Pre-industrial Fantasy STGOD OOC/Rules Thread:

[Jub]

Even though you've already worked out something with Esquire from the looks of it, I'd also be down for having another splinter cell of rogue elves near my territory. For one thing, the Wanderers are considerably closer to Fusang than the Ottoman territories. I also made a reference in my backstory to drug cartels operating out of the Emerald Triangle; perhaps this particular group of rogue elves is trying to muscle in on the Emerald Triangle drug trade.

My out and out slavers would pay the cartels for those who wind up crossing them. After all, a trip to Tarn is a fate worse than death, and who doesn't want to get paid for getting rid of people.

[The Romulan Republic]

Even if Raw Shark's not interested, I'd like to use my "Rogue elvish necromancers" idea. Is anyone else interested in roleplaying a minor incursion into their territory by elvish dark wizards exiled from my people?

Even though you've already worked out something with Esquire from the looks of it, I'd also be down for having another splinter cell of rogue elves near my territory. For one thing, the Wanderers are considerably closer to Fusang than the Ottoman territories. I also made a reference in my backstory to drug cartels operating out of the Emerald Triangle; perhaps this particular group of rogue elves is trying to muscle in on the Emerald Triangle drug trade.

That could work, though I have to keep the number of such groups down- the cost is going to come out of my points, so every such splinter group I create is that much less I can spend on my actual nation's military.

I might be able to manage a second small one, though. Your idea sounds interesting.

[Simon_Jester]

Mm. I'd say they should only count out of your points if they could plausibly ever end up adding to your nation's strength. Otherwise they're just NPCs, and that's absolutely fine. Creating situations where one player runs an NPC state with the consent of the PC nation fighting them is a good way to create conflict and interesting stories. We had a lot of fun with that a couple of times in SDNW4, for instance.

I'm hurt the Hyenorks didn't get to join the force sub fun

Like the Aztecs, only with more fur and saga poetry? For once they're fighting something against which using stone weapons rather than iron is not even slightly a disadvantage.

Based on the description of the '8th plane' for demons I spent an enforced 30min in a coffee shop sketching out a possible, completely speculative system of magic that covers everything people have written so far (I think). Like the first periodic table, it also has some interesting holes that might make for some good plot hooks - would people be interested if I posted it as a story post - say by Osbourne The Unreliable, Arcane Researcher in a little regarded Orion university?

Say what you like, though I reserve the right to ignore it.

I didn't specify whether the Eighth Plane is the eighth of some small number of planes total, the eighth of a set of planes specifically inhabited by demons, or the eighth plane in some arbitrary nomenclature system equivalent to the Messier catalog. And I didn't do all those things for good reasons.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, I could go the NPC route. I just don't want to cheat and give myself extra units outside my faction's points.

But the only way rogue necromancer terrorists would be likely to contribute to my faction's military would be if the current government was overthrown.

[Zwinmar]

I have had an idea for a magic system simmering for some time now, may just utilize it. B

asically it is as follow:

You have your Mage, typical clothy with no real weapons, and can't defend himself while casting.
The Mage has two vital companions:
The Sentinel: While this can be a physical fighter, and perhaps should be, they guard the Mages mind from the hostile entities which will (not might) attack while the Mage is casting. They would be far more rare in that they can see into the aether (or whatever you wish to call it) and empower their weapons to do the same, except for the fact that without them the Mage would be consumed after reaching a certain point of power.

The Vanguard: This is a bodyguard who protects the Mage's physically. While a Mage could technically go without this it leaves the Mage exceptionally vulnerable.

I need to develop it a bit more but what do you guys think?

[Beowulf]

...

Hey, good idea putting your ORBAT in your Dropbox. I should do that too.

For those interested, I'm using MDwiki for the wiki software, and there's instructions on how to host in the tutorial section.

On a different note, Hessian mercenaries are known as cost effective.

[madd0ct0r]

I have had an idea for a magic system simmering for some time now, may just utilize it. B

asically it is as follow:

You have your Mage, typical clothy with no real weapons, and can't defend himself while casting.
The Mage has two vital companions:
The Sentinel: While this can be a physical fighter, and perhaps should be, they guard the Mages mind from the hostile entities which will (not might) attack while the Mage is casting. They would be far more rare in that they can see into the aether (or whatever you wish to call it) and empower their weapons to do the same, except for the fact that without them the Mage would be consumed after reaching a certain point of power.

