Pre-industrial Fantasy STGOD OOC/Rules Thread:

[The Romulan Republic]

Since its been a while since the map was updated, I'm just double checking that the territory north of Esquire's Ottomans, where Illinois is today, is still unclaimed. I was thinking of putting some of my NPC elvish dark wizards I previously discussed their, and wanted to make sure it wouldn't interfere with anyone (its a fairly small group though).

[The Romulan Republic]

Just a reminder: I had put a month as a tentative amount of time for each "season" of game time in the rules. However, as we've been a bit slow to get started (pretty sure some of us still haven't posted at all in the story thread), likely due at least partly to people being busy with the Christmas season, how would you all feel about pushing that to two months this time around? Or at least a month and a half?

[Simon_Jester]

Yes, I would prefer to have at least a few more weeks of 'winter.'

And yes, OTL northern and central Illinois is unclaimed by any major power. Southern Illinois and a narrow strip along the east side of the state, basically everything east of the Kaskaskia River, is neutral; the Kaskaskia is Ohio's western border.

However, this region is not unpopulated- it is full of cossacks. The cossacks are partially nomadic, organized into tribal bands that are in turn loosely organized into larger "hosts." Most of these bands live west of the Kaskaskia River and are fiercely independent of Ohio, to the extent that they would refuse Ohioan assistance if it were offered, and fight an Ohioan army that entered their territory on the slightest pretext. I suspect they feel the same way about the Ottomans, but would want to talk to Esquire about that.

One particular host, the Kaskaskian Host, has accepted Imperial rule in exchange for a comparatively privileged semi-autonomous legal status, for protection and secure grazing lands, and for being heavily relied upon as the Empire's main source of light cavalry. The Kaskaskian Host lives on the prairie east of the Kaskaskia river.
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The plainsmen have a generally Iron Age level of technology (which means they can repair guns but aren't very good at making them). They mostly live nomadically or in small villages in the areas that provide the best opportunities for farming. There are a couple of larger, semi-permanent settlements around sites of ritual importance to their shamanistic religion, which also serve as trading emporiums and neutral ground for negotiation and meeting between the hosts.

It is somewhat risky to cross the prairie because there are frequent range wars fought both between the various hosts, and within the hosts.

The plainsmen dress and wear their hair in what appear motley, roguish, and brightly colored to outsiders. They tend to be passionate, quick to anger, and quick to defend what they perceive as slights to their honor. Virtually all free adult males, and many women, in their society go armed, at least with a dagger. They are quite prickly about being "free" as they conceive the term. Quite a few plainsmen are, or are descended from, Ohioans who actually left imperial territory to live a freer life in the West.

There is a small minority who practice the Living-Star religion on the prairie, and probably another minority worshipping river-Islam, but the overwhelming majority faith of the plainsmen is shamanism focused on wind-spirits.

Shoots-Across-Canyon from my recent Pike and Shot posts is a fairly typical Kaskaskian chieftain- a warlike and ferocious man, skilled with sword, rifle, and above all horseback. He may be a better than average example of the breed, but that post really should be taken as a good idea of what Kaskaskians are like. They're certainly not going to run scared from a threat, and they're pretty good at fighting.

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Further north, in OTL Wisconsin, you get a series of city-states and disorganized, fractured polities that still mostly adhere to something recognizably similar to Ohioan culture and religion, but not identical- about as similar as, oh, Poland and France. Keep going north from there, and, well. Ask Coop, because you're getting up into the Assiniboines' territory, up around Lake Superior.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hmm.

How credible would it be for a moderately large (i.e. a few hundred) force with access to at least basic illusion magic to move through the Cossacks territory without getting its metaphorical teeth kicked in? Would any of the Cossacks willingly let such a group through in exchange for some concessions?

[Simon_Jester]

Caravans crisscross the prairie fairly often.

The plainsmen are alert to anything that smells like Ohioans (or, presumably, Ottomans) trying to extend penetration and control into their territory, but more exotic threats, aside from obvious monsters or demons or whatever, aren't really on their radar.

