Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

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The Romulan Republic
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Re: Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Rory got plenty of chances to be bad ass post-"The Big Bang", although they could have been more done with the memories. A Good Man Goes to War is the best example, but not the only one.

I also rather liked the confrontation between Rory and the Doctor (I think it was in "The Girl Who Waited"), when he accused the Doctor of turning him into someone like the Doctor.

Their was an interesting relationship between them at times. Similarities (both older mentally than they looked, both time travelers, both identified with the medical profession, both willing to go to great lengths to protect the people they cared about), but clear contrast as well (Rory wasn't terribly interested in adventuring, and only came along because of his devotion to Amy). Best of all is that Rory was someone who could and would call the Doctor out, and didn't seem as willing to buy into the allure of adventure with him as companions often are.

Rory, really, was what a companion should be- a good foil for the Doctor but also his own man (or Amy's man, at least), someone who could work with the Doctor and respect him but also stand up to him when necessary.
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Re: Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

Post by Broomstick »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:I think in Twelve's case it's made worse by the fact that he inherited Clara and her mysteries from Eleven, with whom she'd travelled for a while. The only other companions I can recall being in similar situations are Sarah Jane and Rose, but those two were handled a lot better than Clara was.
OK, let's consider Sarah Jane for a minute: arguably, one of the saner companions, certainly had her head on straighter than Amy or Clara, and had been a full, independent adult for some time prior to meeting the Doctor. As much as she is taken up by the adventure, she's mature, she knows it's not all fun and games, and having been her own women before it's much easier for her to NOT get too wrapped up with the Doctor.

Another factor is that by the time Three regenerated into Four Sarah had spent time around people who had known him as Two and conceivably had heard them discussing the weirdness of regeneration, and after he had become Four she was with other humans who had put up with the whacky before and with which she could discuss any issues that came up.

Yeah, maybe that had something to do with Sarah staying grounded. And, again, other people around the Doctor who were semi-companions might have helped keep him grounded.


Rose... well, Nine into Ten did slap her upside the head, but Rose had her family (mother and Mickey as sort of family) to bounce off of, and I don't think Rose was quite so inherently self-centered as Clara. But part of the problem is that losing Rose left the Doctor traumatized again. (I think the love/romance thing between the Doctor and Rose happened in part because at that point the Doctor believed himself to be the sole surviving member of his species and thus if he was going to have a close relationship with another thinking being it was going to have to be a non-Gallifreyan, and focusing those feelings on a human makes a lot sense. I mean, if lonely men can start to find sheep attractive then a Time Lord look-a-like like a human starts to make sense as a romantic companion when your species is otherwise extinct)

On the other hand, Clara doesn't have any family around to keep her on the level. Danny Pink served that role for awhile, and I think he was good at it (and put with up a shit-ton more lying than most would have) but then he died, and essentially the only close relationship Clara had was with an alien who was also suffering psychological trauma (and still is). Yeah, that couldn't possbily go off the rails, right?
So we have Twelve, newly regenerated into a complete new life cycle, something he didn't think possible, and Clara is there being all weird because he's different. I wonder if Twelve went along with all her wackiness because Eleven liked her and so he has to like her too. So he puts up with her shit until it becomes habit and then dependence.
There we go again - the Doctor now knows he's not the sole surviving Time Lord, but he's effectively cut off from his species for who knows how long? He thought he was at the end of his life but whoopsie, he isn't and, as alluded to in the otherwise execrable "Kill the Moon" he has no clue how many new regenerations he's been given, and he might even be effectively immortal, meaning not only does he leave the short-lived humans behind, but he might wind up the same towards other Time Lords who have "only" 12 regenerations. He's also gone from young to old in appearance and while that might not matter to his own species he knows damn well it matters to other types of people, and to humans. Most of his really old companions are gone, people like the Brigadier (hey, wait a minute...), Rose is cut off from him forever, rinse and repeat... he's as alone as he was when he ran into Rose. The ONLY person he has as a friend is Clara... and that's not really good for either of them.

