointed by this, and as someone who had previously defended Trudeau's courage and principle on this issue, ashamed.

Practical difficulties be damned. Canada is a fairly large and prosperous nation. 25,000 by the end of the year shouldn't be beyond us. It isn't beyond us, barring political cowardice, bigotry, and incompetence.

Oh, sure, they say they'll bring in 25,000 eventually, but with no specific date given beyond 2016. Also, I expect that the ones they bring in next year will be done instead of the additional refugees who otherwise would have been brought in next year.

And I do not believe that "security" (aka prejudice and paranoia) did not play at least a part in this, given the timing and political climate.

Shameful. Absolutely shameful.

I've already posted some scathing comments on Trudeau's Facebook page and intend to follow it up with letters to my MP and the Trudeau government expressing my displeasure as a Canadian citizen and voter. I encourage other Canadians to do likewise.

I will also remember this when the next election rolls around.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm going to add that even if I bought that this had to happen, it would not reflect well on Trudeau. At best, it would mean that he made an unrealistic promise that he could not keep.

So liar and coward, or incompetent fool.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by Zaune »

To be scrupulously fair to Trudeau's government, it is at least possible that temporary accommodation for the new arrivals just isn't ready yet for reasons that are genuinely beyond their control; maybe a load of new construction got held up by bad weather, maybe some existing apartment buildings they bought turned out to be in worse shape than expected, maybe they're having trouble finding enough qualified ESL instructors who have good Arabic(?) language skills. Shit happens.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Granted.

However, have yet to see any such explanation.

And I do think that it is important, when possible, to hold politicians to their word. Especially when it involves the safety and future of 25,000 desperate and innocent people and Canada has, up until now, been a rare ray of hope in the post-Paris wave of bigotry.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by Elheru Aran »

Let's be frank here, it's only a little over a month before the year ends, and Trudeau *just* got elected, what, a couple weeks ago? He's got to be playing some serious catch-up right now. With how much of a hot-potato the refugee issue is, I'm not surprised at all that he's finding it difficult to keep his end of that promise up. 25,000 refugees is a sizable number of people to screen and transport in about a month-plus.

Does that exculpate him? Not really, he could have been a little more realistic about it. But there are any number of fairly sensible reasons why he may be having practical issues coming through on that promise. He's only just started out, give him a chance before you give him the boot.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by Solauren »

The problem is manpower.

There is no way to process, transport and house 25,000 people in less then 5 weeks.

The fact they'll be able to get them processed by January 1 in itself is amazing.

Housing by the end of Feb? Very Impressive.

Let's give him some credit. He's sticking to his pledge, to the best of realistic expectations.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Source for the dates? Neither was in the article I posted, or anything else I recall reading.

I am glad if their is a definite deadline, and if its so soon, though I am still concerned that people brought in next year may be taken out of next year's refugee numbers. I hope that's not the case.

And frankly, Canada is a rich nation of over 30 million. I don't see why this is that hard. If it was 25,000 of our people who had to be resettled, I expect their'd be more of an effort to find a way.

And if it is impossible, Trudeau shouldn't have promised to do it.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I mean, don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to unreasonably bash Trudeau. I still think he's a hell of a lot better than his predecessor. But I honestly feel that their is a moral imperative on this issue, and that "better" is not good enough.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by Elheru Aran »

Also bear in mind that they're being brought in from overseas. It's not so easy as just hiring a bunch of buses. That kind of people movement requires a definite degree of coordination, and in this case, security.

As I said, the guy just now got elected. He was a MP for some time, but that's not PM. It's quite possible that he was simply unaware of the government being unprepared to coordinate and move such a number of people in such a short time, because nobody thought to tell him or Harper didn't want him to be making more realistic promises in the hopes of damaging him in the future.

