Mass sexual assault in Cologne, including rape cases

[cmdrjones]

I should post this because it seems that some people, just, don't, get it;



The open door policy of Merkel has allowed a massive number of (and I'm being extremely generous with the following colloquialism) "ultra-conservative" view points into a very liberal country. The 'sweep it under the rug' tactic of not being able to discuss these concerns prior to these people entering the country for fear of being labeled a 'Nazi' has simply not worked. Blow back is happening, and the right-wing across Europe are polling better.

Well done.

So the only road forward is a massive indoctrination and assimilation program (and good luck with that given the "stellar" success that France, the UK, Belgium, Sweden and Germany have done so far on this regard with earlier muslim immigrants) and some really hard work.

And just to be clear; no, not all asylum seekers share this view, in fact given the numbers above we can safely say in most cases the majority don't, however, the minority isn't 5% to 7% or something 'trivial', it can range from 20% to 40% (depending on which issue we're polling). I can't believe people are shocked.

And one last thing; these numbers were the same that Sam Harris and Bill Maher have been talking about for a year now, but given some fucking people can't accept objective fact, I've had to find a brown muslim woman to tell you these numbers so I can avoid the casual xenophobic slur as well.

So that whole: "You are handing Europe to the Nazis" thing that I brought up months ago was justified? Even though I was roundly castigated and called an asshole? Weird... I will await the inevitable avalanche of wery wery many Ah-poe-low-gees for the inconweeenience... oh wait...

[Zaune]

Look... What exactly do you want Europe to do with these refugees? Because we don't have many choices and they're all bad ones. Refusing to accept these people as refugees means very likely condemning them to death; even if ISIS don't hunt them down on general principles, sooner or later one of the refugee camps in Turkey or the other border states is going to get hit with a cholera outbreak or just end up with more people than they can feed.

[Thanas]

The open door policy of Merkel has allowed a massive number of (and I'm being extremely generous with the following colloquialism) "ultra-conservative" view points into a very liberal country. The 'sweep it under the rug' tactic of not being able to discuss these concerns prior to these people entering the country for fear of being labeled a 'Nazi' has simply not worked. Blow back is happening, and the right-wing across Europe are polling better.

So I assume you were in favor of keeping them all in Greece, by force if necessary? Because it is very hard to blame Merkel for this considering she only acted when the hundreds of thousands were already inside Europe.

[Crown]

The open door policy of Merkel has allowed a massive number of (and I'm being extremely generous with the following colloquialism) "ultra-conservative" view points into a very liberal country. The 'sweep it under the rug' tactic of not being able to discuss these concerns prior to these people entering the country for fear of being labeled a 'Nazi' has simply not worked. Blow back is happening, and the right-wing across Europe are polling better.

So I assume you were in favor of keeping them all in Greece, by force if necessary? Because it is very hard to blame Merkel for this considering she only acted when the hundreds of thousands were already inside Europe.

No, I would be in favour of keeping them in Turkey/Jordan/Lebanon and sending massive amounts of foreign aid and a controlled process of selection into Europe (like Canada does when it screens for which asylum seekers it takes), but that evaporated into thin air as soon as the 'everybody is welcome in Europe' meme went viral.

The next best thing after that would be to quarantine them on a Greek island, and repeat scenario above (but you know, someone will have to pay for it), and then of course the migration route will just change to the Turkish/Bulgarian border so again same problem.

But the truly frightening thing about this fuckup is how compliant the media have been in not reporting on this issue (accusation that it was also the Swedish press who didn't report on the attacks not just the Police are circulating) and that raises a whole lot of other issues on how truly corrupt the world is becoming; mass of young immigrant men sexually assault hundreds of victims? Silence. Left wing whistle blower has sex without condom? He must be deported and stand trial for rape.

[Thanas]

No, I would be in favour of keeping them in Turkey/Jordan/Lebanon and sending massive amounts of foreign aid and a controlled process of selection into Europe (like Canada does when it screens for which asylum seekers it takes), but that evaporated into thin air as soon as the 'everybody is welcome in Europe' meme went viral.

.....

