Lucifer [Fox, spoilers]

[LadyTevar]

I'm calling it, she tips Amenandiel to Chloe. Then the Devil gets his wings back in a major beatdown.

[biostem]

I'm calling it, she tips Amenandiel to Chloe. Then the Devil gets his wings back in a major beatdown.

Or... Maze goes to take out Chloe in order to "protect" Lucifer from becoming mortal, and he either agrees to return to save her, or perhaps it turns out she is now kind of immortal, as a result of whatever Lucifer did previously to save her form that gunshot.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm calling it, she tips Amenandiel to Chloe. Then the Devil gets his wings back in a major beatdown.

Or... Maze goes to take out Chloe in order to "protect" Lucifer from becoming mortal, and he either agrees to return to save her, or perhaps it turns out she is now kind of immortal, as a result of whatever Lucifer did previously to save her form that gunshot.

I didn't see the episode in question, so I'm not sure this holds up, but here's a thought:

What if Lucifer somehow inadvertently gave some of his power to her at that time, and that's why he can't influence her and isn't immune to injury from her?

[biostem]

I'm calling it, she tips Amenandiel to Chloe. Then the Devil gets his wings back in a major beatdown.

Or... Maze goes to take out Chloe in order to "protect" Lucifer from becoming mortal, and he either agrees to return to save her, or perhaps it turns out she is now kind of immortal, as a result of whatever Lucifer did previously to save her form that gunshot.

I didn't see the episode in question, so I'm not sure this holds up, but here's a thought:

What if Lucifer somehow inadvertently gave some of his power to her at that time, and that's why he can't influence her and isn't immune to injury from her?

Well, he couldn't influence her even before that incident. I'm more specifically referring to after she got shot, Lucifer saved her life, then Chloe shot Lucifer to "test" his claim that he's impervious. What remains to be seen is whether he was injured because *she* shot him, or whether he's now vulnerable to all sources...

[The Romulan Republic]

Missed last night's episode.

Wondering if Chloe suffered death by Maz yet.

Yeah, yeah, I know. They won't kill the female lead mid-season. This isn't a Joss Whedon show.

[General Zod]

Or... Maze goes to take out Chloe in order to "protect" Lucifer from becoming mortal, and he either agrees to return to save her, or perhaps it turns out she is now kind of immortal, as a result of whatever Lucifer did previously to save her form that gunshot.

I didn't see the episode in question, so I'm not sure this holds up, but here's a thought:

What if Lucifer somehow inadvertently gave some of his power to her at that time, and that's why he can't influence her and isn't immune to injury from her?

Well, he couldn't influence her even before that incident. I'm more specifically referring to after she got shot, Lucifer saved her life, then Chloe shot Lucifer to "test" his claim that he's impervious. What remains to be seen is whether he was injured because *she* shot him, or whether he's now vulnerable to all sources...

I'm betting on some sort of supernatural origins for Chloe, either she's part angel or some angel/demon hybrid and they're going the Nephilim route.

[The Romulan Republic]

Maybe.

Could also explain how she'll survive having Maz's hostility directed at her.

[Tsyroc]

I really enjoyed the most recent episode but it was (to me) different than previous episodes I've liked.

They made good use of all the main characters. The main humor bits came from someplace other than Lucifer commenting.

They really made good use of Lucifer seeing the shrink. Hurt/angry Lucifer is interesting.

Lucifer is a bad influence on Trixie.

None of the music really stood out to me this episode but it was nice that they had Lucifer performing at his piano bar even if I didn't care for the song.

[The Romulan Republic]

I want to see Chloe's reaction when she realizes her kid is friends with Satan.

[biostem]

Do you think that Trixie lying about the cake has anything to do with her being susceptible to Lucifer's influence, (unlike Chloe), or just her being young & impressionable?

[Tsyroc]

Do you think that Trixie lying about the cake has anything to do with her being susceptible to Lucifer's influence, (unlike Chloe), or just her being young & impressionable?

