World of Warships

[Thanas]

They are not head and shoulders above. There is a difference, but I do not lack confidence engaging an Atago in my NO. It is a fun ship to play IMO.

Care to explain the large win rate and damage differences between the New Orleans and her non-premium counterparts the Mogami and Admiral Hipper? If the New Orleans is comparable to these ships why is her best W/R differential 2.8% and her best damage differential 4,118?

So? These numbers aren't that different. At best it is 5% difference. This is easily enough explained by the fact that you have to play the New Orleans a whole different way than the Pensicola, whereas the Mogami isn't that different. In essence, people are used to one, but not the other playstyle.

You can fire at least one spread by turning your ship a few degrees of center

Which is enough to get citadelled.

and if you're inclined to wiggle on your way in you can use the other set of forward tubes as well.

Which takes time.

The same is true if something is giving chase. Now these torpedos probably won't hit, but even missed torpedos can wind up forcing a course change which can cause ships to expose a broadside to you or your allies, make them run aground, or even make them break off the chase entirely. This is all something the Atago and Mogami can do that the New Orleans can't hope to accomplish. Even the Hipper can panic torpedo something that surprises them coming around a corner, or set ambushes for the less skilled players on the enemy team. What does the New Orleans get to replace this added level of tactical flexibility?

The ability to not be food for CVs. And IMO better armor too.

You're ignoring the widely known fact that premium vehicles in WGs games always have depressed stats in a desperate attempt to win this debate.

Nope.

The Tirpitz for example has very similar stats to the NC.
The Marblehead has the best stats of all Tier V cruisers.
Followed by....the Murmansk. Another premium ship.
Fujin has by far the best stats of any T5 DD despite having lower ingame stats than the minekaze.
The Blyskawica has far better stats than the US and IJN DDs, only beat by the Kiev.

Would you like to try that again?

This is lower than calling me out for exact time stamps in a video series and then ignoring the post where I do exactly that.

I ignored it because it does not do a good job explaining why WG does the shit they do. None of it amounts to a defensible argument of their business practices, like for example the giant XP flag nerf they pulled. Not a single thing in it shows why they treat the EU server like shit. Their promise to stop bundling is worthless considering they only sell bundles with new ships atm. Their excuse of it being different teams is pure horseshit, considering they have no trouble coordinating other global events to be the same like the Arpeggio stuff.

You can go fuck yourself Thanas.

Trust me, you do not want this getting personal.

[Jub]

So? These numbers aren't that different. At best it is 5% difference. This is easily enough explained by the fact that you have to play the New Orleans a whole different way than the Pensicola, whereas the Mogami isn't that different. In essence, people are used to one, but not the other playstyle.

Given that the spread between the absolute top ships between the four servers are 11.3%, 14.2%, 17.7%, and 17.6% on the NA, EU, RU, and SEA servers respectively a 5% spread is rather large. This this is also true in things like sports where the difference between a team at the top of the league and the lowest playoff seed is often less than 15%, a five percent change is the difference between first seed and a wild card spot. Or a playoff spot and a high draft pick. This is statistics 101 shit here Thanas, don't try to play these numbers off as no big deal.

Which is enough to get citadelled.

You can have your citadel penetrated or your magazine detonated while moving perfectly head/stern on as well. It's less common, but very few ships have true immunity to these hits at any angle.

Which takes time.

As does any maneuver, but this one also gives tactical options.

The ability to not be food for CVs. And IMO better armor too.

You're ignoring the widely known fact that premium vehicles in WGs games always have depressed stats in a desperate attempt to win this debate.

Nope.

The Tirpitz for example has very similar stats to the NC.

The same NC that is by far the worst tier 8 battleship in the game based on W/R and Damage dealt per game? You just like comparing things to the worst ships in their class and then claiming that things are okay...

The Marblehead has the best stats of all Tier V cruisers.

The Marblehead was a reward for a fairly arduous mission, most scrub players didn't even attempt that mission. It's also in the running for the most overpowered ship in the game along with the Murmansk.

Followed by....the Murmansk. Another premium ship.

The Murmansk is widely regarded as the most overpowered ship in the game at tier 5.

The Blyskawica has far better stats than the US and IJN DDs, only beat by the Kiev.