You seem to be of the impression that the increase in refugees was caused by Merkel. It was not. I distinctly remember her acting only after the avalanche had already happened and it became clear that Turkey and Greece could not stop it, with hundreds of thousands already being on the trek.

[Crown]

No, I would be in favour of keeping them in Turkey/Jordan/Lebanon and sending massive amounts of foreign aid and a controlled process of selection into Europe (like Canada does when it screens for which asylum seekers it takes), but that evaporated into thin air as soon as the 'everybody is welcome in Europe' meme went viral.

.....

You seem to be of the impression that the increase in refugees was caused by Merkel. It was not. I distinctly remember her acting only after the avalanche had already happened and it became clear that Turkey and Greece could not stop it, with hundreds of thousands already being on the trek.

Greece was already on track to break the 2014 influx by I think May of 2015 true, but the numbers SPIKED post Merkel 'please come here'. It spread an already preposterous view of life in Europe (read Sweden and Germany) into an upside down fantasy land of unrealistic expectations.

Here's the Wiki; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_ ... Statistics

Greece had broken 2014 numbers by the first six months, but the spike was around September. For comparison; July had set a new 'record' for Greece of around 100,000 refugees. Post Merkel, that number had risen to 250,000 per month (September and November).

[Crown]

The open door policy of Merkel has allowed a massive number of (and I'm being extremely generous with the following colloquialism) "ultra-conservative" view points into a very liberal country. The 'sweep it under the rug' tactic of not being able to discuss these concerns prior to these people entering the country for fear of being labeled a 'Nazi' has simply not worked. Blow back is happening, and the right-wing across Europe are polling better.

Well done.

So that whole: "You are handing Europe to the Nazis" thing that I brought up months ago was justified? Even though I was roundly castigated and called an asshole? Weird... I will await the inevitable avalanche of wery wery many Ah-poe-low-gees for the inconweeenience... oh wait...

Well, my argument is a bit more nuanced than that, Maajid Nawaz says it best here;

Yes, it is racist to suspect that all brown men who look like me are rapists. It is bigoted to presume that all Muslim men who share my faith advocate religiously justified rape. It is xenophobic to assume that all male refugees are sexual predators awaiting their chance to rape. But let me be absolutely clear: What will feed this racism, bigotry, and xenophobia even more is deliberately failing to report the facts as they stand. Doing so only encourages the populist right’s rallying cry against “the establishment.”

If liberals do not address such issues swiftly, with complete candor and courage, the far-right and anti-Muslim populist groups will get there first. They have been doing so for a while now.

So you have the idiots in charge who didn't want to talk about it before hand, wouldn't acknowledge it when it happened and then victim blamed immediately after, and then you have the regressive left who are ever vigilant to label reasonable people as racist xenophobes if you even bring up the point; hey this maybe a lot harder than we're being led to believe.

[Zaune]

Which leads me to wonder if the media weren't absolutely right to try and bury this. What the hell is the point in reporting the facts as they stand when both sides are just going to cherry-pick, distort and misquote the bits that suit their agenda, quietly bury anything that doesn't and then just flat-out make shit up to fill the gaps?

[Elheru Aran]

Which leads me to wonder if the media weren't absolutely right to try and bury this. What the hell is the point in reporting the facts as they stand when both sides are just going to cherry-pick, distort and misquote the bits that suit their agenda, quietly bury anything that doesn't and then just flat-out make shit up to fill the gaps?

It's better to report it and have some bullshit to deal with than not and let it go unobserved except as the subject of rumour. That said, it's hard to couch this particular bit of news in neutral terms...

[Edi]

Which leads me to wonder if the media weren't absolutely right to try and bury this. What the hell is the point in reporting the facts as they stand when both sides are just going to cherry-pick, distort and misquote the bits that suit their agenda, quietly bury anything that doesn't and then just flat-out make shit up to fill the gaps?

Because then it's going to look like a goddamn cover-up, which is the one thing that is guaranteed to drive up vigilantism like nobody's business, and when that happens, sooner rather than later there will be dead bodies to show for it. Another thing that will also happen is that more than likely some of those dead bodies will be of innocents instead of the ones committing the crimes.

Riddle me this: Rather have the state use whatever force is necessary and act (at least mostly) within the bounds of the law, or hand it over to mob justice? Which one do you prefer?

