Rant: Anti-War Protestors are idiots

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
Durandal
Bile-Driven Hate Machine
Posts: 17927
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:26pm
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Contact:

Re: Rant: Anti-War Protestors are idiots

Post by Durandal »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:You have an excellent point Durandal, but you directed it at the wrong person.

Kelly did not lump them all into one category. She said "Hey you anti-war nuts"

Meaning those that throw eggs on cars, and are otherwise fucking immature assholes.
I'd suggest reading her post subject again.

"Anti-War Protestors are idiots"

I resent that. My sister has been to a number of anti-war protests at the University of Michigan and ... <gasp!> none of them turned violent! Wow! Could it be that the generalization is wrong? Ever think that the reason anti-war protesters are so pissed off is because the president unilaterally declared that he didn't give a flying fuck what they had to say, even when polls showed that 50% of the people were against war? These people are getting desperate, and they want to be heard. Having the president of your nation brush you off isn't likely to calm people down.

Granted, while I may think that anti-war protests are a pointless display right now, they have the right to bitch if they want to. I'm going to protest by casting my vote to kick Bush's cowboy ass out of office next year.
Damien Sorresso

"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

In any case, even with the way our government spends money, I don't think we'll need to worry about Weimar-style hyperinflation any time soon.
I meant in Sokar's scenario. The massive defecits would come home to roost, and you would have the mother of all overproduction.

Take Weimar Germany (1930s): Massive defecits (war repayments) mother of all overproduction was not present in Weimar germany, however it was the cause of the wall street crash.

The course of sokar's plan would result in wall street crash + weimar hyperinflation.

EDIT: You may have plenty of food, but you could only harvest it by communist style forced collective farming, which is of course, the least effective way of doing it.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Arthur_Tuxedo
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5637
Joined: 2002-07-23 03:28am
Location: San Francisco, California

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

I really didn't expect a lot of vitriolic knee-jerk pro-war pro-Bush pro-stupidity sentiment on this board. Well, you probably won't like this then: I think it's very possible that Bush goes down in history as the worst president the United States has ever seen in its lifetime. Let's see what ol' Shrub has accomplished.

1. He stole the election in the first place
2. He's arrogant, stupid, and agressive
3. He turned the world against our country
4. He's taken us to war at the cost of the lives of soldiers with bright futures for bullshit reasons.
5. He did nothing about the Enron, Worldcom, etc. scandals.
6. He cut taxes for the rich, and cut programs for the poor.
7. He promotes destruction of the wall between church and state.
8. He's a liar (eg. "Saddam and his terrorist allies").
9. He's an ex-cokehead turned born-again. Honestly, when your president has the characteristics of the Bible thumping McDonald's employee who shows up at everyone's high-school reunion, we've got some serious fucking problems.
10. The people that do his thinking for him are some of the worst, most immoral people on the face of the planet (make no mistake, the real Axis of Evil is Ashcroft, Cheney, and Rumsfeld)
11. He's pissed all over the Bill of Rights with this Patriot Act horseshit. Perhaps you haven't noticed that you don't have the right to due process or trial by jury anymore.
12. A lot of other things that I don't have to mention because someone else did.
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_dem ... onfilm.htm

9/11 is the best thing that could have happened to Bush. Without it, the country would have realized long ago what a fucking disgrace he is. I'm sure most of you will dismiss this as "anti-american", but that's fine with me, you're not the people I'm trying to convince.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali

"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
User avatar
RedImperator
Roosevelt Republican
Posts: 16465
Joined: 2002-07-11 07:59pm
Location: Delaware
Contact:

Post by RedImperator »

The wanking is strong in this thread. Jesus, Sokar, way to prove Durandal's point.
Image
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963
X-Ray Blues
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

More strawmen. Obviously, anyone who supports Bush on Iraq is nothing but a knee-jerk pro-American warmonger! Never mind vast ideological differences between them when they occur.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Post by Knife »

1. He stole the election in the first place
2. He's arrogant, stupid, and agressive
3. He turned the world against our country
4. He's taken us to war at the cost of the lives of soldiers with bright futures for bullshit reasons.
5. He did nothing about the Enron, Worldcom, etc. scandals.
6. He cut taxes for the rich, and cut programs for the poor.
7. He promotes destruction of the wall between church and state.
8. He's a liar (eg. "Saddam and his terrorist allies").
9. He's an ex-cokehead turned born-again. Honestly, when your president has the characteristics of the Bible thumping McDonald's employee who shows up at everyone's high-school reunion, we've got some serious fucking problems.
10. The people that do his thinking for him are some of the worst, most immoral people on the face of the planet (make no mistake, the real Axis of Evil is Ashcroft, Cheney, and Rumsfeld)
11. He's pissed all over the Bill of Rights with this Patriot Act horseshit. Perhaps you haven't noticed that you don't have the right to due process or trial by jury anymore.
12. A lot of other things that I don't have to mention because someone else did.
1. Ahahahahahahaha, ok I am fine now, Ahahahahahahahah. Ok, really
I'm ok now. Electorial College. Also, on the 'he got the majority vote'
thing, I was always curious as to what all those millions of abenstee
ballots changed the over all total. There were a million abenstee
votes in Californial alone that I have never seen in any total. All
totals I have ever seen were the ones in the first week after the
election. Gore lost, deal with it.
2. Yes he is, but aren't all politicians.
3. Difference between a poll driven administration and one who is trying
to lead. History will tell how well he led, but.....
4. No more so then the past administrations have, Clinton had us in more
combat situations then just about anyone else in recent memory. Bush
the first and Reagan, not to mention Carter (Mr Peace himself) author
ized military operations durring their terms of office.
5. IIRC, some people went to jail and others are under investigation.
Though, I do agree that more should have been done.
6. No, he cut taxes for everyone who pays taxes and stopped increasing
spending for other programes. I don't need public assistence if I can
have more of my own fucking money.
7. OK, agree with you there.
8. Again, he's a politician.
9. Ok, agree with you there.
10. Blah, your opinion. I do agree with you that Ashcroft is an ass and
needs to be canned. Some of his other advisers have long histories
of public service, but I see that a majority of your dislike for them are
on ideaological grounds.
11. Some of the Patriot bill is suspect but it still has to face Judicial Review
and I am confident that alot of the bullshit will be weeded out of it.
12. OK.

