Doctor Who 9x10 - Heaven Sent (spoilers!)

[jwl]

He didn't need to gain the memories of the several billion versions of himself because it is all the same. The latest incarnation has all the relevant memories because they all experienced the same. He knows that the skulls were his past selves and that he's been essentially doing the same thing over and over again.

Whether he needs to gain the memories or not is immaterial when he says this:

That's when I remember! Always then. Always...then. Always exactly then!

I can't keep doing this, Clara! I can't! Why is it always me? Why is it never anybody else's turn?!

....

But I can remember, Clara. You don't understand, I can remember it all. Every time.

[Broomstick]

That was awesome.

Not awesome in the modern sense of wonderful and fantastic but in the older sense of the word, something that inspires awe, beautiful and terrifying all at the same time, like watching an avalanche roll down a hill towards you.

Genuinely one of the few episodes, old or new, that I have actually found frightening. I've been a grown up for decades but I was still, so to speak, watching from behind the sofa.

AKA Moping About Clara

Yeah, it's normal to “mope” after a friend dies. That's not moping, it's grieving.

AKA The Doctor's Mind Palace

No, it's his Confession Dial. I figured that out the second time the castle started moving. Leave it to the Time Lords to have a mechanism for extracting one's last will and testament, willing or no.

AKA What ^&*%(* is wrong with the Time Lords?!

They're dicks. They've always been dicks.

The purpose of the tower? It certainly wasn't to kill the Doctor, even the Time Lords don't design things that badly. To imprison him? That certainly would never work. To make him confess certain things? Possible but to what end?

It's all in the name – it's a confession dial, a mechanism to cause you to confess.

Regardless of the purpose, the Doctor was in the tower for BILLIONS OF YEARS, dying painfully over and over and over and over. We can assume that the Time Lords knew of this and were probably even watching it all unfold ... which makes them pure, undiluted sadists. You have to be pretty screwed up to even allow such a thing to happen, let alone monitor it.

Well... yes and no. Yes, within the pocket universe (if that's what it was – let's face it, none of us really understand Time Lord technology) billions of years passed, but if not on the outside then in a sense it was “subjective” time... except subjectively the Doctor only experienced one day. Because of the reset you could argue that he only actually aged one day (or whatever the interval was) and that was all the time he spent in the castle, even if that one day repeated hundreds of billions of times.

Each iteration of the Doctor only died once – and the final one didn't die at all, so that's probably how the Time Dicks Lords would justify it.

The nature of the tower is weird.

So is the TARDIS, we're just more used to it, that's all. And no, it wasn't just sitting out in the sand, anymore than when the Doctor saved Gallifrey the planet was “just sitting” somewhere in the present universe. I suspect that the confession dial was outside regular space and time – we know the Time Lords have that level of magictech.

So, really, the Doctor was teleported into the Confession Dial, which might well have been delivered to Gallifrey by some means or other, or teleported itself to an outside-universe location, or... well, it's Time Lord technology, like a TARDIS.

The monster ... good concept but not once in the billions of encounters did the Doctor think of a physical attack against it? It turned out to be a bunch of cogs in a cloak and fell apart pretty easily at the end.

Except for the little detail that, apparently, touching the creature would result in severe burns and fatal damage. That does make it hard to physically attack it.

How was that painting of Clara so old if the tower reset itself? How come the damage to the wall wasn't reset?

The painting was entered into the castle as an old object, just as the flowers were present as a fresh-cut, and there was the loop involving the Doctor's clothes drying by the fire.

The Doctor talks to doors. And said "back when I was telepathic" ... so he's lost any trace of that ability now?

Different regenerations seem to have varying telepathic abilities. It could be his current one isn't very telepathic, which may also account for some of his social awkwardness.

I am curious, however, in the physics of the Doctor's escape. The wall to home was said to be considerably harder than diamond and twenty feet thick and the Doctor spent billions of years punching his way through it, wearing it down micron by micron. Is that even possible?

Have you seen the Grand Canyon? That only took a few million.

