Annulment from Christianity?

[zombie84]

This is something thats been bothering me for a while. Is there any way that a person can annul themselves from the Church? I mean legally, so that any official documents show that a person has no connection to any religious institution. Is there any way to do this? I know you can do this in a marriage but this is a bit different i guess, but along the same principle. I just want to permenantly sever any conncetion to my Catholic past and i would like all legal/official documents to relfect this. Is this possible? or is there no such thing?

[Durandal]

This is something thats been bothering me for a while. Is there any way that a person can annul themselves from the Church? I mean legally, so that any official documents show that a person has no connection to any religious institution. Is there any way to do this? I know you can do this in a marriage but this is a bit different i guess, but along the same principle. I just want to permenantly sever any conncetion to my Catholic past and i would like all legal/official documents to relfect this. Is this possible? or is there no such thing?

In a nation where church and state are separated, the government has no concerns about your religious views. If you tell them you're an atheist on a census form, you're an atheist. There's no official record of you being a Catholic that you must expunge or anything, as far as I know.

[Joe]

This is something thats been bothering me for a while. Is there any way that a person can annul themselves from the Church? I mean legally, so that any official documents show that a person has no connection to any religious institution. Is there any way to do this? I know you can do this in a marriage but this is a bit different i guess, but along the same principle. I just want to permenantly sever any conncetion to my Catholic past and i would like all legal/official documents to relfect this. Is this possible? or is there no such thing?

Other than maybe some stuff the church you once attended might keep on you, I don't think there is anything.

[Durandal]

The bitchy part of Catholicism is that, once you're baptized, you're always a member of the Church (in their eyes, anyway), unless you're excommunicated, and they haven't done that for a while (I think Hitler was the last person to be excommunicated, and even that took a while).

Just make sure not to go to church anymore and not to give them any money, and you'll be all set.

[Stormbringer]

Just make sure not to go to church anymore and not to give them any money, and you'll be all set.

Heh. They still send us collection envelope things and the ocassional newsletter when we haven't been to church (oustide my dad's funeral) in years. They don't give up. Once you're baptized, as far as they're concerned, you're in it for life.

Come to think of it they're a lot like the Mafia, once you're in you're in for life, like it or not.

[Frank Hipper]

The bitchy part of Catholicism is that, once you're baptized, you're always a member of the Church (in their eyes, anyway), unless you're excommunicated, and they haven't done that for a while (I think Hitler was the last person to be excommunicated, and even that took a while).

Just make sure not to go to church anymore and not to give them any money, and you'll be all set.

Wasn't there a thread about a Nicaraguan girl being excommunicated for aborting her rape-pregnancy here just a little while ago?

[HemlockGrey]

Yeah; there was a huge protest and everything.

[Durandal]

Christ, are you serious? They're bigger assholes than I thought.

[Darth Wong]

Christ, are you serious? They're bigger assholes than I thought.

It's no joke.

Abortion for rape victim, 9, sparks furor
Procedure illegal in most cases in Latin America But Nicaraguan girl's ordeal sparks call for change

T. CHRISTIAN MILLER
SPECIAL TO THE STAR

MANAGUA, Nicaragua—She had been raped. She was pregnant. And she was dirt poor. But Rosa was 9. That gave her one more reason to want an abortion.

"I don't want to have to share my toys with another kid," she told a local newspaper reporter. "I take care of my toys.''

So, a few days later, suffering vomiting and false contractions that knotted her stomach as hard as a flexed bicep, in a clandestine operation in a private clinic the girl took a pill that ended the nearly four-month pregnancy. But it was only the beginning of an uproar that signalled how Latin America, especially Central America, has become the focus of an international battle over abortion.

The dilemma has transfixed Nicaragua, a predominantly Roman Catholic nation where abortion is illegal except when the mother's life is in danger. Newspapers have devoted special sections to the drama. Television stations have sponsored call-in programs, featuring outraged proponents and opponents of the abortion.

A panel of doctors concluded that either pregnancy or abortion presented a threat to Rosa's life, prompting a women's group to whisk the girl away for the secret procedure. The girl and her family were kept in a safe house until the nation's attorney-general ruled the abortion legal.

The nation's family affairs minister called for Rosa to be taken away from her parents. The country's highest-ranking public health official declared that abortion is a crime. The Catholic Church noted that excommunication was automatic for anyone involved in the abortion — including Rosa and her family.

"This has opened the door to a slaughterhouse," said Msgr. Jorge Solorzano, the country's second-ranking Catholic official.

Latin America, a heavily Catholic region, has always had among the world's toughest laws governing abortion. All of its Spanish-speaking countries, with the exception of Cuba, prohibit elective abortion. Most of them allow the procedure when the mother's life is in danger, some in cases of rape or incest and a few when the woman's health may be affected.

