How would you utilize a Federation army?

[vengence]

1. How would you actually go about recruiting soldiers, (must be volunteer only)?

standard federation recruiting channels. you will get all you need this way

2. How you you equip them, (can only use technology demonstrated in the various media, no 1-off superweapon stuff).

a full body semi powered environmental suit would be the way to go. tricorder built into one of the forearms large enough to be manipulated with a gloved hand. air filtration units and 1-5 hours of air depending on the mission. standard issue rifle with phaser pistol side arm,
and a combat knife as well. assorted other equipment per mission requirements.

3. What vessels would you have retrofitted or build additional, (again, keeping within established and fully realized technology)?

primarily an assault ship design used for full scale battles where military might is required. other then that redesigned shuttle craft capable of holding 14 to 20 people or serving as CAS (close air support).

4. Where would you station said soldiers, (keep a contingent on board all vessels, keep them in reserve to deployed only when needed, etc)?

primarily deployed with vessels with assault ships would be held in reserve. Units would be broken into 6 man squads(standard transporter sizes are 6 person) 4 squads per platoon, 5 platoons to a company, 4 companies to a battalion. each section from platoon up will include a command staff. the units would be deployed on ships based on size- galaxy class would likely house 1 to 2 companies depending on mission parameters. smaller vessels would normally hold 1-2 platoons. assault ships would hold battalions.

5. How or where would you train said soldiers?

training would be centrally at one location. and all training will take place there. saves a mountain of logistics. training will be about a year long including specialized training for combat medics and engineers, as both seem to be regularly needed in normal operations. Training would also need to include CQB and ship boarding and repelling training as those are also common. also include EVA training. The troops will be trained to operate in independent squads to be able to fully utilize the advantages that transporters allow you but also have combat shuttles available as well.

6. How would the chain of command function, (reports to ship's captain, has separate directives, give them their own vessels to operate)?

The chain of command would be separate for fleet personnel and soldiers. with the exception that the ranking solder would report to the ship captain.

7. Any other significant points you'd address or policies you'd enact? Would you further break this force down into more specialized squads/corps, perhaps?

The main thing to remember is that the star trek universe is not a very militarized one as a whole so fielding large standing armies would be a wast of time in most cases since they wouldn't have a whole lot to fight against.

My strategy here isn't to create a wartime fleet and army but utilize the resources available to establish better security and safety of key crew members in potentially hostile scenarios. In the series' most conflict is resolved relatively peacefully or where small man teams are able to eliminate hostilities. using this experiencing in mind having 6 man operating teams, 6 being the most standardized number of transporter pads per room. create an effective fighting force that can combat almost any situation seen in the ST series. At a fraction of the cost of fielding entire armies.

[Prometheus Unbound]

How would one reconcile training of soldiers in the military to see the enemy as "not human" (dehumanising them, to make it easier to kill them) with the Federation's overall philosophy that a gnat is the same as a person?

Would be interesting to see that double-think in action.

[Purple]

My guess would be desensitization via endless holodeck training. Make them fight and kill enemies over and over again in a setting that is essentially a video game and they'll lose sight of the reality of murder.

[NeoGoomba]

For a heavy troop deployment, I dig the idea of a Nebula-class mission pod that is actually a heavily armed assault craft that, while not warp-capable, is armored and outfitted to be a planetary C&C for large-scale missions. It could be designed to function almost like those Imperial pre-fab garrisons in SW, containing its own artillery, vehicle and troop deployment (Transporter and conventional), barracks, sensor suite, etc. Its mother ship Nebula then can stay in a geosynchronous orbit to provide orbital support/long-range interdiction.

And bring back those tactical fighters shown in DS9 for some aerospace support.

[Purple]

I am going to skip over the recruitment and organization bit for now as I am tired and focus on equipment and unit composition.
As has been said before there are exactly three roles that a federation army would need to undertake. Those being Ground Attack, Ground Defense and Boarding Actions. The first two are similar and would thus have the same requirements. But I'll start with the third.