The Vanguard: This is a bodyguard who protects the Mage's physically. While a Mage could technically go without this it leaves the Mage exceptionally vulnerable.

I need to develop it a bit more but what do you guys think?

i like it. how fixed are the compaions - do they rotate out, get married to each other, act as work colleahues or something more mentally intimiate?

[Simon_Jester]

Well, I could go the NPC route. I just don't want to cheat and give myself extra units outside my faction's points.

But the only way rogue necromancer terrorists would be likely to contribute to my faction's military would be if the current government was overthrown.

Well then, they don't seem to be strengthening you in any way.

Your points measure your strength, not that of others who just happen to be the same species as you. It's not cheating if the people you're whipping up are not your friends and the people fighting them agree on that.

I have had an idea for a magic system simmering for some time now, may just utilize it.

Basically it is as follow:

You have your Mage, typical clothy with no real weapons, and can't defend himself while casting.
The Mage has two vital companions:
The Sentinel: While this can be a physical fighter, and perhaps should be, they guard the Mages mind from the hostile entities which will (not might) attack while the Mage is casting. They would be far more rare in that they can see into the aether (or whatever you wish to call it) and empower their weapons to do the same, except for the fact that without them the Mage would be consumed after reaching a certain point of power.

The Vanguard: This is a bodyguard who protects the Mage's physically. While a Mage could technically go without this it leaves the Mage exceptionally vulnerable.

I need to develop it a bit more but what do you guys think?

It sounds like a good practice for your noble-orcs' magic, which is heavily influenced by shamanism and so on. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't want to assume that just any wizard can expect to be randomly attacked by supernatural creatures while casting spells.

Ohioan wizards generally aren't. Magic as practiced in Ohio is a somewhat atrophied art, but one that focuses heavily on elaborate runic set-pieces and geometric wards. Power flows slowly but in a stable manner, and the results tend to be both predictable and boring.

Among other things, this makes magic easier to police, so the emperor's agents tend to tacitly encourage wizards to behave this way.

[Simon_Jester]

Maddoc's magic system is beautiful in its weird over-simplicity, and the lecturer is Doctor Nickish in his goofiness.

I enjoyed reading it tremendously, and will take a certain perverse pleasure in ignoring the system thus outlined entirely.

Well, I could go the NPC route. I just don't want to cheat and give myself extra units outside my faction's points.

But the only way rogue necromancer terrorists would be likely to contribute to my faction's military would be if the current government was overthrown.

Well then, they don't seem to be strengthening you in any way.

Your points measure your strength, not that of others who just happen to be the same species as you. It's not cheating if the people you're whipping up are not your friends and the people fighting them agree on that.

I have had an idea for a magic system simmering for some time now, may just utilize it.

Basically it is as follow:

You have your Mage, typical clothy with no real weapons, and can't defend himself while casting.
The Mage has two vital companions:
The Sentinel: While this can be a physical fighter, and perhaps should be, they guard the Mages mind from the hostile entities which will (not might) attack while the Mage is casting. They would be far more rare in that they can see into the aether (or whatever you wish to call it) and empower their weapons to do the same, except for the fact that without them the Mage would be consumed after reaching a certain point of power.

The Vanguard: This is a bodyguard who protects the Mage's physically. While a Mage could technically go without this it leaves the Mage exceptionally vulnerable.

I need to develop it a bit more but what do you guys think?

It sounds like a good practice for your noble-orcs' magic, which is heavily influenced by shamanism and so on. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't want to assume that just any wizard can expect to be randomly attacked by supernatural creatures while casting spells.

Ohioan wizards generally aren't. Magic as practiced in Ohio is a somewhat atrophied art, but one that focuses heavily on elaborate runic set-pieces and geometric wards. Power flows slowly but in a stable manner, and the results tend to be both predictable and boring.

Among other things, this makes magic easier to police, so the emperor's agents tend to tacitly encourage wizards to behave this way.

[Eternal_Freedom]

MAddoctor: Now that I like, and it fits with the tone of Orion just perfectly, well done!

Simon: "Your men will fight bravely, but will still be on fire in large numbers." For some reason that made me snort lemonade allover my desk in laughter, you bastard.

[Esquire]

Yeah, I lol'd too.