If one punch does excactly zero damage, then what would three billion punches do?

“Hard” is not the same thing as “invulnerable”. Perhaps, indeed, billions of years of eroding just a few atoms from each punch would do it.

Anyhow, the rules in the Confesion Dial aren't exactly the same as the ones in the real world, are they?

Maybe the Timelords just wanted to see hum suffer a bit (well, a lot)? After all, he almost used the Moment on them (or used it the first time around and chose to retcon it the 2nd, depending on your PoV). He stopped the Time Lord Council from ripping apart the Time Vortex and ascending in godhood, and I could see Rassilion wanting to punish him for it. Plus the Doctor shuffled them into a bottle-universe for who knows how long from their perspective, and refused to bring them back through the crack in the universe (both of which was for their own good, but they wouldn't really know that). They (or someone else) could even be punishing him for his various crimes over the years. Remember that by the end of the Time War the Doctor already had committed more crimes and had more blood on his hands than anyone else in history, and that was before using the Moment! Sure, the Time Lords gave him a new regeneration cycle because at the end of the day he's needed, but they have no reason to like him. The Time Lords were never known for being good guys, and by the end of the Time War they were considered as bad as the Daleks. At this point "sadists" is probably too kind a term to describe some of them.

^ All of this.

Also, remember the Time Lords are aliens – they are, in general, more like the Master/Missy than the Doctor.

Interesting start, but it got really strange and creepy as it went on.

I think that was sort of the point.

And I am so, so tired of Moffat having vast periods of time pass by off-camera.

On the other hand, it sort of was important to this particular story.

Still, seeing the Doctor finally break through the wall was pretty cool.

I kept thinking how goddamned STUBBORN! At the end of each cycle realizing anew that the only way out is to punch a nigh-impenetrable wall until you erode the fucking thing... and to keep doing it, over and over... Granted, the guy on the last cycle only experiences one day of it, but all the others punch it, knowing they can't get through, get mortally injured, drag their asses up to the teleport room, and kill themselves to give the next iteration a chance to punch a few more atoms off that goddamned wall.

But now we're going to forever have people arguing over weather the Doctor is the real Doctor or just a duplicate.

If the Doctor is a duplicate then ANYONE who has gone through a teleport is “just” a duplicate.

Not to mention the whole hybrid thing.

People have been arguing about that since 1996.

Still, Gallifrey's back. It wasn't really a surprise to me. What's a surprise is that the Doctor didn't figure it out sooner.

Well, he was having a bad day.... several billion times over.

The monster ... good concept but not once in the billions of encounters did the Doctor think of a physical attack against it?

That depends; what kind of Groundhog Day loop was this? Did the Doctor remember anything from one loop to the next, or did he work everything out from the beginning every time?

I think he had to figure everything out each time. No carry-over memories because each time the teleporter made an iteration it was working from the same saved template, which was only current to the first time he stepped out of the machine.

I did have to laugh at that "Time Lords take a long time to die" line, though. The series is chock full of Time Lords dying really, really quickly.

Except, of course, for when they regenerate, or stagger on as a crispy corpse until they can steal a new body, or... Actually, they're pretty tough sons of bitches, or they can be. There's also the issue of subjective time – clearly, the Doctor can immensely slow down his perception of time passing. Do that just before you check out, yeah, you take a long time to die, at least from your viewpoint.

But, boy, howdy, did that episode have some genuine nightmare fuel in it!

Rasillon would be my vote for Big Bad, but we'll find out next week.

[Parallax]

That guy looked familiar. I know I'm most likely wrong but the old guy with the staff looks a great deal like one of the incarnations of Borusa - former Time Lord bigshot who ended up being turned into a statue in Rassilon's Tomb (The Five Doctors).

[Parallax]

No, it's his Confession Dial. I figured that out the second time the castle started moving. Leave it to the Time Lords to have a mechanism for extracting one's last will and testament, willing or no.

I was referring to his habit of placing himself in a mental construct of the TARDIS when working things out, much like Sherlock or Hannibal in their respective series.