Boarding actions take place in the tight and easily enclosed corridors of starships. Thus small unit actions are the most efficient approach. Security personnel would thus be divided up into sections of 4 men consisting of a commander and three riflemen. These teams would either be tasked with holding critical areas (such as the bridge or engineering) or roaming the ship clearing out any hostiles. The standard weapon for each of them would be a combination phaser and kinetic carbine. The kinetic component would be a light bullpup bottom ejection carbine in 5.54x39mm. And to keep the spirit of the federation alive the phaser component would be a detachable phaser pistol mounted under the barrel much in the same way we mount grenade launchers on assault rifles today. Together this combination should provide each soldier with the ability to dispatch virtually any threat they come across be it a screaming Klingon or a shielded Borg. And do so in ways ranging from a certain kill or wounding to incapacitation or disintegration. And the detachable nature of the phaser pistol would make for a good sidearm for peacetime security use on board ships. In addition to this carbine each team would have available a flame thrower just in case things get ugly.

---

Ground combat puts forth a different set of requirements upon the troops and thus requires a different organization. Both in attack and defense the troops need versatility, range and most of all firepower. The standard issue rifle would therefore need to be a revival of the 20th century OICW concept. A smart 20mm grenade launcher with its tech improved to federation standards would give each soldier unprecedented levels of firepower whilst the phaser rifle integrated in the design would make for a versatile ranged weapon. In addition to this soldiers would be issued phaser pistols as a general utility too and have at their disposal a variety of support weapons.

A standard ground combat squad would consist of 14 men. The squad commander armed with the OICW rifle, a marksmen armed with a DMRand 3 combat sections of 4 men each. Sections 1 and 2 would be built around three OICW rifles and a single kinetic squad automatic weapon. The purpose of this weapon would be to give the squad extra firepower when facing shielded opponents such as the Borg but also to provide suppression and volume of fire, something for which phaser weapons are as a rule not well suited. The third section would consist of a machine gunner issued with a full powered machine gun, two assistants armed with regular phaser rifles and a fourth man armed with a phaser rifle and a light 51mm mortar. The munitions used would be 5.54x39mm for the SAW's and 7.5x55mm Swiss for the machine gun and DMR.
This combination loadout should give each squad a nice combination of direct and indirect firepower, explosives and all the versatility provided by phaser weapons. And taken together it should ensure that the squad has many times the firepower of their opponents.

Because large field battles will be the exception rather than the norm the standard unit of deployment would be no larger than a platoon. A federation army platoon would consist of three identical squads as outlined above and a command section consisting of a platoon commander, his assistant, a field doctor, sniper team and a group of engineers whose job it would be to handle the various tech such as theater shields, transporter enhancers/jammers etc. as well as handle the anomaly of the week.

In terms of protection some sort of armor would be a good idea and so would personal shields. But if they add too much weight, bulk or are in any way inconvenient I'd go without. Protection is in my view less important than firepower for it only comes into play once firepower has failed.

---

Because large ground battles are unlikely I would skip out on having armored vehicles and instead focus on providing the troops with support in the form of gunships. A standard federation army gunship would be a combination shuttle and assault craft. The gunship would be large enough to carry a single squad of troops and the capability to rapidly disembark or teleport them in and out of combat zones as needed. In addition to this it would be armed with either a set of phasers or those cannon things used on the Defiant and externally mounted photon torpedo racks. The concept here is similar to the Soviet Mil-24. Blow a hole in enemy defenses, land troops and than stick around killing anything that threatens them.

---

Taken in combination these fast attack platoons supported by gunships and heavy firepower should be enough to overpower any garrison and capture critical location on hostile planets as well as defend such locations on friendly ones. And I foresee no more than one or two platoons ever being needed to do the job.

Once a position has been secured. Such a squad could act as a permanent defense force using the shuttle as a base of operations. Its shields, power plant and food replicators should ensure they have quite enough staying power holding what they need to hold.

[vengence]

Boarding actions take place in the tight and easily enclosed corridors of starships. Thus small unit actions are the most efficient approach. Security personnel would thus be divided up into sections of 4 men consisting of a commander and three riflemen. These teams would either be tasked with holding critical areas (such as the bridge or engineering) or roaming the ship clearing out any hostiles. The standard weapon for each of them would be a combination phaser and kinetic carbine. The kinetic component would be a light bullpup bottom ejection carbine in 5.54x39mm. And to keep the spirit of the federation alive the phaser component would be a detachable phaser pistol mounted under the barrel much in the same way we mount grenade launchers on assault rifles today. Together this combination should provide each soldier with the ability to dispatch virtually any threat they come across be it a screaming Klingon or a shielded Borg. And do so in ways ranging from a certain kill or wounding to incapacitation or disintegration. And the detachable nature of the phaser pistol would make for a good sidearm for peacetime security use on board ships. In addition to this carbine each team would have available a flame thrower just in case things get ugly.

