Mass sexual assault in Cologne, including rape cases

[General Zod]

So whilst it is stupid to dismiss what Broom spoke from her experience it is equally stupid to dismiss my self or BabelHuber or anyone else when we say that from our experiences in conversations with women they genuinely do not mention this as being a problem that exists.

Since you're not the one being harassed any claim you might have to make is going to have less validity than people who actually observe or experience it.

[Simon_Jester]

Purple, Thanas explicitly told you that women get groped in Cologne, the city we're talking about. Broomstick told you that this has happened to her in a dozen or so cities scattered widely across Europe and America.

Is the problem that we're "not paying attention to the facts" or "pretending one place is just like another?" Or is the problem that you, Purple, are being arrogant and dimwitted and dismissing facts that contradict your worldview?

There is a very good logical explanation for why other people encounter groping of women in many places and times throughout the world, including Cologne, whereas you know (or claim to know) nothing about it.

Namely, that this is happening all the time and people don't tell you about it.

[Joun_Lord]

Considering I'm a dude and a not very attractive dude and I have had people grab my bodacious booty more then once while riding a packed bus, I can probably say with some certainty women are groped.

Groping seems to be a problem for women (and people in general) in crowded areas that make it hard for someone to see it happening. A club, a bus, a subway, a concert, all can be jam packed like sardines in a can. Someone getting handsy will be able to do so with little chance of being caught because the mass of bodies prevent anyone from really seeing much of the groping. Thats why these shitbags do their groping in such areas, little risk to themselves.

Women (and men) who aren't losers and forced to ride public transit are probably considerably less likely to get groped same with those who avoid bigass concerts or parties. Of course one can still be molested even without doing that shit and people can do that shit all the time without getting someone copping a feel.

More on topic, douchebags are going act like douchebags no matter where they are from. While the assault might be by "dirty darkies" this time its not like there ain't tons of cases of jock douches, businessmen, and really just anybody of any race, age, location or even gender doing the same thing. If the attacks this topic is about were committed by a immigrant it doesn't reflect on all immigrants anymore then it would reflect on all white or black or brown or yellow or green people when some perv of that race cops a feel on a metro train.

[General Zod]

Women (and men) who aren't losers and forced to ride public transit are probably considerably less likely to get groped same with those who avoid bigass concerts or parties. Of course one can still be molested even without doing that shit and people can do that shit all the time without getting someone copping a feel.

At least one woman I know complains that she has guys either harass or actively grope her on the train at least once a week if not more. Japan had such a massive problem with sexual harassment on the trains that they created a women only subway car. Frankly it happens on public transit all the time and the police usually don't even do anything about it when women complain.

[Purple]

There really isn't much to say any more. You guys are so definitive about your narrative that I won't even bother asking you to present any proof beyond anecdotes. Believe what you will. I just find it sad that this is what this forum has regressed to. I thought this place had standards.

[General Zod]

There really isn't much to say any more. You guys are so definitive about your narrative that I won't even bother asking you to present any proof beyond anecdotes. Believe what you will. I just find it sad that this is what this forum has regressed to. I thought this place had standards.

Your claim amounts to "I haven't seen anything" which is pretty much useless, and has no bearing on the actual rate of occurences.

[Purple]

Your claim amounts to "I haven't seen anything" which is pretty much useless, and has no bearing on the actual rate of occurences.

And your claims amount to "I have seen it once, so it must be happening all the time." which is equally useless. You can go your whole life without seeing a car crash or you can see 10 in a single day. Does not mean they don't happen at all or that they happen 10 a day every day in every street.

[General Zod]

Your claim amounts to "I haven't seen anything" which is pretty much useless, and has no bearing on the actual rate of occurences.

And your claims amount to "I have seen it once, so it must be happening all the time." which is equally useless. You can go your whole life without seeing a car crash or you can see 10 in a single day. Does not mean they don't happen at all or that they happen 10 a day every day in every street.

It actually happens a lot more than you seem to want to believe. Actual physical assault? No, but women are harassed and stalked daily in major cities.

[Broomstick]

Several of my female friends are from cologne. Trust me, groping happens there. Just go into any club where alcohol is involved.

