Mass sexual assault in Cologne, including rape cases

[madd0ct0r]

Are there any good measures of integration? Last I checked there wasn't.
Intermarriage was one. Economic success was another. In the uk indian and black Caribbean both scored very highly on one and very low on the other. Which one is integrated?

[Dominus Atheos]

Simon, the Geneva convention on refugees prohibits sending them back to warzones or torture.

Source? because the Geneva conventions I'm reading says the exact opposite:

http://www.unhcr.org/3b66c2aa10.html

Article 33

prohiBition of expulsion or return (“refoulement”)

1. No Contracting State shall expel or return (“refouler”) a refugee in any
manner whatsoever to the frontiers of territories where his life or freedom
would be threatened on account of his race, religion, nationality, member
ship of a particular social group or political opinion.

2. The benefit of the present provision may not, however, be claimed by
a refugee whom there are reasonable grounds for regarding as a danger to
the security of the country in which he is, or who, having been convicted by
a final judgment of a particularly serious crime, constitutes a danger to the
community of that country.

I dare say that sexual assault qualifies.

[Thanas]

It does not, not with the punishment applied to it in German law, where it may even be regarded as a misdemeanor.

[Flagg]

It does not, not with the punishment applied to it in German law, where it may even be regarded as a misdemeanor.

That's becoming the case in many countries, states, and localities, even in the US where, like homicide, there are "degrees" of sexual assault with some being misdemeanors. For instance, unwanted fondling of the breasts or buttocks is considered "sexual assault" in many jurisdictions, but it may be classified as a misdemeanor even though a brutal rape is also "sexual assault", but you'll always have a "first, second, third degree, and etc.

[cosmicalstorm]

I've been seeing too many stories like this one recently, not that I believe every migrant wants to shit in the childrens pool:

Migrants have been banned from a historic swimming bath in Germany after a gang of men were caught on camera masturbating in a hot tub and sexually assaulting women.

Several other men were seen 'emptying their bowels' in the children's end of the main swimming pool at the Johannisbad baths in Zwickau, Saxony.

Management at the historic baths are reportedly no longer allowing migrants into the facilities following the allegations while some local swimmers have stayed away after the incidents

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... baths.html

[the atom]

Is there any corroboration on this from real news?

[ray245]

Is there any corroboration on this from real news?

Even though this is from the Daily Mail, I do recall this appearing in some German media as well.

[Simon_Jester]

The first set of cases are probably coming from men who simply have no clue how to behave in the context of Western sexual mores. Who see no practical difference between sitting around in bathing suits in public on the one hand, and having sex in public on the other. So they just assume they're in a place of complete sexual license where they can blow off the built-up steam of a lifetime of repression in whatever manner they please, surrounded by attractive women... and they can't really grasp the idea that visibly attractive women are NOT around to please them.

Of course, I'd bet on the Daily Mail or other such sources to exaggerate things, but it really shouldn't surprise anyone that a population of hundreds of thousands of refugees contains thousands of poorly adjusted perverts with no self-control. That's a staggering total number but it's only 1% or so of the total.

[Edi]

There's a BBC article on how Finland is dealing with the issue of teaching immgrants how to behave.

[Dominus Atheos]

Is there any corroboration on this from real news?

No. Original source is the german tabloid BILD quoting parts of an office memo that was allegedly "leaked" to them and (from what I can tell from google translate) was talking about small children defecating in the kiddie pool.

Similarly, reads the memorandum of "Glück-Auf-covered swimming pool" in the letter from the town clerk's office manager: A group of "young, unaccompanied women and children with caregivers" have visited on 9 January the hall. Since none could swim, "she took advantage of the training pool."

"The users of this contaminated pool by there got rid of one's own intestinal contents. Native people have immediately leave the bathroom. "

[cosmicalstorm]

The part about defecating in public pools seemed weird even by these standards. Maybe it's flawed reporting, lots of rumors going around.