Despite the law, abortions are available.

Dr. Ana Maria Pizarro, a Nicaraguan gynecologist who directs the Si Mujer health centre, said a government study in 1996 estimated 36,000 abortions a year are performed in this country of 5 million people. She said studies she did in the 1980s found that unsafe, illegal abortions were among the leading causes of death for Nicaraguan women. Legal abortions in government hospitals are rare.

Even in countries with more lax standards, women have a difficult time putting the limited opportunities into practice.

But the rise of newly democratic legislatures and the defeat of leftist regimes have allowed the Catholic Church to mount strong lobbying campaigns in the last few years to further tighten laws or eliminate legal abortions altogether. El Salvador outlawed the procedure in 1998. Honduras recently increased penalties for doctors that provide abortions.

In the wake of the incident with Rosa, the church and right-to-life groups in Nicaragua are set to launch an all-out battle to further restrict abortion. More than 100 churches will simultaneously show a graphic anti-abortion film to congregations later this month. In April, a march with 60,000 people is planned for Good Friday.

The effort is focused on the National Assembly, which will discuss a reformed criminal code later this month that has been stalled for years over the question of whether to further penalize abortion. The idea is to convince lawmakers to change the law so that abortion would only be permitted when it occurs as a "consequence" of an operation to save a pregnant woman's life.

Rafael Cabrera, a gynecologist who heads Nicaragua's largest anti-abortion group, said Rosa would have been able to give birth to the child.

He pulled out an article about a girl said to be the youngest mother ever, a Peruvian who gave birth in 1939 at age 5. "We are in an absolutely critical stage," Cabrera said. "If the field opens to abortions here, it will have a domino effect" in Central America.

Women's rights groups have launched equally fierce campaigns to preserve existing abortion rights and, in a few cases, ease restrictions. Publicity surrounding the rape of a 13-year-old girl in Mexico a few years ago resulted in some states adding exceptions to abortion bans.

The groups note World Health Organization statistics showing one-fifth of maternal deaths in Latin America are related to unsafe abortions, the highest of any region in the world. About 20 per cent of all pregnancies in Latin America are estimated to end in abortion.

Few of the groups involved, however, express hope of expanding women's ability to obtain abortions, citing the overwhelming reach and power of the Catholic Church. Instead, they concentrate on protecting existing legal opportunities.

Rosa was 8 when she was raped last November. She was living with her mother and father in a farming town in the central highlands of Costa Rica, part of the thousands of Nicaraguan sharecroppers who illegally cross the border into the wealthier nation to harvest sugarcane and coffee.

Rosa has provided a formal statement to the police that a Costa Rican neighbour, identified only by his last name, Barquero, 20, raped her. Barquero, who was arrested and is in custody, has denied the charges. Costa Rican prosecutors say that they want to perform a DNA test but that Nicaraguans have told them they cannot find the fetus' remains.

LOS ANGELES TIMES, With files from associated press

[Durandal]

I don't even know what to say about that. Reading that literally had me stunned.

[Kuroneko]

Stunning, indeed.

I've heard something about the Vatican reversing that. Is anyone actually excommunicated as a result of this currently?

[Queeb Salaron]

Actually, it is possible to secede from the Catholic church. There was a website that provided an official document and legally binding contract that could be printed and signed that basically said that the undersigned is officially separated from the Catholic church. If you're interested, run a web search on "Excommunication" or "Declaration of Atheism." I'm sure you'll find it.

[Stormbringer]

I don't even know what to say about that. Reading that literally had me stunned.

I'm appalled but not really suprised. That's the kind of automatic knee jerk bullshit that pisses me off about the Catholic Church. Murder millions and start a world war and they drag their feet. Abort a rapist's baby and they excommunicate you without a second thought. They don't give a shit about the people for whom the Church is for instead they'd rather preserve their Dark Age dogma.

Stunning, indeed.

I've heard something about the Vatican reversing that. Is anyone actually excommunicated as a result of this currently?

It wouldn't suprise me. It's policy to excommunicate people for a wide variety of offenses against their dogma.

[Queeb Salaron]

Here's the site I was talking about earlier.

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/excommunication.htm

Just sign on the dotted line, please.

[Temjin]

Reading that made me want to vomit.

I don't know what else to say.........

[zombie84]

Thanks a lot Queeb Salaron! checking it out now...

[Uther]

I'm confused by the disparity in the dates, but this seems to be the same story; I'm unable to find a corraborating article, unfortunately:

Rebellion forces Vatican u-turn in child rape case
Giles Tremlett in Madrid and Rupert Widdicombe in Managua
Friday March 7, 2003
The Guardian

The Roman Catholic church has responded to a rebellion of 26,000 people worldwide demanding to be excommunicated by withdrawing its threat to punish the parents of a nine-year-old Nicaraguan girl who had an abortion after being raped, campaigners said yesterday.