I don't think you are anti-american. That view point is becoming as knee jerk, as those who started calling people anti-american for voicing their opinions.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
theski
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4327
Joined: 2003-01-28 03:20pm
Location: Hurricane Watching

Post by theski »

(sigh) Well Dalton, this place is going to be a flame fest!!!!
First ,Arthur take off your Clinton pajamas Since I am at work I will take a couple of points now and some later.. I'm sure others will contribute to showing you the error of your ways..
All I can say is that this is YOUR OPINION THERE IS NOT 1 FACT TO BACK UP ANY OF THIS BULLSHIT SO PLEASE CALL MR> MOORE and the 2 of you can long dfor the days of CLINTON TOGETHER.. TRY and give us some proof.. Just example: WHAT PROGRAMS HAS BUSH CUT??????
Sudden power is apt to be insolent, sudden liberty saucy; that behaves best which has grown gradually.
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

Trust me, if Bush were cutting poverty-subsidization programs I would know about it and would be celebrating it. He's not.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
Arthur_Tuxedo
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5637
Joined: 2002-07-23 03:28am
Location: San Francisco, California

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Durran Korr wrote:More strawmen. Obviously, anyone who supports Bush on Iraq is nothing but a knee-jerk pro-American warmonger! Never mind vast ideological differences between them when they occur.
You're really something else. You dismiss something that took me 20 minutes to type by waving your hand and saying "more strawmen". Maybe you should think before using that term and realize I couldn't have used a strawman in my post even if I had wanted to since I wasn't summarizing someone's arguments! At least Knife is debating instead of building a wall of ignorance.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali

"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
User avatar
Kuja
The Dark Messenger
Posts: 19322
Joined: 2002-07-11 12:05am
Location: AZ

Post by Kuja »

10. The people that do his thinking for him are some of the worst, most immoral people on the face of the planet (make no mistake, the real Axis of Evil is Ashcroft, Cheney, and Rumsfeld)
I think your perspective on immorality is a little fucked up.
Image
JADAFETWA
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: Rant: Anti-War Protestors are idiots

Post by MKSheppard »

Durandal wrote: I resent that. My sister has been to a number of anti-war protests at the University of Michigan and ... <gasp!> none of them turned violent! Wow! Could it be that the generalization is wrong? Ever think that the reason anti-war protesters are so pissed off is because the president unilaterally declared that he didn't give a flying fuck what they had to say, even when polls showed that 50% of the people were against war?
Hey, don't you mean 20%? :twisted:

HEHEHEH, 70% of the US supports our kicking Iraqi ass all over the place :twisted:
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
Joe
Space Cowboy
Posts: 17314
Joined: 2002-08-22 09:58pm
Location: Wishing I was in Athens, GA

Post by Joe »

Maybe I wasn't correct to dismiss your post as a strawman. I don't appreciate, however, having some laundry list of bad things thrown at me like I'm some Bush shill. I'm not much of a Bush supporter and I don't like being labeled as one. The notion that being pro-war is the same as being oblivious to Bush's assorted idiocies is a strawman.
Image

BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman

I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
User avatar
Arthur_Tuxedo
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5637
Joined: 2002-07-23 03:28am
Location: San Francisco, California

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Knife wrote: 1. Ahahahahahahaha, ok I am fine now, Ahahahahahahahah. Ok, really
I'm ok now. Electorial College. Also, on the 'he got the majority vote'
thing, I was always curious as to what all those millions of abenstee
ballots changed the over all total. There were a million abenstee
votes in Californial alone that I have never seen in any total. All
totals I have ever seen were the ones in the first week after the
election. Gore lost, deal with it.
I wasn't talking about the fact that he didn't get a majority vote, although perhaps I should have included that. I'm talking about the way his brother Jeb helped him cheat his way into office in Florida. Perhaps you forgot about that? Frankly, at the time, I was pretty ambivalent about Gore vs. Bush. They both seemed like they would be worthless do-nothing presidents. Had I known what I know now, I would have been more animated.
2. Yes he is, but aren't all politicians.
No, not really. All politicians are dishonest, power-hungry, and self-serving, but not all have the combination of arrogance and stupidity that's quickly turning the whole world against our country.
3. Difference between a poll driven administration and one who is trying to lead. History will tell how well he led, but.....
FYI, I'm not a Democrat so Clinton's mistakes are a red herring.
4. No more so then the past administrations have, Clinton had us in more
combat situations then just about anyone else in recent memory. Bush
the first and Reagan, not to mention Carter (Mr Peace himself) author
ized military operations durring their terms of office.
Why are you responding to criticism of Bush by criticizing democrats instead of addressing the point?
5. IIRC, some people went to jail and others are under investigation.
Though, I do agree that more should have been done.
6. No, he cut taxes for everyone who pays taxes and stopped increasing
spending for other programes. I don't need public assistence if I can
have more of my own fucking money.
He had special tax cuts for those who receive dividends.
7. OK, agree with you there.
8. Again, he's a politician.
9. Ok, agree with you there.
10. Blah, your opinion. I do agree with you that Ashcroft is an ass and
needs to be canned. Some of his other advisers have long histories
of public service, but I see that a majority of your dislike for them are
on ideaological grounds.
Not at all. I'm not an ideologue. I hate Ashcroft because of the USA Patriot Act. I hate Cheney because he's a corporate criminal and a bastard. I hate Rumsfeld because he's a blatant liar and he's the son of a bitch who was instrumental in getting Saddam his WMD in the first place. I'm not pro-American, I'm not anti-American, I'm not anything. If I ever, ever find out through introspection or debate that I hold an opinion that's not based on evidence, research, and logic, I will either back it up or change it. Don't lump me in with the bleating sheep of this world.
11. Some of the Patriot bill is suspect but it still has to face Judicial Review
and I am confident that alot of the bullshit will be weeded out of it.
It shouldn't have been there in the first place. Not even during McCarthy were these kinds of abuses formalized into law. This administration is just as dangerous to Americans as it is to the rest of the world.
12. OK.

