Captain America: Civil War thread

[The Romulan Republic]

I'm actually be really interested in what Thor and Hulk's view of the whole thing is.

Thor in particular has pretty much been where Cap. was with Bucky. Having someone close to him turn against you, and being torn between your love for them and your duty to fight them. Of course, Loki was a willing villain, while Bucky was not.

Hulk, on the other hand, might identify with Bucky's situation- a good man who is turned into a monster against his will.

Bruce has probably washed his hands of all of it. In Age of Ultron, he wanted to run away and never have to deal with saving the day again. He would also probably be against Tony's side, as Natasha is on there, and she both broke his heart and betrayed him. He's also seen Tony's mad science and his running into a course of action without informing others.

Umm... what the hell?

How did Natasha break Bruce's heart or betray him? As I recall, it was his decision to walk away from the relationship, not her's.

Is their something big from the movie I'm forgetting? Because that's not the vibe I got from his leaving.

I doubt Hulk would want to get involved in this shit, I agree, but he has personal attachments (and reasons for animosity) with people on both sides.

A similarity between Loki and Bucky is pretty thin. At all points, (unless the new Thor or Avengers movies reveals otherwise)Loki has pretty much signed up for what has happened to him, in a quest to make himself stronger, to have more power, or to be loved by his father. While he is sympathetic, he makes these choices rather selfishly. Bucky's biggest choice has been either keeping Steve safe, or giving him praise to make his fellow GIs stand behind him. Any evil actions he's done has been through severe brainwashing and torture, and was only able to break free due to his personal connection with his target. It's a difference between selfishness and selflessness.

That's more or less true. I'm thinking, though, in terms of similarities between Cap's relationship with Bucky and Thor's with Loki. And I think that Thor would empathize with what Cap. is going through here.

And if nothing else, loyalty to a comrade is clearly something Thor understands very well.

In regards to son of Odin, Thor's big arc has been focusing on the bigger picture, and what is best for the cosmos as a whole, rather than the individual. Whether the Sokovia Accords allows or is bad politicing is what would determine where Thor stands. I see him taking the role he did in Avengers 2, stopping the fight and pointing out that Thanos is out there.

To be honest, I don't recall any indication that Thor gives two shits about Earth politics in general. He'll help Earth out against an alien threat (especially when Asgard is partly to blame), and he cares about people on Earth, but I honestly wonder if he might see Earth's internal politics as beneath his involvement for the most part, or just none of this business.

It really says something about the state of things when Thor, god of thunder, is the best case for a mediator between the heroes.

[FaxModem1]

I'm actually be really interested in what Thor and Hulk's view of the whole thing is.

Thor in particular has pretty much been where Cap. was with Bucky. Having someone close to him turn against you, and being torn between your love for them and your duty to fight them. Of course, Loki was a willing villain, while Bucky was not.

Hulk, on the other hand, might identify with Bucky's situation- a good man who is turned into a monster against his will.

Bruce has probably washed his hands of all of it. In Age of Ultron, he wanted to run away and never have to deal with saving the day again. He would also probably be against Tony's side, as Natasha is on there, and she both broke his heart and betrayed him. He's also seen Tony's mad science and his running into a course of action without informing others.

Umm... what the hell?

How did Natasha break Bruce's heart or betray him? As I recall, it was his decision to walk away from the relationship, not her's.

Is their something big from the movie I'm forgetting? Because that's not the vibe I got from his leaving.

I doubt Hulk would want to get involved in this shit, I agree, but he has personal attachments (and reasons for animosity) with people on both sides

Remember the scene where Bruce turns into the Hulk? He asks Natasha for them to just leave, and enjoy life somewhere. Natasha says that it would be nice, but they need the other guy, and promptly kicks him off the cliff. That forced his hand and showed him that Natasha considered the mission more important than him.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I remember now.

You could quite reasonably call that a betrayal by Natasha, though I think Banner is smart enough that he probably understands the logic, even if he doesn't like it.

But I don't think it would drive him to side against Stark just because Natasha is with him. I didn't get the sense, from his departure scene, that he hated Natasha or wanted to hurt her. It was more like "I just can't take this shit any more." He didn't want to fight any more, knew he'd keep getting pulled in if he stayed, and so decided to leave.

[Civil War Man]

If the Hulk were involved, he'd side with Captain America for one very simple reason.