The Blyskawica is in the running for the best tier 7 destroyer in the game. It's incredibly good as a stealth shooting gunboat with a great HE fire chance.

Fujin has by far the best stats of any T5 DD despite having lower ingame stats than the minekaze.

This is the only one that I don't have an easy explanation for, I suspect that the Fujin gets by due to being considered a bad value for money and not being bought by anybody that wasn't a hardcore DD fan. Though I admit that this is speculation.

Would you like to try that again?

So you've tried to use the stats for 5 premium ships out of 28 total premium ships to prove your point? You've also picked some of the most notably overpowered ships for this purpose. Why not pick the Yubari, Emden, Sims, or Atlanta for this discussion?

I ignored it because it does not do a good job explaining why WG does the shit they do. None of it amounts to a defensible argument of their business practices, like for example the giant XP flag nerf they pulled. Not a single thing in it shows why they treat the EU server like shit. Their promise to stop bundling is worthless considering they only sell bundles with new ships atm. Their excuse of it being different teams is pure horseshit, considering they have no trouble coordinating other global events to be the same like the Arpeggio stuff.

The EU probably gets treated like shit because the player bases in richer nations are being used to subsidize the players from places where a premium ship is more than a months rent. This was explained in the videos if you'd pay attention.

As for global stuff, that's a new thing, global scale stuff has never really happened before in WoT or WoWS. Maybe it's part of a new strategy going forward, or just some rare one-off event. Even the Project R rewards are different between regions, so I wouldn't expect to see many globally executed promotions with equal cost and reward in the future. If you knew anything about WGs history you'd know how rare something like Arpeggio is.

Trust me, you do not want this getting personal.

Or what? You'll abuse your mod powers like you've threatened to do in debates before?

Go. Fuck. Yourself.

[Thanas]

Given that the spread between the absolute top ships between the four servers are 11.3%, 14.2%, 17.7%, and 17.6% on the NA, EU, RU, and SEA servers respectively a 5% spread is rather large. This this is also true in things like sports where the difference between a team at the top of the league and the lowest playoff seed is often less than 15%, a five percent change is the difference between first seed and a wild card spot. Or a playoff spot and a high draft pick. This is statistics 101 shit here Thanas, don't try to play these numbers off as no big deal.

But they are no big deal. A more skilled player will always be more likely to win over an unskilled player. No matter the ship. The statistics are not so bad to suggest otherwise.

Which is enough to get citadelled.

You can have your citadel penetrated or your magazine detonated while moving perfectly head/stern on as well. It's less common, but very few ships have true immunity to these hits at any angle.

A) Not by a fellow cruiser
B) If you play high tier without a detonation flag, you are an utter moron, considerig even HE from DDs can detonate BBs.

As does any maneuver, but this one also gives tactical options.

It will take several tens of seconds and if the target is for example traveling towards you, you have to do a near full turn and expose yourself anyway. So only morons try this.

The only thing where this is good is when the target is more than 9km aways from you....but if you eat torps from ten kms out then you are a potato and deserve to be sunk anyway.

The same NC that is by far the worst tier 8 battleship in the game based on W/R and Damage dealt per game? You just like comparing things to the worst ships in their class and then claiming that things are okay...

No, I am using it to counter your claim that premium ships always must have depressed stats.

The Marblehead was a reward for a fairly arduous mission, most scrub players didn't even attempt that mission.

.....there were over 3000 given away on reddit to anybody who could change song lyrics to reference a warship.

Fujin has by far the best stats of any T5 DD despite having lower ingame stats than the minekaze.

This is the only one that I don't have an easy explanation for, I suspect that the Fujin gets by due to being considered a bad value for money and not being bought by anybody that wasn't a hardcore DD fan. Though I admit that this is speculation.

So your answer is simply to shout "OVERPOWERED" when the facts don't support your claim that premium warships always have depressed stats.

So you've tried to use the stats for 5 premium ships out of 28 total premium ships to prove your point? You've also picked some of the most notably overpowered ships for this purpose. Why not pick the Yubari, Emden, Sims, or Atlanta for this discussion?

