http:// boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=10755132&start=11018036Darth Brooks wrote:EnforcerSG,
"What about those who are looking for evidence?"
There's already enough evidence to bring you before the Lord. He told us how to find Him. People make it more difficult than it has to be. It simply starts with a true and earnest desire. Look for His face, not His hand. Would you want people to care for only what you can do for them, or do you desire people like, respect, and love you for who you actually are? It's the same with the Lord. He will not be used by people. He's not a genie or a witch or a fairy tale.
You won't find the Lord by seeing how far down you can kneel, or how many times you flagellate yourself, or if you're looking for some powerful tyrant. You wouldn't be looking for the right Lord. Part of the difficulty in many people seeking God is that they're searching for some ostentatious and pompous caricature. They are looking for this thundering monster performing gratuitous special f/x all over creation.
The Lord is humble and gentle, not ostentatious. God is not an ego-maniac, despite the fact He has every right to be. God chooses mangers, not castles. That's His prerogative, and through it's exercise we come to know the Lord.
"Also, if you have proof, then wouldn't you know instead of believe?"
Yes, I know, but that doesn't preclude 'belief,' because you 'know' strengthens your belief and faith, not reduces it. I believe that's what you were getting at, is that you apparently believe blind faith is some sort of prerequisite, and it isn't. God doesn't ask us to believe, or put faith in Him blindly. You have faith in your loved ones precisely because you know them, not because you've never encountered them. You couldn't have faith in someone or something you knew absolutely nothing about. There has to be a basis for trust.
My faith in God is in areas of assurance, but life itself is an unknown, and so I rely upon what I know of God, the Lord, and I have to trust Him from there out. That is difficult at times. And plenty of times of looked up to ask, "where are you, Lord? Don't you see what happened?" I have to trust and it's not always easy. But that's part of the growing process and a mark of how far from God I truly am, because to know Him fully would be to never blemish His name with my doubts.
"If there is evidence, present and explain it."
I am the evidence. Should I have a pair of angelicly manufactured sunglasses? I'm being flippant in a friendly way. The very best evidence is people. As it should be. God doesn't want people worshipping relics or material objects, those only get in the way. People. That's a hallmark of His true love.
"If it is just a feeling or personal experience, then why should I believe?"
Because I say so. I've no reason to lie. What good would it do me? What's my motivation? If I'm lying about my hope, then it is no real hope, and that defeats my purpose, makes it a lie, and that's of no good to anyone, especially myself. Look into your heart. It'll let you know I'm telling the truth.
"If you have witnessed a miracle and I have not, the best I can do is say that I do not know."
Okay. That's fair. It's also fair to say you've never seen the sub-atomic world, but you believe on the word of others it exists. We could go through numerous examples like this. On my word I assure you God is real, and in His presence you'll find everything else in comparison seems artificial. The very essence of reality comes from God, so nothing seems more real than the Lord.
"That is not true of everyone by far."
No one said it was true of "everyone."
"Problem is with God, there are too many things I would have to take blindly depending on what religion I would take. Why is God perfectly good?"
Why shouldn't God be perfectly and transcendentally good? And His goodness, His Holiness, is the mark of His perfection. Think about people you know, that you regard as truly good, kind, and compassionate. Why don't you expect the Lord to be moreso?
"When some people have some experience to convince them, why can't I have that same curtsy, or be punished for not having it?"
God doesn't punish people on what they don't know, people are accountable for what they do know. And, I strongly suspect, we are our own judges in the light of God. We will face ourselves, in total honesty. We know when we do wrong, that which to us is wrong. We are all hypocrites and deep down we know it, in the sense that everyone has done something they knew was wrong and did it anyway.
"Is He still perfectly good? How did he make the universe? And relevant to this debate, how did/does He do miracles?"
He's God. We cannot understand such transcendental omnipotence. How has God always been? What came before? How can we understand nothing was before Him? We can't. Even of there is no God, how can we understand a universe that simply always existed? We can't. We can mouth the words, but ultimately we cannot, and it doesn't make sense from what we observe of the mechanics of nature.
"Do things just happen, or does God not care if you pray, or is there some sort of force, or what?"
Certainly, God cares if you pray, and prayer is an act bringing you into God's presence, bringing you into agreement, but also conforming you into the image of God. Prayer is not supposed to be superficial, and it's not merely a wish list.
Take confession, "forgive us our trespasses," it is intended not so that you simply tell God what you did, or if you're remorseful, the Lord already knows that, it's not done for Him, it's for you, your introspection and self-examination, your understanding, your character.
It's for your benefit. Totally. And He'll help you with it, which is His joy. When you begin to understand that the Lord is always acting for our best interest, you'll begin to perceive who He is, what he's like. You'll begin to find the love you lost, need, and have been wanting to find. The evidence is already in your heart. Look inside.
You wish to please God because of your love for Him, in coming to know Him, just as for your loved ones you desire and take pleasure in doing good things to and for them. Prayer is conversation with God, and it can take many forms, and it shouldn't be drudgery but a conversation with your best friend. That attitude.
If you want a prayer answered, fulfilled, it has to be in God's will, not borne of the selfish desires of men. To be in God's will it has to be in trust and faith in God's judgment, either express or permissive. I've some prayers that were literally answered before I could finish them, and others to which apparently the answer was no. And recognizing our own motives explains quite a bit in the process. Part of it is in asking yourself what God would do to the best of your understanding, and joining yourself in His will, which is being enacted. When you begin to will as the Lord wills, it's bringing you into communion with Him, making you into a child of God. It is of itself it's own reward, and you will come to see the Lord's hand in action, because you know Him. It's all about love, and if it weren't, we wouldn't be here.
You can believe me, or disbelieve me. I hope you'll choose to believe me. There was time I doubted the Lord's existence, like yourself wondered where the miracles were? It only makes sense, we here these Bible stories, think if God acted that way then, why wouldn't he now? Where is someone who's seen those miracles? Why don't I know anyone who's seen those things? Why can't I?
I asked those questions as well. I'm on the otherside of the fence now.
It turns out I did know people who'd seen miracles, but in the words of one, "I couldn't tell you because you would have laughed." That was from a very, very close friend. One of my best friends. Isn't that sad?
But that's were I was at. Thankfully, that's not where I stayed. That's each individual's choice.
Every day I wonder why I still post at TF.net...every day...
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, N(
