Star Wars: Rebels

[Thanas]

Besides, Ahsoka was a poster child for ill-disciplined Jedi. Anakin gave her a very wide birth.

If I were to look for somebody to train a Jedi without being able to rely on the temple resources she would definitely not be a suitable candidate, because she has spent her entire professional life fighting. What does she know about Jedi doctrine that Obi-wan does not? Even more, she disowned the Jedi out of her own free will. Why would you turn to her at all?

And that is despite the obvious, which is that there is no evidence the rebels even knew of the plan to train Luke.

[Galvatron]

I'd turn to Ahsoka BECAUSE she disowned the order. They were broken and she wanted no part of their bullshit any more. That's the sort of Jedi that I'd consider ideal as an instructor during the dark times.

[Thanas]

The surviving Jedi most likely would not agree with you on that.

[Galvatron]

Of course. They were masters who actually sat on the council, but even they admitted in private that the order had an attitude problem.

[Andy Wylde]

Well the bottom line is that Obi Wan had first dibs on Luke anyway. It was all set up for Obi Wan to train Luke. Luke was the only hope of destroying the Sith. To have anyone less than a seasoned Jedi master train Luke would be absurd. And we also see how Luke was showing a lot of the same problems Anakin showed and Yoda was almost ready to not train him because it would have been another Anakin situation. So it would take a highly skilled master to work with Luke. And Yoda and Obi Wan have the new found knowledge on how to proceed with that special training to use with Luke. Asohka and Kanan do not have that knowledge and it wouldn't benefit Luke for the great task that he was being trained for.

But as I have mentioned before I don't think Asohka is looking to train anyone nor will she ever probably train anyone. She only seems interested in assisting the rebel cell she is currently working with. She just utilizes her Jedi abilities to help her with completing missions.

And Kanan doesn't seem too cracked up to be a teacher. But also look at what he has to work with. Ezra is pretty much the same way Anakin was in the PT. Reckless, arrogant, full of anger over his dead parents, has a crush on Sabine(and we all know how that turns out for force sensitive people)
But I don't think Kanan is a good teacher regardless of those facts. He definitely has much to learn himself.

[Galvatron]

I know we only saw glimpses of Luke's training on Dagobah, but I'm curious what special training you think he received from Yoda that Kanan or Ahsoka would have been incapable of giving him.

[Andy Wylde]

The training of controlling his emotions and that Obi Wan and Yoda have seen what training someone with emotional issues first hand. In ROTJ it was Luke's emotions that made the difference. It wasn't just a battle of sabers with Vader, but a battle of wills. Asohka and Kanan don't have any experience in this area.

As Vader said in ROTJ to Luke: Obi Wan has taught you well. Little does he know that Yoda played a part in that too. But if Kanan and Asohka provided training to Luke for saber combat that I think would be the only thing they could teach. Beyond that not much else. Obi Wan and Yoda had to pretty much push Luke into facing Vader. I don't think Kanan or Asohka could have done that with their limited knowledge. Asohka and Kanan do have limited knowledge of the force. This is were Obi Wan and Yoda are imperative to his training.

[Rogue 9]

Yes, but again that's not the point. Luke doesn't know there's a grand plan for him, at least not until he goes to Yoda to begin with. So even if Ahsoka would actively avoid training Luke (which isn't beyond the realm of possibility), there's no reason that Kanan would, barring complete failure with Ezra that puts him off of trying to train anyone else. So Kanan and Ezra have to be dead or at the very least have had something catastrophic happen that motivates them to stay away from Luke.

[Andy Wylde]

Luke may not know of a grand plan, but Obi Wan and Yoda are aware of it. And that is the reason why Obi Wan was just a hop, skip and jump away from Luke during his 19 years living there. Again I have no problem with anyone recommending that Asohka or Kanan train Luke. That is fine. But for me, I would want the best option available. Out of Asohka, Kanan, Obi Wan and Yoda I would go with the most experienced ones first being Yoda and Obi Wan. See we know Luke was a special case because his training wasn't only to become a Jedi but it was also the only hope of turning Vader back from the dark side to the light side. So Luke's training was indeed a special case and required the best teachers available at the time. With that said I don't think Kanan or Asohka should ever take the place of Yoda and Obi Wan when it comes to training any Jedi.