Passing through would not be particularly hard and not particularly dangerous, if one is capable of organizing a masquerade (i.e. hiding a company of soldiers as the guards of a large caravan with pack mules). And if one has a few people who know the region and culture to act as guides and negotiators. And, of course, if one doesn't do anything willfully foolish.

The more ignorant of local politics and terrain one is, the more hazardous such an expedition would become. If your guys are evil wizards from far away, they probably want to hypnotize and abduct a few locals who can tell them what they need to know- if nothing else, so that they can hire someone else willing and competent to guide them.

The hazards involved here go down drastically if your illusionists are skilled enough to create the illusion of "there isn't anyone here" and hide your group's movement entirely, because the plainsmen aren't good enough at magic to notice someone doing that reliably.

[Simon_Jester]

By the way, is there anyone in the eastern half of North America who runs a substantial banking establishment? Ohio's going to be selling war bonds this year at, by historical 17th and 18th century standards, very promising interest rates if you're a long-term thinker.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Given how "modern" I've tried to make Orion I suspect we'd have such things. I'm sure we could afford to invest in some war bonds in our pseudo-neighbours.

[Simon_Jester]

Thank you, although you'd be my banker of last resort for reasons of plot. Not because I actually have a problem with selling you annuities. But rather because by the standards of the 17th century this is a sophisticated financial instrument. Therefore, your guys probably invented it.

If it's being sold to you it's hard to resist the impulse to say it was your banks' idea. And I want Cardinal Mazzarini to be able to take some of the credit for orchestrating the scheme.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Thank you, although you'd be my banker of last resort for reasons of plot. Not because I actually have a problem with selling you annuities. But rather because by the standards of the 17th century this is a sophisticated financial instrument. Therefore, your guys probably invented it.

If it's being sold to you it's hard to resist the impulse to say it was your banks' idea. And I want Cardinal Mazzarini to be able to take some of the credit for orchestrating the scheme.

Mwahahaha....now that's a reason I can live with

Though if the interest rate is favourable enough, I'm sure the negotiators could be persuaded to be magnanimous and not mention things.

That does bring up an idea that has been rattling aroudn my head for a while. Is there some sort of convention that doesn't allow using Telepaths/Interromancers as diplomats? Because if there is no such convention, I am totally using Interromancers as negotiators...you can't lie to them and thy can pull secrets from your mind if forced.

[Simon_Jester]

You may use psychics and mind-wizards to negotiate... if I may use priestesses whose necks positively rattle with warding amulets.

Offense, defense.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Sounds good to me

[Coop D'etat]

On my end, I see the bulk of Minnesota and Wisconsin populated by various Great Plains tribes of greater or lesser size, which Assiniboia considers their "near abroad." Not close enough to have conquered, but close enough that they routinely intervene to prevent any single power from arising to dominate the area. More towards the Great Lakes and in the southern reaches of the Canadian Shield (like Upper Michegan) and off the plains are various minor city states who use standard pike and shot armies, in the same broad cultural sphere as Detriot etc. Their use of infantry blocks being the inspiration for Commonwealth heavy cavalry to adopt the use of extremely long lances and co-ordinated charge tactics necessary for modern heavy cavalry to break pike defended infantry by direct frontal charge.

Its a power vacuum, so its quite conceivable that a small elite force could opperate relatively unmolested so long as they aren't making too much trouble as their isn't any local power great enough to co-ordinate a strong enough response to force the issue.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah, the city-states would probably be closer to the lakes, in the more heavily forested parts of Wisconsin, while going inland you'd see terrain that lends itself more to tribal society anyway.

And, hm. Your courier will probably be arriving a month or more after what I assume is meant to be January 10; he'll probably "cross telegrams" with... do you know, this is exactly the sort of thing that inspired real countries of this era to send plenipotentiaries.

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah, I'm still one of the sinners without much on a OoB or story posts. Nothing much is coming to mind that's not both a)boring and b) hopelessly derivative of Robin Hobb.