That's the thing though. I do not think anyone can seriously contest the notion that it can happen in a crowded place full of drunk people. You can't after all expect drunk people to be civilized.But Broom basically said that it happens everywhere at all times even in complete public and with no alcohol involved. And that is a notion very alien to a lot of us. I my self also do not know a single female who complained of something like this happening to her outside of a drunken party context.

No, I did NOT say it happened "at all times". I did say it was a near-universal experience with women everywhere.

No, I'm not groped every time I go out in public, and there are many, many very civilized men who wouldn't do such a thing (even when drunk) and would call out any man doing such if they see it.

The problem is that there is some percentage (what? 20%? 10%? who knows for sure?) that WILL do this if they think they can possibly get away with it. That's one reason it's important to inform new immigrants about how western society views male/female interactions and that violating them is a crime and can result in prosecution and punishment - so the ones who really don't want to get caught/punished will exercise sufficient self control to not do this in most circumstances. Of course, there are some who will never "get" that women are human beings and men are not entitled to grope/pinch/molest/whatever their bodies. It has nothing to do with religion or ethnic origin because those men exist everywhere, in all societies.

Alcohol (or other drugs) make it more likely to occur, but it's not the cause or even a good excuse.

Women don't say much to men because of reactions exactly like what we see here
- I didn't see it, so it didn't/doesn't happen
- it must be rare
- I haven't heard of this before, so it didn't/doesn't happen
- it was just having a boob touched, which is OK because it's not being finger-penetrated

If you're a guy you're less likely to see it just as white people are less likely to spot bias against black people. Not impossible for men to get it/see it (typically they start after getting married or having a daughter, but that isn't required) but they have to work a bit at it.

No, it's not rare. It's so fucking common women have stopped mentioning it because it's such a goddamned given.

A woman hasn't complained to you? Why would she, if you're just going to dismiss her experience anyway?

It's a spectrum, morons - no women should EVER be touched by a stranger without giving express permission first (unless she's dying and said stranger is a paramedic, nurse, or doctor treating her). Trust me, it's fucking scary when someone a foot taller than you and 50 pounds heavier grabs one of your body parts. As bad as having fingers jammed in an orifice? No... but that doesn't make all those other less nasty touches OK or not utterly creepy or scary or violating. It's a spectrum. It's all part of the same shit even if you can say one end is better than the other.

With Thanas's update it sounds like a combined molest/pick pocket tactic - which makes me wonder if theft and profit wasn't the main motive and copping a feel was just a sick bonus.

[LaCroix]

Your claim amounts to "I haven't seen anything" which is pretty much useless, and has no bearing on the actual rate of occurences.

And your claims amount to "I have seen it once, so it must be happening all the time." which is equally useless. You can go your whole life without seeing a car crash or you can see 10 in a single day. Does not mean they don't happen at all or that they happen 10 a day every day in every street.

Out of about 20 girls I know, each and everyone has on at least one occasion told me about a creep trying to coop a feel. Even the one with 300lbs, so it's certainly not "just the pretty ones".
I had to come to the rescue of at least three of them, including my wife while I was standing next to her.

But nobody told you about their problems, thus it can't be that common. Well, you don't get it, don't you? Your attitude is exactly the reason why no woman would ever tell you about an assault. You are part of the problem. The issue isn't new or revolutionary - there are tons of studies out there, everywhere. It's not our fault that you are blind to any issue not presented to you on a silver platter, studies and all. Just use Google and type "rape statistics", "Sexual assault", or any fitting phrase, and voila! You just chose to ignore it.

And no, it is not our burden of proof to cite statistics for something that is common knowlegde and easily acessible - it's your intellectual duty to at least cursory educate yourself on a topic you want to participate and state an opinion.

[Purple]

I see that you all are simply entrenched in your own little narrative to the point that the only argument that resembles intelligence is a demand that I do your work for you. And the rest is basically a set of ad nausea repetition of anecdotes and attempts to shame me into submitting. Well frankly I have every right to spit on that. So I am done with you lot.

The only thing I bring out of this is the realization that I have been gravely mistaken when I thought this place to have higher standards than the youtube comment section.

[Jub]

And your claims amount to "I have seen it once, so it must be happening all the time." which is equally useless. You can go your whole life without seeing a car crash or you can see 10 in a single day. Does not mean they don't happen at all or that they happen 10 a day every day in every street.