I don't think you are anti-american. That view point is becoming as knee jerk, as those who started calling people anti-american for voicing their opinions.
It gets polarized. In the end it doesn't really matter though, the sheep of this world (liberal or conservative) will never amount to anything.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali

"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
Kelly Antilles
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6417
Joined: 2002-09-12 10:36am

Post by Kelly Antilles »

Excuse the fuck out of me for leaving out one goddamn word. MOST anti-war protestors are idiots. Good fucking god, why can't people read my goddamn post first before fucking going off on me.

And for the fuckups who are writing the fucking lists. Ever heard of LESSER OF TWO EVILS. Fuck no, I guess. We had NO FUCKING ONE to really vote for in the last election. It was either Clinton's lackey who would have just sat around with his thumb up his ass for 4-8 more years and we would have fallen into a deeper recession, or Bush, who should never have gone for a higher office than govenor.
User avatar
Stravo
Official SD.Net Teller of Tales
Posts: 12806
Joined: 2002-07-08 12:06pm
Location: NYC

Post by Stravo »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I really didn't expect a lot of vitriolic knee-jerk pro-war pro-Bush pro-stupidity sentiment on this board. Well, you probably won't like this then: I think it's very possible that Bush goes down in history as the worst president the United States has ever seen in its lifetime. Let's see what ol' Shrub has accomplished.

1. He stole the election in the first place
BZZZZT Wrong, several independent investigations by newspapers in Florida (like the Miami Herald) after the fact recounted and Bush won by an even greater margin than officially reported. Got a problem with him winning an electoral College Victory go complain to the same authors that made up your precious Bill Of Rights.

2. He's arrogant, stupid, and agressive
SNIFF SNIFF...what's that I smell? Personal opinion masquerading as fact??



3. He turned the world against our country
France and Germany do not the world make and as far as I'm concerned, US interests should never be subservient to world opinion. If you lived here in NYC during 9/11 you would know why some of us are extremely adamant about premepting. The UN failed to enforce its own resolutions, because they lack the will we should as well? And since when is it bad to take out an evil dictator that is oppressing his people with torture and rape? Have YET to hear a good argument about that.


4. He's taken us to war at the cost of the lives of soldiers with bright futures for bullshit reasons.
PREEMPTION. The Bush Doctrine. If you lost friends in those towers as I have you would know that we better damn well hit them first and hit them hard. Oh and could you clarrify for me how deposing an evil dictator that rapes, mutilates and tortures his people is a "wrong" reason? How trying to prevent WMD from entering the hands of this same monster is a "wrong" reason. Just because you don't agree with it don't make it wrong.



5. He did nothing about the Enron, Worldcom, etc. scandals.
There have been prosecutions. I should know, my firm represents Arthur Andersen and the government has been like a pitbull after the senior partners and company records. There is no wink wink nudge nudge effect going on here. And you can't blame the man if the current laws in place could not have foreseen what happened here. You can't invent laws after the fact that prosecute people. Granted as Knife said as well, I think more could and can be done but neither will I say that he has turned a blind eye to this.


6. He cut taxes for the rich, and cut programs for the poor.
He cut taxes for EVERYONE. I saw a significant boost in my refund this year and I am hardly rich. And besides, lets be honest, because a man makes more he needs to pay more than the next man. As I rose up in tax brackets I began to lament hightaxes so I can imagine what people like gates and others think. They already pay quite a fair share, let's punish success shall we?


7. He promotes destruction of the wall between church and state.

You will get no argument from me here. I too am troubled by "faith based" intiatives.


8. He's a liar (eg. "Saddam and his terrorist allies").
Oh yes...that's right...NO ONE ELSE lies. Oh god, Clinton NEVER lied...he just asked us what the meaning of "is" was. :roll: By the way, a terrorist camp was struck by cruise missiles in Northern Iraq killing about a hundred terrorist fighters. If you're going to come up with an example of his lying please actually find one.


9. He's an ex-cokehead turned born-again. Honestly, when your president has the characteristics of the Bible thumping McDonald's employee who shows up at everyone's high-school reunion, we've got some serious fucking problems.
Yes, because redemption can never happen and people can never change their ways. Nice view of humanity there....remind me to ask you for counseling when someone dies in my family.


10. The people that do his thinking for him are some of the worst, most immoral people on the face of the planet (make no mistake, the real Axis of Evil is Ashcroft, Cheney, and Rumsfeld)
11. He's pissed all over the Bill of Rights with this Patriot Act horseshit. Perhaps you haven't noticed that you don't have the right to due process or trial by jury anymore.
SNIFF SNIFF...there we go again....personal opinion masquerading as fact, you're REALLY good at this aren't you? And next time you want to engage in comparative evils let's look at what bullshit you're spewing the evils that you pampered and spoiled little children complain about when you call Ashcroft a nazi PALE in comparison to being fed to human meat grinders in the prisons of Iraq or having videotapes of female relatives being gang raped by Sadaam's men mailed to you here in the states because you defected. THAT IS EVIL. The machinations of petty beauracrats whose best laid plans can be foiled by the court system are PETTY compared to the everyday EVILS of Baghdad. Or North Korea where MILLIONS are starving so think about that while you stuff your face with big macs and bitterly complain about the "evils" of Bush and his adminatration.