Just remember kinetic weapons on spacecraft can often be bad ideas. Phaser Rifles in space would most likely be more useful than bullets as they are less likely to break things you don't want to be broken (like people your trying to capture, or warp cores). you also have issues of casings as well which can cause problems on ships(unless your using caseless rounds).

Phasers and phaser rifles are generally more variable, can charge easier so you dont have to worry about ammo the same way and generally considered more powerful than standard bullets. by all means though keep the kinetic weapons, they are very useful against enemies like the Borg. but in most scenarios that don't involve the Borg the Phasers would likely perform better.


Ground combat on the other hand all restrictions are off. Flame throwers are also extremely bad ideas on ships. unless your units have self contained breathing apparatuses. then go to town.

[biostem]

Boarding actions take place in the tight and easily enclosed corridors of starships. Thus small unit actions are the most efficient approach. Security personnel would thus be divided up into sections of 4 men consisting of a commander and three riflemen. These teams would either be tasked with holding critical areas (such as the bridge or engineering) or roaming the ship clearing out any hostiles. The standard weapon for each of them would be a combination phaser and kinetic carbine. The kinetic component would be a light bullpup bottom ejection carbine in 5.54x39mm. And to keep the spirit of the federation alive the phaser component would be a detachable phaser pistol mounted under the barrel much in the same way we mount grenade launchers on assault rifles today. Together this combination should provide each soldier with the ability to dispatch virtually any threat they come across be it a screaming Klingon or a shielded Borg. And do so in ways ranging from a certain kill or wounding to incapacitation or disintegration. And the detachable nature of the phaser pistol would make for a good sidearm for peacetime security use on board ships. In addition to this carbine each team would have available a flame thrower just in case things get ugly.

Just remember kinetic weapons on spacecraft can often be bad ideas. Phaser Rifles in space would most likely be more useful than bullets as they are less likely to break things you don't want to be broken (like people your trying to capture, or warp cores). you also have issues of casings as well which can cause problems on ships(unless your using caseless rounds).

Phasers and phaser rifles are generally more variable, can charge easier so you dont have to worry about ammo the same way and generally considered more powerful than standard bullets. by all means though keep the kinetic weapons, they are very useful against enemies like the Borg. but in most scenarios that don't involve the Borg the Phasers would likely perform better.


Ground combat on the other hand all restrictions are off. Flame throwers are also extremely bad ideas on ships. unless your units have self contained breathing apparatuses. then go to town.

I would probably keep some kinetic weapons on hand, for specific instances where they would be needed, but I concur that for general use, some sort of pulse phaser pistol or rifle would be better, (perhaps key personnel would keep a dual kinetic/phaser pistol as their sidearm).

Given that practically no one is portrayed as wearing an environmental suit, even when engaging in hostile boarding actions, I'd include some sort of quick-deploy breathing mask or enclosed helmet as a standard part of security and soldiers' gear. I may only confine actions to flooding a compartment or section of the ship with some sort of knock-out agent, but said helmet could also include IR or other cameras/filters, so that my people can also use flashbangs or similar without detriment to themselves.

I'd break the personnel into 4 or 5-man squads, and have at least 1 member carry a kit with a dermal regenerator, anti-toxin/poison kit, and some basic bandages/first aid equipment. They'd also have a simple pack that has some ration bars, flashlight, and so on - so if they get separated while deployed, basic survival doesn't become the dominant concern.

As mentioned by others, some sort of transporter enhancer/inhibitor and lifesign masker would be good to have - I'd prefer there be some sort of tight control over this aspect, so that 1 rogue soldier couldn't totally avoid capture.


As a side note - is there any instance where a constant beam phaser would be better than a pulsed one? The only thing I can think of, which is rarely depicted, is if you needed some kind of constant output, like when Belanna adapted a hand phaser into a temporary forcefield.

[Purple]

Just remember kinetic weapons on spacecraft can often be bad ideas. Phaser Rifles in space would most likely be more useful than bullets as they are less likely to break things you don't want to be broken (like people your trying to capture, or warp cores). you also have issues of casings as well which can cause problems on ships(unless your using caseless rounds).

That's why I propose the dual weapon setup. Each rifle has a phaser pistol mounted under the barrel and the soldier can fire one or the other depending on the circumstances. Need to fight around a warp core? Use the phaser. Need to clear a corridor of Borg or rowdy Klingons? Use the rifle.

