Star Wars: Rebels

[Thanas]

Also, how in hell did they get the DS from Episode III to Geonosis?

Presumably, the Empire didn't move it all since the Geonosians were the ones who were originally building it. That scene in ROTS must have taken place somewhere in orbit over Geonosis and the planet itself was simply out of frame.

No, iirc we see a full pan in the movie and there is no planet anywhere.

[Galvatron]

Also, how in hell did they get the DS from Episode III to Geonosis?

Presumably, the Empire didn't move it all since the Geonosians were the ones who were originally building it. That scene in ROTS must have taken place somewhere in orbit over Geonosis and the planet itself was simply out of frame.

No, iirc we see a full pan in the movie and there is no planet anywhere.

You recall incorrectly. These are the only scenes shown during that sequence and there was was no pan.

[Thanas]

Go watch the scene.
https://youtu.be/K8J2l0XQG0g?t=59

We get a slightly top view, angled. Then we get a view out of the bridge window. Neither surroundings look anything like geneosis and the space surrounding it. If they approached with the planet "underneath" them so to speak - and the proximity to the DS - it would be shown in the top view. This screams deep space, not geneosis, which has never been depicted like that.

[Galvatron]

So it could have been in a high orbit, like the distance between Earth and the Moon.



Are you really so hard-headed as to rule out the possibility that it was simply out of frame?

[Dartzap]

Spoiler

It appears we may be getting a Revan episode, as the gang are headed to Malachor. It would certainly underline Yoda's point about how Jedi choosing to fight can lead to some epic backfiring on the Jedi code

Also, the High Inquisitor was once a temple guardian, which I think DashStar predicted.

I'm guessing Malachor is where 'Old Master' Maul has set up shop,

[Crazedwraith]

Wasn't Malachor the Exile's turf not Revan's?

[Dartzap]

Spoiler

Wasn't Malachor the Exile's turf not Revan's?

Both. Revan wiped out half his own fleet to lure the Mandalorians fleet into the trap, Meetra was in charge of the Macguffin.

[RogueIce]

Oh great. KOTOR fanboys going "IT'S ALL CANON!!!!" in 3...2...1...

[Lord Revan]

Tbh if someone put a gun to my face and said I must make one part of SW legendaries canon (and I was given the power to do so obviously) KOTOR series wouldn't be a bad choice. Granted they'll probably go for the broad strokes approach "there's a bit of thruth in every legend" after all.

[Galvatron]

I'm sure EA has been begging Lucasfilm to show the fanbase that their very expensive, still-being-actively-developed MMORPG remains relevant to those of us who don't want to waste time on something that's not canon any more. I just hope we get remakes of the first two games.

[SCRawl]

It makes zero sense to assemble a secret weapon like the Death Star near a planet that someone, anyone, might visit. With hyperspace being what it is, i.e. you can go anywhere in the galaxy with ludicrous speed, the only place to do something on that scale in secret is deep space, somewhere that isn't on any maps. It's always possible for someone to just stop there, but it's so improbable as to make no odds. (I may be using that expression imperfectly, but it's how Douglas Adams might have put it.)

Perhaps some components were manufactured at Geonosis and transported to the secret assembly area. Or yeah, maybe the show-runners decided to make Geonosis the assembly area, but that doesn't mean that it makes any sense.

[Galvatron]

It makes zero sense to assemble a secret weapon like the Death Star near a planet that someone, anyone, might visit.

How do you figure that Geonosis is any less suitable than Despayre or Endor?

[SCRawl]

It makes zero sense to assemble a secret weapon like the Death Star near a planet that someone, anyone, might visit.

How do you figure that Geonosis is any less suitable than Despayre or Endor?

One major difference is that there were space-faring species living on Geonosis, whereas Endor was inhabited only by primitives -- not a popular destination at all, one would think -- and Despayre (according to the article at the provided link) was inhabited only by the captives placed there by Imperial forces.

I stand by my assertion that deep space would serve better than any of these other locations.

[Lord Revan]

we know that Geonosians are no more and it wouldn't be hard for the empire to quarantine Geonosis so that anyone who enters the system will be arrested for simple entering the system.

[SCRawl]

we know that Geonosians are no more and it wouldn't be hard for the empire to quarantine Geonosis so that anyone who enters the system will be arrested for simple entering the system.