[Mad]

How can the Confession Dial reliably extract confessions if it has a huge chance of killling the subject before he knows what the game is? The Doctor accidentally offered up a confession the first time.

[jwl]

Why are people saying the doctor only spent a day between teleporting in and dying? He talks about a daily routine of eating and sleeping, and took a day and a half to get from the wall back to the teleport room.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I did have to laugh at that "Time Lords take a long time to die" line, though. The series is chock full of Time Lords dying really, really quickly.

In fairness (as Broomstick noticed) we do see a lot of stubbornly-alive Time Lords too. Most of the cases where Time Lords died "quickly" it was when killed by Time Lord weapons (or Dalek weapons), which are presumably designed to kill Time Lords quickly and effectively.

[jwl]

I think the implication with "time lords take a long time to die" is that they often look dead when they are not. That's why they don't bury time lords immediately. Also, the reason given for it is that the cells attempt to regenerate even when they can't, but we see from the last of the time lords there is a manual override for this.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Indeed.

Incidentally, a random thing just popped up on my facebook wall, a "secret" recording of part of the script read-through for this episode. It occurred to me that that session must have been really lonely for Capaldi

[jwl]

I think Jenna Coleman said she thought that the zygon episode was sort of lonely for her (when she was talking to herself in the stasis pod), so yeah.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yeah but that was only some of the episode, with the exception of that oen scene with imaginary-Clara and the kid at the end, Capaldi was talking to himself for an hour. Kudos to him for making it through the rehearsals with his sanity intact.

[Broomstick]

No, it's his Confession Dial. I figured that out the second time the castle started moving. Leave it to the Time Lords to have a mechanism for extracting one's last will and testament, willing or no.

I was referring to his habit of placing himself in a mental construct of the TARDIS when working things out, much like Sherlock or Hannibal in their respective series.

Oh, that – yes, “mind palace” and “mind TARDIS”. It does make some sense, though – if the Doctor can be said to have any sort of home it's the TARDIS. I suspect, thought, that the mind TARDIS is just the control room rather than something more extensive. The mind palaces in the other shows seem to be rambling places.

It's far from the worst dramatic trick to be repeated.

How can the Confession Dial reliably extract confessions if it has a huge chance of killling the subject before he knows what the game is? The Doctor accidentally offered up a confession the first time.

The use of the subject's worst fears probably makes confessing statistically more likely than not, and the Veil could have some sort of AI to moderate how it affects the subject and judge how well the subject knows the “game”. It might work better on more typical Time Lords who don't spend lifetimes taking huge risks and running through regenerations.

Why are people saying the doctor only spent a day between teleporting in and dying? He talks about a daily routine of eating and sleeping, and took a day and a half to get from the wall back to the teleport room.

Good point.

Maybe people deep down kind of hope each cycle only takes a day instead of, say, a week being pursued by a killer monster?

[Iroscato]

I must admit, the whole Mind TARDIS concept was rather ruthlessly recycled from Sherlock - right down to it kicking in just before the point of death for the character(s). But it's a really nifty concept, so I'm willing to let it slide for the excellent episode in which it was utilised

[Prometheus Unbound]

I'll be honest - i turned off this episode to watch something else. Didn't really get what was going on. Like.. at all.

Maybe I'll re-watch but I don't get how this came from last week. Made no sense to me.

I only had half an eye on it, I was playing world of tanks at the time, that may explain it.



But since when could he talk to doors?

[Iroscato]

I'll be honest - i turned off this episode to watch something else. Didn't really get what was going on. Like.. at all.

Maybe I'll re-watch but I don't get how this came from last week. Made no sense to me.

I only had half an eye on it, I was playing world of tanks at the time, that may explain it.



But since when could he talk to doors?

I interpreted it as a form of low-level telekinesis. Perhaps this regeneration, he swapped it up from telepathy, seeing as he mentioned he 'used' to be telepathic.

[Prometheus Unbound]

maybe.