You want to do this? Fine. List of premium ships and their rating on the various servers

Tier II - Tachibana (1) Emden (2) Diana (3) Mikasa (4)
Tier III - Aurora (1)
Tier IV - Imperator Nikolai (1), Iwaki (2) Arkansas (3) Ishizuchi (5) Yubari (7)
Tier V: Marblehead (1) Fujin (2) Murmansk (3) Gremyashchy (4)
Tier VI: Warspite (4)
Tier VII: Blyskawica (2), Sims is last ship (but then again has not been buffed since...forever)
Tier VIII: Mikhail Kutuzov (2), Tirpitz (8), Atago (last ship)

So no, the argument does not hold water that premium ships on average are performing worse. If anything, this suggests that save for two exceptions they dominate.

The EU probably gets treated like shit because the player bases in richer nations are being used to subsidize the players from places where a premium ship is more than a months rent. This was explained in the videos if you'd pay attention.

So? That does not make it good business practice. Nor does it explain or excuse it (unless you want to argue that it is ok to treat people like shit because they come from different regions). And no, it is not about money. It is how everybody on the SEA server or RU server gets a free ship. EU and NA do not.

As for global stuff, that's a new thing, global scale stuff has never really happened before in WoT or WoWS. Maybe it's part of a new strategy going forward, or just some rare one-off event. Even the Project R rewards are different between regions, so I wouldn't expect to see many globally executed promotions with equal cost and reward in the future. If you knew anything about WGs history you'd know how rare something like Arpeggio is.

More of the same old "it is good because it has always been done this way and that is why I will defend it".

Or what? You'll abuse your mod powers like you've threatened to do in debates before?

Provide proof immediately or retract that accusation.

Go. Fuck. Yourself.

Meet me on any server, any time, any ship. If you got the balls....

Oh wait. The WG algorithm would never put us in the same match lol based on your stats.

[Jub]

But they are no big deal. A more skilled player will always be more likely to win over an unskilled player. No matter the ship. The statistics are not so bad to suggest otherwise.

So we should balance ships based on the top ranked players rather than the server average now?

A) Not by a fellow cruiser

Untrue, if rare.

B) If you play high tier without a detonation flag, you are an utter moron, considerig even HE from DDs can detonate BBs.

So what if you run out? You can't just buy flags on the NA server like you can on the EU server. We haven't had flag packs on sale for months now.

It will take several tens of seconds and if the target is for example traveling towards you, you have to do a near full turn and expose yourself anyway. So only morons try this.

The only thing where this is good is when the target is more than 9km aways from you....but if you eat torps from ten kms out then you are a potato and deserve to be sunk anyway.

It's still an option that the New Orleans lacks, and one that works against the average player. Most players are terrible at the game, so torps hit where they really shouldn't. This is a fact and it works against the NO.

No, I am using it to counter your claim that premium ships always must have depressed stats.

They probably do anyway, but it's hard to prove. I'd love to see what the bottom 25% in terms of stats in premiums versus normal ships look like, but that's not data I have access to.

.....there were over 3000 given away on reddit to anybody who could change song lyrics to reference a warship.

On all servers, or just on the EU? Also what percentage of all Marbleheads are those?

So your answer is simply to shout "OVERPOWERED" when the facts don't support your claim that premium warships always have depressed stats.

Those ships probably do have depressed stats compared to what they would have if they were normal ships. We've seen this with premium tanks in WoT and I've seen nothing to show that this wouldn't be the case in WoWS.

You want to do this? Fine. List of premium ships and their rating on the various servers

Tier II - Tachibana (1) Emden (2) Diana (3) Mikasa (4)
Tier III - Aurora (1)
Tier IV - Imperator Nikolai (1), Iwaki (2) Arkansas (3) Ishizuchi (5) Yubari (7)
Tier V: Marblehead (1) Fujin (2) Murmansk (3) Gremyashchy (4)
Tier VI: Warspite (4)
Tier VII: Blyskawica (2), Sims is last ship (but then again has not been buffed since...forever)
Tier VIII: Mikhail Kutuzov (2), Tirpitz (8), Atago (last ship)

So no, the argument does not hold water that premium ships on average are performing worse. If anything, this suggests that save for two exceptions they dominate.

That implies that WoWS premiums are OP.

The simple fact is premium ships generally fall into one of two categories in terms of stats. Popular and those depressed due to being purchased by players who want to skip the grind right from the word go. Or, unpopular and only played by a small percentage of players, these vehicles usually have improved stats due to the dedicated players who play them.

