Chechnya: case closed

[K. A. Pital]

Those who said "Chechyens want to be independent" must have missed latest news, unless they were referring to terrorists.
The referendum conclusions are quite the opposite to "Chechyens want independence". The referendum proved that "the people of Chechya showed undoubtedly that they want to be a part of the united, monolite Russia. Those who have not laid down their arms are fighting not only against the Federation, but against their own folk" (quote president Putin).
So I suggest Chechnya case for rebellion is closed: it was a terrorist rebellion on a country's territory and it was subdued for the will of the people.

This is enough for Chechnya.

[Montcalm]

And how long before you retake control of Ukraine

[Vympel]

There was never much doubt that the majority of Chechens were against the independence movement from the start- not only is there a big pro-Russia Chechen demographic that cooperates with Russian forces and provides the majority of the police in the area, but the situation is made even more dire for the rebels because a lot of them aren't even Chechens- they're Arabs with delusions of Jihad- see for example Khattab, who the FSB assassinated last year.

[K. A. Pital]

Man, you are crazy. There's a huge difference between attacking a terrorist rebellion within the country and attacking a sovereign independent state.
BTW, we have a cause to attack Ukraine. They shot down a Tu-154 over the Black Sea by a AA missile, killing 130 civilians, who were children coming back from holidays, it was about a year ago. See?

[Sea Skimmer]

The whole movement probably would have disintegrated in 1995-6 if it wasn’t for a steady stream of thousands of foreign volunteers pouring in.

[Sea Skimmer]

Man, you are crazy. There's a huge difference between attacking a terrorist rebellion within the country and attacking a sovereign independent state.
BTW, we have a cause to attack Ukraine. They shot down a Tu-154 over the Black Sea by a AA missile, killing 130 civilians, who were children coming back from holidays, it was about a year ago. See?

Which was an accident. not much cause for war, and such mistakes are not unknown for Russia. The Soviet Union had quite a few civilian aircraft accidentally shot down in exercises.

[Montcalm]

Man, you are crazy. There's a huge difference between attacking a terrorist rebellion within the country and attacking a sovereign independent state.
BTW, we have a cause to attack Ukraine. They shot down a Tu-154 over the Black Sea by a AA missile, killing 130 civilians, who were children coming back from holidays, it was about a year ago. See?

Which was an accident. not much cause for war, and such mistakes are not unknown for Russia. The Soviet Union had quite a few civilian aircraft accidentally shot down in exercises.

Good point remember the Korean air line incident.

[K. A. Pital]

Actually I meant exactly the same. If we attack everyone for some small bullshit, we'll end up in WWIII.

[Vympel]

Which was an accident. not much cause for war, and such mistakes are not unknown for Russia. The Soviet Union had quite a few civilian aircraft accidentally shot down in exercises.

Good point remember the Korean air line incident. [/quote]

In truth, that was a real intercept by an Su-15 FLAGON, rather than an exercise. The aircraft didn't listen to orders- gross incompetence by the doomed Korean airliner.

[Montcalm]

Which was an accident. not much cause for war, and such mistakes are not unknown for Russia. The Soviet Union had quite a few civilian aircraft accidentally shot down in exercises.

Good point remember the Korean air line incident.

In truth, that was a real intercept by an Su-15 FLAGON, rather than an exercise. The aircraft didn't listen to orders- gross incompetence by the doomed Korean airliner.[/quote]There were rumors that an American spy plane used it as cover

[Vympel]

There were rumors that an American spy plane used it as cover

If so, then the pilot didn't tell Carey Schofield in her book Inside the Soviet Army.

I'll post that if anyone's interested?

[K. A. Pital]

Vympel
Yeah, that too. But still we can't brag much about that. Even in wartime murdering civilians is not a good thing, and not in war time it's ever closer to crime.

[Col. Crackpot]

bull fucking shit. If California were to ceed from the Union today, we wouldn't napalm Sacramento or Los Angeles like Russia did to Grozny.

[Vympel]

Vympel
Yeah, that too. But still we can't brag much about that. Even in wartime murdering civilians is not a good thing, and not in war time it's ever closer to crime.

I never said anything about it being good- I don't advocate murder of civvies.

[K. A. Pital]

Col. Crackpot
What the hell? I'm sure you would employ the best "point bombardment" to kill the terrorist fucker who's leading the rebels. And after that - deployed huge forces in that area. It's the way strong countries behave, there's little that can be done about that.
And I wonder: if the people of this state were unwilling to rebel, but a bunch of terrorists sceized power, will you also do nothing? Unlikely.

[Vympel]

bull fucking shit. If California were to ceed from the Union today, we wouldn't napalm Sacramento or Los Angeles like Russia did to Grozny.

Odd- you did something of the sort during the Civil War. How would *you* propose that you take a city held by hostile forces trying to secede? Ask them nicely to come out? It happened in Stalingrad, it happened in Berlin, and other cities throughout history. All out urban warfare is hell on earth, especially where the majority of your men are ill-trained conscripts and your officers are morons (hello 94-96 Chechen War).

[K. A. Pital]

Vympel
Civil War has it's own methods. I wonder why no one remembers that Alpha killed Hattab.

[fgalkin]

Actually I meant exactly the same. If we attack everyone for some small bullshit, we'll end up in WWIII.

Although I wouldn't mind Ukraine being retaken.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Ted]

Man, you are crazy. There's a huge difference between attacking a terrorist rebellion within the country and attacking a sovereign independent state.
BTW, we have a cause to attack Ukraine. They shot down a Tu-154 over the Black Sea by a AA missile, killing 130 civilians, who were children coming back from holidays, it was about a year ago. See?

Which was an accident. not much cause for war, and such mistakes are not unknown for Russia. The Soviet Union had quite a few civilian aircraft accidentally shot down in exercises.

Yeah, if it was cassus belli, then Iran would have a legit reason to attack the US, Iranian Airbus shot down by the Vincennes (?) in the Iran-Iraq War.

[MKSheppard]

Funny, I saw a picture in my paper that had Russian troops lining
up to VOTE...in Chechenya

this reminds me of a story from the War Between the States, in
which the Union captured a Confederate state capital and immediately
had all the union soldiers crowd into the state capital to vote on whether
to readmit the state to the union, and all the soldiers said "yea!" and
thusly was a state readmitted to the union

[The Dark]

There were rumors that an American spy plane used it as cover

If so, then the pilot didn't tell Carey Schofield in her book Inside the Soviet Army.

I'll post that if anyone's interested?

There had been an American ELINT plane that crossed the Korean liner's flight path a few hours before the airplane went into Russian airspace. If y'all are willing to wait a few hours, I can get a copy of the air traffic at that time and post it.

[Vympel]

Funny, I saw a picture in my paper that had Russian troops lining
up to VOTE...in Chechenya

Or Chechen police officers.