12. A lot of other things that I don't have to mention because someone else did.
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_dem ... onfilm.htm

9/11 is the best thing that could have happened to Bush. Without it, the country would have realized long ago what a fucking disgrace he is. I'm sure most of you will dismiss this as "anti-american", but that's fine with me, you're not the people I'm trying to convince.
Wherever you go, there you are.

Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Image
User avatar
Arthur_Tuxedo
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5637
Joined: 2002-07-23 03:28am
Location: San Francisco, California

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Kelly Antilles wrote:Excuse the fuck out of me for leaving out one goddamn word. MOST anti-war protestors are idiots. Good fucking god, why can't people read my goddamn post first before fucking going off on me.

And for the fuckups who are writing the fucking lists. Ever heard of LESSER OF TWO EVILS. Fuck no, I guess. We had NO FUCKING ONE to really vote for in the last election. It was either Clinton's lackey who would have just sat around with his thumb up his ass for 4-8 more years and we would have fallen into a deeper recession, or Bush, who should never have gone for a higher office than govenor.
You call Bush the "lesser of two evils"?
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali

"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:
Kelly Antilles wrote:Excuse the fuck out of me for leaving out one goddamn word. MOST anti-war protestors are idiots. Good fucking god, why can't people read my goddamn post first before fucking going off on me.

And for the fuckups who are writing the fucking lists. Ever heard of LESSER OF TWO EVILS. Fuck no, I guess. We had NO FUCKING ONE to really vote for in the last election. It was either Clinton's lackey who would have just sat around with his thumb up his ass for 4-8 more years and we would have fallen into a deeper recession, or Bush, who should never have gone for a higher office than govenor.
You call Bush the "lesser of two evils"?
Yes, because Clthulhu wasn't running for President on a votable platform.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Kelly Antilles
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6417
Joined: 2002-09-12 10:36am

Post by Kelly Antilles »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote: You call Bush the "lesser of two evils"?
Yes, I do.
User avatar
Arthur_Tuxedo
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5637
Joined: 2002-07-23 03:28am
Location: San Francisco, California

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Stravo wrote:
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I really didn't expect a lot of vitriolic knee-jerk pro-war pro-Bush pro-stupidity sentiment on this board. Well, you probably won't like this then: I think it's very possible that Bush goes down in history as the worst president the United States has ever seen in its lifetime. Let's see what ol' Shrub has accomplished.

1. He stole the election in the first place
BZZZZT Wrong, several independent investigations by newspapers in Florida (like the Miami Herald) after the fact recounted and Bush won by an even greater margin than officially reported. Got a problem with him winning an electoral College Victory go complain to the same authors that made up your precious Bill Of Rights.
How about the way the Supreme Court stopped the recount and handed the election to Bush? What was he so afraid of?
2. He's arrogant, stupid, and agressive
SNIFF SNIFF...what's that I smell? Personal opinion masquerading as fact??
Actually it's personal opinion being forwarded as an argument. Care to refute it?
3. He turned the world against our country
France and Germany do not the world make and as far as I'm concerned, US interests should never be subservient to world opinion. If you lived here in NYC during 9/11 you would know why some of us are extremely adamant about premepting.

If you think France and Germany are the only countries against this war and against Bush, you're more of a lost cause than I thought. There was a poll across European countries about the most dangerous country in the world and 86 percent responded that they thought it was the U.S. And if you think those New Yorkers are solidified against the war you'll have to explain the 500,000 protestors. By the way, Bush's assertion that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 is not just normal politician double-speak, it's a bold faced lie.

The UN failed to enforce its own resolutions, because they lack the will we should as well? And since when is it bad to take out an evil dictator that is oppressing his people with torture and rape? Have YET to hear a good argument about that.
I have yet to hear a shred of evidence to suggest that this is our motivation for going to war and not a combination of economic interests and Realpolitik. Even if it were the reason, 1) there are other, more brutal dictators, and 2) we have a long history of leaving bad places twice as bad as we found them.
4. He's taken us to war at the cost of the lives of soldiers with bright futures for bullshit reasons.
PREEMPTION. The Bush Doctrine. If you lost friends in those towers as I have you would know that we better damn well hit them first and hit them hard.

Who's "them"? If you're talking about Al-Qaeda, OK, if you're talking about Iraq, you're a moron.
Oh and could you clarrify for me how deposing an evil dictator that rapes, mutilates and tortures his people is a "wrong" reason?

See above.
How trying to prevent WMD from entering the hands of this same monster is a "wrong" reason. Just because you don't agree with it don't make it wrong.
Of course it does. How can you disagree with something and not consider it wrong? The kicker is to always be open to new evidence and be willing to change your opinion if you find it to be wrong. I've met exactly 5 people in my life who were willing to do that.

As for his WMD (we gave him both weapons and knowledge of how to build his own by the way), the weapons' inspectors have found zero evidence for that. I agree that he probably has them, but you can't use assumptions as evidence on the world scene. That's a very dangerous precedent to set.
5. He did nothing about the Enron, Worldcom, etc. scandals.
There have been prosecutions. I should know, my firm represents Arthur Andersen and the government has been like a pitbull after the senior partners and company records. There is no wink wink nudge nudge effect going on here. And you can't blame the man if the current laws in place could not have foreseen what happened here. You can't invent laws after the fact that prosecute people. Granted as Knife said as well, I think more could and can be done but neither will I say that he has turned a blind eye to this.
Please. Any other President would have acted after Enron, and Worldcom and the others that followed selling their shareholders down the river wouldn't have happened.
6. He cut taxes for the rich, and cut programs for the poor.
He cut taxes for EVERYONE. I saw a significant boost in my refund this year and I am hardly rich. And besides, lets be honest, because a man makes more he needs to pay more than the next man. As I rose up in tax brackets I began to lament hightaxes so I can imagine what people like gates and others think. They already pay quite a fair share, let's punish success shall we?
Apparently sympathy is a foreign concept to you.
7. He promotes destruction of the wall between church and state.