Well, yes, they're all dead now. Were they killed off before or after the Death Star (or its predecessor(?)) was moved? Could a third party who was ignorant of the Geonisians' demise not arrive at the system, see a small Imperial fleet (plus a moon-sized battle station), and skedaddle into hyperspace before being arrested? Is that not a risk too high to be situating superweapon construction in a known system?

Edit: It's possible that I'm being too hasty in my analysis. If there is a benefit to zero-gravity construction near a planetary system with the Empire's technology and resources, then it is not clear to me, but I'd be glad to hear about it. The situation on Endor, for example, was set up to use the moon as a location to set up the shield generator to protect the DS2. I don't know if something similar was set up when the DS1 was being constructed, but I suppose if that's the only way you can protect it from external attack (other than secrecy) while it's under construction then it's of value.

[Galvatron]

we know that Geonosians are no more and it wouldn't be hard for the empire to quarantine Geonosis so that anyone who enters the system will be arrested for simple entering the system.

That's what I was thinking. The fleet could have sentries placed near the so-called hyperspace lanes entering the Geonosis system and either capture, destroy or warn off any interlopers.

I just don't understand some of these silly reasons why the Death Star can't or shouldn't have been constructed there, and I'm THE prequel hater here. And, yes, I'm talking about this...

If they approached with the planet "underneath" them so to speak - and the proximity to the DS - it would be shown in the top view. This screams deep space, not geneosis, which has never been depicted like that.

Wanna see the intro shot of Geonosis from AOTC?



Can someone give me a good reason that ISN'T total horseshit as to why Geonosis couldn't have been just out of frame below the port bow of that Venator in ROTS?

[SCRawl]

There is a line in that page on Despayre which is of interest:

According to Leland Chee, early drafts of Revenge of the Sith had the Death Star being built over a planet; had this appeared in the final draft, the world would have been identified as Despayre.

My thinking, when I read this, is that the DS was not being built over a planet; if it were, then there would have been a planet in the shot.

Of course, if it's meant to be a retcon, then yes, the fact that we don't see all the angles at the end of ROTS means that there could be a planet hiding just out of the shot. But it's far more likely that there isn't a planet there, since they would have shown the planet. Then again, something is throwing light on the DS under construction. I don't see any enormous work lights doing that, so it's possible that it's near a star, which means that it could also be near a planet, though not necessarily in orbit of one.

[Galvatron]

Oh, for Christ's sake...

Just to nail this coffin shut, the novel Tarkin made it clear over a year ago that Geonosis was the Death Star's construction site.

Coreward from Sentinel in the direction of the planet Pii, Rampart was a marshaling depot for supply ships bound for Geonosis, where the deep-space weapon was under construction.

Luceno, James (2014-11-04). Tarkin: Star Wars (p. 10). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Harassment of Imperial installations by pirates and malcontents was nothing new, but in almost all cases the assaults had been hit-and-run sorties, and none had taken place so close to heavily defended Geonosis.

Luceno, James (2014-11-04). Tarkin: Star Wars (p. 25). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Once everyone in the galaxy grasped the weapon’s capabilities, once the fear of Imperial reprisal took hold, discontent would cease to be a problem. But just now— and notwithstanding the covert nature of the Geonosis project— the Imperial Security Bureau and Naval Intelligence were continually trying to quash rumors and prevent information leaks. In the three years Tarkin had been commanding Sentinel and hundreds of nearby supply and sentry outposts, as well as administering a vast slice of the Outer Rim, no group had been successful in penetrating Geonosis space.

Luceno, James (2014-11-04). Tarkin: Star Wars (p. 26). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

But no one outside the Emperor knew the full history of the moonlet-sized project. Some claimed that it had begun as a Separatist weapon designed by Geonosian Archduke Poggle the Lesser’s hive colony for Count Dooku and the Confederacy of Independent Systems. But if that was the case, the plans had to have somehow fallen into Republic hands before the Clone Wars ended, because the weapon’s spherical shell and laser-focusing dish were already in the works by the time Tarkin first set eyes on it following his promotion to the rank of Moff— escorted to Geonosis in utmost secrecy by the Emperor himself.