So? That does not make it good business practice. Nor does it explain or excuse it (unless you want to argue that it is ok to treat people like shit because they come from different regions). And no, it is not about money. It is how everybody on the SEA server or RU server gets a free ship. EU and NA do not.

SEA is run by an entirely different company, and WG has always favored their Russian player base. It wouldn't surprise me to see them go even crazier with the gifts for RU to improve low player numbers.

More of the same old "it is good because it has always been done this way and that is why I will defend it".

When did I say it was good? I simply said that it's how they've always done things. Do you honestly think that I wouldn't want the same love that the RU and SEA get in terms of free ships?

Provide proof immediately or retract that accusation.

So....go fuck off, especially with the insinuation under b), for which I have got half a mind for warning you.

It's unbecoming of a mod to threaten to warn a person they're debating with Thanas. if you have an issue use the proper channels like the rest of us.

Meet me on any server, any time, any ship. If you got the balls....

Oh wait. The WG algorithm would never put us in the same match lol based on your stats.

My stats have been steadily going up. The main reason my stats are shit is lack of caring, grinding every tree at once rather grinding out say US BBs and then moving on.

Also, I don't care how large your WoWS E-peen is.

[Thanas]

So we should balance ships based on the top ranked players rather than the server average now?

No, but without providing general stats on how they performed in the last months the argument is not worth much. For example, my plane shot down average has gone down due to lack of carriers not due to AA getting worse.

Likewise, my average in the US DDs has gone up due to lack of CV instead of the ships getting better - rather, US DDs have gotten nerfed with their shell arc.

A) Not by a fellow cruiser

Untrue, if rare.

Pics or it didn't happen. The Atago cannot be citadelled from the front by another cruiser at least not in the current state it is in.

B) If you play high tier without a detonation flag, you are an utter moron, considerig even HE from DDs can detonate BBs.

So what if you run out? You can't just buy flags on the NA server like you can on the EU server. We haven't had flag packs on sale for months now.

Didn't know that, my apologies.

It's still an option that the New Orleans lacks

An option that is worth shit.

, and one that works against the average player. Most players are terrible at the game, so torps hit where they really shouldn't. This is a fact and it works against the NO.

It doesn't really work.

.....there were over 3000 given away on reddit to anybody who could change song lyrics to reference a warship.

On all servers, or just on the EU?

All servers.

Also what percentage of all Marbleheads are those?

Don't know, wg doesn't release those numbers.

Those ships probably do have depressed stats compared to what they would have if they were normal ships. We've seen this with premium tanks in WoT and I've seen nothing to show that this wouldn't be the case in WoWS.

....besides the usual rule of premium tanks being slightly worse than standard tanks not being applicable to WOWs.

That implies that WoWS premiums are OP.

I would argue most of them are. Point is, you can't have it both ways. If you claim Premium ship stats are depressed then why are they dominating regular ships

The simple fact is premium ships generally fall into one of two categories in terms of stats. Popular and those depressed due to being purchased by players who want to skip the grind right from the word go. Or, unpopular and only played by a small percentage of players, these vehicles usually have improved stats due to the dedicated players who play them.

You assume things not in evidence.

When did I say it was good? I simply said that it's how they've always done things. Do you honestly think that I wouldn't want the same love that the RU and SEA get in terms of free ships?

Then why the fuck do you continue to defend their practices?

It's unbecoming of a mod to threaten to warn a person they're debating with Thanas. if you have an issue use the proper channels like the rest of us.

The attack was made against somebody else. I can perfectly well enforce personal attacks made against somebody else. In fact, it is my job. So....where is your proof that I use my mod powers to stifle debate again?

My stats have been steadily going up.

Still shit though. Especially that negative K/D....atrocious. And under 30k damage? What is up with that?
Fact is you have not managed a single positive winrate in any post T6 ship. Your cruiser stats are horrible. So why should your opinions on cruiser gameplay be held in any favor?

grinding every tree at once

Most players do that, including me. Probably is even beneficial for your stats because you get an inkling how ships are played. BTW, our average tier played is nearly the same so that is not really it.

[Jub]

No, but without providing general stats on how they performed in the last months the argument is not worth much. For example, my plane shot down average has gone down due to lack of carriers not due to AA getting worse.

