Sci-Fi's The Expanse (spoilers)

[biostem]

You think government regulation for engineering field testing would've made a bit of difference in "Oh crap, I wasn't expecting that!"? And you think anybody but the designer would be more qualified to test the system themselves?

If we're talking about a vessel here, what makes you think an engineer, even the one that designed said vessel, would be that good of a pilot? Surely the designers of a modern jet engine don't necessarily know how to get a jet out of a flat spin or have the training to endure the G-forces...

[Gaidin]

You think government regulation for engineering field testing would've made a bit of difference in "Oh crap, I wasn't expecting that!"? And you think anybody but the designer would be more qualified to test the system themselves?

If we're talking about a vessel here, what makes you think an engineer, even the one that designed said vessel, would be that good of a pilot? Surely the designers of a modern jet engine don't necessarily know how to get a jet out of a flat spin or have the training to endure the G-forces...

I wouldn't have him as the pilot. Pilot is take-off, landing, and possibly course plotting in this series. This guy is hooking up his system correctly and flipping a switch. You put someone else in that ship you're adding a line:

"Well guys, I wish for god's sake we could call the engineer that designed this thing because I have no fucking clue what just happened. But we can't. Looks like we're fucked. Settle in."

[Gaidin]

If we're talking about a vessel here, what makes you think an engineer, even the one that designed said vessel, would be that good of a pilot? Surely the designers of a modern jet engine don't necessarily know how to get a jet out of a flat spin or have the training to endure the G-forces...

On second thought, I want to ask you a relevant question:

Guess me a ratio of engineering field tests that result in the starship titanic without a fiction author gaming the system. And this is based on the idea that yes, we do these field tests because we find that simulation data is wrong with labs, and then labs are wrong with field tests.

That's without a law or policy saying "Engineers shallt not field test their own designs".

[biostem]

If we're talking about a vessel here, what makes you think an engineer, even the one that designed said vessel, would be that good of a pilot? Surely the designers of a modern jet engine don't necessarily know how to get a jet out of a flat spin or have the training to endure the G-forces...

On second thought, I want to ask you a relevant question:

Guess me a ratio of engineering field tests that result in the starship titanic without a fiction author gaming the system. And this is based on the idea that yes, we do these field tests because we find that simulation data is wrong with labs, and then labs are wrong with field tests.

That's without a law or policy saying "Engineers shallt not field test their own designs".

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. I'm basing my answer on what I've read regarding actual field tests of things like prototype aircraft. I can't speak to such tests regarding larger ocean vessels...

[Darth Nostril]

I'm basing my answer on what I've read regarding actual field tests of things like prototype aircraft.

This isn't a prototype craft, it's a secondhand yacht the engineer got for a song after the owner died, with a gizmo bolted to the existing propulsion system to try to increase its efficiency.
Oh and he's working on it in his spare time.
It's the equivalent of some guy tinkering with a car in his garage at the weekends trying to coax some extra mpg out of it.

[Gaidin]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. I'm basing my answer on what I've read regarding actual field tests of things like prototype aircraft. I can't speak to such tests regarding larger ocean vessels...

A prototype aircraft has a whole damn team of engineers these days. Am I not allowed to presume that type of design style continues into the future? We're talking about one man who designed one new type of engine that he could hook up to a spacecraft with a whole damn crew.

[FireNexus]

First four episodes up online. Syfy seems to have released episodes 3 and 4 early, but since episode 2 waited until scheduled air, I'd say it was a glitch. The second and third episode seem to have dialed back the density a bit, but I think it's mostly because the world doesn't need to be established in forty minutes in those.

[biostem]

I've watched up to episode 3 thus far. I like the series, but a few things still seem off to me. First of all, if the really tall Belters have such an issue with normal Earth gravity, then shouldn't they be significantly weaker and frailer than regular humans? I can't imagine that they'd have as easy a time as they did doing what they did at the end of Ep 3, (trying to avoid spoilers).

I am a bit unclear as to what the issue is with the detective guy - there was some mention of him "not getting the good bone density juice" as a baby - so does that mean he was born in low or zero-G? Is he a Belter who's trying to conceal that fact or something?

While I certainly understand the rationing of water, it seems odd that they'd have full blown showers for someone as low ranking as the detective, (unless he snuck into some wealthy person's room to use it, I suppose). It also annoyed me that he wouldn't at least stop the water flow while he was lathering up, (though, again, it could just be a way to depict his dickishness).

Am I correct in my take-away that Ceres station is controlled by Earth? Is it supposed to be that Earth is drying up or something, or is it just that the planet has basically been trashed, and it's at the point where even their advanced technology can't reverse the effects?