[Grumman]

Which leads me to wonder if the media weren't absolutely right to try and bury this. What the hell is the point in reporting the facts as they stand when both sides are just going to cherry-pick, distort and misquote the bits that suit their agenda, quietly bury anything that doesn't and then just flat-out make shit up to fill the gaps?

The government failed in its duty to control its borders on a massive scale, and innocent people paid the price. Reporting when the government isn't doing its job is what the media is for.

[amigocabal]

As this story caught on news was released in Sweden that a similar attack back in August occurred at a music festival. Girls as young as 12 were molested and beaten en masse.
However the incident was censored both by media outlets and police. The police spokesperson specifically stated that they avoided reporting on the details because it might be good for the Sweden Democrat party.

I am honestly surprised a police spokesman would actually admit that.

I mean, they could have simply claimed that the matter was under investigation and as such did not want to release details.

Was the spokesman a whistleblower trying to notify the public of a cover-up by police?

Or did the spokesman really believe that no one would have a problem with justifying a cover up for the purpose of keeping the Democrat Party from benefiting?

[Sir Sirius]

https://www.rt.com/news/328561-taharrus ... ollective/

‘Taharrush gamea’ comes to Germany? Police fear Cologne sex abuse may be imported practice
Published time: 11 Jan, 2016 17:55

German police fear repeats of the Cologne New Year’s Eve sexual assaults, saying extra attention will now be paid to fighting similar attacks. Police used the Arab term ‘taharrush gamea’ (collective harassment) to categorize the assaults – causing an angry reaction on Twitter.
The Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA), the main investigative authority in Germany, said in a response to Welt newspaper it knows sexual harassment of women in public is widespread in Arab countries, and that this is exactly what happened on New Year’s Eve in Cologne. Collective harassment is translated as “taharrush gamea” (حرش جماعي).

"Such crimes are committed by groups of young men… mostly when there are large gatherings of people, such as demonstrations. They range from sexual harassment to rape," the BKA told Welt.

Earlier, German Justice Minister Heiko Maas urged authorities to investigate if the Cologne assaults were directly related to those in the other German cities of Berlin, Frankfurt, Stuttgart and Bielefeld during New Year’s celebrations.

“If such a horde gathers in order to commit crimes, it appears in some form to be planned," the minister told Bild on Sunday. "Nobody can tell me that this was not coordinated or prepared."

The BKA said the assaults “ranging from sexual harassment to physical abuse” were unknown in Germany until recently.

A hashtag similar to “taharrush gamea” has already begun popping up in social media – being used for angry posts decrying either the massive influx of refugees or profane attitudes towards women, with some saying the Cologne assaults “weren’t done by frustrated or drunken people, but by those who planned and elaborated it.”

“Taharrush gamea” is recognized in Egypt, where it stands for “lighter” sexual abuse or gang rape. A recent study suggests Egyptian crowds practiced “taharrush” during the 2011 revolution that toppled then-President Hosni Mubarak, and it took more violent forms like rape during mass unrest in Tahrir Square.

So far, the number of criminal cases filed with the Cologne police has grown to 516 - 40 percent of which relate to sexual assaults. Local police said that 19 suspects are under investigation, while in Hamburg police are investigating 133 cases relating to assaults during New Year’s celebrations in the St. Pauli district

Also http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/ ... ommen.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... alone.html

So yeah, evidently mass sexual haresment has been an ongoing phenomena in the middle-east and north-africa for a while now.

[cosmicalstorm]

The Taharrush videos on youtube are frigthening. Those guys are having the time of their lives.

[Cykeisme]

Random question.. are other middle eastern countries which are unaffected by ISIS (such as Saudi Arabia, etc) already flooded with more refugees than they can handle?

Is that why European Union nations are ethically left with absolutely no ethical choice but to accept the massive influx of refugees, despite the horrific detrimental effects on their existing populations?

[Ralin]

Random question.. are other middle eastern countries which are unaffected by ISIS (such as Saudi Arabia, etc) already flooded with more refugees than they can handle?

Is that why European Union nations are ethically left with absolutely no ethical choice but to accept the massive influx of refugees, despite the horrific detrimental effects on their existing populations?

