Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Oh boo-hoo, so he disrespected the Oscars, as if they had any respect to dis. Your worldview can't handle criticism, and you resent him for giving it before you had time to set up your mental defenses.
Oh come on, Art, cut the hippie bullshit. I would be in a particularly bad situation if I were not mentally immune to Michael Moore's bullshit rants.
I should note that this is hardly the first time this has happened; both Richard Gere and Vanessa Redgrave received sanctions in the past for using the Oscars as a medium by which to promote their political agenda.
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I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Oh boo-hoo, so he disrespected the Oscars, as if they had any respect to dis. Your worldview can't handle criticism, and you resent him for giving it before you had time to set up your mental defenses.
Nice strawman!
The oscar's is not a place for politics. Those that watch do not want politics. So it is highly inappropriate and disrespectful to those watching to use it as a political platform. But nevermind, it's helping your case, so let's pretend it's okay, hrm?
I really tried to see the strawman, I really did. But alas, I just can't see how "The oscar's is not a place for politics. Those that watch do not want politics. So it is highly inappropriate and disrespectful to those watching to use it as a political platform." does not equal "He disrespected the Oscars".
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Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Oh boo-hoo, so he disrespected the Oscars, as if they had any respect to dis. Your worldview can't handle criticism, and you resent him for giving it before you had time to set up your mental defenses.
Nice strawman!
The oscar's is not a place for politics. Those that watch do not want politics. So it is highly inappropriate and disrespectful to those watching to use it as a political platform. But nevermind, it's helping your case, so let's pretend it's okay, hrm?
I really tried to see the strawman, I really did. But alas, I just can't see how "The oscar's is not a place for politics. Those that watch do not want politics. So it is highly inappropriate and disrespectful to those watching to use it as a political platform." does not equal "He disrespected the Oscars".
Which would be why it's a strawman for you to say I'm claiming he's disrespecting the Oscar's, moron boy.
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Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
Durran Korr wrote:Not to mention that jibe by Steve Martin about his weight.
Of course Moore will consider this censorship or something.
No, he will say it’s an illegal violation of his first amendment rights. Because of course freedom of speech equals a right for you to speak to whoever you want however you want.
Did he get shot & killed? Nope
Was he dragged from the stage, beaten severely and tossed in a jail to rot? Nope
Did they cut the mike and tell him to fuck off and die? Nope
So all that happened was he got booed, rights violation my ass. If he says it is he can go fuck himself if he can find a place to do it in all that blubber.
Flip through the folds 'til you smell shit, then go back 1.
The oscar's is not a place for politics. Those that watch do not want politics. So it is highly inappropriate and disrespectful to those watching to use it as a political platform. But nevermind, it's helping your case, so let's pretend it's okay, hrm?
I really tried to see the strawman, I really did. But alas, I just can't see how "The oscar's is not a place for politics. Those that watch do not want politics. So it is highly inappropriate and disrespectful to those watching to use it as a political platform." does not equal "He disrespected the Oscars".
Which would be why it's a strawman for you to say I'm claiming he's disrespecting the Oscar's, moron boy.
I'm with Nitram on this one. Hol-E shit, it is possible!
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Oh boo-hoo, so he disrespected the Oscars, as if they had any respect to dis. Your worldview can't handle criticism, and you resent him for giving it before you had time to set up your mental defenses.
Timothy McVeigh shared that 'peace loving people of Iraq' view, much like Mr. Moore, what he did took balls. it was also mass murder...
(oops, did i just commit a logical fallacy? boo-frikkety-hoo-hoo)
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:I'm with Nitram on this one. Hol-E shit, it is possible!
It feels so strange.
Hold me.
[Christopher Walken]I insist you buy me a drink first... I mean, it's not like I'm asking for dinner and dancing... not like I'm... asking for a commitment...[/Christopher Walken]
According to Parade, several Academy voters have said that they didn't vote to nominate Gere for Best Supporting Actor in Chicago because they didn't want him to use his acceptance speach as a platform for his political views.
I watched the clip. Wow, he just goes right into it, doesn't he?
I always thought Moore was a arrogant Frothing Liberal (TM)* bastard, and this just affirms my opinion.
*Not saying that all liberals are frothing, but just the frothing ones are.
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Spanky The Dolphin wrote:According to Parade, several Academy voters have said that they didn't vote to nominate Gere for Best Supporting Actor in Chicago because they didn't want him to use his acceptance speach as a platform for his political views.
I watched the clip. Wow, he just goes right into it, doesn't he?
I always thought Moore was a arrogant Frothing Liberal (TM)* bastard, and this just affirms my opinion.
*Not saying that all liberals are frothing, but just the frothing ones are.
How do you change the minds of people, and bring them into your school of thought? With a verbal smack to the head with a lead pipe? nope. He really hurt his cause and reinforced the stereotype of the obnoxious hollywood liberal.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:According to Parade, several Academy voters have said that they didn't vote to nominate Gere for Best Supporting Actor in Chicago because they didn't want him to use his acceptance speach as a platform for his political views.
I watched the clip. Wow, he just goes right into it, doesn't he?
I always thought Moore was a arrogant Frothing Liberal (TM)* bastard, and this just affirms my opinion.