[FireNexus]

As far as the belters, the load of the acceleration is what hurts them. They can train their muscles to be strongish, but their circulatory and pulmonary systems just aren't made for life at g. In low g, Spoiler

they should have a relative advantage over an earther in terms of maneuvering, and they'll be used to the coriolis from the spin. The bad neighborhoods are where that would be worst, so he'd also have some vertigo. Even ignoring those assumptions (which are based on the book's descriptions of spin relative to neighborhoods, where I forget if the scene in question even took place) it's not that hard to jump one guy if you have four and the element of surprise, even if that guy's got superhero strength by your standards.

Miller's shower, I dunno. Probably a plot device to describe the water problem. The water should be fully recyclable, so the rationing must have to do with efficiency losses in that process, added to the relative expense of water from private contractors when Mars would be willing to pay more

The water from the belt was taken for use on Mars and probably Luna. Earth has more water than they know what to do with (so much they're building sea walls). The water is used for air, reaction mass for engines and probably hydrogen for fusion. By the time of the series, they've been mining the belt for the better part of a century, so Ceres has been fully dried up. With their ability to accelerate at 5-10gs indefinitely, I don't know why they can't take water from Earth, but I don't know too much about how their engines work or how hard of a thrust you need to break Earth gravity. It may just be cheaper to get it from the rings of Saturn.

Mars, at the start, was an earth colony. So the Ceres water being directed to Mars before their independence is reasonable. Especially since the Epstein drive wasn't around initially, so any outside water for Mars or Luna had to come from a space-based source no matter what.

[The Romulan Republic]

Finally caught an episode of this show, with the fourth episode, "CQB".

I'm not a fan of the darkly lit, grungy visual style as a rule (and I think its overused these days) and it felt fairly slow-paced, but aside from that it was... okay. A somewhat realistic political science fiction series is a kind of thing to draw my interest, and the end of the episode was fairly good, if perhaps a little implausible (why didn't the escaping ship just get shot down)?

I was a little unsure as to what was going on, not having seen the preceding episodes, but I was able to pick up a fair amount of the plot, and it was good enough that I'd be willing to watch another one.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Oh. My. God.

Yes. YAAAASSS

Needless to say, I nerdgasmed. A great deal.

First of all, if the really tall Belters have such an issue with normal Earth gravity, then shouldn't they be significantly weaker and frailer than regular humans?

Not necessarily, and yes. The ones raised off Ceres or some other rotating station are going to have reduced bone density (unless medicated), and will have longer spinal columns and long bones (less compression force). But their muscles still have to work against momentum to do things, so they can strength train. Their cardiopulmonary systems wont be as good either because their heart does not have to work against gravity.

They can, just like we can, be trained to cope with higher G forces, but their tolerances might not be as high.

I am a bit unclear as to what the issue is with the detective guy - there was some mention of him "not getting the good bone density juice" as a baby - so does that mean he was born in low or zero-G? Is he a Belter who's trying to conceal that fact or something?

He is a Belter, but an orphan who was raised as a ward of the station, which makes him more loyal to earth than OPA members, but not entirely unsympathetic to the conditions under which belters live.

Am I correct in my take-away that Ceres station is controlled by Earth? Is it supposed to be that Earth is drying up or something, or is it just that the planet has basically been trashed, and it's at the point where even their advanced technology can't reverse the effects?

Earth is, yes. The biosphere is not in good shape, but think about it for a second. Water is used for everything. Drinking water, hydrogen for fusion reactors, air, etc etc etc. It is MUCH easier to fuel your asteroid mines using belt ice than it is to ship water from earth.

[K. A. Pital]

I read two of the four Expanse books. Being honest, they are well-written and interesting. But they are also extremely depressive. Religious cults with enough money to build superships, systemwide rampant and exploitative capitalism, dirty politics and a state of ultra-militarized cosmos... All this makes my inner captain Picard very sad.

That said, the pilot episode was good, so I will try watching the full thing once the season is complete.

[Parallax]

Currently up to episode four and so far I'm quietly impressed.
The setting has been nicely established, with some nice parallel plots.
The FX, especially for a TV show, are high quality - especially the spaceeship shots.
The quality of the acting is also solid across the board.

[Batman]

Episode 4. Loving it so far. The VFX are surprisingly good, the acting is solid, the setting is interesting, and as for water being scare when Earth is lousy with it...all of that water is at the bottom of a gravity well AND inside a biosphere that's pretty fragile. So do you dump a lot of heat and likely toxic (and possibly radioactive) rocket exhaust into that biosphere to get that water out...or do you fetch it from outsystem, when all that heat and exhaust just disperse into empty space?

[Gaidin]

Episode 4. Loving it so far. The VFX are surprisingly good, the acting is solid, the setting is interesting, and as for water being scare when Earth is lousy with it...all of that water is at the bottom of a gravity well AND inside a biosphere that's pretty fragile. So do you dump a lot of heat and likely toxic (and possibly radioactive) rocket exhaust into that biosphere to get that water out...or do you fetch it from outsystem, when all that heat and exhaust just disperse into empty space?