Near as I can tell it largely boils down to sending them to a country like Saudi Arabia not being ethically acceptable either, plus the Saudis don't want them, plus a lot of the refugees are already in or heading to Europe anyway.

[salm]

To be quite frank, I do believe that there is nothing morally wrong with deporting refugees who commit serious crimes. If the refugee themself does not honor the obligations of a guest in their home country, the obligation of the host country to ensure that refugees are safe is impossible to enforce anyway. You can't make refugees safe if the other refugees are treating their fellow refugees like targets for criminal activity, after all. And if the criminal refugees are doing this to your own citizens, it's very likely they're also doing it to refugees.

I don´t think we should throw people to the wolves. No matter what they´ve done. If a country is too unsafe for them we should not deport them. Like we dont´t deport/extratdite people to the USA if they face the death penalty there.

We can lock them up ourselves. That shouldn´t be too problematic.

The biggest problem is that this creates perverse incentives- In many ways even a prison in a civilized* First World nation is a more attractive place to live than, oh, Syria or Somalia. And if someone's serving a prison sentence, they cannot be sent home for other reasons... so you could easily create a situation where people commit crimes precisely to avoid any risk of being sent out of the country.
__________________________

*Please note that I have quite a few days when I do not consider the US to be a civilized country... [sighs]

Hm... If this is the case I´d like to see if this is happening to a significant degree. I´ve never heard of this being a relevant problem and the current system does it pretty much like mentioned bove. Sentences are handed out, people serve their time, or at least part of their time in Germany and are then deported. I´ve never heard of a case where somebody commited a crime spcifically to stay in Germany or some other western country for a few more years. Doesn´t mean that this never happens but I don´t think it does to a significant degree.

Even a country like Syria is safe compared to an actual death sentence- most Syrians are still alive, and will live through the civil war.

And yes, this is a harsh thing to say. However, there are times when the law is, and has to be, harsh- because there cannot be justice in a given environment until and unless there is order. Public order has to be maintained, people have to know that there are certain minimum standards which people aspiring to civilization must obey regardless of circumstances.

If refugees are coming to escape violence, by all means let them escape violence and evil. But they cannot then export violence into the host nations- you cannot flee violence if there is violence in your heart.

So is "safe compared to an actual death sentence" the benchmark? I don´t think so.

Also, there is no threat to public order. I am not sure what the media you read/see/hear is claiming but this country is still a lot safer than the vast majority of countries on this whole planet. If public order is threatened, fine, secure your country but this is in no way the case. In reality I can and routinely do walk around at night, as can my gf, without fear of getting attacked and I live in what comes closest to a ghetto. The hysteria regarding this is silly but will probably go away soon.

think that acts of willful, premeditated violence that cause meaningful injury against other humans should always be considered serious crimes for this purpose.

So then you´d have to define "premediated violence" and "meaningful injury". If you ask, some people will state that drunkenly grabbing someones ass fits this definition while plenty of others will state otherwise for example.

[salm]

Random question.. are other middle eastern countries which are unaffected by ISIS (such as Saudi Arabia, etc) already flooded with more refugees than they can handle?

Is that why European Union nations are ethically left with absolutely no ethical choice but to accept the massive influx of refugees, despite the horrific detrimental effects on their existing populations?

Some don´t take refugees (Saudi Arabia) and some others are indeed flooded. Jordan for example have 1 - 2 million Syrian refugees in a nation of only 6 million people. That would be like Germany taking 25 million refugees.

[Cykeisme]

Random question.. are other middle eastern countries which are unaffected by ISIS (such as Saudi Arabia, etc) already flooded with more refugees than they can handle?

Is that why European Union nations are ethically left with absolutely no ethical choice but to accept the massive influx of refugees, despite the horrific detrimental effects on their existing populations?

Near as I can tell it largely boils down to sending them to a country like Saudi Arabia not being ethically acceptable either, plus the Saudis don't want them, plus a lot of the refugees are already in or heading to Europe anyway.

That's terrible, why aren't other middle eastern countries accepting refugees?

I mean, they're geographically nearer, meaning less chances for the genuine refugees to get exploited (or worse, not surviving the trip), they'll have less trouble integrating into the culture, and equally importantly they share the same religion.