The fact of the matter is that it's amazing that anybody is doing anything about this on our side of the Atlantic, to be quite honest. South of the Pecos, nobody has the money or the time to care about the refugee situation. The US is fucked in the head. Canada are the only reasonable people around, and they just now elected Trudeau. Things take time to happen. He called it a bit too soon and it's biting him in the ass, but he's still trying to do SOMETHING. Don't throw the baby out with the bath-water.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ot ... spartandhp
The federal government will miss its year-end deadline to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees into Canada by two months, welcoming them in the country only after they have undergone a full security and health screening on foreign soil.

In addition, Ottawa is only sponsoring, or covering the initial costs, for 60-per cent of the asylum seekers, despite the Liberal Party of Canada’s election pledge to bring in all 25,000 as government-assisted refugees.

The Liberal Party had promised during the last election campaign to take in all of the refugees by the end of the year, but the last of the 25,000 asylum seekers will only arrive by the end of February, federal officials said on Tuesday.

Between now and Dec. 31, Canada is only expecting to welcome 10,000 refugees, while the other 15,000 refugees will be resettled in January and February. Still, all 25,000 refugees will be identified and selected by the end of the year, federal officials said.

The first planeload is set to land in Canada in early December.

In addition, only 15,000 of the refugees will be sponsored by the government. The Liberals had promised during the last election campaign to resettle all 25,000 of them as government-assisted refugees, with Ottawa picking up the entire cost. Instead, 10,000 of the refugees will be sponsored by private citizens and groups.

The cost to taxpayers over the next six years will be between $564-million and $678-million, with the bulk of the spending over the first two years of the program.

“It is largely new money,” a federal official said at a background briefing on the plan.

All refugees will be admitted into Canada as permanent residents, meaning they will have been screened in countries such as Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey before flying into Canada. There had been speculation that the government would bring in some refugees as temporary residents and finish the screening on Canadian soil, to meet the Liberal timeline, but that option was rejected by the Trudeau government.

The government’s focus will be on admitting full families, women at risk and members of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities. Single men will only be admitted if they are accompanying their parents or are identified as members of the LGBT community, federal officials said.

Orphans will only be welcomed if they have family ties in Canada.

Most refugees will go straight into communities to start their lives in Canada, with military bases only serving as a “back-up plan” to serve as temporary housing.

The refugees will be selected by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees.

All new refugees will be personally interviewed by federal officials. In addition, the government will take biometric information from all refugees and check the information against databases in Canada and the United States to conduct security checks. All of them will also undergo medical examinations and tests for diseases such as tuberculosis, and undergo ID checks before they enter Canada.

The federal government is launching a website through which Canadians will be able to show their interest in sponsoring refugees.

Canada has already received 102 Syrian refugees since Nov. 4, when the Liberal government was sworn-in, and who count against the 25,000 objective. There were 3,000 Syrian refugees who came to Canada under the previous Conservative government.

The briefing on the plan was conducted by officials from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, National Defence, the Canada Border Services Agency and the Public Health Agency. They spoke to reporters on the condition that their names would be withheld.
According to this article, the deadline to settle all 25,000 is being extended by two months. 10,000 will still be settled by the end of the year, with the remaining 15,000 being processed by the end of the year and brought in between Jan-Feb. While it's unfortunate I'm not really all that surprised, I always thought the 25,000 figure by the end of the year was a bit of a stretch.
Last edited by Tribble on 2015-11-24 05:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

As to the transportation issue, I don't know why the government can't just charter some private jets for the job. That wouldn't be that expensive, surely. I think I even read something about doing so earlier. And as for security, well, I'm not saying we shouldn't screen people, but the priority for me is helping innocent people who need it, not being afraid that some of them might be terrorists (who honestly have other ways of getting into the country). Besides, the government denies that this is over security (not that I believe them).