In one of the first trailers, we see William Hurt giving a copy of the Accords to Cap and telling him that the Avengers are vigilantes and need to be reined in. They didn't say outright who he was playing, but in the Ed Norton Hulk movie, he was Thunderbolt Ross, so that's probably who it is.

There is no chance in Hell that the Hulk would take Ross's side on something like this.

[Gaidin]

If the Hulk were involved, he'd side with Captain America for one very simple reason.

In one of the first trailers, we see William Hurt giving a copy of the Accords to Cap and telling him that the Avengers are vigilantes and need to be reined in. They didn't say outright who he was playing, but in the Ed Norton Hulk movie, he was Thunderbolt Ross, so that's probably who it is.

There is no chance in Hell that the Hulk would take Ross's side on something like this.

Ross has been appointed to Secretary of State at some point before this movie. So, it really is him.

[Alkaloid]

I'm legitimately curious about this one. With Age of Ultron I can understand, even though I enjoyed it in purely an escapist sense. That was a very packed film and it had scenes that just dragged (the Barton family home portion of things) or were odd (Thor going for some MCU-foreshadowing skinny dipping. Apparently it was going to be even stranger based on what I've read). But why do you think that Winter Soldier was dull?

Because it did almost nothing interesting. It was a poor mans copy of a formulaic spy thriller with a main character unsuited to the format, a plot that was barely internally coherent let alone made sense within the wider context of the MCU and it abandoned everything good about the characterisation of Captain America from the first movie (which was easily the least interesting of the phase 1 Marvel movies anyway) and randomly killed off/neutered a number of characters established in other films in the franchise in favour of "lol Nazis".

[Alkaloid]

Bruce has probably washed his hands of all of it. In Age of Ultron, he wanted to run away and never have to deal with saving the day again. He would also probably be against Tony's side, as Natasha is on there, and she both broke his heart and betrayed him. He's also seen Tony's mad science and his running into a course of action without informing others.

Yeah that doesn't really fly. I mean sure, Romanov kicked him into a bottomless pit but even the fucking Hulk, literally an uncontrolled manifestation of Banners anger didn't seem too phased about it. He might not like it but he seemed to get it and doesn't seem to resent anyone for it. He actively participate in mad science with Stark to create the Vision so that doesn't seem to be much of an issue for him and given the main reason for him vanishing appears to be guilt over the number of times he's hulked out in a metropolis and killed a bunch of civilians I personally think he'd be on board with not allowing a bunch of random super powered whackos to blow up a small town and get away with it because they swear they were well intentioned.

Honestly though the trailers don't give any indication the conflict centres around registration. It points much more strongly toward Cap being way too idealistic, Bucky being a dick, Stark being a trifle arrogant and then when pushed, vengeful.

[Iroscato]

Second trailer released and OH LAWD.

[Darth Nostril]

Oh fuck yes.

[Tsyroc]

The new trailer is very good. Shows what looks to be all of the heroes and a few new locations that seem kind of cool.

Don't forget that Crossbones is also in the movie. No wonder it is supposed to be Marvel's longest movie to date.

[Elheru Aran]

OH SHIT YES SPIDERMAN!

And Ant-Man!

And Black Panther!

I'll be in my bunk...

[Crazedwraith]

I want to be hyped. I am just not.

And the expressive spider-eyes just don't work in live-action.

[Enigma]

I was hoping that Spidey would join Cap's side.

[Crazedwraith]

Well if the original comic is any indication.
Spoiler

He'd start off on Tony's and defect to Cap

[Kojiro]

And the expressive spider-eyes just don't work in live-action.

I had the exact same thought. It works for Deadpool because frankly no one is taking that movie seriously. Here it just seems, well, Deadpooly.

I will say that the voice of Spiderman sounded perfect to me.

[Elheru Aran]

OK, now that I'm over the initial surge of enthusiasm, here's a shot-by-shot (more or less) analysis:

--Someplace cold. Siberia? If that's the same place as where they have those big vault doors and Bucky coming out of what appears to be cold storage, it could well be a HYDRA facility, quite possibly in Russia.

--Tape of the Chitauri invasion, the Helicarriers falling around the Triskelion, and the... elevation? Launching? Whatever, of Sovokia. General Ross and the Avengers looking all solemn. Presumably this is where Ross is all like "we're signing this, these are the rules you have to follow now" and Team Cap goes "waaaaaaaait a minute here".