You will get no argument from me here. I too am troubled by "faith based" intiatives.


8. He's a liar (eg. "Saddam and his terrorist allies").
Oh yes...that's right...NO ONE ELSE lies. Oh god, Clinton NEVER lied...he just asked us what the meaning of "is" was. :roll: By the way, a terrorist camp was struck by cruise missiles in Northern Iraq killing about a hundred terrorist fighters. If you're going to come up with an example of his lying please actually find one.
I just provided one. Are you blind? He got up on national television and used the words "Saddam and his terrorist allies". Despite over a year of desperate searching for links between Saddam and terrorist organizations, not a shred of evidence has been found. The propaganda department is trying to make Americans think (and succeeding) that Saddam is in the same camp as the people who attacked the WTC. That's a damned dirty lie, the kind that gets thousands of people killed.
9. He's an ex-cokehead turned born-again. Honestly, when your president has the characteristics of the Bible thumping McDonald's employee who shows up at everyone's high-school reunion, we've got some serious fucking problems.
Yes, because redemption can never happen and people can never change their ways. Nice view of humanity there....remind me to ask you for counseling when someone dies in my family.
You definitely don't want to talk to me when someone dies, because I'll tell you that there's no soul, no heaven, no reincarnation, they're gone forever, and you know why? Because it's the fucking truth, and if you expect me to tell the Emperor what a nice suit he's wearing, you can kiss my ass.
10. The people that do his thinking for him are some of the worst, most immoral people on the face of the planet (make no mistake, the real Axis of Evil is Ashcroft, Cheney, and Rumsfeld)
11. He's pissed all over the Bill of Rights with this Patriot Act horseshit. Perhaps you haven't noticed that you don't have the right to due process or trial by jury anymore.
SNIFF SNIFF...there we go again....personal opinion masquerading as fact, you're REALLY good at this aren't you? And next time you want to engage in comparative evils let's look at what bullshit you're spewing the evils that you pampered and spoiled little children complain about when you call Ashcroft a nazi PALE in comparison to being fed to human meat grinders in the prisons of Iraq or having videotapes of female relatives being gang raped by Sadaam's men mailed to you here in the states because you defected. THAT IS EVIL. The machinations of petty beauracrats whose best laid plans can be foiled by the court system are PETTY compared to the everyday EVILS of Baghdad. Or North Korea where MILLIONS are starving so think about that while you stuff your face with big macs and bitterly complain about the "evils" of Bush and his adminatration.
Attempting to psychoanalyze me instead of dealing with my points? For shame. I could spend a page defending myself against your Johnny Cochrane assault, but then this would turn into a discussion of me and not Bush, and you would have won. I refuse to fall prey to your ad-hominems and red herrings.

In any case. I already said in my response to Knife why the real Axis of Evil is dangerous, and your dismissal as my "personal opinion" does not change that.
12. A lot of other things that I don't have to mention because someone else did.
http://www.house.gov/appropriations_dem ... onfilm.htm

9/11 is the best thing that could have happened to Bush. Without it, the country would have realized long ago what a fucking disgrace he is. I'm sure most of you will dismiss this as "anti-american", but that's fine with me, you're not the people I'm trying to convince.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali

"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
User avatar
Arthur_Tuxedo
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5637
Joined: 2002-07-23 03:28am
Location: San Francisco, California

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

Durran Korr wrote:Maybe I wasn't correct to dismiss your post as a strawman. I don't appreciate, however, having some laundry list of bad things thrown at me like I'm some Bush shill. I'm not much of a Bush supporter and I don't like being labeled as one. The notion that being pro-war is the same as being oblivious to Bush's assorted idiocies is a strawman.
Oh ok, well then I've got something else you won't like: You're a moron. Now grow a pair and start dealing in facts and not sniffling about hurt feelings.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali

"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
Axis Kast
Vympel's Bitch
Posts: 3893
Joined: 2003-03-02 10:45am
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Contact:

Post by Axis Kast »

You’ll probably dismiss this as another case of my “arrogant, retarded jingoism,” but I’ll take a crack at refuting some of your finer arguments:
He stole the election in the first place.
“Stole the election?” No. The man was put into office via the Electoral College and confirmed via the Supreme Court of the United States of America to have won the election of November 2000. Whether or not you place much stock in the popular vote, it has no true legal value other than as an indicator. Members of the Electoral College are intended but not required to vote along with their constituencies. They might have done you an ideological or philosophical disservice, but that does not mean our system was crushed underfoot.

You might not have expected this to come down to the Electoral College, but that’s what happened. It’s occurred before. Remember President Samuel B. Tilden? Oh, that’s right, Rutherford B. Hayes made a deal with the Democratic Party ensuring that Tilden would never ascend despite gaining the popular vote. Technically, their agreement was legal even if not in Tilden’s own best interest. There are plenty of loopholes and bear traps in our system which become pertinent from time to time. It does not mean that crimes were committed. It should at least salve your conscience to know that Bush had over forty-nine percent of the popular vote. One can credibly say that approximately half of the United States pushed the Republican lever.