This is especially true if kinetic weapons can shoot through shields in general. I do not know if this is the case or if it is only the case with Borg personal shields. But if you can devise shields that are permeable to kinetic weapons suddenly you can wall corridors off and fire from behind cover whilst your enemy keeps ineffectually shooting their phasers at your shield. Something to consider.

Phasers and phaser rifles are generally more variable, can charge easier so you dont have to worry about ammo the same way and generally considered more powerful than standard bullets. by all means though keep the kinetic weapons, they are very useful against enemies like the Borg. but in most scenarios that don't involve the Borg the Phasers would likely perform better.

On the other hand phser rifles have demonstrated them self as slow firing, blockable by a variety of materials and personal shields etc. In general I find them to be a step neither forward nor backward but sideways of modern firearms. I certainly recognize their uses. But they are not miracle weapons. A phaser rifle can not suppress. And I doubt it can perform reliably over extreme ranges like a sniper rifle. Which is why I propose a combination squad layout. The primary weapon being indeed based on a phaser rifle (with an added grenade launcher) but supported by kinetic weapons in the roles where they outperform phasers.

Ground combat on the other hand all restrictions are off. Flame throwers are also extremely bad ideas on ships. unless your units have self contained breathing apparatuses. then go to town.

You are way over thinking this. Star trek has time and time again demonstrated that the only time life support can not cope with fire or other massive hazards is when it is plot convenient for it to fail. Otherwise it seems to work fine through just about anything. But yes, all shipboard troops should be issued with self contained space suits when attacking enemy ships. That sort of goes without saying. Otherwise what's stopping the enemy from just opening a window on them?

[Lord Revan]

Kinetics shields are a thing in ST though we've seen them only on Starships or similar large installations (and one questionble case "on ground" in a Holodeck) though personal shields are rare anyway which suggests there's something about that tech that main AQ powers can't use it (maybe it's too bulky or not powerful enough (the holodeck example was against wild west era revolver after all)).

Honestly against anything but the Borg phasers are alot better then kinetic weapons.


You got more shots per "magazine", most assault rifles have 20-30 rounds per mag and even something like a P90 has only 50 (IIRC) rounds per mag, hell even most machine gun belts are 200 rounds per belt (IIRC) and I don't see that becoming much bigger (even the 20 round mags are quite heavy), while we've never seen a phaser being reloaded on screen suggesting a rather large number of "shots"

Phasers have variable settings for security/capture use or hard targets, while you cannot set a bullet to "stun" they only got "kill" nor can you make bullets deadlier with a touch of a button.

as Energy weapons they seem to have rather low penetration, but that's rarely a major problem and you could use things like flashbang granades to work around that.

[Purple]

Honestly against anything but the Borg phasers are alot better then kinetic weapons.

I disagree for a number of reasons.

You got more shots per "magazine", most assault rifles have 20-30 rounds per mag and even something like a P90 has only 50 (IIRC) rounds per mag, hell even most machine gun belts are 200 rounds per belt (IIRC) and I don't see that becoming much bigger (even the 20 round mags are quite heavy), while we've never seen a phaser being reloaded on screen suggesting a rather large number of "shots"

Which given the weight of modern small arm munitions is largely irrelevant. A modern soldier can carry upwards of 300 rounds on his body without it impeding him in any meaningful way. And every single loadout I suggested either has soldiers in a position where they newer have to walk far with the ammo (inside their own ship) or where only a few men need ammo but the whole squad can carry spares. And the act of reloading only takes a couple seconds even with a slow belt fed machine gun. This is why no modern military seriously considers reloading times to be an issue. So this issue is well and truly moot.

Phasers have variable settings for security/capture use or hard targets, while you cannot set a bullet to "stun" they only got "kill" nor can you make bullets deadlier with a touch of a button.

Which is why I am not against them on principal and why I include one in every single one of the suggested loadouts. However and this is something you keep ignoring there are a good deal of things phasers can not do.

Fundamentally speaking a phaser weapon is as I said a step sideways. It offers some new and desirable capabilities but it also loses some things inherent in a modern design. Every time you see them used ST bean weapons are always employed in slow aimed shots. Quite often the user even has to stand still pointing the beam at a target whilst it slowly inches its way across (relative to a modern bullet). And that is all fine and well for certain roles such as a long ranged rifle or a security tool as you suggested. But all this also means that it is going to be rubbish at things such as suppressing and covering fire or clearing hallways and rooms. A modern assault rifle firing 800 rounds per minute allows you to pop up from cover or behind a corner, drop everyone in sight and pop back in the time it takes you to hit just one man with a hand phaser. And in tight confined quarters that capability is infinitely important.