--Explosion in some sort of fancy meeting room that resembles the UN. I'm pretty sure that's Chadwick Boseman picking himself up off the floor with the ash/shrapnel on his face, so that would be Black Panther/T'Challa right there. Crossbones/HYDRA/Bucky/whomever blowing up an international meeting would be my guess.

--Iron Man launching out of a helicopter and flying off. Who knows.

--A helicopter flying over what appears to be the ocean, some big-ass silo thingummy comes out of the water and opens a hatch, and we see what appears to be a set of prison cells, presumably inside the silo thingy. Tony at least is in there; he's got what looks to be a black eye and a sling. This is almost certainly the superhero prison from Civil War, just without the dimensional fuckery. It's at the bottom of the ocean now. Nice trick escaping that, I guess.

--Cap talking to Tony in a suit, in front of a bunch of screens. I don't know what they're saying.

--Bucky on a motorcycle. Black Panther is chasing him, Cap running behind. BP is apparently able to catch up and tackle Bucky off the bike, but maybe he hitched a ride on the SUV he jumps off.

--Tony deploys hand-armour, engages Bucky.

--Cap running through a building; it explodes. Just an action sequence, no idea where it falls in the movie.

--Immediately after this, we have Bucky leveling a gun. So perhaps the prior scene was Cap trying to apprehend Bucky, and getting blown up?

--War Machine flying around, and some kind of energy weapon hits him. He appears to just kinda freeze and fall out of the air; perhaps it knocked him out cold, maybe it had some sort of EMP effect?

--Tony goes after Rhodey as he falls, and yanks off his mask. Nice view of a new mark of Iron Man armour here, by the way (hand/arm armour looks different). Looks like Rhodey is hurt pretty bad?

--Bucky and Cap at what appears to be an airport. Frankfurt? Berlin? There's German writing on the luggage carts.

--Some kind of SWAT team deploying in what appears to be a tropical country; Natasha in civvies takes them out. Wakanda?

--Cap catches his shield; can't tell if it was thrown at him or if he did one of his Frisbee moves with it.

--Nat talking to Tony, Tony looks frustrated. This looks like it might be at the Avengers facility from the end of Age of Ultron and Ant-Man?

--Cap speaking in some civilian residence; cuts very quickly to Tony looking peeved at Cap, but they're not in said civilian residence. He backhands Cap, and you can see Bucky behind them. There's someone in a tank behind the group. Resembles the thing Bucky is in at the start of the trailer.

--Iron Man firing shoulder-missiles; Cap running for it as stuff blows up. Again, no idea where any of this might go in the film, or if the two are even in the same scene.

--Bucky fighting Black Panther on a rooftop; someone in a helicopter opens up on them with a machine gun. Looks like the bullets spark off Panther's outfit?

--Natasha looks over the airport; stuff blows up.

--Scarlet Witch doing magic-ish shit to Vision.

--Hawkeye fires an arrow, at the airport apparently. It pops apart, and you see Ant-Man riding it. He dives between Iron Man's fingers. I suspect he makes his way into Tony's armour and fucks it up somehow. Or tries to, anyway.

--Crossbones punches Cap. Looks like Africa; probably Wakanda. Crossbones appears to be wearing some sort of exoskeleton on at least his upper torso?

--Bloodied Cap and Tony facing off. Might be the superhero prison? "I can do this all day", a reference to the first CA movie. Nice.

--Tony and Cap fighting (again). Cap gets a decent shot in this time.

--Team Cap at the airport. Looks like Scarlet Witch can hover?

--Team Iron Man, ditto. Tony's new suit has a lot of lit-up greeblies.

--"Underoos!" Spidey can both pull Cap's shield off him and web Cap's hands together at the same time. I don't mind the animated eyes, though they do look a bit goofy in live action. The suit looks kind of a bit overly CGI for my taste, though, but who knows.

I'm fairly certain that the bit where Rhodey gets knocked out happens after the airport fight, since he's obviously functional there.

Rough guess at chain of events:

--Cap tries to bring Bucky about after catching him around the time of Ant-Man (that bit where Bucky has his arm trapped in the hydraulic press). Bucky gets away and goes into hiding.

--Ross shows up, tells everybody they have to follow rules now, initial stresses show up in the team.

--Bucky pops back up, shit hits the fan, T'challa gets blown up. I imagine this is the bit where he's being chased on the motorcycle, tries to shoot Tony but is stopped by the fancy watch-armour, and so forth. Fighting on the rooftop and whatnot.