For the sake of argument – not that it necessarily matters here or with our system -, you might as well acknowledge how much more advanced our democracy is in terms of recognizing your rights as compared to others. At the very least you can usually expect the Electoral College to heed your own private ballot. Britons cannot even vote directly for a Prime Minister, only for a seat in Parliament. The French were faced last year with a choice between long-standing leader (fourteen years, to be exact) Jacques Chirac and a neo-Nazi, Jean-Marine Le Pen. Big surprise at that outcome. Want to talk about the Russian Federation? Most people credibly identify Vladimir Putin as a thinly veiled dictator. At least you get to vote as an individual.
He's arrogant, stupid, and aggressive.
“Arrogant?” Okay, I’ll bite. Bush can be extremely grating sometimes and has shown unilateral tendencies that both anger and alarm. But a significant degree of the backlash comes in the radical difference of his approach as compared to that of Bill Clinton, far more a globalistic leader. You also need to understand that the new administration identifies itself as having to fend off rather than cooperate with the United Nations. The White House is now managed by an administration patently out for the best interests of the United States of America and its allies rather than humanity as a whole. Despite George W. Bush and his moralistic outlook, we have rarely been in so unique a position since before the Second World War.

Europe is flexing its muscles as a whole now, competing with the United States as Cold War alliances thaw. Bush understands that after the Iraqis, our next big concern might just be corporate skirmishing. Clinton enjoyed a less-than tense relationship with the Chinese, yes. But Bush successfully maneuvered his way through a dangerous crisis involving an American spy plane and is now at least credibly engaging Hu Jintao on his own turf. Any President would have had hang-ups over Korea. At this point in time, Bush gets five stars not merely for effort. The Middle East has never been a more complicated region. Clinton never dreamed he’d have to manage affairs with a heavy hand – probably to our detriment.

A great deal of Bush’s arrogance comes out of his defiance of treaty agreements that mean next to nothing anyway. Kyoto? I agree that was handled badly. As has been suggested in the past, Bush should have pandered to it for the sake of show and then let Congress blast it down. But the ABM treaty? North Korea has proven its worth and at this stage, most analysts predict that nothing bad will come of it. Our closest competitors already enjoy the MAD capability. Not even a new anti-ballistic missile shield will tilt that balance appreciably. The International Criminal Court? Again, Bush is being slammed for something to which he could never agree. Just like the landmine treaty, it binds the hands of the most active militarily. How would you feel right now if Saddam tried to capitalize on international goodwill by demanding that certain American generals assaulting Baghdad appear before the ICC? Can you imagine what would happen if the Russians and Chinese, out of “desire for legitimate investigation,” actually echoed Iraq’s demands?

“Stupid?” No. Bush might have choked on a pretzel, but I’m sure you’ve had trouble swallowing a mouthful of food at some time in your life. Shall I now call you “idiot” and proceed to insult you mercilessly? A C-average report card? Well, Bill Gates managed that one. And he didn’t even finish college. All of the most in-depth coverage suggests that Bush is privately a very sharp, personable man with a keen grasp of international affairs not immediately evident when he tries to maintain a façade of legalese against prying cameras. The man minces words, granted, but at least he doesn’t look as if he’s about to cry hysterically after finishing ever sentence. Remember Clinton’s baby face?

Aggressive? Afghanistan was a foregone conclusion. Gore would have been labeled equally as “dangerous” by the international community. As for Iraq, you can call Bush out all you like. The fact of the matter is that nobody could copy our example even if they tried. We aren’t setting any kind of “new precedent” because we ourselves will end military preemption once Hussein is out. Period. Aside from a few missiles falling on a nuclear facility nearing completion in Tehran, I seriously doubt whether any kind of large-scale fire force will be seen roving around the Middle East once Baghdad is under Coalition control and the Republic of Iraq reconstituted. Aside from their being correct about his proactive attitude, critics of Bush are wrong that his outlook is really very dangerous.
He turned the world against our country.
Yes and no. He could have handled the situation far better, but Chirac and Schroeder, I am now convinced, would have been equally as stubborn about elevating UNMOVIC as a means to an end in and of itself. If Bush hadn’t gone in, we’d face massive humiliation and embolden a whole slew of dictators to flock and rally around around Europe, hoping desperately to capitalize on the new waves of independence. Our enemies are testing the waters with the help of a huge base of critics here at home, blasting the American President as much for his character as for his vision. The fact of the matter is that his war will do more good than bad in the end. Many protestors are out there only to be heard. A great deal have absolutely no strategic outlook worthy of the name. Others are idealistic past the point of reason. There’s no way Bush could have won this one.