This is why melee combat is considered practical in ST ground warfare. If the federation rifleman misses or his target manages to keep going after being hit by the first shot the time required until the followup is such that he can and will close into melee range and hack you up.

And whilst the ability to not kill might sound important I will ask you to remember that if your ship is being boarded or you are boarding a ship the time for security work is over. It's a battle now. And unless the enemy is an officer or something you want him dead.

[Lord Revan]

Honestly against anything but the Borg phasers are alot better then kinetic weapons.

I disagree for a number of reasons.

that is obviously your right, but it doesn't mean you're correct

You got more shots per "magazine", most assault rifles have 20-30 rounds per mag and even something like a P90 has only 50 (IIRC) rounds per mag, hell even most machine gun belts are 200 rounds per belt (IIRC) and I don't see that becoming much bigger (even the 20 round mags are quite heavy), while we've never seen a phaser being reloaded on screen suggesting a rather large number of "shots"

Which given the weight of modern small arm munitions is largely irrelevant. A modern soldier can carry upwards of 300 rounds on his body without it impeding him in any meaningful way. And every single loadout I suggested either has soldiers in a position where they newer have to walk far with the ammo (inside their own ship) or where only a few men need ammo but the whole squad can carry spares. And the act of reloading only takes a couple seconds even with a slow belt fed machine gun. This is why no modern military seriously considers reloading times to be an issue. So this issue is well and truly moot.

it's less of the matter how much a person can and how much a magazine can fit. I've never heard of soldiers carrying more then 2 reloads on their person, oh and as far as I know Phaser powerpacks aren't explosive (which bullets have be to work).

Phasers have variable settings for security/capture use or hard targets, while you cannot set a bullet to "stun" they only got "kill" nor can you make bullets deadlier with a touch of a button.

Which is why I am not against them on principal and why I include one in every single one of the suggested loadouts. However and this is something you keep ignoring there are a good deal of things phasers can not do.

Fundamentally speaking a phaser weapon is as I said a step sideways. It offers some new and desirable capabilities but it also loses some things inherent in a modern design. Every time you see them used ST bean weapons are always employed in slow aimed shots. Quite often the user even has to stand still pointing the beam at a target whilst it slowly inches its way across (relative to a modern bullet). And that is all fine and well for certain roles such as a long ranged rifle or a security tool as you suggested. But all this also means that it is going to be rubbish at things such as suppressing and covering fire or clearing hallways and rooms. A modern assault rifle firing 800 rounds per minute allows you to pop up from cover or behind a corner, drop everyone in sight and pop back in the time it takes you to hit just one man with a hand phaser. And in tight confined quarters that capability is infinitely important.

This is why melee combat is considered practical in ST ground warfare. If the federation rifleman misses or his target manages to keep going after being hit by the first shot the time required until the followup is such that he can and will close into melee range and hack you up.

And whilst the ability to not kill might sound important I will ask you to remember that if your ship is being boarded or you are boarding a ship the time for security work is over. It's a battle now. And unless the enemy is an officer or something you want him dead.

actually both Klingon Disruptors (in TNG so less in the episode with future Alexander for example) and the MACO rifles in ENT show rapid snap fire capablities so those problems seem more tactical then technological. also you're kind of over selling the killing power of modern Assault rifles, sure person might eventually be dead but in tight corridors you're more then likely end up in melee range or close to it anyway before the target stops moving, and that's assuming you don't end confinding yourself due to having a long barrel weapon.

[Purple]

it's less of the matter how much a person can and how much a magazine can fit. I've never heard of soldiers carrying more then 2 reloads on their person, oh and as far as I know Phaser powerpacks aren't explosive (which bullets have be to work).

You have newer heard of soldiers having more than 2 magazines on their person at once? That sort of thing has not been the case since like 1917. A modern infantry load typically has much more. To quote an official american army document.