Likewise, my average in the US DDs has gone up due to lack of CV instead of the ships getting better - rather, US DDs have gotten nerfed with their shell arc.

I don't have those stats and I know you don't either. The best I can do is work with the public stats because that's still better than looking at the play of a single player.

Pics or it didn't happen. The Atago cannot be citadelled from the front by another cruiser at least not in the current state it is in.

I admit, I'm probably thinking of detonations in this case. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if a dead on AP shot from a cruisers has citadelled an Atago in it's current state.

Didn't know that, my apologies.

No worries. Shit happens.

An option that is worth shit.

So explain the damage gap between the NO compared to the Mogami and Hipper? I expect that it's down to the torpedos and the fact that average/below average players are getting hits with them.

It doesn't really work.

Then explain the average damage numbers.

All servers.

Damn, I should have done that. I missed that ship due to not playing much while the kill contest was on.

Don't know, wg doesn't release those numbers.

Neither do I, but I suspect that 3,000k isn't that large a percentage. I also suspect that the average forum goer is a cut above the average player just by virtue of a stronger interest in the game.

....besides the usual rule of premium tanks being slightly worse than standard tanks not being applicable to WOWs.

Not all premium tanks are worse, they're usually balanced to be between a stock tank and the fully upgraded version, but this balance can and is off in many cases. Even so tanks that are 'balanced' in that way, like the Lowe and T-34, are far better tanks that their W/R would suggest.

I would argue most of them are. Point is, you can't have it both ways. If you claim Premium ship stats are depressed then why are they dominating regular ships.

I would argue that the stats are lower than they would be if they were exactly the same but instead part of the tech tree.

You assume things not in evidence.

That's the way the stats have always broken down in tanks. The player base in WoWS is very similar, if smaller, so I see no reason it wouldn't hold.

Then why the fuck do you continue to defend their practices?

I don't feel that I have been, I'm just telling it how I think it is. I know that WG isn't fair across regions and that their staff has some ass-backwards ideas on game balance and promotions, but I've been dealing with this since WoT was in beta so I just shrug it off.

The attack was made against somebody else. I can perfectly well enforce personal attacks made against somebody else. In fact, it is my job. So....where is your proof that I use my mod powers to stifle debate again?

I misread that then. I'll retract that statement.

Still shit though. Especially that negative K/D....atrocious. And under 30k damage? What is up with that?

Fact is you have not managed a single positive winrate in any post T6 ship. So why should your opinions on gameplay be held in any favor?

I'm not a super strong player. I also suspect that I have fewer games played than you do. I also somewhat blame my depression, try playing a game when you hardly care about eating or self-care and feel like you're running on half your normal sleep. It's not great for anything, let alone your stats in a video game.

As for my tier 7 games, I have all of 22 games played in not shit ships. My Lolorado stats are, W/R excepted, well above average. The Błyskawica is also in the same category. I'm not even going to look at the stats on the Sims and Atlanta because those are joke ships with the current game balance.

For tier 8, I'm just not very well adapted to that meta. Most of my Atago games were played before these past few months where my stats have been climbing, and I've admitted to struggling with the North Carolina. I'm not playing either of those ships at the moment while I'm working on getting better at the game.

As to why my thoughts should matter, consider the number of great coaches and managers who were never good players. One doesn't need to play well to understand a game.

Most players do that, including me. Probably is even beneficial for your stats because you get an inkling how ships are played. BTW, our average tier played is nearly the same so that is not really it.

Our average tier is the same, but I'd bet your games played are much higher than mine. You're probably also just a better player than I am even when I'm clear headed and not suffering from a bought of depression. Maybe that will change when I start my new perscription and my stats will jump, or maybe I'm just not that good anyway. It really doesn't bother me that much either way.

-----

I'm also going to come out and say that I'm sorry for being an ass this past volley of posts. My head isn't exactly on straight at the moment, but that's no excuse to take things out on you.

[Venator]

I think that, really, all we need to do to balance out the high-tier US CAs is a spinal-mounted supergravity cannon.

That way they can retain their artillery focus, while gaining the additional area denial benefit of splitting the ocean in half with forcefield projectors. As supergravity weapons have a long charge time and render the ship very vulnerable to torpedoes, it's balanced fairly well against DDs and Japanese cruisers so the US cruisers don't suddenly become overpowered.