After reading the earlier pages in this thread, I can't decide which of these two viewpoints is true:
- Middle eastern cultural values have their men view women in a manner which is unacceptable, which leads them to display horrible behavior toward women when they go to a European country
- Men everywhere (including both native Europeans and middle eastern refugees) all display equally horrible horrible behavior toward women, and xenophobes are just publicizing this normal behavior as an excuse to ostracize male middle eastern refugees.

In either case, if there are quarters among the native Europeans that don't agree with accepting a large refugee population, then it's clearly better if other Muslim middle eastern countries (untouched by ISIS) accept the refugees.
So I find it puzzling that they do not..

[Simon_Jester]

[Sorry, this post got mangled and I don't have time to reconstruct it before I leave. Delete please?]

[Purple]

That's terrible, why aren't other middle eastern countries accepting refugees?

Because they see no benefit to be had from accepting them. The rest is realpolitik. A term extinct in European politics.

After reading the earlier pages in this thread, I can't decide which of these two viewpoints is true:
- Middle eastern cultural values have their men view women in a manner which is unacceptable, which leads them to display horrible behavior toward women when they go to a European country
- Men everywhere (including both native Europeans and middle eastern refugees) all display equally horrible horrible behavior toward women, and xenophobes are just publicizing this normal behavior as an excuse to ostracize male middle eastern refugees.

Well it depends on if you subscribe to the theory that all men are closet rapists and the only thing holding us back from going on a mass rape spree in the nearest school playground is fear of the law. According to those that do when any sort of thing that makes the odds of getting caught (alcohol, large groups of people, no police in sight, any excuse at all) makes us think we can get away with it we immediately turn into rape monkeys hell bent on inseminating everything with legs (but only if she refuses. Consent immediately turns us limp.). And there is an alarming number of people that do.

If you do than it is clearly #1. If not than it's #2 with a caveat. Basically there likely is a small subset of subhuman scum in every society that does that sort of thing but that this percentage is going to be much higher in people coming from #2.

But it's not mine to tell you which view to hold so I offered both options.

In either case, if there are quarters among the native Europeans that don't agree with accepting a large refugee population, then it's clearly better if other Muslim middle eastern countries (untouched by ISIS) accept the refugees.
So I find it puzzling that they do not..

Because the refugees them self don't want to go there. You only need look at where the refugee wave has passed through but refused to stay to realize it. These people don't just want to save their lives at any cost. They want to save their lives AND escape to a rich western 1st world utopia. Can we blame them for the sentiment? Not really. But we must acknowledge it exists.

[Metahive]

This is not an attempt to exonerate whoever the culprits of the Sylvester assaults were, this post serves to put it into a larger context and the refute the seeming base assumption that sexual violence is an exclusive foreign import


1.Germany has an incredibly backwards position towards rape
http://www.mintpressnews.com/regressive ... es/191118/

[i"]The ruling found that saying no, or even screaming it, wasn’t enough to merit rape charges."[/i]

"The number of German rape cases ending in convictions has plummeted from 22 percent to 8 percent over the past 20 years, according to a study released by the Hanover-based Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony.

Those figures came as a shock to most Germans, who think of their country as a leader in the struggle for women’s equality."


"Activists hope the disturbing figures will act as an embarrassing wakeup call for the political and economic leader of the European Union."


2.Until 1997 it was legal to rape one's spouse in Germany

Legal definition of rape until 1997

"Whoever compels a woman to have extramarital intercourse with him, or with a third person, by force or the threat of present danger to life or limb, shall be punished by not less than two years’ imprisonment."

Some of the people who voted against making it illegal still sit in the parliament BTW. The new definition of rape is not much better, as you can see above, not struggling sufficiently (according to crotchety old men in judge's robes) means you it's not rape.



3.Germany is in the above average ranks when it comes to violence against women in the EU

http://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/file ... t14_en.pdf

Yes, there's more violence against women in Germany than in the stereotypical macho countries Spain and Italy, figure that out. The top three are Finland, Estonia and Denmark, which I find pretty shocking actually.