Clara, by the way, is not only without family, but jumping into the Doctor's grave and getting "fractured" as she did probably messed with her head. Granted, she has only vague recollection, if that, of being "the Girl Who Save the Doctor" but it probably did damage her... which increases the Doctor's guilt because goddamnit since the Time War he's just full of guilt.

So, you have one messed up, egocentric, emotionally damaged human being slumming around with an unspeakably lonely, traumatized Time Lord - yeah, that's a mess waiting to happen. Clara is sticking to Twelve partly because Eleven more or less begged her to do that, AND the Doctor is much harder to kill than a human, so he's "safer" than getting involved with another human because she's much less likely to lose him (remember - she's lost both parents AND a lover). Twelve desperately wants Clara to stick around - remember, he's just spent centuries on Trenzalore and lost everyone he knew there fighting yet another war, he's lost Amy and Rory forever, his species is still alive but he can't get to them - he's goddamned lonely and scared spitless of BEING ALONE. He's a co-dependent and almost an abused spouse to Clara.

I would really like the next companion to be a mature, emotionally stable human being who can be a friend to the Doctor and not a co-dependent, and by friend I mean the sort who doesn't just tell you how wonderful you are, they're the sort who will slap you upside the head with a clue-by-four when you need it.

Frankly, I think there could be both much seriousness and much hilarity if the Doctor gets some actual psychological counseling to deal with all the shit in his head.

So, we need to bring the Cyber-Brigadier back as a headshrinker for the Doctor. No, ignore that, that's just me being whacky. But it would be different than the young girl/Doctor pairing we've had for 10+ years and that's what's needed, some change.
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Re: Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

One of the reasons I like Martha so much is that she is, to the best of my recollections, the only major companion in the new series to willingly walk away from the Doctor for her own reasons. That right their marks her as someone of stronger character.

Or take Rory. Never really bought into the Doctor's charms as far as I recall, and was willing to challenge him.

Also, remember what Donna said? About the Doctor needing someone to stop him? That's what a companion's duty is. Not to push him to greater insanity, like Clara did.
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Re: Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

Post by Broomstick »

Martha, Rory, Donna - even once or twice Amy, for goodness sake, who mentioned his survivor's guilt in "A Town Called Mercy" - were all people who would call out the Doctor on occasion. That "clue-by-four" I mentioned earlier.

I disagree with one point, though - I think Rory does understand the Doctor's "charms", he gets why the adventures are so appealing, but he also very, very clearly sees the downside. Rather like a lot of medical people, he understands that danger is appealing to people, and while having fun people don't always fully consider the consequences because, like other medical people, he spends his professional life dealing with the aftermath of when things go wrong.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.

Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy

Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
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Re: Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Eh, maybe. Been a long time since I watched a lot of the Rory episodes (I miss him). But I remember getting the impression that if it weren't for Amy going with him, Rory would have willingly bid the Doctor farewell and never looked back.

A more cynical way to put it (though I think it has at least an element of truth) is that Amy was addicted to adventures with the Doctor, and Rory was addicted to Amy.
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Re: Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Another thing I'm going to keep bringing up is that I'd really like to see another male/female duo. Perhaps you could have one who's the nutty adventure enthusiast who will follow the Doctor into anything, and one who's more level headed and ready to challenge the Doctor. But it would be nice if this time they reversed it and made the former male and the latter female. I'd like that.
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Re: Doctor Who news-Capaldi asked to stay post-Moffat.

Post by Solauren »

The problem with Clara can be linked to several things.

Post Dark Water, she's still dealing with Danny's death. That leads to self-destructive actions on her part. She got reckless.
BUT, the Doctor was always saving her, and she felt he always would. That was even commented on once or twice in the show.

She also figured out how to manipulate the Doctor. The Doctor was in love with her (accept it), and she knew it.

Combine that with the Doctor having been more or less alone for most of his previous regeneration, and it was Clara that got him a new lease on life....

They became a perfect example of a self-destructive couple. Until it bite Clara in the ass and she got herself killed.

She wasn't a Mary Sue. She was overconfident with a guardian angel, got annoying (like alot of people do when going off the deep end), and the end result was this past season of Dr. Who.
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