President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... ry-muslims
The president of Liberty University urged students, staff and faculty at the Christian school to carry concealed weapons on campus to counter any possible armed attack like the mass shooting in San Bernardino, California.

“Let’s teach them a lesson if they ever show up here,” President Jerry Falwell Jr told an estimated 10,000 students at the weekly convocation held on Friday in Lynchburg.

The call-to-arms was met with rousing applause from students, but some said Falwell went too far when he appeared to be referring specifically to Muslims, the News & Advance reported.

“I’ve always thought if more good people had concealed carry permits, then we could end those Muslims before they walked in,” Falwell said. The final words of his statement could not be clearly heard on a videotape of the remarks.

Questioned by a student on social media, Falwell said he was referring to Islamic terrorists. “I was referring to ‘those Muslims’ that just carried out attacks in Paris and California,” he said in response on Twitter.

Reached later by the newspaper, Falwell said, “There are many good Muslims, many good, moderate Muslims.”

Falwell told the Associated Press on Saturday he was specifically referring to Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik, the husband and wife who shot and killed 14 people at a holiday party in San Bernardino on Wednesday.

In his call to arms, Falwell encouraged students to take a free class offered by campus police to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

Falwell’s message is apparently being heeded. He said more than 100 people had asked Liberty police about a free class to obtain a permit to carry a concealed weapon. More than 14,000 students are enrolled at Liberty.

Following the San Bernardino shootings, which left 14 dead, Falwell said he began carrying a .25-caliber handgun in his back pocket. He said he’s had a permit for more than year. During his address Friday, Falwell mentioned the weapon and reached around seemingly to fetch it.

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“Is it illegal to pull it out? I don’t know,” he said, laughing, drawing some hoots from the audience.

Asked if he was concerned by the prospect of thousands of armed young people on campus, Falwell said Virginia has a minimum age of 21 for a concealed-carry permit. He said that meant only older students would be armed.

Falwell also said he believed the campus needed to be prepared in the face of the increasing frequency of mass killings. He cited, for example, the 2007 massacre of 32 people at Virginia Tech, the deadliest mass shooting in modern US history, which took place less than 100 miles south-west of Liberty.

“What if just one of those students or one of those faculty members had a concealed permit and was carrying a weapon when the shooter walked into Virginia Tech? Countless lives could have been saved,” he said.

Falwell said he had also reached out to a first responder in San Bernardino to see if the school could offer scholarships to his children.

Unlike his late father, the Rev Jerry Falwell, the younger Falwell has been a low-key leader at Liberty. His father’s barbed statements on contemporary issues made him a reviled figure to some and a pioneering conservative crusader to others.

“That’s not my thing,” Falwell said in an interview with the AP earlier this year at Liberty, which was founded by his father.

Students are required to attend the weekly convocations, although they may skip one convocation per term for personal reasons. Democratic presidential contender Bernie Sanders held a campaign event at the university in September.
Yeah, he tries to add a different context too it later, but did he not realize how it sounds? And if so, what does that say about his leanings?

So... bigoted idiot, or pro-genocide and too cowardly to even stand by what he really thinks, as repulsive as it is?
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by Ralin »

It's dumb and offensive, but I really doubt he meant anything other than what he said when he answered those follow up questions. He probably genuinely meant it as an anti mass shooter statement, who in his mind are often but not always Muslims.

Christian fundies packing concealed weapons on their own fundie school campus is pretty low on the list of things they can do that worry me, honestly.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Whatever he meant, who's to say some of his supporters won't hear that and take it as an endorsement to engage in murderous violence against Muslims?

It was at best a stupid, dangerous, and irresponsible comment.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by Raw Shark »

I love how he talks about 21-year-old students as though they're not mostly a pack of volatile drunks. Sure, less dangerous than 18-year-old drunks, but I'd wager that the average attendee at Liberty University has a much better chance of being lit up by a classmate over a girl or some shit than by a radical Muslim for political reasons.

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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by Ralin »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Whatever he meant, who's to say some of his supporters won't hear that and take it as an endorsement to engage in murderous violence against Muslims?