--This leads up to the big airport fight. War Machine gets knocked out. Perhaps killed?

--I am fairly sure that Bucky is going to get tossed into the superhero prison at some point? But that maybe he's going to die because he can't get his periodic cold-storage or whatever. So Cap and company have to bust him out of there.

I'm still not sure where or how Crossbones fits in there, and of course I'm probably out on the sequence of events, but I am really looking forward to this movie now...

[NeoGoomba]

I'm pretty sure there's a brief scene of Crossbones knocking Cap backwards. It's a pretty big looking guy, possibly in some power suit, with a Crossbones-esque mask.

[Elheru Aran]

I'm pretty sure there's a brief scene of Crossbones knocking Cap backwards. It's a pretty big looking guy, possibly in some power suit, with a Crossbones-esque mask.

I saw and mentioned that, yes. My question was where he fits into the movie. Is he at the start? Does he blow Black Panther up? Or do the Avengers just run into him in the middle of their Civil War? Is he at the final denouement? It's pretty unclear from the trailer IMO--I can't follow any dialogue that may be going on apart from the snippets I've seen mentioned on FB, so I don't know if anybody says anything like "hey we've got some HYDRA action in Wakanda" right before he punches Cap or whatever.

[Khaat]

Stuff:
- is Crossbones wearing Stark-tech and on the "hero side" at first? Maybe he frames Bucky for crap he's doing himself before turning on them in a set-them-on-themselves play? (spy-movie thing: "no, we can't trust him, but we can use him.")
- if Stark could crack the problem in IM3 and save Pepper, why hasn't he been tasked to recreate the Super Soldier Serum? It should take him a weekend (see next)
- with the failure of robot guardians (A:AoU), maybe Ross is getting Stark to fire up a super-soldier program as guardians, and they go after Bucky hard because he's another variation on the process. Stark makes it personal when he finds out about his folks being on Winter Soldier's deadlist?
- the whole thing comes down to Ross wanting to get control of Banner, no matter the cost. An alternate Hydra plot (after Insight failed)? Hydra-Hulk super soldiers?

I think the most important thing to remember is that despite the characters involved, this is a Captain America movie, not an Avengers film. The big names will be Steve, Bucky, and Tony. Villains will be Hydra and Crossbones (and Ross).

[SAMAS]

I'm pretty sure there's a brief scene of Crossbones knocking Cap backwards. It's a pretty big looking guy, possibly in some power suit, with a Crossbones-esque mask.

I saw and mentioned that, yes. My question was where he fits into the movie. Is he at the start? Does he blow Black Panther up? Or do the Avengers just run into him in the middle of their Civil War? Is he at the final denouement? It's pretty unclear from the trailer IMO--I can't follow any dialogue that may be going on apart from the snippets I've seen mentioned on FB, so I don't know if anybody says anything like "hey we've got some HYDRA action in Wakanda" right before he punches Cap or whatever.

Taking a cue from the original version, most likely the confrontation that sets the whole thing off.

[Enigma]

The super prison, would that be "The Raft"?

[Gaidin]

I mean, while we're on the whole spider man thing...

[LastShadow]

I mean, while we're on the whole spider man thing...

Why is Spiderman using so much eyeliner? Is he attempting to look more like deadpool? The suit for spiderman could definetly use some more texturing, it looks....off..for some reason, or is the actor the picked not fit enough to fit in a real suit instead of CG?

Quicke Addition, it just hit me, it looks like the suit was painted on with rhino liner, for truck beds...

[Lord Revan]

it looks better in the trailer and the size of the eyes change and that pic has at smallest they were in the trailer (and based on the sound it's possible that work that in universe as well (stark tech maybe?))

[Iroscato]

I mean, while we're on the whole spider man thing...

Why is Spiderman using so much eyeliner? Is he attempting to look more like deadpool? The suit for spiderman could definetly use some more texturing, it looks....off..for some reason, or is the actor the picked not fit enough to fit in a real suit instead of CG?

Quicke Addition, it just hit me, it looks like the suit was painted on with rhino liner, for truck beds...

The eyes have something akin to camera shutters around them - in-universe they probably allow for telescopic vision or something, but for us it allows for a more expressive Spiderman, which I personally wholeheartedly welcome even if it doesn't really make sense.