10.0 THE MODERN WARRIOR’S COMBAT LOAD / 10.1.1.3 The Rifleman (Page 20)

A. Worn on Body/Uniform:
• M4 Carbine with PEQ-2 Laser/PAQ-4 Laser, ACOG/CCO, and 30 rounds of 5.56mm ball
ammunition.
• Desert Camouflage Uniform with Infrared Tape on left sleeve (1”x1”).
• Desert Combat Boots.
• Dog Tags.
• ID Card.
• Undershirt.
• Socks.
• Tactical gloves.
• Interceptor Body Armor with two Small Arms Protective Inserts.
• Advanced Combat Helmet with night vision mounting plate.
• Rigger belt.
• Notebook and pen.
• Watch.
• Knee and elbow pads.
• Sun, Sand, and Dust type Goggles or Wiley-X Goggles.
• Folding Knife/Multi-tool.

B. Worn on Fighting Load Carrier/Interceptor Body Armor:
• MOLLE Fighting Load Carrier with modular MOLLE pouches.
• 180 rounds of 5.56mm ball ammunition.
• Bayonet.
• Fragmentation grenade.
• 64 ounces of water in two 1-quart canteens.
• 100 ounces of water in a hydration bladder.
• Casualty and witness cards.
• Flex cuffs for personnel under custody.
• Night vision equipment (PVS-14/PVS-7).
• Iodine tablets.

So that is a total of 210 rounds or 7 loaded magazines. And that's for troops that are expected to carry all the other listed items to allow them to fight in the field as opposed to casually walking in a desert.

I'll respond to the rest later. Got to run.

[vengence]

after doing some research

here http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Phaser_type-3

Both the facsimile and Federation rifles had an output of 1.05 MW.

1.05 MWs translates into 1,050,000 j/s(joules per second) the standard rifle had an efficiency of roughly 86.1%. as stated shortly later in the paragraph.
this gives us a beam strength of 904,050 j/s at the tip of the barrel. roughly 904 kw.

here is a good chart of weapon comparisons.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/r ... mintro.php

The standard 5.56 nato round has a rough power output of 1.822 j. or 1.8 almost 500 times weaker than the phaser rifle.
A standard hand grenade has a rough power output of 950,000 j or or 950 kj which is only a little but stronger than the phaser rifle.


*note: seeing as this puts the phaser rifles beam strength as a rough equivalent as a grenade and we don't see that kind of damage from the weapon in most cases. it is likely that this is on the maximum strength setting and is generally fired at significantly lower outputs.

[Lord Revan]

You don't need higher settings then what kills or stuns but the flexibility is good to have there and since they're beams or focused pulses phasers generally won't cause as much collateral damage (it's more then just euphamism for civilian casualties) so generally can sure them close to things that you don't want to break. Oh and phasers have next to no recoil.

[Borgholio]

*note: seeing as this puts the phaser rifles beam strength as a rough equivalent as a grenade and we don't see that kind of damage from the weapon in most cases. it is likely that this is on the maximum strength setting and is generally fired at significantly lower outputs.

This issue has come up before...the idea that phasers have such a high power setting that there's no way they match with what we see onscreen. Take Star Trek 3 for instance. Kirk's hand phaser (without recoil) knocked a Klingon 20+ feet back with a single hit. That should have generated enough recoil to break Kirk's wrist. Or the amount of energy to do that should have turned the Klingon into a purple mist instead of tossing him back. It appears to be a trope that the latest SW movie echoed with Chewie's bowcaster knocking a stormtrooper head over heels without vaporizing his head in the process.

[Prometheus Unbound]

A standard hand grenade has a rough power output of 950,000 j or or 950 kj which is only a little but stronger than the phaser rifle.

grenade goes off in all directions though. A phaser is concentrated all in one go.

It's .. almost exactly analagous to a 1.05MW light bulb and a 1.05MW laser.

The light bulb will be flipping bright and light up a small town. The laser will be able to cut through the town



Yes 1.05MW isn't what we normally see coming out as they're normally on stun/kill rather than vapourise. However we've seen them (or at least hand phasers) disintegrate rock / metal / people / whatever before. And Worf's "purple space bazooka" in ST:I landed shots that seemed to cause explosions like a small grenade.

Phasers also have some form of kinetic element to them - people being thrown back etc. Disruptors as well.

Watch the clip at 4:12

https://youtu.be/21L22C5AjoE?t=4m12s

Both Bajoran phasers and Klingon disruptors send the targets flying back - Klingon weapons especially.

[Prometheus Unbound]

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^^ I just noticed, the Klingon who gets shot first by the Bajoran on the walkway (before being shot himself and thrown backwards), the Klingon drops his disruptor and it breaks in half >< Half the prop flies back to the wall, the other half goes forward hehehehe.

