Ep7 Reviews (Spoilers)

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, hints but I hope they make him more than 'turned to the dark side because daddy didn't love him enough' because well, Emo Kylo Ren is already a fandom thing, I'd rather it wasn't canon.

What we've seen actually makes a lot of sense, and its a lot more complicated than what you said.

Put it this way:

You have a child who doesn't feel satisfied with the father he has. So he starts looking up to a legendary, infamous grandfather he never knew, seeing him as a substitute father.

Throw in some dark tendencies inherited from said grandfather. His parents get worried, and ship him off for training with Luke. This only increases his sense of alienation from his family, and also exposes him to a boatload of power.

So you have an alienated, bitter youth with lots of power who idolizes a legendary Sith Lord. Now, that might not be enough to make him start a killing spree all on its own, but its hard to stop using the Dark Side once you start. One little step, perhaps with some nudging by Snoke, and he's started down the wrong path.

At that point, he would be at odds with the Jedi, and it wouldn't be hard for Snoke to direct him at a target for his anger and power and ambition, one which suited Snoke's agenda. Namely, his fellow students.

[Elfdart]

This video pretty much sums up why TFA sucks on so many levels. I don't agree with the whole thing, but it's mostly accurate:

[Galvatron]

This video pretty much sums up why TFA sucks on so many levels. I don't agree with the whole thing, but it's mostly accurate:

Good luck changing the minds of all the people who genuinely enjoyed this movie versus the prequels.

[Iroscato]

This video pretty much sums up why TFA sucks on so many levels. I don't agree with the whole thing, but it's mostly accurate:

Good luck changing the minds of all the people who genuinely enjoyed this movie versus the prequels.

Not to mention the OT, over here *waves*.

[Channel72]

^
His entire point is that the movie is too much like ANH, along with not enough exposition to explain the political situation, which everybody already acknowledges. However, even that point is overstated. He starts off being pretty convincing, showing us BB8 and R2-D2 wondering the desert, carrying the MacGuffin - but then his point quickly gets derailed as he has to pull in various plot parallels from different parts of ESB and ROTJ to keep up the "just like ANH" theme.

Regardless, his overall point is valid: TFA is definitely too close to the plot structure of the originals, and the lack of political context is a big sore point. I think everyone can agree that is the greatest failing of TFA. The people that like the film simply don't care - the characters are great and it's so much of a fun Star Wars film that the similarities and lack of political context are basically minor annoyances. The lack of context is also mitigated to an extent by the fact that we know it's supposed to be a trilogy, and later movies can of course fill in the blanks.

The Prequels on the other hand, were original stories, and very different from the OT, which is an awesome feature in isolation - but the people that don't like them simply can't get over their failings, which amount mostly to the characters being too bland and uninteresting, the villains lacking any emotional context, and (most unforgivably) the entire fall of Anakin being shitty because the acting sucks and the character is unlikeable. It really comes down to what you want out of a Star Wars film. If you don't care that much about the characters, but just want cool world building and an original storyline, then yeah, the Prequels will definitely be more enjoyable to you.

Also, I agree - the Starkiller base sucks. The whole thing is a mess and shouldn't have been in this film - if there had to be a First Order superweapon, it should have been saved for later or at least been acknowledged to be something the Empire originally created and the First Order simply made use of. I can also appreciate the point about people watching Star Wars a few years down the line - if you watch them in order, then you watch the end of ROTJ, followed by the end of TFA - the similarities of Han and co. taking down the shield generator while the rebels blow up the Death Star may be a bit too much.

[Channel72]

Also, if we're honest, the ending of ANH is just as riddled with problems introduced via the script writer favoring drama over plausibility. Leia takes the Falcon to Yavin IV, despite strongly suspecting they're being tracked. Then for some reason they don't immediately begin evacuating the base on Yavin IV, instead relying on a 1 in a million chance that they'd be able to exploit the exhaust port flaw. Then after they blow up the Death Star, they stay around for an award ceremony, instead of immediately evacuating anyway - since what's to prevent the nearest Star Destroyer from showing up and blowing their base up from orbit, etc. etc. Yes, I realize there are all kinds of rationalizations available that have popped up over the last 30 years, but I've never found any of them particularly convincing, and even so if this sort of shit happened in TFA, the film would still be criticized for forcing us to come up with rationalizations in the first place.

The point is, people are a lot softer when it comes to the OT, because we've had like 30 years to sort of "absorb" the films, and so a lot of these plot points are things we just take for granted, or else we forgive because it was like the 70s.

[Galvatron]

Regardless, his overall point is valid: TFA is definitely too close to the plot structure of the originals, and the lack of political context is a big sore point. I think everyone can agree that is the greatest failing of TFA.

Is it a failing or is it deliberate? If it's deliberate, was it a bad decision? The political situation as of TESB was even more nebulous than it was in ANH. Did it detract from that movie as well?

[Grumman]

One thing I like is that this film is basically a refutation of the old Jedi Order's despicable attitude that love, attachment, and family are bad.