Since we're on the subject, Ottoman magic is a little different from the "secular" style discussed; all of our supernatural powers come from - or are supposed to come from - the River God. The two major schools are the Calligraphers and the Dervishes. The first imbues magical effects into objects through etching or weaving Koranic verses into them, with the skill of the artist and the quality of the materials both having a major influence on the strength of the effect. A ripple-steel sword with gold-inlaid etchings will be a much-superior weapon, compared with an iron sword with baked-enamel calligraphic script, for example, even if the verses used are exactly the same. It's theorized that this is because the River God is more inclined to reward those who dedicate great effort or riches to His worship, which has a few unpleasant implications that the Sultanate has been studiously not looking into for centuries.

As a few examples of the possibilities of Ottoman item-based magic, a sword might be supernaturally sharp and light; a mace might blast unbelievers or supernatural foes with the force of the Great River itself; armor might grant extra strength to its wearer; a jeweled turban might grant its wearer extra clarity of thought; a cloak might promote comfort and endurance on the march; a banner might inspire troops to fight longer and harder; tile plating for warships might deflect cannon fire or ease the ship's passage through the water.

Dervishes, meanwhile, are warrior-monks, basically what would happen if Avatar's benders crossbred with the Jedi Knights. When they whirl, they call upon the mystic currents of the Great River to summon or control water, lightning, and air,* with some advanced practitioners capable of (very limited) precognition or telepathy. Master Dervishes are the closest things to traditional magicians the Ottomans are really comfortable with, though they are far less powerful than more overt spellcasters. A dervish, fighting with spell-etched weapons and armor, wearing spellwoven robes and riding a spell-branded giant alligator under a spell-woven banner, is perhaps the most terrifying thing a potential enemy of the Empire might face - that, or the full Grand Battery of a Janissary division.

*Originally, it was just water, but philosophical investigations revealed a link between water and air, exemplified by rainclouds, and then with lightning as a product of the interaction of the two.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hoping to have at least a basic/preliminary OOB up by tomorrow, which should give you an idea of where you stand in a fight against me.

[Imperial528]

My apologies that I've not been very involved, trying to get an OOB done today.

[Simon_Jester]

Imperial528, your participation will be profoundly welcome, especially by me and, I suspect, by E_F. We look forward to seeing your order of battle. Since we still haven't fixed the editing problem, linking to a changeable document on a wiki, a Google doc, or a Dropbox account may still be the best course of action.

I myself will need some time to work on that, although I've got some ideas.

[madd0ct0r]

Oob s up. Might be worth a look for neighbours, I added a bunch of new units and some environmental monsters. Ill tell you though, i wouldnt have been this active without being on a sort of holiday. I'm hugely enjoying the posts this time, instead of just feeling guilty for not keeping up. There's some fantastic writers on this board.

[Zwinmar]

I certainly am not attempting to tell others how to run their own, it is a magic system I have been pondering for some time now.

Suposition: perhaps the mages with this system are drawing on something like Nietzsche's void and as a result they need protection not to become an abomination.

[Jub]

I'm probably going to put up my next story post sometime in the next day or two. If anybody needs the rough details of the post to work with let me know.

[Simon_Jester]

[Reads maddoc's, grunts approvingly]

Have you been reading Norse sagas lately?

On a side note which is not meant even slightly to detract from the considerable artistic merit, I personally don't count stockades and other fixed defenses as costing points unless you can hit someone with them, or unless they directly result in troop casualties.

Thus, Guillory's tower had point value in Guillory's hands because he'd stored magical power there and could use it (unsuccessfully) against the Regiment du Fayette. He could use it to kill people.

It was worthless to Xazonar because that pool of energy had been expended and whatever remaining trinkets or information were left would have been useless to such a proficient magician, even had the tower not been smashed into rubble by the Ohioan artillery (seriously, it was a medieval-vintage construction and was probably no more than a few winters away from collapsing into rubble anyway, or it would have withstood more than two vollies from the regiment's six guns).

Also, the sacking of the encampment with the loss of only two warriors out of eighteen suggests that you had them outgunned, pointswise. It is actually very consistent with what you'd expect if, oh, the palisade wasn't worth any points and the crossbow hunters were valued lower. Which would be appropriate; they may be killers but they're not soldiers and would not be experienced at fighting to cover one another in combat, making it easy for the hyenorcs to pick them off by working together as a pack.