Here's your proof that it happens so much in some places that they've created special trains to reduce instances of abuse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car

Now kindly go fuck yourself.

[Simon_Jester]

Your claim amounts to "I haven't seen anything" which is pretty much useless, and has no bearing on the actual rate of occurences.

And your claims amount to "I have seen it once, so it must be happening all the time." which is equally useless. You can go your whole life without seeing a car crash or you can see 10 in a single day. Does not mean they don't happen at all or that they happen 10 a day every day in every street.

Except that you have multiple people who live in different parts of the world providing examples of both their own experiences and those of others and trying to explain to you that they have literally more evidence than they can count on this issue.

YOU are the one trying to present an isolated anecdote ("women don't complain about being groped or catcalled to me").

THEY are the ones trying to show you that there are immense amounts of evidence for this thing that you stubbornly refuse to admit even exists.

Your claim amounts to "I haven't seen anything" which is pretty much useless, and has no bearing on the actual rate of occurences.

And your claims amount to "I have seen it once, so it must be happening all the time." which is equally useless. You can go your whole life without seeing a car crash or you can see 10 in a single day. Does not mean they don't happen at all or that they happen 10 a day every day in every street.

It actually happens a lot more than you seem to want to believe. Actual physical assault? No, but women are harassed and stalked daily in major cities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

Yeah, and it's noteworthy how rotten the comments on that video are, with all the guys trying to say "women don't get sexually harassed. When they have just viewed a two minute montage containing several cases of this woman (who is neutrally dressed and doing nothing to solicit sexual advances) being harassed. They've seen her being stalked by a guy quietly following her and staring at her for five-plus minutes, they've seen guys berating her for not choosing to talk to them when they started speaking to her, and so on. And yet they still call this "not harassment."

Or, even more pathetically and horribly, the guys going "you should be grateful we're not just treating women as spoils of war." BULLSHIT.

Anyone who actually watches this should be prepared to at least admit that if this is what you can get walking around at street level for ten hours in a city in the developed world, then a certain amount of random groping is very much a likely reality for women who are part of a large densely packed crowd.

[madd0ct0r]

You know, I don't actually want to see Comical Storm banned. Mocked and held to stadards, yes. If I had more time (and a stronger stomach, since there's a lot of stormfront affliates out there) I'd dig out all the various newspaper stories over the years blaming the most recent immigrant group for a spate of sexual attacks on women. Intstead, have a memetically related one: the persistant belief in the UK that dirty immigrants are eating (violating) the Swans (our virginal white property)

http://www.weirdisland.co.uk/behaviour/ ... wans-.html

[ArmorPierce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A

Yeah, and it's noteworthy how rotten the comments on that video are, with all the guys trying to say "women don't get sexually harassed. When they have just viewed a two minute montage containing several cases of this woman (who is neutrally dressed and doing nothing to solicit sexual advances) being harassed. They've seen her being stalked by a guy quietly following her and staring at her for five-plus minutes, they've seen guys berating her for not choosing to talk to them when they started speaking to her, and so on. And yet they still call this "not harassment."

Or, even more pathetically and horribly, the guys going "you should be grateful we're not just treating women as spoils of war." BULLSHIT.

Anyone who actually watches this should be prepared to at least admit that if this is what you can get walking around at street level for ten hours in a city in the developed world, then a certain amount of random groping is very much a likely reality for women who are part of a large densely packed crowd.

Okay not to derail the topic but I don't like that video neither and do find it racial baiting in of itself.

You can make a case of some of it being some level of harassment (good morning and hello is not harassment btw), but what I see is a video of a white woman walking around poorer neighborhoods and showing disadvantaged Hispanic and blacks attempting to talk to a white woman and random comments of male privilege and patriarchy being implied. Make no mistake the privileged one in this video is the white woman. The video actually reminds me exactly of comical storm's comment, where he is flipping out over the 'other's' attempting to talk to his women and how his women must be protected, just like how the KKK said that their white women must be protected from black men.

[Simon_Jester]

One, do you really think that a Hispanic or black woman walking through the same neighborhoods wouldn't be dealing with Creepo Who Follows You for Five Minutes, or the Asshole Who Berates You, or Guy Who Thinks He Has A Right To Your Time?