[RogueIce]

They've already (sort of) answered it in one of the Rebels Recon, when discussing the A-wings. Essentially they said this is a cell with A-wings, while the Rebel group with the X-wings and Y-wings (presumably Yavin) is another faction and they haven't linked up yet, possibly not until around the time of Endor. So Phoenix Squad may not even meet up with the group of Rebels Luke hooked up with until around the Battle of Endor...by which point Luke isn't looking for a teacher anymore. Assuming, of course, Kanan, Ezra and Ahsoka make it that far - or are at least formally affiliated with the Rebel Alliance still.

Sure, Bail Organa is affiliated with Phoenix Squad and the Yavin Rebels, but it's quite likely he's keeping them separate, especially as Leia herself is with the latter group. I don't think he'd risk putting Anakin's daughter anywhere near his former Padawan if he can help it. Plus, of course, the lack of A-wings at Yavin and Hoth.

Basically: there's no reason to believe the Rebels Ahsoka and Kanan are affiliated with are even in contact with the Rebels Luke later joins up with. Their paths may never cross for the majority of the OT. And when the Rebel Alliance comes together at Endor, it's a moot point as far as Luke needing a teacher.

[Lord Revan]

it wouldn't surprice me if the leadership of the Rebel Alliance intentionally had the cells keep as little contact with each other as possible after all it would mean if members of cell "x" got captured they wouldn't be able to reveal the location of cell "y" because they simply don't know that.

[Crazedwraith]

Well yes. That's sort of the entire point of a cell structured organisation?

[Lord Revan]

Well yes. That's sort of the entire point of a cell structured organisation?

true but all too often in the old EU I've seen the Rebel Alliance having been writen like it was a conventional army and not a collection of semi independent cells working for a common cause.

[Galvatron]

The new EU has Luke wandering the galaxy looking for anything he can get his hands on to learn about Jedi and the Force so he can train himself up and become more of a match for Vader.

Supposedly, three years elapsed between ANH and TESB, which brings me to my question: if Kanan, Ahsoka or even Ezra were still alive and active in the rebellion during that time, is there some reason that they couldn't or shouldn't have tried to help Luke? And why did it take Obi-wan so long to appear before Luke and tell him to go to Dagobah?

[Thanas]

Well, the old EU explained it by Luke spending most of that time helping the rebels find a new base, destroying a few Imperial shipyards etc. So I don't know how much time he really spent searching for stuff.

[Galvatron]

That old EU was inconsequential filler that had no idea what would happen in the sequels to ANH. The new EU can be a lot bolder so long as they don't outright contradict the movies. Although, there's still an outside chance that some pre-ROTJ EU story or plot element will contradict something that happens in one of the Disney-era films or TV shows.

Anyway, now we can actually see Luke make progress in his quest for knowledge so long as he ends up where he was in TESB. "But I've learned so much" and yet using the Force to pull his lightsaber out of the snow was a momentous feat for him. I'd like to see what he's learned (beyond whatever Ben was able to teach him three years earlier).

[Zixinus]

Well first off Obi Wan wasn't "pretending to be an old crazy uncle" Second is the rebellion knowing if Obi Wan is dead or not has no bearing on whether he knows where Luke is. Obi Wan is hiding out from the Empire while at the same time watching over Luke and waiting till the time is right to train him. Asohka wouldn't paly into any plans for Luke while Obi Wan and Yoda are still alive.

Here is your problem: you are assuming that there were plans made in advance. We see no hint of this, what we see is improvising to a new situation.

Hell, in fact, Obi-wan doesn't even keep in touch with Luke! Look at this dialogue from the script!

LUKE
I thought he might have meant old Ben. Do you know what he's talking about? Well, I wonder if he's related to Ben.

Owen breaks loose with a fit of uncontrolled anger.

OWEN
That old man's just a crazy old wizard. Tomorrow I want you to take that R2 unit into Anchorhead and
have its memory flushed. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now.

LUKE
But what if this Obi-Wan comes looking for him?

OWEN
He won't, I don't think he exists any more. He died about the same time as your father.