That refutation is part of the reason I don't like this movie. Luke, Han and Leia already knew this, and so they should not have been forced by authorial fiat to make stupid errors to let their son and nephew fall to the Dark Side just so that Abrams can make explicit something we already know.

Don't make people act out of character for the sake of your message episode.

Kylo Ren should have been an unaffiliated force sensitive who slipped through the cracks caused by Order 66 and the Galactic Civil War. He should have fallen because Luke - the man who brought Darth Vader back from the Dark Side - didn't have the opportunity to teach him.

[Mad]

Is it a failing or is it deliberate? If it's deliberate, was it a bad decision? The political situation as of TESB was even more nebulous than it was in ANH. Did it detract from that movie as well?

The situation in TESB isn't that different from ANH, so it doesn't matter that much. Things have changed quite a bit between ROTJ and TFA, and a lot is unexplained.

Now, it isn't too hard to piece it together. My guesses about the situation after giving in just a tiny bit of thought aren't too far off from what the SW Databank says. I know people don't like the idea that they have to look at supplemental material to get important background information, and I generally agree with that. However, if the obvious, straightforward guess is basically 90% there, then what's the big deal? And if you include the hints that are dropped in during the movie, it's even easier. A failing, yes, but not a drastic one. They went too far in avoiding the politics, but structured things in a way so as to mitigate the lack of detail.

You can also have deliberate decisions that are considered failings. Having Greedo shoot at all in the Special Editions is considered a huge failing by many, and yet having Greedo pull the trigger was a very deliberate decision.

To your point, though, it's also possible that the intent is that we get more detail in the subsequent movies. I'm usually not a fan of what I call the "where are they now, and how did they get there?" mystery plots we see at the beginning of a new season of a TV show or in a sequel to a movie. If you're going to do it, you need a really good mystery. Luke's whereabouts can work, because it's a mystery to other characters. The political situation isn't, so it isn't worth doing. Give some details in the opening crawl or have a couple of throwaway lines giving actual detail instead of hints. (But, yeah, don't do it in the silly "as you already know, other person I, Captain Obvious (who you also know), am talking to, which you also know" way that that is used all too often.)

[Channel72]

The situation in TESB isn't that different from ANH, so it doesn't matter that much. Things have changed quite a bit between ROTJ and TFA, and a lot is unexplained.

Well, I guess we're left to wonder how exactly things are going after the Tarkin doctrine failed. I mean, in ANH there was still a Senate - which was abolished because of the Death Star. After the Death Star blew up, was the Empire like... "uh... just kidding about that keeping systems in line through fear thing... heh heh...". I guess the Imperial Fleet was enough to keep everyone in line, but then why even have a Death Star? (I know, planetary shields or whatever, blah, blah, but the movies don't mention all that.) Anyway, you'd think after ANH the Empire would have it's hands full squashing rebellions everywhere.

[Grumman]

The political situation as of TESB was even more nebulous than it was in ANH. Did it detract from that movie as well?

No, because in The Empire Strikes Back we did see enough about the political situation in the Empire for the plot we were given. We saw the Emperor for the first time, knew that he considered Luke Skywalker a singular threat, and saw the amount of effort the Empire and Vader himself was willing to throw at this rebel base and at capturing Luke in particular. We did not see whether there were uprisings on Imperial planets, but the action never went to any Imperial planet because the story of TESB was about the Rebels hiding from and retreating away from the Empire.

We did not need backstory about the Empire to explain why they responded to the destruction of their flagship with a mere handful of fighters... because they didn't. We saw them send entire fleets of capital ships to deal with the problem, which requires no further explanation than "you just angered a galaxy-spanning Empire."

[Galvatron]

The situation in TESB isn't that different from ANH, so it doesn't matter that much. Things have changed quite a bit between ROTJ and TFA, and a lot is unexplained.

Well, I guess we're left to wonder how exactly things are going after the Tarkin doctrine failed. I mean, in ANH there was still a Senate - which was abolished because of the Death Star. After the Death Star blew up, was the Empire like... "uh... just kidding about that keeping systems in line through fear thing... heh heh...". I guess the Imperial Fleet was enough to keep everyone in line, but then why even have a Death Star? (I know, planetary shields or whatever, blah, blah, but the movies don't mention all that.) Anyway, you'd think after ANH the Empire would have it's hands full squashing rebellions everywhere.

As I've speculated before about the state of the galaxy following the Battle of Yavin and prior to the Battle of Endor...

Furthermore, without the Death Star to "keep the local systems in line," the Empire suddenly had no way to maintain their tight control through fear as planned and, as Leia warned Tarkin, the pissed-off constituent worlds of the ex-Senators started slipping through Palpatine's fingers and became openly rebellious. Hence Mon Cal's direct support of the Alliance by the time of ROTJ.

I can easily imagine that the majority of the Imperial fleet was more than occupied with either blockades and sieges against openly rebellious systems or protecting vital strategic assets from hit-and-run attacks by the rebels themselves.