It was at best a stupid, dangerous, and irresponsible comment.
No arguing that it was dumb, but I doubt it made anyone inclined to take him seriously more inclined to violence against Muslims or people who might be Muslim than they already are.

How many Muslims are likely to be on or near goddamn Liberty University anyway?
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Whatever he meant, who's to say some of his supporters won't hear that and take it as an endorsement to engage in murderous violence against Muslims?

It was at best a stupid, dangerous, and irresponsible comment.
It's Liberty University. That they promulgate a toxic and evil world-view is not news. The former president of the university (and the father of the current moron-in-chief) said that America deserved the 9/11 attacks because it is full of "pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians, and the ACLU".

That school has been teaching that Muslims are "satanic" and evil for years.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Liberty "university" would be banned in almost all European countries if it were not situated in the USA. That they can call themselves a university is a travesty.

In other words, this is expected behavior for them.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Ziggy Stardust wrote: It's Liberty University. That they promulgate a toxic and evil world-view is not news. The former president of the university (and the father of the current moron-in-chief) said that America deserved the 9/11 attacks because it is full of "pagans, abortionists, feminists, gays and lesbians, and the ACLU".

That school has been teaching that Muslims are "satanic" and evil for years.
Yeah, let me emphasize the 'more than they already are' bit of what I said. With many other people I would probably find this outrageous. Here I'm just vaguely glad he clarified that he just meant the bad Muslims instead of doubling down.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Every muslim is bad for them.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Really, anyone who isn't their variety of Christian is bad or "satanic", including Catholics. They're towards the Taliban end of American religious nuttery.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by Elheru Aran »

Broomstick wrote:Really, anyone who isn't their variety of Christian is bad or "satanic", including Catholics. They're towards the Taliban end of American religious nuttery.
It really does say something that a number of Republican candidates have deliberately chosen to speak there, haven't they?
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Broomstick wrote:Really, anyone who isn't their variety of Christian is bad or "satanic", including Catholics. They're towards the Taliban end of American religious nuttery.
Really? How many people have they killed? Thousands? Hundreds? Five?
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by Broomstick »

I said "leaning towards", not "congruent with".

American Christians have killed over religious reasons, all the way back to the Salem Witch Trials. Fortunately, it's not terribly common but it's not unknown.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Elheru Aran wrote:
Broomstick wrote:Really, anyone who isn't their variety of Christian is bad or "satanic", including Catholics. They're towards the Taliban end of American religious nuttery.
It really does say something that a number of Republican candidates have deliberately chosen to speak there, haven't they?
What does it say that Bernie Sanders did too?

I mean, I'm always ready for some Republican bashing, but come on. Its a big audience. Of course politicians speak their.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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It says Sanders has the balls to go and speak publicly somewhere he's not guaranteed a somewhat sympathetic audience.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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I do admire Sanders' willingness to challenge the Right on its own ground rather than just playing to the base like the Right tends to do. Its part of why I think he's electable, socialist or not.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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The reason Sander's appearance was news worthy was because the left are the ones who stay in their safe zone. Republicans very often attend NAACP events for example despite the near universally hostile audience. Can you name a single time Hillary has done that?
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Hillary Clinton is hardly representative as the Left as a whole, much as I'm sure she and her supporters would like to pretend she is. If anything, she's a centrist candidate pretending to be Left wing, with Sanders representing the actual Left. But this is getting off-topic, I fear.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Thanas wrote:Every muslim is bad for them.
How nice that their president just said there are many good Muslims then!

Seriously though, he doesn't really have any reason to lie. So I figure it's a mild positive, by the very low expectations I have for these people
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Ralin wrote:
Thanas wrote:Every muslim is bad for them.
How nice that their president just said there are many good Muslims then!
Call me back when they allow interfaith marriage and have muslim students then.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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The Romulan Republic wrote:I do admire Sanders' willingness to challenge the Right on its own ground rather than just playing to the base like the Right tends to do. Its part of why I think he's electable, socialist or not.
A lot of Sanders' views actually make sense to the Right from a pragmatic point of view; it's just a matter of getting them to listen to a Jewish hippie who is not Jesus. A healthy society is a productive society that benefits job-creators. Single Payer healthcare supported by taxes removes the burden of paying for part of employee healthcare from employers. This shit isn't partisan; it's reality.