He clearly hasn't even met Obi-Wan, he only vaguely is aware where he even lives. This is an impression that carries on to their first meeting too. They don't speak as two people who have talked before, they speak as strangers.

If it was Obi-Wan's plan to train Luke, why didn't he do it earlier, against his step-parents's wishes? Or the very least would have kept in touch, be part of the family.
That was one of Anakin's problems, he was trained too old and by that point has accumulated all sorts of negative emotional baggage. This allowed the exact same problem to happen with Luke. Hell, if it wasn't for Treepio and R2-D2 stumbling their way to Luke's doorstep, Luke would have gone to the Imperial Academy! Surely something that Obi-Wan would have discouraged him from! When they do meet him, Luke nearly got brained by a Tusken raider! Obi-Wan wasn't even watching Luke or if he was, he sure as hell hadn't shown any sign of it!

Furthermore, if he had any sort of plan he would have had a spacecraft ready to take off Tatooine (maybe the one he arrived in?), or at least money to buy one.
No matter what plan he would have had, a spacecraft would have been necessary (it is even an integral aspect of the SW mythos to have one). He had over a decade to accumulate money for that or get a spacecraft somehow, as well as make other preperations.

He has neither, he has to hire the first pilot willing to take him (for what is probably all the cash Obi-Wan has) and even then has to promise full payment. It is a stroke of luck that Han Solo was desperate enough take that promise (and no, don't get into "there is no such thing as luck").

So Kanan and Asohka were never going to train Luke. Obi Wan was there to train Luke. That is the bottom line. No matter which you slice it.

No. You are confused as to where even the argument is even taking place. You are arguing author's intent for two seperate authors in two different storylines. I am arguing (and originally I began just as informing, really this argument has already happened before in the thread) about the existence of something that would have been a perfectly logical question in-universe.

Yes, there probably will be something that comes up. We know that. Again, we have speculated all sorts of possibilities previously and this is something I also added. But her existence still adds an annoying inconsistency, which is a fault of Rebels that has not been addressed yet.

Why would you turn to her at all?

Because at the time period after tNH, she (and Kanan) would be a member of the Rebellion and the one of the only Jedi left (if she and Kanan are even alive at that point). Luke isn't spoiled for teachers, any Jedi teacher able to teach him anything would have given him much-need progress if for nothing else, but as tools for survival. Kanan has managed to do something right with Ezra, as he demonstrates skills that Luke didn't have in tESB.

[Rogue 9]

Luke may not know of a grand plan, but Obi Wan and Yoda are aware of it.

And? So? Therefore? In the interim between ANH and ESB, Obi-Wan is dead and Yoda is incommunicado. They certainly aren't telling Luke not to take any other teachers. What Luke knows or doesn't know is the only relevant factor.

[Andy Wylde]

Luke may not know of a grand plan, but Obi Wan and Yoda are aware of it.

And? So? Therefore? In the interim between ANH and ESB, Obi-Wan is dead and Yoda is incommunicado. They certainly aren't telling Luke not to take any other teachers. What Luke knows or doesn't know is the only relevant factor.

Yes Obi Wan is dead. But did you not see him appear in the beginning of TESB? And tell Luke to go to Dagobah? Now I am not saying that they shouldn't tell not to take other teachers, but the plan at least in ANH was Obi Wan was going to teach him, or at least try to. So there was an initial plan on Obi Wan's part. I mean you seen these movies!

And yes I agree with you that other teachers aren't a problem for Luke to have. But my point was that Obi Wan was sitting on Tattooine looking over Luke and waiting to train him. So that is a plan of sorts. I mean do you think he gave Luke the light saber just for kicks? I think I am getting off topic here. But yes to your point to about having other teachers. I personally felt that for me in Luke's case out of the four I previously mentioned, Obi Wan and Yoda are the most qualified. But I think Asohka and Kanan would be good teachers for light saber combat as we see they can hold down a fight as seen in TCW and Rebels. But I don't think that those 2 can teach Luke the finer aspects of the force as Obi Wan and Yoda can.

So I guess those 4 are all good. Just obviously some are better than others. But all good none the less.