[The Romulan Republic]

The first set of cases are probably coming from men who simply have no clue how to behave in the context of Western sexual mores. Who see no practical difference between sitting around in bathing suits in public on the one hand, and having sex in public on the other. So they just assume they're in a place of complete sexual license where they can blow off the built-up steam of a lifetime of repression in whatever manner they please, surrounded by attractive women... and they can't really grasp the idea that visibly attractive women are NOT around to please them.

Of course, I'd bet on the Daily Mail or other such sources to exaggerate things, but it really shouldn't surprise anyone that a population of hundreds of thousands of refugees contains thousands of poorly adjusted perverts with no self-control. That's a staggering total number but it's only 1% or so of the total.

How many refugees does Germany alone have? About 1 million?

1% of that is 10,000 rapists. And hell, 1% would probably be lower than the rate of rapists in the general populace.

Of course, those with an inclination to see refugees as an invading, barbaric, predatory horde will focus on those thousands or tens of thousands of rapists, and not the hundreds of thousands of non-rapists, or the rapists in the "native" population.

[Grumman]

The first set of cases are probably coming from men who simply have no clue how to behave in the context of Western sexual mores. Who see no practical difference between sitting around in bathing suits in public on the one hand, and having sex in public on the other. So they just assume they're in a place of complete sexual license where they can blow off the built-up steam of a lifetime of repression in whatever manner they please, surrounded by attractive women... and they can't really grasp the idea that visibly attractive women are NOT around to please them.

Of course, I'd bet on the Daily Mail or other such sources to exaggerate things, but it really shouldn't surprise anyone that a population of hundreds of thousands of refugees contains thousands of poorly adjusted perverts with no self-control. That's a staggering total number but it's only 1% or so of the total.

No, it's not surprising that there are thousands of poorly adjusted perverts with no self-control. But poorly adjusted perverts with no self-control are half the reason ISIL exists (the other half being lunatics who think apostates and idolators need killing), and not weeding them out is like accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees from Nazi Germany and not realising you needed to reject everyone who was inclined to commit hate crimes against Jews and gays.

[Ralin]

The part about defecating in public pools seemed weird even by these standards. Maybe it's flawed reporting, lots of rumors going around.

Honestly I'm more inclined to believe this story than most of the things you post. Conceptions of sanitation and the importance thereof vary widely. A few years ago there was an article in a Hong Kong newspaper about two mainland tourists who let their kid crap on the floor of a subway car. When they were kicked off the parents were offended, because they said they put some paper under the kid so they didn't see what the problem was.

Straight up crapping on the street is not at all uncommon in mainland China, and not just in hick places out in the sticks (I've seen that exact scenario happen on the sidewalk in Beijing), so it wasn't the worst argument. Though that's still a few notches beyond normal.

I have no idea whether there's anything analogous in the customs of any of the areas where the refugees come from, but yeah. Things like that happen.

[Simon_Jester]

No, it's not surprising that there are thousands of poorly adjusted perverts with no self-control. But poorly adjusted perverts with no self-control are half the reason ISIL exists (the other half being lunatics who think apostates and idolators need killing), and not weeding them out is like accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees from Nazi Germany and not realising you needed to reject everyone who was inclined to commit hate crimes against Jews and gays.

As a practical matter, the sheer number of refugees makes it impossible for most European countries to interview them all and somehow learn about their attitudes toward sexuality, public sanitation, and the like. Interviewing a million people in depth takes a lot of time and resources, and requires that you hold all of them in facilities where their physical survival needs are taken care of, because otherwise they'll just walk away before you get a chance to interview them.

European countries don't seem to have the logistical means to do that. Not when they refugees are prepared to just ignore regulations and move on because they don't expect to be physically fed and sheltered if they stay in one place. Or if they expect to be deported back to the war zone they just left.

Before the recent wars in the Middle East, facilities on this scale were not necessary, and they weren't built up during the past few years, so they do not exist now.

Perhaps it would have been prudent to react to the chaos in Syria and elsewhere by creating an infrastructure for dealing with truly massive numbers of refugees- I don't know.

[Thanas]

I am going to lock this thread. Discussion on the cologne cases has been exhausted and we already got a refugee crisis thread, so please continue to debate there.

If anybody has info pertaining to the cologne cases especially PM me and I will unlock this thread again.