The fact that this particular woman is white doesn't somehow mean that the video is 'about' pale women being sullied by dark men. This is an issue that affects all women, regardless of skin tone.

Two, even if we drop all the people who were 'just' saying "Hi there!" in tones that made it fairly obvious they only ever notice when a pair of large breasts walks by... the woman doing the walking still encountered Creepo Who Follows, Asshole Who Berates, and Other Creepo Who Follows, plus a couple of overtly sexualized comments ("I just saw a thousand dollars!" and the "American Eagle" remark)...

That's averaging one incident of pretty blatant sexual harassment every two hours on the streets. So if you're a woman in New York... walk ten minutes each way in New York each and you've racked up ten hours in a month. So you can expect to get sexually harassed like that five times a month.

If her experience is typical (and we have no reason to assume it wasn't) then you can look forward to two creeps who for all you know might be rapists following you, and at least three guys making very blatant "I'm staring at your butt" comments or yelling at you for not deigning to respond to them when they come on to you.

Five times a month. Two of whom are people who follow you for extended distances, won't take silence as an answer, and who become agitated when you try to turn them down.

How is this not excessive?

[ArmorPierce]

One, do you really think that a Hispanic or black woman walking through the same neighborhoods wouldn't be dealing with Creepo Who Follows You for Five Minutes, or the Asshole Who Berates You, or Guy Who Thinks He Has A Right To Your Time?

Then why don't they show a video of a Hispanic woman or a black woman instead? Why I see is a privileged white woman angry that the lesser are approaching her. People from different cultures have different standards and customs. Did you know that Dominican women actually rate that they are far more satisfied with their men than American women are? Did you know that the Dominican Republic has a very machisto culture?

The fact that this particular woman is white doesn't somehow mean that the video is 'about' pale women being sullied by dark men. This is an issue that affects all women, regardless of skin tone.

Why is every man in this video a minority? When we discuss power structures, color of skin tone in America does matter. Harassment is one thing, power structure is another.

Poor black men and Hispanic men can harass a white man walking down the street, does that mean that they are oppressing the white men? Does it mean that the black and Hispanic men have privilege over the white men?

Two, even if we drop all the people who were 'just' saying "Hi there!" in tones that made it fairly obvious they only ever notice when a pair of large breasts walks by... the woman doing the walking still encountered Creepo Who Follows, Asshole Who Berates, and Other Creepo Who Follows, plus a couple of overtly sexualized comments ("I just saw a thousand dollars!" and the "American Eagle" remark)...

There is nothing wrong with a man being interested in a woman and saying hi and approaching her. Following is another issue completely, I honestly don't see why anyone would have a problem saying they just saw a thousand dollars.

That's averaging one incident of pretty blatant sexual harassment every two hours on the streets. So if you're a woman in New York... walk ten minutes each way in New York each and you've racked up ten hours in a month. So you can expect to get sexually harassed like that five times a month.

Lets be honest, she walked through poorer neighborhoods for a reason here.

Hey when I was in hs and walked around a poor neighborhood I had guys approaching me nearly on a daily basis at times to try to mug me. Oh no! I'm oppressed by blacks!

If her experience is typical (and we have no reason to assume it wasn't) then you can look forward to two creeps who for all you know might be rapists following you, and at least three guys making very blatant "I'm staring at your butt" comments or yelling at you for not deigning to respond to them when they come on to you.

Five times a month. Two of whom are people who follow you for extended distances, won't take silence as an answer, and who become agitated when you try to turn them down.

How is this not excessive?

This is outside of the scope of my comments that I made. I am speaking specifically of this video of video taping a privileged white woman prancing around poorer disadvantaged community with the implication that she is the oppressed one.

[Broomstick]

I am a white woman who lives in a city that's 85% black - are you saying it's OK for me to be harassed walking down the street I actually live on? In the parking lot of the local DIY store? When buying groceries?

Race doesn't matter in this issue - it is wrong to harass any woman. I'm not talking about a friendly "hi", I'm talking about being followed, questions about if I'm married or available or how married am I, comments about my tits, ass, and weight, and sometimes things far more explicit than that.

How dare I, a white woman, walk down the street where I live, is that what you're saying?

Yes, it's a poorer neighborhood. Guess what, "white privilege" doesn't pay my rent, I'm poor, too. How does that make it OK?