For now, I think it's because she's young and impressionable and likes Lucifer. Although, it would be interesting if her liking him is because of his influence. He generally avoids children so he might not be aware that he affects them.

Someone on IMDB pointed out that Trixie has a sign on her bedroom door that says "No boys allowed, except for Dad and Lucifer". If that is so she must really like him.

Trixie being interrogated by her cop parents about the cake was pretty funny.

[Elheru Aran]

Regarding Chloe, I haven't followed the show (only watched part of the first episode), but here's a fairly major plot point from the original comics:
Spoiler

Elaine Belloc, a major character in the comics, is a child with angelic genes thanks to a decades-long experiment by a fallen angel using a captive Michael Demiurgos. This permits her to eventually assume the powers of Creation, make her own universe, and in time she takes over the role of God himself.

While it would be extremely controversial-- to say the least-- from talk here I'm thinking they may follow that route for Chloe, or some modification thereof.

[General Zod]

Regarding Chloe, I haven't followed the show (only watched part of the first episode), but here's a fairly major plot point from the original comics:
Spoiler

Elaine Belloc, a major character in the comics, is a child with angelic genes thanks to a decades-long experiment by a fallen angel using a captive Michael Demiurgos. This permits her to eventually assume the powers of Creation, make her own universe, and in time she takes over the role of God himself.

While it would be extremely controversial-- to say the least-- from talk here I'm thinking they may follow that route for Chloe, or some modification thereof.

That would explain what happened with the goods in Lucifer's container.

[LadyTevar]

The goods in Lucifer's container I called as soon as we knew it was his. He'd have to put them somewhere, and he'd not want to see them every day. The Russian Dolls were a nice touch.

But, I'll totally admit that I didn't think they'd be so .... pristine.

[Tsyroc]

The goods in Lucifer's container I called as soon as we knew it was his. He'd have to put them somewhere, and he'd not want to see them every day. The Russian Dolls were a nice touch.

But, I'll totally admit that I didn't think they'd be so .... pristine.

I wasn't sure where they would go with his wings. In the comics they slowly turned back to white after they were removed from his body. I've never been entirely sure why he had them cut off in the first place, unless it was necessary for him to be able to leave Hell and stay on Earth for an extended amount of time? Supposedly he needs them to be back at full power, so I have been assuming that not having them attached might be why he could possibly be losing power/turning moral and appeared to be at least somewhat afraid when Amandiel held his feathers to his throat in one of the first couple of episodes. Speaking of that, Anandiel's wings had a hint of "bat wing" to them with the way the bend came to a bit of a point. He might want to be careful in his actions or he really might end up taking over Lucifer's old gig.

The previews for Monday's episode sure look entertaining and interesting. They also appear to contradict a lot of the theories people have about who took Lucifer's wings.

[The Romulan Republic]

Aside from the return of the truly obnoxious "atheists are evil" subtext (if you can even call it subtext), tonight's episode was hands down the best episode of the show that I've seen. If only they can maintain that level of quality consistently.

Amenadial's a real asshole, especially for an angel, but their is a possible explanation given for that- Spoiler

he's taken over Lucifer's job, and he hates it.

I was surprised that Spoiler

Lucifer burned his wings. I thought that it would be a trick to throw off Amenadial, but it looks like he really went through with it.

I wonder what the long-term implications of that are.

Also, I figured Spoiler

Amenadial was going to try to just kill him at the end to send him back to hell, now that he knows Lucifer can be killed.

I'm surprised that he didn't.

A couple points at the end that were ambiguous-

1. What was that with Spoiler

Maz keeping the feather?

2. Why did Spoiler

Amenadial save the dying cop? Is he somehow involved in the crooked police plot? Seems a bit petty for an angel.

[The Romulan Republic]

Reposting without spoiler tags because I see they still don't work properly and its too late to edit it.