I'd venture to guess that the bulk of the Imperial Starfleet (I steadfastly refuse to call it the Imperial Navy) was mostly used to surveil and even blockade suspected rebellious, but heavily defended worlds (e.g. Dac). Satisfied that none of those worlds could launch attacks or supply matériel to the rebellion without confirming the Empire's suspicions or exposing themselves to bombardment, their primary objective would then be to locate and destroy the hidden rebel base because that's where all of their offensives originated from.

[Kane Starkiller]

The moment I saw Kylo Ren freeze a blaster bolt midair I knew I was going to enjoy this movie. That move was literally the first time I was impressed by the Force since Return of the Jedi revealed that Emperor can summon lightning.
I guess you can use the Force for something other than jumping around and fancy somersaulting.

[Thanas]

Actually, the reviewer makes a great point regarding Chewie. When Leia learns of Hans death, she and Chewie do not automatically go comfort each other, instead she goes hugging some relative stranger. This bugged me as well.

I find it hard to disagree with any of the points raised here:
https://youtu.be/FNAy7yCMyBw?t=987

[Gandalf]

I was left wondering if the whole "life debt" thing was still canon. It always left me with a weird slavery vibe, that because Han saved Chewie at some point, Han sort of was owed Chewie's life.

So I guess Chewie is free now.

[Batman]

How is it slavery when the whole thing was Chewie's idea? It's not like 'Han' was the one who said 'I saved your life now you owe me.' In fact in the old canon he repeatedly tried to wriggle out of it.
Assuming this Life Debt still exists I'd expect Chewie to transfer it to Leia, Luke or (if she turns out to be a Skywalker) Rey.

[Abacus]

Can we kind of all just agree that Starkiller base is just a weird marriage between the Death Star and the Galaxy Gun? That's what it is.

The only really confusing part is as to why JJ made it so that Han, Finn, and the others could actually *see* the planets blowing up...even though the system that was blown up was suppose to be on practically the opposite side of the galaxy! The novelization and the new informational books they've been releasing all state that Takodana (the planet where Maz's castle/"watering hole") is located is in the Mid-Rim; but the Hosnian System, where the New Republic is now basing it's capitol on Hosnian Prime, is in the Core Worlds...

It's really quite frustrating. If anything, the main cast may have indeed seen the weapon fired -- if Starkiller had been located in the Takodana System (which is kind of silly to have an entire freaking planetoid super weapon chasing after one small freighter when they have access to fleets of capitol ships...) -- but that's it. No one should have known if the New Republic's capitol had been blown up until they hooked up to the HoloNet and received the first few news reports about it happening; but I guess that moves plot along too slow. Heck the Resistence should have been the ones to inform Han and the rest what happened, thus confirming Finn's word saying, "It was the First Order [that just fired their super weapon]."

[Abacus]

I was left wondering if the whole "life debt" thing was still canon. It always left me with a weird slavery vibe, that because Han saved Chewie at some point, Han sort of was owed Chewie's life.

So I guess Chewie is free now.

LOL...no. Chewie's life was saved by Han, to whom he owed his personal life debt. With Han being killed before Chewie could do anything (because he thought Han could bring Ben back to the Light), Chewie has not alternative but to avenge Han. His raison d'etre is now to kill Kylo Ren. It's maybe why he gave Rey a ride to Ahch-To, since he figures that either Luke or Rey will subsequently be going after Kylo Ren, and he wants to be there so he can get a piece of him.

[Abacus]

Something else that I noticed after watching the movie for the 4th time. When re-watching Rey's Force Dream-sequence, I noticed that the ship she saw taking off from Jakku, when she was left there, looked curiously similar to the rear end of the Jade Shadow...just putting that out there.

[Elfdart]

They named a fucking planet Act Two.

[Abacus]

I think it's pronounced "toe" and not "two."

[The Romulan Republic]

Something else that I noticed after watching the movie for the 4th time. When re-watching Rey's Force Dream-sequence, I noticed that the ship she saw taking off from Jakku, when she was left there, looked curiously similar to the rear end of the Jade Shadow...just putting that out there.

If it is, that's a pretty obscure EU reference. Definitely indicates that someone working on this film was more than a casual fan.

Also could be a hint about Rey's parentage, I suppose.

[Borgholio]

The only really confusing part is as to why JJ made it so that Han, Finn, and the others could actually *see* the planets blowing up...even though the system that was blown up was suppose to be on practically the opposite side of the galaxy!

In universe - it's a hyperspace weapon. It could very well be visible from many lightyears away due to hyperspacial funkyness.

Out of universe - JJ has a bad habit of doing that. Look at the Star Trek reboot where you can see Vulcan blow up from Delta Vega.

[The Romulan Republic]

Abrams puts what looks good visually over what make sense narratively. Which is a good bit of evidence that he's more suited to directing than script writing.

[Balrog]

As I've speculated before about the state of the galaxy following the Battle of Yavin and prior to the Battle of Endor...

If you're interested in the Disney Canon version of what happened immediately afterward, the Twilight Company book covers this in part. Basically the Rebellion decides "we've got them on the run now!" and launches a massive assault into the Mid Rim, they capture some territory, and the Empire's goes all "lol nope!" and kicks their ass back into hiding in the Outer Rim. There's more but I would recommend either reading the book or looking through the dedicated thread.