This is my philosophy- a formation of X points which engages and defeats a formation of X points will usually be badly damaged in the process. By contrast, a formation of 2X points might defeat the same opposition with fewer losses- at least, assuming their greater power can be brought to bear all at once. Something like the Lanchester Laws would seem to be appropriate, except when the iron laws of dramatic necessity dictate otherwise.

[The Romulan Republic]

OOB is finally up, thank God.

[The Romulan Republic]

Note: I do understand my OOB is a little scant on background information, but I wanted to get it up fast. There's quite a bit more background information scattered around the various threads, but I may compile it, or some of it at least, into a second "world-building" addendum to my main OOB at a future date (presuming I can't edit my current OOB).

[madd0ct0r]

[Reads maddoc's, grunts approvingly]

Have you been reading Norse sagas lately?

On a side note which is not meant even slightly to detract from the considerable artistic merit, I personally don't count stockades and other fixed defenses as costing points unless you can hit someone with them, or unless they directly result in troop casualties.

Thus, Guillory's tower had point value in Guillory's hands because he'd stored magical power there and could use it (unsuccessfully) against the Regiment du Fayette. He could use it to kill people.

It was worthless to Xazonar because that pool of energy had been expended and whatever remaining trinkets or information were left would have been useless to such a proficient magician, even had the tower not been smashed into rubble by the Ohioan artillery (seriously, it was a medieval-vintage construction and was probably no more than a few winters away from collapsing into rubble anyway, or it would have withstood more than two vollies from the regiment's six guns).

Also, the sacking of the encampment with the loss of only two warriors out of eighteen suggests that you had them outgunned, pointswise. It is actually very consistent with what you'd expect if, oh, the palisade wasn't worth any points and the crossbow hunters were valued lower. Which would be appropriate; they may be killers but they're not soldiers and would not be experienced at fighting to cover one another in combat, making it easy for the hyenorcs to pick them off by working together as a pack.

This is my philosophy- a formation of X points which engages and defeats a formation of X points will usually be badly damaged in the process. By contrast, a formation of 2X points might defeat the same opposition with fewer losses- at least, assuming their greater power can be brought to bear all at once. Something like the Lanchester Laws would seem to be appropriate, except when the iron laws of dramatic necessity dictate otherwise.

Hmm, agreeed on the palisade. It did mean they took more hits then an open gate would have given them.
I took two Hyenork casualties, but they only took 4 themselves (and quite a few of my hyenorks were looking a bit pincusioned by the end, if it had been a dragged out assault the attrition would have been higher on both sides. The town isn't sacked, just a few houses looted. The cairn system will ensure they're not raided for a few months until there's stuff worth taking, but not enough harm for them to bother moving. It's a form of farming

[Simon_Jester]

Aaaah. I missed the part where the human casualties were relatively light in turn. I always have been a bit iffy on getting all the details out of a poem. Never mind.

[madd0ct0r]

I don't think I really spelled the 4 humans dead out but that's one reason I'm using the poetry - it forces me to write fast. (and yes, I devoured norse sagas while at school).
If the line fits, it doesn't get rewritten more then three times. I thought the line of the hyenorks 'working'(looting) under crossbow fire was enough. The next post, arrival in Orion, should be mixed poetry and prose. The hyenorks are only the heros in their own sagas.

[Simon_Jester]

Here is the last post in the "Pike and Shot" sequence. Please note that the Illinois plainsmen really do dress and wear their hair like that, though they're darker-skinned and somewhat rougher-featured than actual Cossacks of the Ukraine.

The Kaskaskian Host are... colorful.

___________________

Trying to keep track of errata in case I ever do get a chance to fix things:

One is that I forgot Blanchard's first name- "Adrien" is correct.

Also got the position of the cannon wrong- originally pictured them on the flanks of the regiment's line, which is ahistorical for the era, so I moved them in so that they'd be placed in between the ends of the center battalion, and of the left and right battalions.

Anyone else spot anything?

[madd0ct0r]

is this the latest TimC map? http://cizadlo.us/Images/Maps_STGODs/Topo_4.png
Because for me it's coming up with empty white shapes. Is there anyone at Great Bear Lake in the NW? Not sure where the great ice wall would be.

Also, fun fact, I've looked at approx 8 different maps of Nunavut. Everyone of them labels rivers, lakes and coastline with different names and mismatched outlines. Best explanation I've seen so far is a lot of that area is massively unstable from summer to summer, with ice and melt water gouging new rivers on the flatish ground.