Well, as you say, why fight the polluted gravity well when there's huge giant chunks of ice orbiting Saturn? Oh and Saturn's even closer than Earth.

[Thanas]

I really love the show. A worthy successor to NBSG IMO. And I am way intrigued by all the political stuff. TBH, what currently stretches my imagination a bit is that somebody manages to build a fleet in secret that can take on the Martian flagship. It'd be like some entity building a fleet of warships in 1918 that can take on the Hood.

EDIT: BTW, was that Martian lieutenant an empath or telepath? Seemed like it.

[Gaidin]

I really love the show. A worthy successor to NBSG IMO. And I am way intrigued by all the political stuff. TBH, what currently stretches my imagination a bit is that somebody manages to build a fleet in secret that can take on the Martian flagship. It'd be like some entity building a fleet of warships in 1918 that can take on the Hood.

EDIT: BTW, was that Martian lieutenant an empath or telepath? Seemed like it.

He was taking, iirc the book chapter that that was, a drug that speeds up mind processing so he could basically not only not forget every bit of information, but also catch every little reaction and micro-reaction.

Also, re secret fleets: one of their big themes is how big the system is and how small even the capital ships are relative to it. But to go deeper into it requires going ahead into book territory and since spoiler boxes aren't exactly working...

[Thanas]

OK, thanks for clearing that up. I am still skeptical with regard to the possibility of some unknown secret entity being able to build a secret fleet taking on the flagship of a nation. Comparing how much money and skill is required to build those - I am very skeptical with regards to that right now.

[K. A. Pital]

I personally felt the Abraham novels are quite realistic in the "who can build large military vessels" bit. Can't say more without utterly spoilering the plot, sorry. I also found the novel series' plot superior to the BSG storyline, so if transferred to screen more or less faithfully, many great moments await

[Alyrium Denryle]

OK, thanks for clearing that up. I am still skeptical with regard to the possibility of some unknown secret entity being able to build a secret fleet taking on the flagship of a nation. Comparing how much money and skill is required to build those - I am very skeptical with regards to that right now.

I can think of a few ways it could work. There is secret and then there is secret. The right hand does not necessarily know what the left hand is doing. The governments of earth or mars could be complicit in some way, but only a faction with de facto control of a shipyard. Alternatively a large corporation with its own shipyards could be making a power play. A faction of the OPA (they are everywhere, but factionated very heavily) may have teamed up with Tycho station, concealing the building of those ships using the Mormon generation ship. etc etc etc

[Thanas]

I don't see the governments of Earth and Mars being that stupid not to keep tabs on shipyards capable of building warships. You can't build those things in secret really, too large, too many components needed.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I don't see the governments of Earth and Mars being that stupid not to keep tabs on shipyards capable of building warships. You can't build those things in secret really, too large, too many components needed.

Well, they sometimes cant. Say you've got a private shipyard out in somewhere around Saturn. Oh sure, it is an earth corporation and at least nominally loyal to you, but its entire crew is going to be belters who want their independence and the distance is so great (even with their drive system) that it is not feasible to get to them. They could suborn or even kill the earther command staff, even fabricate extremely convincing video in burst transmissions, and there would be no way to know, and certainly nothing much you could do about it that far past the asteroid belt.

You have a faction of your government (republicans) in bed with a blackwateresque security contractor with diversified assets (shipyard) and parts of your military are deeply involved in this faction. Assets get directed to the contractor, the contractor builds ships, and everything looks above board to an outside observer. You transfer people around to different units until the crews of a few ships (and these crews are not huge) are in your faction, and if you have to, you can treat the crew itself like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed shit) and by carefully controlling what they know, you can get them to believe whatever it is you want them to believe is going on in the outside world.

Or a corporation/OPA built a shipyard without telling anyone.

Remember too, these ships are fragile. These are not SW battleships, they are mostly hard scifi battleships. No shields, a railgun shot goes straight through the hull, fusion bombs are an unholy terror. A flight of corvettes and a missile frigate can overwhelm the point defense of a lone battleship and get anti-ship missiles against the naked hull, and it is game over. The BB might take some of those ships with it, but the only thing that makes it more durable than them is its mass, which is not much of a problem for a 20 mt nuke.

[Parallax]

It may also be a case, though it is hard to say, that Earth is paying so much attention to Mars and the goings-on there that they may miss things they're not actually looking for - like a secretive third faction.

[K. A. Pital]

I don't see the governments of Earth and Mars being that stupid not to keep tabs on shipyards capable of building warships. You can't build those things in secret really, too large, too many components needed.

The Solar system is big, and the independent installations that were used to facilitate colonization are spread over it. There are yards.

[Gaidin]

Let's get our sense of scale and technology correct here.

Asking why a society that hasn't discovered, or maybe won't discover, FTL yet is losing things in our huge solor system is the same thing as asking why the Republic in Star Wars is losing things in it's Galaxy with its technology.