The world will in time come to appreciate America once the EU begins becoming more aggressive. By the end of this whole debacle in Iraq, the United Nations will again be sated and Hans Blix discredited entirely. Anti-Americanism will remain a powerful force, yes, but how much of that was inevitable? Clinton enjoyed a calm before the storm so to speak, riding the last waves of the Cold War era. Now, it’s a far more autonomous Europe and a far more critical post-war populace.
He's taken us to war at the cost of the lives of soldiers with bright futures for bullshit reasons.
That’s an opinion. I’m sure you already know I disagree completely. I truly believe Bush when he suggests that there is no full disarmament without régime-change.
He did nothing about the Enron, Worldcom, etc. scandals.
What could he have done but respond retroactively?
He cut taxes for the rich, and cut programs for the poor.
That’s always been a staple of the Republican ticket.
He promotes destruction of the wall between church and state.
Not necessarily. Support for faith-based charities doesn’t really bring the government into league with any extremists. We’re not going to form the Church of the United States of America here. And perhaps it is time we look to religion. We’ve seen what impact it has elsewhere. Why not pump our money into faith-based initiatives?
He's a liar (eg. "Saddam and his terrorist allies").
Hussein does have terrorist allies as far as I can tell. And if you think you’ve never been lied to by an American President before, you’re quite naïve. Not to mention that Chirac, Schroeder, Putin, and others are far worse by any stretch of the imagination.
He's an ex-cokehead turned born-again. Honestly, when your president has the characteristics of the Bible thumping McDonald's employee who shows up at everyone's high-school reunion, we've got some serious fucking problems.
Oh please. You don’t think early Presidents at one time in their lives smoked opium? Clinton “lit up.”
The people that do his thinking for him are some of the worst, most immoral people on the face of the planet (make no mistake, the real Axis of Evil is Ashcroft, Cheney, and Rumsfeld).
And it’s worse than Chirac, Schroeder, Putin, Hu, and Hussein? We’ve got to have pragmatic people in office.
He's pissed all over the Bill of Rights with this Patriot Act horseshit. Perhaps you haven't noticed that you don't have the right to due process or trial by jury anymore.
These are changing times. Has your daily routine really changed? Now I’m not saying we shouldn’t have handled this with kit gloves or that I like the idea that my Muslim neighbors could be carted off, but I’m saying that even without the Patriot Act, some of this stuff was bound to happen. And by and large, a relatively small percentage of the nation.
You call Bush “the lesser of two evils?”
I agree with Kelly. Gore – nor Nader for that matter – would have been any better. Probably a lot worse.
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Kelly Antilles wrote:We had NO FUCKING ONE to really vote for in the last election. It was either Clinton's lackey who would have just sat around with his thumb up his ass for 4-8 more years and we would have fallen into a deeper recession, or Bush, who should never have gone for a higher office than govenor.
Again I say that you should amend your constitution so that Arnie can run for president. :D
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Sokar
Jedi Master
Posts: 1369
Joined: 2002-07-04 02:24am

Post by Sokar »

Stas Bush wrote:I'm an Imperialist too, if you haven't noticed, Sokar. But the Empire of Star Wars was fighting against the inner Rebellion, not attacking everyone else around like mad.
If you think Europe is not enough to kick USA: oh, come on, may be you're right. But don't make me laugh saying USA could conquer Europe.
The US army is not the best to fight on ground - in fact, US hasn't been in large scale ground engagements since WWII, and their troops were absolutely inferior to German or Russian, although superior to Japanese in all ways.
So if the US come (not for a nuke war - that's another thing), they will have the best of Europe and Russia's ground tech kicking them everywhere they can. And if they have the sea, WE have the ground. No one shall ever step on this continent and conquer it easily. Even if Eurasia loses the war, the USA will be hated and finally destroyed, torn apart, like the USSR.
Edit: First step in a non-nuclear war America-Eurasia? Who can tell?
Im an Imperialist in the way that I want to establish hegemony over this world, not support some fictional bullshit techno wank sci-fi series. Jesus your grasp of english is more tenous than I thought.

Imperialist because I support the 'Galactic Empire", bwahahahahah :lol:

Americans are not the best on the ground huh, really, I suppose that all thoes victories in Western Europe, Korea, and Vietnam were the work of magic faries then eh Stas?

Your defense hinges on the idea that Europe has even parity of tech , which you do not. Or are we falling back on the Russian tradition of human wave assaults to defeat our enemies, trade blood for hollow victory....how very Russian. Also , failure to pass the test of sea power , is generally a recipie for longterm defeat for any power or nation bloc.

USSR torn apart......funny I missed that war/insurrection, oh yeah , it never happened, the USSR died with a whimper as economic bankruptcy did in the largest nation on Earth.

Also, for thoes who have said that the US could not drop all its overseas economic commitments, your very right. However long before we would initialte isolation we would have been facing foriegn mass hostility for some time, and would have begun a staged economic and financial withdrawl for before the outbreak of true hostilities. These shifts in global and US attitudes does not happen overnight, nor would the establishment of hegemony.
BotM
User avatar
Stravo
Official SD.Net Teller of Tales
Posts: 12806
Joined: 2002-07-08 12:06pm
Location: NYC

Post by Stravo »

1. He stole the election in the first place
BZZZZT Wrong, several independent investigations by newspapers in Florida (like the Miami Herald) after the fact recounted and Bush won by an even greater margin than officially reported. Got a problem with him winning an electoral College Victory go complain to the same authors that made up your precious Bill Of Rights. [/quote]
How about the way the Supreme Court stopped the recount and handed the election to Bush? What was he so afraid of?

And that answers my assertion how? He WON the election, whether the Supreme Court handed it to him or not.

2. He's arrogant, stupid, and agressive
SNIFF SNIFF...what's that I smell? Personal opinion masquerading as fact??[/quote]
Actually it's personal opinion being forwarded as an argument. Care to refute it?
Sure, I don't agree. MY personal opinion forwarded as an argument. Where that get us....no where.

3. He turned the world against our country
France and Germany do not the world make and as far as I'm concerned, US interests should never be subservient to world opinion. If you lived here in NYC during 9/11 you would know why some of us are extremely adamant about premepting.
If you think France and Germany are the only countries against this war and against Bush, you're more of a lost cause than I thought. There was a poll across European countries about the most dangerous country in the world and 86 percent responded that they thought it was the U.S. And if you think those New Yorkers are solidified against the war you'll have to explain the 500,000 protestors. By the way, Bush's assertion that Saddam had something to do with 9/11 is not just normal politician double-speak, it's a bold faced lie.

Bush did not say that. Bush says that Sadaam has links to terrorist organizations like Al-Qaeda and as I pointed out and you ignored a terrorist training camp has been blasted by cruise missiles in Northern Iraq. The camp belonged to an organixation that was once fronted by Iran but was eventually disowned and drifted over to Al-Qaeda.

As to the protestors, when you are a community of 20 million in the tristate area AND you are culling from a college city like NYC you WILL get alot of protestors, particularly anti-Bush protestors. 500,000, from an area of 20 million, that doesn't faze me too much. Especially when you consider that this is a liberal bastion. You get 500,000 protestors from the midwest or south and THEN we'll talk.