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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Raw Shark wrote:Single Payer healthcare supported by taxes removes the burden of paying for part of employee healthcare from employers. This shit isn't partisan; it's reality.
That is not logic that works for appealing to the right. They want employers to do that if they so choose as a labor market choice, and the alternative is for them not to but have to otherwise compensate that value via higher wages with which the individual pays for it. Numero uno, however, is to have the government do nothing for which there is an efficient market solution. That means no single payer from an efficiency point of view. You may be able to make an equity argument from the right however, which is basically and ends (more even availability) justifies the means (intrusive rights stomping government) which is why you won't find many who say Medicare/Medicaid should be outright dissolved but rather reduced in scope.

Both sided, left and right, tend to let equity or efficiency play more of a roll at the logical conclusions of their overall economic ideology (the right to avoid anarchy, the left to avoid an entirely centrally planned economy).
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Patroklos wrote:
Raw Shark wrote:Single Payer healthcare supported by taxes removes the burden of paying for part of employee healthcare from employers. This shit isn't partisan; it's reality.
That is not logic that works for appealing to the right. They want employers to do that if they so choose as a labor market choice, and the alternative is for them not to but have to otherwise compensate that value via higher wages with which the individual pays for it. Numero uno, however, is to have the government do nothing for which there is an efficient market solution. That means no single payer from an efficiency point of view. You may be able to make an equity argument from the right however, which is basically and ends (more even availability) justifies the means (intrusive rights stomping government) which is why you won't find many who say Medicare/Medicaid should be outright dissolved but rather reduced in scope.

Both sided, left and right, tend to let equity or efficiency play more of a roll at the logical conclusions of their overall economic ideology (the right to avoid anarchy, the left to avoid an entirely centrally planned economy).
The "logic" of the right wing argument falls flat on its face in the harsh light of reality, because employers are not required to pay higher wages if they do not offer health care benefits and in a market where labor supply exceeds demand, there is nothing short of laws and regulations to force them to do it.

In short, it is just about as feasible and realistic an idea as the picture of communism where everybody works as hard as they can for the common good and receives back an equal sahre regardless of how much work they put in. None of them will just own up to it, which is why we get all the bullfuckery and idiotic rhetoric about the supposed superiority of the free market in health care and yada-yada. If they actually believed that shit, they would kill Medicaid, Medicare and all the rest, but even their voter base will not stand for that. Though they'd be quite happy to have it abolished for everyone else, those they think undeserving (minorities, immigrants etc etc).
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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Edi wrote: The "logic" of the right wing argument falls flat on its face in the harsh light of reality, because employers are not required to pay higher wages if they do not offer health care benefits and in a market where labor supply exceeds demand, there is nothing short of laws and regulations to force them to do it.
Which is still efficient, just not equitable. However current employees do value their health plans as compensation, and many employers could indeed cancel all or most of their health coverage if they wanted to and yet are not. The labor market speaks.
In short, it is just about as feasible and realistic an idea as the picture of communism where everybody works as hard as they can for the common good and receives back an equal sahre regardless of how much work they put in. None of them will just own up to it, which is why we get all the bullfuckery and idiotic rhetoric about the supposed superiority of the free market in health care and yada-yada. If they actually believed that shit, they would kill Medicaid, Medicare and all the rest, but even their voter base will not stand for that. Though they'd be quite happy to have it abolished for everyone else, those they think undeserving (minorities, immigrants etc etc).
Once again you make no distinction of efficiency and equity. As I stated above, neither side like the logical conclusion of either full efficiency or full equity. Well at least not enough of them to matter. That balance is the debate. The reality remains, however, that the market still provides the most efficient outcome and net benefit, you are simply not interested in maximum efficiency or net benefit. Neither is the right, you just disagree on where the slider sits.
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Re: President of Libery University supports concealed carry to "end those Muslims".

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"Efficiency" is just a word. Human well-being is much more that "efficiency". No adept of pure efficiency has been able to explain how can it be "efficient" to adjust incomes below subsistence.
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