Aside from the return of the truly obnoxious "atheists are evil" subtext (if you can even call it subtext), tonight's episode was hands down the best episode of the show that I've seen. If only they can maintain that level of quality consistently.

Amenadial's a real asshole, especially for an angel, but their is a possible explanation given for that- he's taken over Lucifer's job, and he hates it.

I was surprised that Lucifer burned his wings. I thought that it would be a trick to throw off Amenadial, but it looks like he really went through with it. I wonder what the long-term implications of that are.

Also, I figured Amenadial was going to try to just kill him at the end to send him back to hell, now that he knows Lucifer can be killed. I'm surprised that he didn't.

A couple points at the end that were ambiguous-

1. What was that with Maz keeping the feather?
2. Why did Amenadial save the dying cop? Is he somehow involved in the crooked police plot? Seems a bit petty for an angel.

[Kojiro]

Aside from the return of the truly obnoxious "atheists are evil" subtext

As an atheist, I'm prepared to make that a concession to the setting. In such a universe theists are right- there is a God and presumably atheists are actually in some way defective for not noticing the Truth. It's not a flattering depiction by any stretch but when you're wrong, you're wrong.

Amenadial's a real asshole, especially for an angel, but their is a possible explanation given for that- he's taken over Lucifer's job, and he hates it.

He makes a comment to Lucifer saying 'You wanted free will' as if to imply previously he did not have it. It wouldn't surprise me if angels are incapable or banned from performing certain tasks or actions, in effect being mostly free but not entirely so.

I was surprised that Lucifer burned his wings. I thought that it would be a trick to throw off Amenadial, but it looks like he really went through with it. I wonder what the long-term implications of that are.

I think so long as that feather exists, the wings can be reconstituted. Whatever divine essence the wings held, that feather likely still retains it. Maybe not of course. I presume that Maz took the feather when she removed his wings, as a keepsake.

Also, I figured Amenadial was going to try to just kill him at the end to send him back to hell, now that he knows Lucifer can be killed. I'm surprised that he didn't.

I think there was something in the first episode that Lucifer mentioned it would 'upset dad' if Lucifer was harmed. And Amenadial made the comment 'I just have to wait for some thug...' implying that he could not directly do it himself. This might play into the 'not quite free will' aspect- perhaps he simply can't kill Lucifer (or doesn't want to risk God's wrath, which seems fair). But we know he can hurt Lucifer, so the functional ability to kill seems likely- something is restraining him.

A couple points at the end that were ambiguous-

1. What was that with Maz keeping the feather?

I'd wager purely sentimental reasons, since she's clearly devoted to him beyond simple loyalty.

2. Why did Amenadial save the dying cop? Is he somehow involved in the crooked police plot? Seems a bit petty for an angel.

My theory is that Amenadial is slipping, as Lucifer taunted. I assume that like many supernatural settings, beings are prohibited from openly revealing themselves to the public. Part of this I'd wager is that angels don't sit around hospitals and other places hand waving away otherwise fatal medical conditions- even though it's clearly within their power. I think perhaps Amenadial was showing us the first little sign of his personal rebellion.

[The Romulan Republic]

It could be interesting if Amenadial ends up becoming the new Devil. Basically going in the opposite direction from Lucifer. That seems to be where they're headed.

[Kojiro]

Well depending on how you define 'devil' he sort of is- if by devil you mean 'angel currently in charge of Hell'. I mean, if you're suffering what I assume is horrible torment, does it really matter to you if the winged guy who keeps throwing you back in the pit is black or white? But I think it's more likely Amenadiel is just a pawn in God's plan, as is Lucifer.

I'm starting to be curious what other powers Lucifer has. It would seem he is diminished in other ways as he lacks the healing ability and time slow. Though perhaps those powers are as unique to Amenadial as the 'What do you want?' power is to Lucifer?

[The Romulan Republic]

What are the established powers so far?