Representatives of a Spanish internet campaign, run to gain volunteers for excommunication in solidarity with the girl known as "Rosa", handed the list of 26,000 names to the Vatican's representative in Spain, Monsignor Manuel Monteiro, earlier this week.

Faced with such a massive task, the Roman Catholic authorities in Managua had backtracked on their excommunication threats against Rosa's family, campaigners said.

"They have turned back. Our mission is accomplished," said a spokeswoman, Angeles Alvarez.

The petition read: "I also want to be excommunicated in the face of the excommunication of Rosa's parents in Nicaragua because all of us have contributed actively in making the interruption of Rosa's pregnancy possible."

Nearly half of the signatories were Roman Catholic men, according to the organisers, an association of Spanish feminist groups.

Rosa was raped in Costa Rica in November and in fected with two venereal diseases. A 20-year-old man has been arrested.

The cardinal of Managua, Miguel Obando y Bravo, had declared that the girl's parents and the doctors who carried out the abortion had excommunicated themselves ipso facto after they braved Nicaragua's strict laws and went ahead with the operation two weeks ago.

"Is there any difference between a bus full of passengers ripped apart by a car bomb and the impact of a metal instrument in the womb of a mother to suck out the foetus?" the archdiocese of Managua's newsletter asked last week.

The country's rightwing government had also warned that the parents might face prosecution. But the attorney general, Maria del Carmen Solorzano, declared this week that no charges would be brought because the abortion had been carried out to save the girl's life.

An estimated 15,000 women are taken to hospital every year with abortion-related complications in Nicaragua - one of the leading causes of female mortality.

Although sex education in schools began to concentrate on morality and abstinence after the defeat of the leftwing Sandinistas in 1990 elections, one in three of 15 to 19-year-olds is a mother. Rape is a common cause of pregnancy.

This is from
http://www.religiousconsultation.org/Va ... d_rape.htm

[Eleas]

In a nation where church and state are separated, the government has no concerns about your religious views. If you tell them you're an atheist on a census form, you're an atheist. There's no official record of you being a Catholic that you must expunge or anything, as far as I know.

No, I think he was talking about the USA.

[Peregrin Toker]

(I think Hitler was the last person to be excommunicated, and even that took a while).

Wasn't Hitler excommunicated posthumously??

[PeZook]

Great. So the Church would rather have her carry the baby, and most probably DIE because of it, instead of letting Rosa take the pill...

No comment. I don't really know what to say.

[Tsyroc]

This is something thats been bothering me for a while. Is there any way that a person can annul themselves from the Church? I mean legally, so that any official documents show that a person has no connection to any religious institution. Is there any way to do this? I know you can do this in a marriage but this is a bit different i guess, but along the same principle. I just want to permenantly sever any conncetion to my Catholic past and i would like all legal/official documents to relfect this. Is this possible? or is there no such thing?

My parents once requested that their letter seeking to join a church was returned when they had a falling out with the pastor. It was their way of making absolutely sure that they were not considered members anymore.

It was a small American Baptist church and to join you had to request to become a member by written letter. The church was supposed to keep all membership letters on file. My mom was very disapointed and angry with that church at the time and my parents haven't belonged or regularly attended a church since then (mid 80's).

[Durandal]

I'd happily sign that letter, except that what if I meet a girl who I'd like to marry, but she's always had her heart set on a white wedding in a big, grand church or something like that? I know that, if that was the case, I'd gladly be Roman Catholic for a day to make her happy (of course, that night I'd be back to my godless tricks again . ). I have a hard time believing that the Church would perform a marriage between someone who told them to go fuck themselves in writing and a professed Catholic.

[Darth Wong]

(I think Hitler was the last person to be excommunicated, and even that took a while).

Wasn't Hitler excommunicated posthumously??

Yes. He wasn't excommunicated until 1948 IIRC. Years after his death, and only in response to public pressure. Keep in mind that Hitler was an altar boy who was just keeping up a centuries-long Catholic tradition of murdering Jews.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I don't even know what to say about that. Reading that literally had me stunned.

Yes, it is quite stupid. If thousands are going to protest a 9 year-old aborting a baby that would probably kill them both if delivered, and was only there from a rape, then they should stop thumping their Bibles and take a look at the world around them. What if they were a poor girl who was raped, impregnated, and physically incapable of delivering a baby?

[Zoink]

Next census I'm putting "jedi" in the religious section, like the 400,000 did in the UK.