*Not saying that all liberals are frothing, but just the frothing ones are.
How do you change the minds of people, and bring them into your school of thought? With a verbal smack to the head with a lead pipe? nope. He really hurt his cause and reinforced the stereotype of the obnoxious hollywood liberal.
Moore's biggest mistake was in assuming that we've been fed this shit long enough to swallow whatever's thrust at us.
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Oh boo-hoo, so he disrespected the Oscars, as if they had any respect to dis. Your worldview can't handle criticism, and you resent him for giving it before you had time to set up your mental defenses.
I can handle intelligent criticism. However, Micheal Moore is far from that.....he is conspiracy theorist idiot and frankly I feel he deserved more than he got.
Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I applaud what he did. It took a lot of balls to say what people didn't want to hear at such a pomp and ceremony event, and it was something that really needed to be said with all the millions watching.
EDIT: Just read the rest of this thread. I'm seeing a lot of anger and zero logic and rebuttal, which tells me he said exactly what needed to be said.
No, I'm sorry, your just mistaken. He said jack shit. Everything's ficticious, blah blah blah. Boo Bush. Basically what the anti war advocates, not the good ones, but the ones that make it on TV, say all the time. It's against the will of the people. Wait a damn second, when did I elect fat ass to speak on my behalf. Granted I didn't elect Bush either. However...
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OK, enough hot air. Could someone please post the text of what he said? It seems to me that if you're going to logically dissect and criticize what he said, it would be helpful to ... oh, say, ... KNOW WHAT HE SAID!!!
Of course, if you would prefer mindless bashing, I suppose that's your perogative. But I'm a little tired of seeing post after post ranting and raving about something that I haven't seen and for which there has been no transcript or intelligent criticism here.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
I think we need a logical fallacy name for this "anti-American" bullshit. How about "appeal to nationalistic jingoism" or "appeal to geographical pride"?
Damien Sorresso
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Darth Wong wrote:OK, enough hot air. Could someone please post the text of what he said? It seems to me that if you're going to logically dissect and criticize what he said, it would be helpful to ... oh, say, ... KNOW WHAT HE SAID!!!
Of course, if you would prefer mindless bashing, I suppose that's your perogative. But I'm a little tired of seeing post after post ranting and raving about something that I haven't seen and for which there has been no transcript or intelligent criticism here.
Essentially, he said that Bush was a "ficticious president" who stole the election and is now leading the nation in a "ficitious war" again "ficticious adversaries" and that he is against the war.
Damien Sorresso
"Ever see what them computa bitchez do to numbas? It ain't natural. Numbas ain't supposed to be code, they supposed to quantify shit."
- The Onion
Darth Wong wrote:OK, enough hot air. Could someone please post the text of what he said? It seems to me that if you're going to logically dissect and criticize what he said, it would be helpful to ... oh, say, ... KNOW WHAT HE SAID!!!
Of course, if you would prefer mindless bashing, I suppose that's your perogative. But I'm a little tired of seeing post after post ranting and raving about something that I haven't seen and for which there has been no transcript or intelligent criticism here.
There ye go:
Michael Moore wrote:Whoa. On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan from Canada, I'd like to thank the Academy for this. I have invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us, and we would like to — they're here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it's the fictition of duct tape or fictition of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much.
Michael Moore wrote:Whoa. On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan from Canada, I'd like to thank the Academy for this. I have invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us, and we would like to — they're here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it's the fictition of duct tape or fictition of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much.
So THAT'S what all this fuss is about? How long could that have taken to say? 30 seconds? What's the big deal? Sure, he's obviously soapboxing, but I find that no more offensive than fifty jackasses in a row getting up and thanking Jesus Christ for making the Academy pick them (or for making the other team's quarterback fumble the ball, or for making the Grammy Awards people decide that their shitty rap music deserved an award, etc).
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Michael Moore wrote:Whoa. On behalf of our producers Kathleen Glynn and Michael Donovan from Canada, I'd like to thank the Academy for this. I have invited my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us, and we would like to — they're here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elects a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons. Whether it's the fictition of duct tape or fictition of orange alerts we are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, shame on you. And any time you got the Pope and the Dixie Chicks against you, your time is up. Thank you very much.
So THAT'S what all this fuss is about? How long could that have taken to say? 30 seconds? What's the big deal? Sure, he's obviously soapboxing, but I find that no more offensive than fifty jackasses in a row getting up and thanking Jesus Christ for making the Academy pick them (or for making the other team's quarterback fumble the ball, or for making the Grammy Awards people decide that their shitty rap music deserved an award, etc).
An artist thanking Jesus as part of their acceptence speech isn't as big a deal because it's on topic. So they see Jesus as a big reason for their win, that's their opinion, and it has a direct bearing on the event at hand. The producers of the Oscars had made it clear that they didn't want it to turn into an anti-war rally, which is exactly what Moore tried to make it into with his speech. His rant had nothing to do with his winning an award.
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That's the first time I've seen the speech in its entirety. Having read it, I find it an insult to documentary film-makers, everywhere, and especially those that were also nominated. I find that any comparison between "Bowling for Columbine" and fact is stretched to the point of incredibility.
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