For Lucifer, I've got superhuman durability (to the point that bullets are basically a mild irritation) and strength (tossing a guy through a window one-handed), immortality, the wings (not currently in use, and does that mean he could fly when he had them on?), some sort of mental influence (used when persuading people to give him information), and his demonic appearance/eyes he occasionally uses to terrify people.

Amenadial apparently has the wings, immortality, and durability (he was completely unconcerned about guns), as well as time slowing and healing.

Maz, I've just got the ability to conceal her demonic appearance, and probably some superhuman strength, given how easily she held that guy underwater and her fight scene a couple episodes ago. I'm assuming immortality as well.

[Elheru Aran]

Regarding the feathers:
Spoiler

In the comics, a demigod managed to injure Lucifer badly by basically voodoo tricks involving feathers from his wings. Of course, it sounds like they're already departing quite a bit from the comics, so...

[biostem]

Depictions of the Abrahamic god are always hard to get your head around, when depicted in shows like this; If you assume god is all-knowing, all-powerful, and directly and frequently interferes in the material plane, then everything happens according to his design, and Amendial being angry toward Lucifer is just part of his plan. If, however, it takes a more deistic approach, and god basically created the universe, the various choruses of angels, and man, but is otherwise hands-off, then things get a lot more interesting.

[Kojiro]

My memory is fuzzy because it's been many years since I read it but there's an exchange between Lucifer and Amenadial in the comics. Amendaial is coming to Lucifer to ask for help, and tells him 'God says you will name your price' to which Lucifer says 'Wait- he said I could name my price or I would name it?'. He's told he will name it, to which Lucifer says something like 'well I guess you've brought it along' which of course, he had. I'm probably remembering it wrong but the basic gist was that however clever Lucifer was- and he is very clever- God is always a step ahead. Even in this case where his price was essentially to become free of God.

Whether or not we're dealing with that kind of 'Just as I planned it' God or not is unknown, but I'd almost bet we are. The convenience for the writer must be incredible when you can literally explain something as 'God's plan' and it fits with the comic depiction.

One thing of note- thus far they've been incredibly vague about God. We can draw some implications- there is a Hell and God does send people there (which is enough to destroy any claim of morality as far as I'm concerned) but beyond that... I mean they're making a show called Lucifer where the Devil isn't bad guy. You'd think they wouldn't shy away from criticism that would invariably come up given the nature of the characters.

[LadyTevar]

As for "Devil isn't the bad guy", there's a LOT of grey there. We've seen him casually strangle, drown, or otherwise torture people whenever he feels the need. He is very much into punishing the Guilty, with the punishments matching or exceeding the crime as the case may be. Up until he met Chloe, he was a regular nymphomaniac. But, as he ranted at his shrink, he is NOT the source of Human Evil. The Devil does NOT make you do shit, you do it all by yourselves!
So.... Grey Area. Is he Bad for punishing people (sometimes pre-emptively), or is he walking a thin line of Goodness?

But, then there's the fact that Lucifer did Fall... he all but spits it out while Amenandiel was beating him. "Do it DO IT... FALL, Like I DID!" We've still only got the old Myths to go by on the "why" he Fell (or chose to fall?), but he was really not happy about his new profession. I think part of the taunting was because he knew Amenandiel wasn't going to take that step. Not yet, at any rate. In the comic, the two angels who were made to guard Hell did take a path similar to what we're seeing with Amenandiel. One took the idea of punishment of crimes to the point where he did Fall, and his partner/brother/lover(?) watched helplessly because he couldn't stop it. IIRC, the new Fallen One didn't even realize he'd gone over the edge.

However .... I want someone to put out a screen cap of Lucifer, in front of the wings, declaring "They're My Wings!!" For an instant, we can see him as he was, Fully Angelic, Wings-spread... and it was only a INSTANT of screen time. And FoxTV online is frustrating my ability to stop the playback at JUST THAT MOMENT, dammit. I want to freeze that moment of pure Angelic Wrath, set it as my desktop. Because dammit when they wanted a "devilishly handsome" actor, they got one.