(end attempt to inject much-needed levity)

[Sea Skimmer]

Na, they should have more accurate guns, better shells and better quality armor, all real advantages of American cruisers. Meanwhile all ships with torpedo tubes should be subject to the torpedoes on deck being exploded if the mount is struck when loaded, with a 50% probability of utter destruction of the ship. Actually that mechanic alone would solve everything. If strafing ever appears as a mechanic this shall also have a random chance of exploding torpedoes on deck.

All Japanese cruisers will get a +70000% capsizing modifier too. German ships should gain a 9 billion percent stern detachment modifier, which can be treated as loss of the rudder to avoid graphical mods.

Also in every game an American cruiser appears in it should have three dopplegangers. One will have its bow fall off and retreat backwards but the rest will mimic the players ship and utterly drown the enemy in shellfire, even if he doesn't exist and is in fact a mountain top 100 miles away. In the event all of them are still sunk the opponent will then have his engine permanently disabled because he has run out of fuel.

Implementing even a fraction of this plan would surely eliminate any problem, though I'm not very convinced one really exists if you can aim your damn 8in guns. An Atago can loose half its health to three Pensacola rounds penetrating, and be penetrated at least on the beam at any range you can hit the damn thing. Enemy battleships might be annoying but the point of the American tree is to be an excellent escort and follow your own battleships around. The point of Japanese cruisers is to zerg the enemy and die for the Emperor.

[Nephtys]

Ranked players are much, much worse than normal.

I've played a string of unbroken 6v7s, and had one game where an allied New Mexico was solo'd by a Furutaka with guns alone. What... the hell?

Likewise, why would anyone take anything but an elited Tier 6 into the earlier rounds? There's zero reason to bring a Furutaka or a New York.

[Venator]

Fabulous, and weird, photo-finish game in my Bogue, while grinding out the AA kills for the ABS Kongo (28 that game, not really bothered by the deadline...).

We were down to a Bogue, a Kongo and a Hosho against another Kongo and a Minekaze. Despite me directly warning him not to, our Kongo turned into, rammed, and went down with his opposite number. He then congratulated himself because DDs are much easier for lone carriers to handle than 25% health multi-fire battleships... right?

I managed to knacker him with my dive bombers, but he was coming straight for us. And I do mean straight, did he somehow not see our Hosho's torpedo bombers?

Oh, no, he's turning, there's no way he's going to... boom. Well, that was easier than expected.

In the same game, I burned a 20k+ health New York to death with one dive bomber attack. Really.

Ranked players are much, much worse than normal.

I've played a string of unbroken 6v7s, and had one game where an allied New Mexico was solo'd by a Furutaka with guns alone. What... the hell?

Likewise, why would anyone take anything but an elited Tier 6 into the earlier rounds? There's zero reason to bring a Furutaka or a New York.

Probably because they don't know better. First ranked game I brought my (fully upgraded, at least) Konigsberg. Realized I was better of waiting till I had a similarly kitted-out T6 before going back.

[Nephtys]

Completed a 8 game win-streak in Ranked to get to 15 by grinding out games with New Mex... got real lucky for a few of those. One-shot a Kongo with an opening volley from a New Mexico though, with 5 cits! Quite disgusting when you see those triple tracers go in a tight cluster at last. Another game had the bizzare case of catching a Bogue unawares around a corner and letting secondaries obliterate her.

Looks like for early ranked, the only scary things you'll see are Fuso/New Mex (more New Mex than Fuso), Cleveland/Konigs and Minekazes. Everything else is pretty much meh filler.

[Thanas]

Prepare for the joys when the enemy ships have Atagos, Amagis and Tirpitz while you are stuck with Pepsi and Colorado.

[Nephtys]

I'll use Secret Santa Tirpitz there, thankyouverymuch! Or Benson (when I get it out of this Mahan), queen of the ranked seas.

[Thanas]

Ranked right now is such uncomfortable shit that I wonder if I should stop caring. WG slready broke the promise of a reward ship last season and it is not as if I need the money with a 52mil bank.

[Venator]

Need some feedback from more experienced players on the German cruiser line...