The UN failed to enforce its own resolutions, because they lack the will we should as well? And since when is it bad to take out an evil dictator that is oppressing his people with torture and rape? Have YET to hear a good argument about that.[/color][/quote]
I have yet to hear a shred of evidence to suggest that this is our motivation for going to war and not a combination of economic interests and Realpolitik. Even if it were the reason, 1) there are other, more brutal dictators, and 2) we have a long history of leaving bad places twice as bad as we found them.

BUT you have not answered the assertion have you, since the operation IS called Iraqi freedom AND the administration has stated that one of the objectives is the LIBERATION of Iraq thus how can you side with the dictator that does what I outlined?? There are more brutal dictators. Ok tell that to the mother whose son was fed to a human meatgrinder in an Iraqi prison, or the daughter raped brutally by Sadaam's henchmen because her fathjer defected or is a political prisoner. "Sorry, you see since there are other brutal dictators out there we cannot intervene."
Oh a LONG history eh? I guess Japan is FAR worse off than it was when we occupied it. Germany, what a shit hole after our occupation. South Korea, god what a mess we made there. Hey, how about this...stop talking out of your ass..




4. He's taken us to war at the cost of the lives of soldiers with bright futures for bullshit reasons.
PREEMPTION. The Bush Doctrine. If you lost friends in those towers as I have you would know that we better damn well hit them first and hit them hard.[/quote]
Who's "them"? If you're talking about Al-Qaeda, OK, if you're talking about Iraq, you're a moron.

Ah, sticks and stones. ALL TERRORISTS. In case you were fucking sleeping after 9/11 this is a war on TERROR NOT AL-Qaeda. Funny that you can see all the insidious links between Bush and all the evils of the US but you can't see the links between terror and the governments that sponsor them. WHere the fuck do you think they train, get their weapons, recruit??? Oz???

As for his WMD (we gave him both weapons and knowledge of how to build his own by the way), the weapons' inspectors have found zero evidence for that. I agree that he probably has them, but you can't use assumptions as evidence on the world scene. That's a very dangerous precedent to set.

And IF we did give him the weapons and the knowledge does that not give us the imperative to remove them from him and correct our mistakes??


6. He cut taxes for the rich, and cut programs for the poor.
He cut taxes for EVERYONE. I saw a significant boost in my refund this year and I am hardly rich. And besides, lets be honest, because a man makes more he needs to pay more than the next man. As I rose up in tax brackets I began to lament hightaxes so I can imagine what people like gates and others think. They already pay quite a fair share, let's punish success shall we?[/quote]
Apparently sympathy is a foreign concept to you.

No, because I have yet to see the poor driven into the streets or the slash and burn you claim is going on for the poor. Welfare rolls are not being slashed, point in fact welfare rolls have increased here in NYC. Taxing the rich, despite liberal propaganda to the contrary does not solve our economic or social programs. And since when did the rich give up their right to have equal voices in this society? They can't bitch about taxes because their rich? I see equality only swings one way with you.


8. He's a liar (eg. "Saddam and his terrorist allies").
Oh yes...that's right...NO ONE ELSE lies. Oh god, Clinton NEVER lied...he just asked us what the meaning of "is" was. :roll: By the way, a terrorist camp was struck by cruise missiles in Northern Iraq killing about a hundred terrorist fighters. If you're going to come up with an example of his lying please actually find one.[/quote]
I just provided one. Are you blind? He got up on national television and used the words "Saddam and his terrorist allies". Despite over a year of desperate searching for links between Saddam and terrorist organizations, not a shred of evidence has been found. The propaganda department is trying to make Americans think (and succeeding) that Saddam is in the same camp as the people who attacked the WTC. That's a damned dirty lie, the kind that gets thousands of people killed.


Are you blind or did you not read what I wrote. I said a terrorist training camp was attcaked and destroyed IN NORTHERN IRAQ. This terrorist training camp has been linked to Al-Qaeda after the organization was cut loose by Iran years ago. An Al-Qaeda operative was linked to Baghdad several months ago and traveled to Paris where he dropped off recipe books for Ricin. The Paris police arrested his cell there but promply kept it quite for fear of panic (and to try and stop any bolstering of Bush's argument that Iraq has terrorst ties.) This is a war on Terror. At no time did we ever say that we were limiting our operations against Al-Qeada.

9. He's an ex-cokehead turned born-again. Honestly, when your president has the characteristics of the Bible thumping McDonald's employee who shows up at everyone's high-school reunion, we've got some serious fucking problems.
Yes, because redemption can never happen and people can never change their ways. Nice view of humanity there....remind me to ask you for counseling when someone dies in my family.

You definitely don't want to talk to me when someone dies, because I'll tell you that there's no soul, no heaven, no reincarnation, they're gone forever, and you know why? Because it's the fucking truth, and if you expect me to tell the Emperor what a nice suit he's wearing, you can kiss my ass.

I am NOT going to get dragged into an argunment about belief but suffice it to say that you can't prove that there isn't one and I can't prove that there is. The country is predominately believers whether you like it or not.
Wherever you go, there you are.

Ripped Shirt Monkey - BOTMWriter's Guild Cybertron's Finest Justice League
This updated sig brought to you by JME2
Image
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Sokar wrote:Also, for thoes who have said that the US could not drop all its overseas economic commitments, your very right. However long before we would initialte isolation we would have been facing foriegn mass hostility for some time, and would have begun a staged economic and financial withdrawl for before the outbreak of true hostilities. These shifts in global and US attitudes does not happen overnight, nor would the establishment of hegemony.
So you blow your brains out SLOWLY You are still dead at the end of it.
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
Post Reply