But then that silly Master episode with the pogos or whatever had the doctor suddenly develop magic powers and the ability to fly and be like a Jedi/Sith because everyone answered teir voicemail at the same time (or something. no, I don't care lol). So.. sure. Why not?

Tho it does make me wonder about that time he couldnt open a locked door with his sonic screw driver and when his companion commented, he said it had something like 700 settings and none of them worked on wood.

[Iroscato]

maybe.

But then that silly Master episode with the pogos or whatever had the doctor suddenly develop magic powers and the ability to fly and be like a Jedi/Sith because everyone answered teir voicemail at the same time (or something. no, I don't care lol). So.. sure. Why not?

*Eye twitch*
We do not speak of such things...

(Except it was actually The Master who developed the flying/energy blasts. Imma stop 'cause it's too painful to keep thinking about)

[Prometheus Unbound]

im sure i remember david tennant levitating and doing a "dramatic speech" whilst wind and lightning was all around him. A power he's never before hinted at and one we've not seen again. But like you, I try not to think about it so maybe it was the Master.

So sure, he can talk to doors. Why not? It's not the strangest thing in the show, not even in the top 50.

[Iroscato]

im sure i remember david tennant levitating and doing a "dramatic speech" whilst wind and lightning was all around him. A power he's never before hinted at and one we've not seen again. But like you, I try not to think about it so maybe it was the Master.

So sure, he can talk to doors. Why not? It's not the strangest thing in the show, not even in the top 50.

Ohhh...you're thinking of Last of the Time Lords, the series 3 finale. Forgotten all about that scene.

Now I think on it, the Tennant Master episodes seemed to focus an awful lot on either of them developing near godlike powers. Brrrr....

[Broomstick]

I think the implication with "time lords take a long time to die" is that they often look dead when they are not.

Honestly, even terrestrial critters can take a surprisingly long time to die, and can look dead even when not quite there yet. People don't realize that because these days most folks in First World countries probably haven't actually been present at the death of a fellow human being. Instant death is extremely rare, and a "quick" death, depending on how you might define it, isn't that common either.

Agonal breathing, for instance, can be downright creepy. You're sitting there and someone hasn't breathed in a minute or two and suddenly they >gasp< and, no, they're not quite dead. They look dead, their body temperature is dropping, they aren't moving, their skin is getting that pale waxy look, maybe their pupils are dilated, you're pretty sure this is it and - no, there they go again! I've heard that the body can try for a breath or two even after the heart stops.

The human body doesn't die instantly - that's sort of why organ transplants can work, the brain and maybe other bits are dead/destroyed but this or that organ is still "viable", meaning the cells are alive and functioning. The accident victim is dead, his liver is not. Or it can work the other way around, with various bits experiencing cell death with things like the brain holding out for awhile.

In reality people don't die instantly, at least not normally. That's why a lot of cultures have "wakes" - you don't want to bury or cremate someone too soon, sometimes they only seem dead and they'll recover. With modern medical technology that window for potential recovery can sometimes be extended - people "frozen to death" being one example. You aren't dead until you're warm and dead. People have been brought back from extremely hypothermic states where they lack breathing and heartbeat for extended periods that would otherwise be fatal.

So it's not that much of a stretch that the much more technologically advanced Time Lords, who may have also tweaked their genome at some point and may or may not use nanotech, and who definitely have that funky regeneration thing, would be more durable and that their durability might not always be a good thing if it extends dying.

[jwl]

I think the implication with "time lords take a long time to die" is that they often look dead when they are not.

Honestly, even terrestrial critters can take a surprisingly long time to die, and can look dead even when not quite there yet. People don't realize that because these days most folks in First World countries probably haven't actually been present at the death of a fellow human being. Instant death is extremely rare, and a "quick" death, depending on how you might define it, isn't that common either.

Agonal breathing, for instance, can be downright creepy. You're sitting there and someone hasn't breathed in a minute or two and suddenly they >gasp< and, no, they're not quite dead. They look dead, their body temperature is dropping, they aren't moving, their skin is getting that pale waxy look, maybe their pupils are dilated, you're pretty sure this is it and - no, there they go again! I've heard that the body can try for a breath or two even after the heart stops.