4.Mass sexual harassment during public events has long been a phenomenon in Germany (link in German)
http://www.vice.com/de/read/die-rape-cu ... schrei-118

Exerpt:
Bei allen Großereignissen, wie etwa dem Oktoberfest und dem Karneval, kommt es immer wieder zu sexuellen Übergriffen und auch Vergewaltigungen: „Allein der kurze Weg zur Toilette ist der reinste Spießrutenlauf. Drei Umarmungen von wildfremden, besoffenen Männern, zwei Klapse auf den Hintern, ein hochgehobener Dirndlrock und ein absichtlich ins Dekolleté geschütteter Bierschwall sind die Bilanz von dreißig Metern", schrieben die Autorinnen Karoline Beisel und Beate Wild 2011 in der Süddeutschen Zeitung. Und weiter: „Reagiert man abweisend, wird man auch schon mal als ‚Schlampe' beschimpft – oder schlimmer." Laut einem Artikel der taz werden im Schnitt allein zehn Vergewaltigungen pro Oktoberfest gezählt, die Dunkelziffer wird auf 200 geschätzt.

[the police of Munich is disputing these numbers]

Erlebnisse wie diese, die Beschimpfung als „Schlampe", das Angrabschen in der vollen U-Bahn, die Verfolgung bis vor die Haustür, Vergewaltigung durch Freunde der Familie, oder eine Polizei, die nichts davon glauben mag: Das alles sind Erfahrungen, die unter #aufschrei geteilt wurden. Doch was gab es damals von rechtskonservativer Seite als Reaktion? Das sind halt ein paar Männer, die doch eigentlich nur missverstandene Flirtversuche aussenden, und Frauen sollten sich mal nicht so haben, sondern diese als Kompliment annehmen. Sie seien ja schließlich selbst schuld daran, wenn sie freizügig herumliefen.


Translation
At all major events, like the Oktoberfest or the Carnival there's sexual harassment and rape: "the short route to the toilet alone is like running the gauntlet. Three hugs from drunken strangers, two slaps on the butt, a lifted skirt and deliberately spilling beer on one's cleavage are the result of thirty meters", write authors Karoline Beisel and Beate Wild 2011 in the Süddeutsche Zeitung. Furthermore, "reacting negatively gets you called a 'bitch' or worse". According to an article in the TAZ there's on average ten rapes during every Oktoberfest, but the number of suspected cases is actually around 200.

[the police of Munich is disputing these numbers]

Experiences like these, getting called a "bitch", groping in crowded subway trains, stalking to one's home, rape by friends and family, a police that refuses to believe it: those are all things shared under #aufschrei, yet what was the reaction of the conservative right? "Those are only a few men whose are trying to flirt, women shouldn't be so sensible but understand it as a compliment and it's their fault anyway when they run around in skimpy clothing.


So, for all those who as of the recent events have actually become more sensible towards the concerns of women, I hope this has helped you to understand that the fight for gender equality is an ongoing one and that as bad as the events of Sylvester were, it's not something that will simply disappear if we only throw out all Middle Easterners and North African looking people.

[Thanas]

Metahive, your post is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand and it is also using a lot of questionable sources. For example, your first one, is the "institute" headed by Christian Pfeiffer, aka the guy who blamed counterstrike and doom for school shootings and mass atttacks and also claimed computer games would lead people to murder and crime. He is not a credible source. Your third source is also not credible because those crime stats are essentially self-reported and a hallmark of patriarchal societies is not reporting violence against women. See for example Saudi Arabia. And your fourth source is not really something that is distinct to Germany either, nor did anybody claim anything different.

And nobody claimed that "sexual violence is an exclusive foreign import" as you put it, so bravo for knocking that strawman you erected by yourself down.


So please stop fucking up this thread even further by introducing a number of side shows and tangents.

[Thanas]

Greece had broken 2014 numbers by the first six months, but the spike was around September. For comparison; July had set a new 'record' for Greece of around 100,000 refugees. Post Merkel, that number had risen to 250,000 per month (September and November).

Yeah, the worsening war in Syria and Afghanistan could not possibly have anything to do with it.

[salm]

That's terrible, why aren't other middle eastern countries accepting refugees?

Some are accepting refugees. The others are fucking assholes just like the vast majority of all other countries.