I've just unlocked the Nurnberg, and am about 70% of the way to having four free skill points.

I love the Konigsberg to death and am nearly convinced on keeping it as a permanent addition to the port, but I hear deeply conflicting views on if the Nurnberg is an upgrade or not.

I'm also torn between the rank 4 skills. Some people recommend Demolition Expert so HE is useful against battleships, others say the way the game does the math makes it useless.

Beyond that, I'm torn between Advanced Firing Training (+ ALL THE RANGE, + better AA, - hard to hit anything at that range) and Last Stand, because the K-Berg is made of tinfoil.

[Thanas]

Currently 80k xp in the yorck with all upgrades.

Post T6 AFT is close to useless as it will no longer affect your main battery (due to 203+ guns). CVs do not give a shit about normal AA, only thing that scares them in a German cruiser is defensive fire. Last stand is also useless on higher tiers in a cruiser, far better to just run premium damage control. The 22k credits you spend on it are worth it.

Demolition expert is the way to go. That increases your fire chance to 16%, aka normal US cruiser chance. Your HE will still suck but you will now be able to start fires on BBs.

But be warned - post T6 German cruisers suck. The Yorck has only got decent AP but the firing arc of a cleveland, so your shots will often just bounce. Yorck is a shitty ship unless you are in brawler range of around 10-12k. But a brawling CA is still a useless ship, especially because the torps only got short range.

The Yorck is basically a Pensacola with shortrange torps and shitter HE.

Apparently it gets better at the Roon but Yorck and Hipper are ships that you probably will suffer in.

[Venator]

Thanks for all the insight.

Based on that, if I keep the captain on the Konigsberg or Nurnberg permanently, is AFT or Last Stand more worthwhile? Keeping in mind that I run premium damage control on the Konig regardless.

[Thanas]

Not really IMO because while you get more range, you will find it hard to hit DDs and CLs at that range anyway. Besides, you are already outranging T4 BBs in the Königsberg anyway. IMO Demo expert is better as it creates fires and more fires are what you need to destroy BBs.

Anyway, Yorck truly sucks. I just checked my stats - even less damage per match than the Pensacola (granted, I got 8% more winrate in it but that may just be a statistical anomaly.)

[Venator]

Thanks for the advice. Still toying with skills on the Konig, may respec at some point. Also - the HE on the Koningsberg shows only 8% chance of fire, so Demolition Expert would put it up to 11%, not 16%?

Also, hello gorgeous...

[Vendetta]

In other Wargaming anime waifu news:

[Venator]

Afraid I'm not getting that reference. Nice garage skin though, where's that from?

Based on patch notes, next ships out will be 'Pan Asian', the DD Lo Yang and one other in particular.

[Thanas]

AKA cashgrab for the chinese player base, offering reskinned Bensons for sale.

But oh lord, I am starting to hate the German cruiser line with a passion. Yorck is quite possibly the shittiest ship I have ever played, worse than the Lolorado. Takes me about four tries to get a win in her.

Second rant: Ranked. Ranked this season apparently is populated by idiots. They take T7s into matches. Jesus Christ. The amount of idiocy I have encountered....example: Last game 2 of them (Nagato and Yorck) chased a cruiser halfway across the map and left me to fight against an Atago, a Yorck, a Blykawica and a Mahan....in a Blykawica myself. Sunk everything but the Mahan, which got me. What Idiots.

Ranked this season is basically just luck because you do not know what teammates you get at the start of the match and usually they are idiots. For example, there is always the kind of idiot (usually in a DD) who goes after a cap circle on his own because he feels invincible. Probably not going to continue to play ranked, it is just a toxic shitshow.

[Thanas]

My hate for the York continues. Whereas you can easily survive and do damage with the US cruisers due to their awesome HE ammunition, fast rudder shift and good turret speed, the York has neither of those. It is like if you are playing a purely AP Pensacola with a bigger citadel.

[Venator]

From literally everything I've read, you're not alone there.

I'm very happy moving up from the Konigsberg to the Nurnberg - the faster turret spin and RoF boost, mainly - but I've got no desire to go higher.

[Thanas]

I found the Nürnberg to be a bit more stressful because occasionally you will go up against Amagis, to whom you are nothing but food thanks to their awesome accurate guns and massive citadel damage.