[Rogue 9]

Yes, I have seen these movies, and I saw that Luke was surprised to see Obi-Wan's ghost, which means him appearing was not a regular occurrence assuming (generously) that it had happened before at all. The problem here isn't that Luke couldn't learn from Kanan or Ahsoka; it's that he could and yet didn't. There has to be an explanation for that; the most obvious is that they're dead by the events of ESB, but I doubt Disney will go that way and I'm not alone.

[Andy Wylde]

Yes, I have seen these movies, and I saw that Luke was surprised to see Obi-Wan's ghost, which means him appearing was not a regular occurrence assuming (generously) that it had happened before at all. The problem here isn't that Luke couldn't learn from Kanan or Ahsoka; it's that he could and yet didn't. There has to be an explanation for that; the most obvious is that they're dead by the events of ESB, but I doubt Disney will go that way and I'm not alone.

Oh yeah believe me I agree with you on it all. I was joking with you about the seeing the movies. But no Obi Wan's ghost was definitely the first time he appeared to Luke. Because Luke was surprised when it happened. But for the other 2 training him? Well they could have been on Alderaan when it exploded? But you are most likely correct about the route Disney will take. I guess if anything they just had no contact with the Rebels that Luke was part of? I don't know. I am just throwing out different scenarios.

Kanan I know had reservations about working with the Rebels in the beginning of this season. How he still feels I am not sure. But that could be a reason why he isn't around when episode 4 takes place. He may just want nothing to do with the Rebellion and just work with the crew of the Ghost. And maybe the crew of the Ghost just operate solo. As for Asohka? Well we know she is aware of Vader's existence and Vader is aware of hers. So quite possibly they might eventually cross paths and...Well you see where I am going with this

[biostem]

They could go the "safe route" and simply have the Ghosts's entire compliment decide to live out the rest of their lives in hiding, either in the outer rim, or possibly even heaving beyond the galaxy or to that satellite galaxy.

[Galvatron]

They could go the "safe route" and simply have the Ghosts's entire compliment decide to live out the rest of their lives in hiding, either in the outer rim, or possibly even heaving beyond the galaxy or to that satellite galaxy.

Without Yoda's knowledge? He "watched" Luke grow up through the Force. Would he tell Luke he was last Jedi if there were still others in hiding?

[Zixinus]

He might mean the "effectively" last Jedi. Kanan and Asoka might be alive and be something that safely be called Jedi but stuck or otherwise unreachable or unavailable (their spacecrafts are down, they are outside civilized space or something). They might be in a spot where the Force is in a state that Yoda can't observe them or even have reason to believe that they are dead. It is questionable how well Yoda can observe to begin with: note that he was only able to do his "speak trough the ether" trick in a Jedi temple. It might be that his abilities to see and communicate trough the Force are very limited. This is not even bringing in the possibility of Palpatine being involved.

[Zixinus]

But I think Asohka and Kanan would be good teachers for light saber combat as we see they can hold down a fight as seen in TCW and Rebels. But I don't think that those 2 can teach Luke the finer aspects of the force as Obi Wan and Yoda can.

They are both Jedi that were trained since they could walk up until they became Padawans. Do you honestly think that the only thing they teach is lightsaber combat during all that time?

What can they teach Luke? The basics. The thing of which very little was taught to Luke (the ride between Tatooine and the Death Star). Not just lightsaber-fighting but Jedi philosophy, history and all the various skills related to the Force. Stuff that was taught to both Kanan and Ahsoka at a young age but Luke had very little time with.

Say they are still hanging around and one of them took Luke in. Even if Obi-Wan would have later directed Luke to Yoda later, it would allowed Yoda to teach more advanced things and focus on Luke's weaknesses during his time with Luke. It may have allowed Luke to be better prepared as a result and maybe not lose his hand.

Yes, Yoda is actually the best teacher around, he is a Master that is otherwise unoccupied but unavailable until Obi-Wan contacts Luke.

The current crop of comics (and one of the books) about Luke is actually about him seeking any traces of the Jedi so he can better himself, become a Jedi and prepare him to fight Vader. He wants to do that but he has no teacher or even material to self-teach. He is prepared to go to extreme risks to his life to do it. Which is why the question is hanging around.