The human body doesn't die instantly - that's sort of why organ transplants can work, the brain and maybe other bits are dead/destroyed but this or that organ is still "viable", meaning the cells are alive and functioning. The accident victim is dead, his liver is not. Or it can work the other way around, with various bits experiencing cell death with things like the brain holding out for awhile.

In reality people don't die instantly, at least not normally. That's why a lot of cultures have "wakes" - you don't want to bury or cremate someone too soon, sometimes they only seem dead and they'll recover. With modern medical technology that window for potential recovery can sometimes be extended - people "frozen to death" being one example. You aren't dead until you're warm and dead. People have been brought back from extremely hypothermic states where they lack breathing and heartbeat for extended periods that would otherwise be fatal.

So it's not that much of a stretch that the much more technologically advanced Time Lords, who may have also tweaked their genome at some point and may or may not use nanotech, and who definitely have that funky regeneration thing, would be more durable and that their durability might not always be a good thing if it extends dying.

Of course the situation is somewhat different with time lords because they will have presumably been declared dead by galliferyan medical professionals and they will still be unsure enough about their death to avoid burying them.

Also, hasn't it been possible for people to be revived from severe hypothermia for quite a long time?

[Broomstick]

There have been tales of spontaneous recoveries from various "certain death" scenarios throughout history.

Yes, revival from severe hypothermia has been a thing for awhile, but the more we learn about the human body and how it reacts and functions the more extreme the saves get, and the more deliberate, and the better the recoveries.

[Prometheus Unbound]

ok just re-watched it whilst concentrating on it.

I liked it, it did make sense. Doc punched that hole in between dimensions, that's pretty... hardcore. Tho it did take several billion years.

[Batman]

Am I required to know what a 'Confession Dial' is? Not saying it hasn't popped up but I certainly don't remember it from nuWho.
The episode was massively confusing I think they way overdid the repeats in the final 'endless cycle' sequence. Yes, the Doctor has done this a lot of times. We got that after the first 3 Iterations.
'Meh' Episode at best. The-admittedly present-creepy factor would have worked a lot better if there had been anybody besides the Doctor that could actually potentially die. When you know the lone protagonist is inevitably going to make it it becomes a lot less creepy.

As for the starscape looking wrong-all the Doctor knows is that he's no more than a lightyear from Earth (and really, for Who, that doesn't really sound all that ultra long range. Nobody batted an eye at the secondary transmat on Satellite 65 (or whatever) zipping people to the edge of the solar system in the s1 finale).
Am I really supposed to believe the Doctor is so familiar with the skies he'd immediately notice something's wrong when his known position is somewhere in a 2 lightyear diameter sphere and he doesn't even know in which direction he's looking?

[Broomstick]

Am I required to know what a 'Confession Dial' is? Not saying it hasn't popped up but I certainly don't remember it from nuWho.

The confession dial showed up in the first episode of this season, but what exactly it is was not revealed until now. Basically, we know there was a thing called a confession dial, but not what one was.

As for the starscape looking wrong-all the Doctor knows is that he's no more than a lightyear from Earth (and really, for Who, that doesn't really sound all that ultra long range. Nobody batted an eye at the secondary transmat on Satellite 65 (or whatever) zipping people to the edge of the solar system in the s1 finale).
Am I really supposed to believe the Doctor is so familiar with the skies he'd immediately notice something's wrong when his known position is somewhere in a 2 lightyear diameter sphere and he doesn't even know in which direction he's looking?

A lightyear won't even take you a quarter of the way to the nearest neighboring star, the constellations won't be that different. It was more the time factor, how they change over time, that became a plot point. We have computer programs now that can extrapolate how the skies appeared in the past or will appear in the future, Gallifrey magictech with actual time travel added in should be able to do even better. Add in that the Doctor has been all up and down Earth's timeline and he statements don't seem so implausible.

Except for why the pocket universe in the confession dial would have Earth constellations, that was never explained.