[vengence]

I wouldn't use the word "flying" we see roughly similar effects from people getting punched. My hypothesis is its more a nervous system response to absorbing kilo-Jules of energy. in layman terms: muscle spasms. We see them "thrown" off their feet up into the air as well as backwards. this wouldn't be consistent with the direction of energy as they would just go backwards with kinetic energy.

grenade goes off in all directions though. A phaser is concentrated all in one go.

It's .. almost exactly analagous to a 1.05MW light bulb and a 1.05MW laser.

The light bulb will be flipping bright and light up a small town. The laser will be able to cut through the town

I am just stating that on the atomic rockets page I referenced the power output similar to what I said was similar to a grenades. I was not implying anything further beyond that initial comparison. Although it is stated that the phaser rifles do have wide beam settings that can hit multiple targets at once which would a similar energy dispersion pattern as a shaped charge.

I believe the maximum power output would be most likely used on the wide beam setting as it would require significantly greater amounts on energy to generate the same results on individuals.

[Borgholio]

I wouldn't use the word "flying" we see roughly similar effects from people getting punched. My hypothesis is its more a nervous system response to absorbing kilo-Jules of energy. in layman terms: muscle spasms. We see them "thrown" off their feet up into the air as well as backwards. this wouldn't be consistent with the direction of energy as they would just go backwards with kinetic energy.

A muscle spasm wouldn't cause someone to jump 20 feet backwards.

[NecronLord]

With regard to phaser rates of fire, the most recent examples of Romulan/Reman and Federation rifles actually operate a decent semi-auto burst capacity:



The Reman ones even have a couple of little spikey things on the front that could potentially be employed as bayonets,

Given that the Jem'hadar rifles were a pulse-based weapon with a blade on the front, I can only assume that the Federation and Romulans upgraded their rifles to match during or after the Dominion War. But certainly these weapons already have the proposed semi-automatic pulse based system in them.

[biostem]

I wonder if a setup like either the Predator's shoulder-mounted plasmacaster, or a Super Battle Droid's rapid fire dual forearm blasters, would be effective.

[Prometheus Unbound]

I wouldn't use the word "flying"

I would

Remember Kirk firing his in ST3, it thew a Klingon back 10-15 feet ><


Other times: like against the Borg in STFC, it makes them take a step backwards when they're hit.

The phasers the Galaxies used against the cardassian ships in the opening shots of Sacrifice of Angels was pushing the ship and making it list....


I can come up with other examples. That and the fire "nadion particles" - and picard calls them a "particle weapon" in STFC - there's some particle / kinetic element to them, at least on some settings.

[vengence]

The phasers the Galaxies used against the cardassian ships in the opening shots of Sacrifice of Angels was pushing the ship and making it list....

Technically if you look close enough the ship started rotating before the galaxies even fired.

I will agree though that based on battle damage it does look like starship grade Phasers do include particle beams in them. Also It looks like it includes electromagnetic radiation, which would cause all those consoles to explode because they are being overloaded with extremely high voltage.

An application from my field of expertise the closest thing that generates the kind of killing damage as we see(outside of the physical thrown back reaction) is non ionizing radiation. which essentially cooks you from the inside out. Kind of like a microwave. in modern day application high power outputs are generally no higher that 30- 50 watts of energy which can be lethal with minutes of exposure it can be kind of slow. but using power levels thousands of times stronger it will cook you inside out within seconds. a shot to the chest means your heart lungs and whatnot would be near instantly cooked. also it can affect the nervous system depending on the frequency used causing nausea and loss of balance etc. all combined fairly well sums up the effects of phasers. also explains why peoples heads are not exploding when shot. cause it just cooks their brains(eyes should pop though but that's just in the details).

I wonder if a setup like either the Predator's shoulder-mounted plasmacaster, or a Super Battle Droid's rapid fire dual forearm blasters, would be effective.

That sounds like an awesome idea. I really like it.

[FedRebel]

1. How would you actually go about recruiting soldiers, (must be volunteer only)?

Would market service to the more...military inclined races in the Federation. Fair bet 'no sale' with the Vulcan, but the Andorians may be more eager.

Humans I'd say are 50/50, like to preach ideals, but as Quark noted during theheight of the Dominion War human savagery rivals the Klingons. In that sense recruitment campaigns focus on ground victories in recent wars with a "never again" attitude, emphasising how certain 'ancient' warmachines would've saved lives.