And like I said, we could do a lot worse than Trudeau. That doesn't mean I'm not going to keep the pressure on him, and urge others to do so as well. This isn't something that can be neglected, because neglecting it even a little means more people suffering and dying.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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It's not just a matter of bringing refugees over, it's also the matter of being ready for them and helping them integrate into Canadian society. IMO merely shuffling them from one refugee cam to another where they will have to wait for months for proper care wouldn't accomplish all that much. It's likely that under Harper the civil service was woefully underprepared for the task ahead, and now has to play serious catch-up. At best you could say the civil service was ready for 10,000 refugees (though I suspect Harper would have dragged things out as much as possible, and the civil service wasn't even ready to handle that number), and ramping up to properly address 2.5x that population would take time. If anything Trudeau's mistake was that his expectations were unrealistic.
Last edited by Tribble on 2015-11-24 05:50pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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If the promise was unrealistic, it should not have been made.

And frankly, even a half-assed job of resettling people would probably leave them better off than where they are.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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The Romulan Republic wrote:If the promise was unrealistic, it should not have been made.
I agree, Trudeau should not have made that promise, but it shouldn't come as a surprise to you that he broke it. After 11 years of Harper, do you really think our social services would be ready to handle 25,000 refugees landing in Canada by the end of the year? They can't even properly handle the social needs for our own citizens right now.
And frankly, even a half-assed job of resettling people would probably leave them better off than where they are.
It's a 60 day delay. Unfortunate, yes, but it's not like flat out refusing to accept any. I'd rather we do the job properly the first time as that will lead to far less problems for the refugees further down the road.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I wonder how much pain and death will take place in those 60 days. And if the refugees desperate to get somewhere like Canada will accept "We couldn't keep our word because our last PM was a jackass."
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by Elheru Aran »

The Romulan Republic wrote:I wonder how much pain and death will take place in those 60 days. And if the refugees desperate to get somewhere like Canada will accept "We couldn't keep our word because our last PM was a jackass."
They are going to be happy to get there in the first place, whether it takes a week or 60 days. And trust me, I think they're probably familiar with shitty leadership. First World governments are going to be a thing of joy for them after what they were used to (though the bureaucracy will probably be depressingly familiar).
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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The Romulan Republic wrote:I wonder how much pain and death will take place in those 60 days.
Seeing as we will likely be cherry-picking refugees from areas where they are not in immediate threat, perhaps not as much as you might expect.
And if the refugees desperate to get somewhere like Canada will accept "We couldn't keep our word because our last PM was a jackass."
Depends on how you frame it. "We want to make sure you have adequate care" may sound better than "hey guess what? we're just going to transfer you from one refugee camp to another! It'll be just like your hell hole back at home, only colder! What's that you said? Sorry, we don't have any translators because we didn't have the time to get those, so you're going to have to speak up, in English."

Again, it's not like we are taking zero between now and February. We're still taking 10,000 by the end of the year. YMMV, but I'm firmly of the opinion that we do the job right the first time.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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The Romulan Republic wrote:As to the transportation issue, I don't know why the government can't just charter some private jets for the job.
Because you're adding an extra hundred intercontinental flights during what is already the busiest time of year for air travel?
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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No offence but, if your argument is "It might mess up some peoples' Christmas travel plans", my instinctive response is basically "Cry me a fucking river". Isn't this season supposed to be about charity and helping your fellow people?

But I suppose putting it that bluntly would just antagonize more people against refugees.
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The Romulan Republic wrote:I wonder how much pain and death will take place in those 60 days.
Seeing as we will likely be cherry-picking refugees from areas where they are not in immediate threat, perhaps not as much as you might expect.
And if the refugees desperate to get somewhere like Canada will accept "We couldn't keep our word because our last PM was a jackass."
Depends on how you frame it. "We want to make sure you have adequate care" may sound better than "hey guess what? we're just going to transfer you from one refugee camp to another! It'll be just like your hell hole back at home, only colder! What's that you said? Sorry, we don't have any translators because we didn't have the time to get those, so you're going to have to speak up, in English."

Again, it's not like we are taking zero between now and February. We're still taking 10,000 by the end of the year. YMMV, but I'm firmly of the opinion that we do the job right the first time.
Oh, I'm not saying we shouldn't do the job as well as possible. Just that given a choice between leaving them where they are a little longer to have everything right when they get here, and bringing them here now and sorting out some of the problems once they're here, I lean toward the latter. Though I can see an argument either way.