And by the way - there might be cultural differences, but what makes you think black/hispanic/minority women are OK with the behavior? Because that's not what I've heard from them. If anything, it's worse for them - due to historical and cultural factors in Northwest Indiana there are still quite a few black men afraid to approach white women for fear of what white men will do. Minority women who are victims of sex-based harassment and crime still have a harder time getting anyone to take their plight seriously. At least in my neck of the woods.

I think sometimes all this denial comes from men who don't want to believe this happens, they want to believe life for women is as good as life for men. It's not. Women are at a disadvantage still, even if it's not as great as in the past.

[Thanas]

This thread is quickly approaching HoS level of idiocy. Yeah, how dare a white woman be outraged minorities are harassing her.

[Vendetta]

This thread is quickly approaching HoS level of idiocy. Yeah, how dare a white woman be outraged minorities are harassing her.

It's not even that though.

The "white woman harrassed by minorities" thing is something that (racist but won't admit it) people are bringing up as a smokescreen to say that only other guys would do this, nice (white) guys like them would never even think of it.

[cosmicalstorm]

I have no problem labeling christianity as a despicable fuck-cult either. I'm not that black and white.

Women get raped everywhere all of the time, but they get raped and abused even more in the middle east than in Europe. I'd say Euro is about 100-200 years ahead in terms of womens rights.

Now that hundreds of thousands of middle eastern men have moved to Europe I expect them to bring their "chattel womb" attitude with them. Not all of them of course, but enough to cause serious social disturbances.

Germany has been a peaceful and humanitarian place for a long time, what happens if this immigration thing causes ze Germans to go back to far right parties and opinions? What's going to happen come next set of elections? People are not very logical about the whole "strangers raping our women" issue, I think it triggers some ancient instincts.

[Metahive]

Women get raped everywhere all of the time, but they get raped and abused even more in the middle east than in Europe. I'd say Euro is about 100-200 years ahead in terms of womens rights.

Everyone listen to the magnificent expert on women's rights and his accurate appraisal of exactly how much Westerners are bettererer than them brown-skinned rabble. Sociologists, listen up! Cosmical Ali, future-noble price winner is in town.

Now that hundreds of thousands of middle eastern men have moved to Europe I expect them to bring their "chattel womb" attitude with them. Not all of them of course, but enough to cause serious social disturbances.

One, not one single incident in Cologne so far could be linked back to refugees, so you're making unfounded accusations. Two, "chattel womb attitude"? That's just as much a thing in the West. Just look at the "soft" erosion of abortion rights in the US, where states close down one abortion clinic after another and propose pro-life legislature on a monthly basis. Your fucking racism-fueled ignorance is grating as fuck.

Germany has been a peaceful and humanitarian place for a long time, what happens if this immigration thing causes ze Germans to go back to far right parties and opinions? What's going to happen come next set of elections? People are not very logical about the whole "strangers raping our women" issue, I think it triggers some ancient instincts.

You dishonest pile of humanoid manure. You're the one who's trying to make it so, by spreading unfounded xenophobic propaganda like this. I'm convinced you're doing this on purpose, you pus-spewing ulcer. Fuck you with a thousand red-hot pokers.

[Thanas]

To be fair the attack in Cologne seems almost certainly to have been carried out by migrants, everybody is consistent in telling that.

[Metahive]

Migrants isn't the same as refugees. Cosmical Ali is directly linking it to them when what I've read said that the perpetrators looked like people with migratory background which is helluva difference and according to the Spiegel not even one case could be followed back to a refugee. In fact, the police says it will be very hard to identify any of the culprits which to me seems to exclude refugees altogether as they're under increased scrutiny compared to the rest of the population and so should be, if all, easier to identify than anyone else.

[Thanas]

Migrants isn't the same as refugees. Cosmical Ali is directly linking it to them when what I've read said that the perpetrators looked like people with migratory background which is helluva difference and according to the Spiegel not even one case could be followed back to a refugee. In fact, the police says it will be very hard to identify any of the culprits which to me seems to exclude refugees altogether as they're under increased scrutiny compared to the rest of the population and so should be, if all, easier to identify than anyone else.

That does not follow. We have not managed to identify or even track the majority of the refugees in our country. The increased scrutiny is a joke. I personally believe that they were indeed refugees.