2. How you you equip them, (can only use technology demonstrated in the various media, no 1-off superweapon stuff).

TR-116 as the standard battle rifle, phaser rifles reserved for 'less than lethal' operations.

Some form of camouflage Battle Dress Uniform.

An 'up-armored' variant of the Argo buggy

3. What vessels would you have retrofitted or build additional, (again, keeping within established and fully realized technology)?

A new 'Flight' of Galaxy Class that does away with all the luxury comforts and serves as a troop transport/mobile star...'fort'. The ship would be able to deploy a Regiment in peace time and a full Brigade in war time

4. Where would you station said soldiers, (keep a contingent on board all vessels, keep them in reserve to deployed only when needed, etc)?

At various strategic worlds accross Federation territory, bases at Battalion strength will be maintained, and a support flee divided into several squadrons on constant patrol accoss Federation space. headed by my new GCS type and smaller support vessels (destroyer escorts, medical ship, etc.)

5. How or where would you train said soldiers?

Sector 001 initially, Earth has enough varied environments to enable competent mastery of fighting in various Class M geographic and environmental extremes. Titan would be uses for 'Hazardous atmosphere combat' special forces training. Pick a moon, any moon for low G training, list goes on.

6. How would the chain of command function, (reports to ship's captain, has separate directives, give them their own vessels to operate)?

A separate armed service Branch. The United Federation of Planets Marine Corps. (UFPMC). Largely similar relationship to the US Navy and Marines.

7. Any other significant points you'd address or policies you'd enact? Would you further break this force down into more specialized squads/corps, perhaps?

[/quote]

Special Forces geared and trained for non-Class M environments.

Somewhat unrelated would be a 'Planetary Guard' system, where each member world has it's own little army (similar tho the US National Guard system.) For that cultural diversety would be championed, and members can 'opt out' of having a planetary guard force.

[SilverDragonRed]

1. How would you actually go about recruiting soldiers, (must be volunteer only)?

2. How you you equip them, (can only use technology demonstrated in the various media, no 1-off superweapon stuff).

3. What vessels would you have retrofitted or build additional, (again, keeping within established and fully realized technology)?

4. Where would you station said soldiers, (keep a contingent on board all vessels, keep them in reserve to deployed only when needed, etc)?

5. How or where would you train said soldiers?

6. How would the chain of command function, (reports to ship's captain, has separate directives, give them their own vessels to operate)?

7. Any other significant points you'd address or policies you'd enact? Would you further break this force down into more specialized squads/corps, perhaps?

1) Use the same system that Starfleet has in place.

2) I will keep to the weapons seen in the shows and films (as tempting it is to use some Elite Force gear). Rifle elements would come equipped with the STFC phaser rifles with phaser pistol sidearms. Squad heavy weapon elements would have the same loadout with the exception being the third guy having a Worfzooka instead of rifle. Platoon heavy weapon elements come with either TR-116s (minus the transporter 'add-on') or a CRM-114 (if we're allowed to purchase weapons from outsiders). Platoon command elements are equipped with phasers carbines and pistols, and a transport inhibitor.

Armor will be a layered approach. The black combat suits seen in 'Nor Battle to the Strong' (which I believe is supposed to be knife resistant) overlayed by the Klingon mail (again, if we're allowed to purchase from outsiders). The space suits from STFC and Voyager are on a 'when necessary' basis, but painted for camouflage effect.

Company level has access to a platoon of Argos buggies (except with added windshields and a stand for the rear gun to have the ability to fire in all directions. Company command has transport inhibitors as well.

Each platoon is also assigned a hopper for air mobility. Hoppers will be changed to utilize shields and phasers that shuttles already use. In addition, a phaser bank will be put on both sides and operated by a gunner inside to provide covering fire for the troops deployed.

3) Retrofit the old Mirandas and Excelsiors.

4) Keep them in reserve to be sent where needed.

5) Train them all on Earth through the various environments, and simulate on the holodeck stuff like 'Demon class' planets.

6) Distinct chain-of-command separate from Starfleet. But the glorified U-hauls trucking them around the quadrant are operated by Starfleet.

7) Policy: Security Teams on Starfleet ships are required to undergo a crash course of the GROPO training, mainly focused on repelling boarding and CQC.

Will push for helmets to be created and added to the arsenal.