Good=boring? I don't think so.

OT: anything goes!

Moderator: Edi

Adam Reynolds
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2354
Joined: 2004-03-27 04:51am

Re: Good=boring? I don't think so.

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Lord Revan wrote:Though you want to avoid the pitfall of making the villain always lie, a good writer uses truths, half-truths and outright lies to his/her advantage.
That was something that was done nicely in the SW prequels with Palpatine. All of his manipulations involving Anakin relied on Palpatine telling the part of the truth that helped him while concealing that which did not.
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12236
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Good=boring? I don't think so.

Post by Lord Revan »

Adam Reynolds wrote:
Lord Revan wrote:Though you want to avoid the pitfall of making the villain always lie, a good writer uses truths, half-truths and outright lies to his/her advantage.
That was something that was done nicely in the SW prequels with Palpatine. All of his manipulations involving Anakin relied on Palpatine telling the part of the truth that helped him while concealing that which did not.
It helped that Palpatine had a true goal within the story and the intention to achive that goal, instead of having a stated goal but really just picking "what's the most evil action I can do here" and doing that.

because of that Palpatine is capable of telling the truth or doing "good" things if doing so will serve his goals, thus making him a stronger character and more instresting as a villain.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Zeropoint
Jedi Knight
Posts: 581
Joined: 2013-09-14 01:49am

Re: Good=boring? I don't think so.

Post by Zeropoint »

A "Dark Kantian" who is compelled to "do evil, regardless of its utility"--and is self-aware enough to struggle with the consequences and resent the compulsion--could be the basis of an interesting tragic villain.
I'm a cis-het white male, and I oppose racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. I support treating all humans equally.

When fascism came to America, it was wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

That which will not bend must break and that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12236
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Good=boring? I don't think so.

Post by Lord Revan »

Zeropoint wrote:A "Dark Kantian" who is compelled to "do evil, regardless of its utility"--and is self-aware enough to struggle with the consequences and resent the compulsion--could be the basis of an interesting tragic villain.
If done well sure, done poorly it will just seem like a blatant handwave to make a shallow character "deep".

On the flip side, you can have the naive too trusting hero, but a one who is aware of this failing and trying to correct it without becoming a total cynic that can also be a basis for an intresting character if done well.

In the matter it doesn't matter if the character is good or bad, just how well it's writen.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Zeropoint
Jedi Knight
Posts: 581
Joined: 2013-09-14 01:49am

Re: Good=boring? I don't think so.

Post by Zeropoint »

It all comes down to that, doesn't it? A writer could take the best concept ever and ruin it with crappy writing, or the dumbest concept ever and redeem it with good writing.
I'm a cis-het white male, and I oppose racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. I support treating all humans equally.

When fascism came to America, it was wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.

That which will not bend must break and that which can be destroyed by truth should never be spared its demise.
User avatar
Lord Revan
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 12236
Joined: 2004-05-20 02:23pm
Location: Zone:classified

Re: Good=boring? I don't think so.

Post by Lord Revan »

Zeropoint wrote:It all comes down to that, doesn't it? A writer could take the best concept ever and ruin it with crappy writing, or the dumbest concept ever and redeem it with good writing.
to a degree yes, there's some concepts that are simply unsalvageble and not even the best writers in the universe could make them good, though such cases are quite rare and a good writers generally know not use them at all. That said it's always possible to ruin a good idea with bad execution as it's impossible to make a foolproof concept (fools are far too inventive for that to work).

But in the end it all boils down to the execution be it writing, acting or the artwork (depending on the medium), good execution can elevate a weak concept into something better then it seems at first glance and poor execution can ruin even a strong concept.
I may be an idiot, but I'm a tolerated idiot
"I think you completely missed the point of sigs. They're supposed to be completely homegrown in the fertile hydroponics lab of your mind, dried in your closet, rolled, and smoked...
Oh wait, that's marijuana..."Einhander Sn0m4n
User avatar
Zixinus
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 6663
Joined: 2007-06-19 12:48pm
Location: In Seth the Blitzspear
Contact:

Re: Good=boring? I don't think so.

Post by Zixinus »

Zeropoint wrote:It all comes down to that, doesn't it? A writer could take the best concept ever and ruin it with crappy writing, or the dumbest concept ever and redeem it with good writing.
And what makes a good writer is good craft and able to use it appropriately. One such thing is the ability to tell when something is a bad idea or not, as well as knowing how to exploit an idea (such as making a character dark and broody). Storytelling isn't a complete mystery, there is a lot stuff we know how to do from experience and analysis that exists pretty much since humankind tells stories.
Credo!
Chat with me on Skype if you want to talk about writing, ideas or if you want a test-reader! PM for address.
Post Reply