I also think taking people only from safe areas is rather stupid. Probably a concession to national security fears.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by Tribble »

I also think taking people only from safe areas is rather stupid. Probably a concession to national security fears.
I agree, though I highly suspect that's what's going to happen. Which is why I feel the delay may be better off for them in the long run.

Of course we'll probably be blamed the next time something happens in the USA even though the Syrian refugees will almost certainly have had nothing to do with it. I'm sure there's still a fair number of Americans who think the 9/11 hijackers came from Canada.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by Grumman »

The Romulan Republic wrote:No offence but, if your argument is "It might mess up some peoples' Christmas travel plans", my instinctive response is basically "Cry me a fucking river".
No, my argument is that people and airlines have Thanksgiving and Christmas travel plans, and if you demand a hundred international charter flights on short notice they aren't going to drop everything to suit you.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

This is Canada. Thanksgiving was more than a month ago.

As to Christmas, I suppose everything might already be booked up with Christmas flights. I don't know. Been a while since I flew at Christmastime.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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The Romulan Republic wrote:No offence but, if your argument is "It might mess up some peoples' Christmas travel plans", my instinctive response is basically "Cry me a fucking river". Isn't this season supposed to be about charity and helping your fellow people?
Are you just being a complete twat about this on purpose? The issue is that adding the logistical burden of an extra 100+ planes onto an already overloaded air traffic system is not trivial. Where are the planes going to come from? Where are the crews going to come from? Which airports are they going to use? At what time, at what terminal, with which ground crew, etc. etc. It's certainly not an impossible, but neither is it something that is easy to do on short notice. Why does this need to be explained?

You seem to be actively looking for a way to criticize Trudeau more than anything else. I mean, a politician made a slightly inaccurate and overly optimistic prediction about how effective they will be at their job, news at 11. As of right now, every indication is that they are doing everything they can to expedite the process while ensuring the harmless integration of the refugees, which is in their best interest.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I think their are legitimate grounds to criticize Trudeau, and I've tried to be fair about it. While I may not have considered every detail, I do not need to have it explained to me that it is difficult, you condescending twit. However, as you yourself noted, difficult is not the same as impossible. And whining about how hard it is to keep our word is a poor excuse when people suffer as a result.

And I will not allow you to insinuate that I am a liar and a troll because I feel that the government should not make promises it cannot keep and should not be using half-measures or making excuses for not dealing with one of the foremost humanitarian crises of our time. You may not agree with my conclusions, but that does not mean I am engaging in deliberate falsehood.

Edit: And even if Trudeau literally could not possibly meet his goal, that doesn't excuse him. It just means he made a stupid, reckless promise.
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Re: Trudeau abandons refugee pledge.

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The Romulan Republic wrote:I think their are legitimate grounds to criticize Trudeau, and I've tried to be fair about it. While I may not have considered every detail, I do not need to have it explained to me that it is difficult, you condescending twit. However, as you yourself noted, difficult is not the same as impossible. And whining about how hard it is to keep our word is a poor excuse when people suffer as a result.

And I will not allow you to insinuate that I am a liar and a troll because I feel that the government should not make promises it cannot keep and should not be using half-measures or making excuses for not dealing with one of the foremost humanitarian crises of our time. You may not agree with my conclusions, but that does not mean I am engaging in deliberate falsehood.

Edit: And even if Trudeau literally could not possibly meet his goal, that doesn't excuse him. It just means he made a stupid, reckless promise.
He made a promise that seemed reasonable with the information he had at the time. Not being a part of the party that has been in power for the past decade, he had no way of knowing that we could handle 25,000 refugees in a short time span. Just like he couldn't know the true state of the budget and exactly what Harper's idea of 'balanced' actually meant until he took power. The fact that he's still committed to helping even if it is on a longer time scale and in the face of obstacles should be commended and not condemned.
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