Luceno, James (2014-11-04). Tarkin: Star Wars (p. 27). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

The epicenter of a bustling throng of construction droids, supply ships, and cargo carriers, safeguarded by four Star Destroyers and twice as many frigates, the deep-space mobile battle station hovered in fixed orbit above secluded and forbidding Geonosis. When viewed from mid-system or from even as close as the asteroid belt that further isolated the planet from celestial interchange, one could be fooled into believing that the irradiated world had added another small moon to its collection.

Luceno, James (2014-11-04). Tarkin: Star Wars (p. 257). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

And yes, Tarkin is part of the new EU. It's canon.

[SCRawl]

^ That does seem to be fairly definitive. I haven't read this book; I was only discussing the on-screen canon from Rebels and ROTS, and the logic of conducting secret construction near an (until recently) inhabited planet.

This does seem to me to be a retcon, though; if they wanted the construction to have been near Geonosis at the end of ROTS, then the planet would have been in the shot.

One bit from the last quote is interesting: it describes Geonosis as an "...irradiated world". Is this ever discussed in any greater detail? I suppose this means that the Imperials must have sterilized the planet from orbit between the end of AOTC and the scene from Tarkin described in the quote.

[Elheru Aran]

One bit from the last quote is interesting: it describes Geonosis as an "...irradiated world". Is this ever discussed in any greater detail? I suppose this means that the Imperials must have sterilized the planet from orbit between the end of AOTC and the scene from Tarkin described in the quote.

This was confirmed in a recent issue of the ongoing Darth Vader series. Vader and some of his hench-persons (he's undertaking an investigation into something or other shortly after completing the Jedi Purge) land on Geonosis, and there's dead bugs and collapsed hives all over the place. No mention of radiation from what I recall, but there might have been something.

[Galvatron]

One bit from the last quote is interesting: it describes Geonosis as an "...irradiated world". Is this ever discussed in any greater detail? I suppose this means that the Imperials must have sterilized the planet from orbit between the end of AOTC and the scene from Tarkin described in the quote.

I do believe the new comics pretty definitively confirmed the fate of the Geonosians.

No clue when it happened, although given how Vader massacred the separatist leaders on Mustafar, it wouldn't surprise me if their homeworlds were similarly punished by the Empire after the war.

It would be especially dickish if Geonosis actually surrendered in good faith and lowered their planetary shield (yes, I'm presuming they had one) only to have the Imperial fleet BDZ the shit out of the surface.

[Rogue 9]

Well, it's official; Kanan can't live past the beginning of Return of the Jedi.
Spoiler

Yoda now definitively knows of Kanan's continued adherence to the ways of the Jedi, and through the Temple's Force visions made him a Knight. So assuming that Yoda was sticking to "certain point of view" rather than bald-faced lies, "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be," means that Yoda has to at least believe that Kanan Jarrus is dead and Ezra is either also dead or turned from the ways of the Jedi by the time he's on his deathbed.

[SCRawl]

One bit from the last quote is interesting: it describes Geonosis as an "...irradiated world". Is this ever discussed in any greater detail? I suppose this means that the Imperials must have sterilized the planet from orbit between the end of AOTC and the scene from Tarkin described in the quote.

I do believe the new comics pretty definitively confirmed the fate of the Geonosians.

No clue when it happened, although given how Vader massacred the separatist leaders on Mustafar, it wouldn't surprise me if their homeworlds were similarly punished by the Empire after the war.

It would be especially dickish if Geonosis actually surrendered in good faith and lowered their planetary shield (yes, I'm presuming they had one) only to have the Imperial fleet BDZ the shit out of the surface.

I've only been following the thread for the last couple of days, since I got caught up with the series. I actually went back and watched the Clone Wars series first, before watching Rebels. I should have been that thorough with this thread as well, so as to avoid missing the answer which was only a few pages back.

[Galvatron]

The retcon I find interesting is that Darth Maul didn't adopt some ancient and forgotten style of lightsaber combat after all. He simply trained himself up to use the dual-bladed version of the typical, contemporary Jedi temple guard.

Granted, his acrobatic fighting technique may have differed from that of a temple guard, but there was nothing atypical or novel about his lightsaber so it's no wonder that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had no noticeable reaction to seeing it.

[NecronLord]

Qui-Gon's only real remark was that "Whoever or whatever he was, he was trained in the Jedi arts." Which really made it sound like what Maul was doing was a jedi thing.