[Coop D'etat]

I believe that the resident ambassdor to the Court of Kingsport would have plenipotentiary power. Its more a matter of instructions to negotiate that are about to be triggered. Otherwise this would take years in game time to complete.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well that kicks off my "Succession Crisis" storyline. And introduces us to the Imperial Archives. No, Orio doesn't do anything small

[Simon_Jester]

Coop, I just imagined some amusement regarding the courier, will do a post on that in a week or so I think.

Well that kicks off my "Succession Crisis" storyline. And introduces us to the Imperial Archives. No, Orio doesn't do anything small

Given the way noble marriages work in a society like Ohio (or gunpowder-age Europe), and that David is of royal blood, there's a fairly good chance that David's heirs probably married into the Ohioan nobility at a high level.

Also, you may have not thought their claims had any legal substance in Orion, but if history is a guide, David's heirs didn't. And the main thing that stopped them from trying to reclaim the throne would probably be the refusal of Cardinal Mazzarini (and her immediate predecessor, who have been the de facto power behind the throne for most of the past half century between them) to provide them with the funds and troops needed for a successful usurpation.

Look at how buddy-buddy Charles II became with the French prior to the Restoration, as an example.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ah, I did expect them to have a legal claim, that's what the part about not finding a Notice of Disinheritance was about. The question comes when people who support the legal order and people who support the current Emperor have to pick sides, hence, a very real chance of a civil war.

My thinking is that Prince David didn't realise he hadn't officially been barred from succeeding the throne, and his son and grandson don't know this either. Thsi will lead to a high-level "now wht the fuck do we do" meeting, with the options that I raised in that last PM being discussed.

Of course, there is nothing to stop a certain Mnemomancer from journeying to Ohio to inform David's son/grandson of this dicovery.

[Simon_Jester]

Given the historical track record of royal pretenders and their deepseated OCD tendency to fission and research trivia, I would actually not be surprised if this was already a little-known notion advocated among a relative handful of supporters of David... it's just that it is only now that it is revealed that this is true.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Given the historical track record of royal pretenders and their deepseated OCD tendency to fission and research trivia, I would actually not be surprised if this was already a little-known notion advocated among a relative handful of supporters of David... it's just that it is only now that it is revealed that this is true.

Ooo I like that, I'll work that in further down the line. Given that Aberforth has only just found this, and he needs to present it to the Emperor and the Imperial Council, it'll be a while yet before David's offspring appear. After all, it's the somewhat...drastic solution the Council proposes that will motivate him to journey to Ohio and seek out the "True Emperor."

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah.

You're a Brit, as I recall, so dredge back through your history lessons and look up how Charles II behaved during his decade or so in exile after the English Civil War. Or, better yet, at how the Jacobites conducted themselves after James II was deposed in the Glorious Revolution: repeated rebellions with foreign backing over a period of half a century, and were still bitter about it for considerable time after that although they knew that realistically there was nothing they could do.

Of course it helped, in both cases, that these claimants to the English crown had France to fall back on. Every pretender would love to have a large nation right next door that is only too happy to shelter and occasionally support them, so long as it caused trouble for their hereditary rival.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Indeed, the Jacobite cause and "Bonnie Prince Charlie" are part of what kicked this off for me; he rest being I needed an idea that would cause some high-level interaction with Ohio and would by necessity run for a while.

I have no doubt that David's son and grandson did indeed marry into the Ohio nobility at a senior-ish level, and no doubt at least some of them will subscribe to the "he is the True Emperor" idea. The question really becomes, once the Prince's family find out from Aberforth and tell your Emperor, what will you do about it?

[Simon_Jester]

I read that as "what will he do," as in "what will Emperor Louis X do." If it happens this year, probably "talk to his mother about it." He's a precocious seventeen-year-old, but on some level he is still seventeen.

But yeah, I'll give that one some thought.

And Esquire, my PM space left is limited so I'm just going to say it out here: as I've been alluding to in comments and story posts, I'm planning to take Detroit this year.

[Raw Shark]

I'll second or third dragging the first quarter out a bit. Sorry for being slow; this time of year is not great for me.

[madd0ct0r]

me too - would like to at least finish the battle off!