Daredevil Season 2 Thread

[Gaidin]

Spoiler

I love how they handled the Punisher in Season 2 like they handled Daredevil in Season 1. While yes, a lot of the story was Daredevil because yes, you're watching Darevil. This was a lot of origin story for Punisher. And he finally embraces the name and theme at the end, once everyone involved in the death of his family was dead.

[Broomstick]

Spoiler

It was also the origin story for Elektra

[Iroscato]

Spoiler

Finished season 2 last night...and I'd say overall it was even better than the first. Sure, it was a bit uneven and the Daredevil/Elektra vs ninjas got a bit repetitive (possibly as I already had my fill of ninjas in Arrow), but the more complex plot held together very nicely overall and started pulling back the curtain on the wider aspects of the DD lore. God dammit...now I have to wait another year!

[General Zod]

Finished it, loved it.

Punisher was really the highlight of the season, no if ands or buts aboot it. I kept thinking he was going to be Shane with a Punisher shirt but no, Bernthal really worked. And not one head rub. Kinda underutilized towards the end though.

Kingpin is still a scene stealer. Elektra grew on me towards the end once she did her own thing.

Enough with the freaking ninjas already. By the end I was really missing the ethnic stereotypes that were the mooks before. The show really adhered to the Conservation of Ninjutsu. One ninja almost took down Matt while whole piles of them were taken down without a problem. The ninjas were kinda stupid, using bows to fight. I understand tradition but there is a reason that the gun replaced the bow. If some dudes super ninja powers make him good with a bow I'm sure it would make him just as good with a rifle and the rifle has the added advantage of not being able to be blocked so easily, a complaint I had about the series Arrow.

Overall I enjoyed the series more then JJ or season 1 (though both of those were excellent despite the occasional bit of bore) and look forward to Luke Cage and a possible Punisher series (I'm not sure if its been confirmed yet).

Well, to be fair it's a lot harder to coat bullets with lethal toxins and they aren't nearly as silent.

[Joun_Lord]

Well, to be fair it's a lot harder to coat bullets with lethal toxins and they aren't nearly as silent.

I'm sure if the assclown Anders Brevik could find a way to inject nicotine in his bullets ninjas can do the same with theirs. And guns can be made pretty silent depending on the caliber and size of the suppressor. Plus the ninjas didn't really seem all that keen on hiding themselves what with the running battle against the car over several streets in NYC and firing upon cops. Them having guns means nobody is catching the stuff they fire and depending on the ammo is probably not going to need poison to kill a person considering they should be deadly enough themselves.

I know, I know, ruins the motif of the ninja but I would think ninjas would be practical. And only ever fight using one guy because armies of ninjas are a bad idea.

[General Zod]

Well, to be fair it's a lot harder to coat bullets with lethal toxins and they aren't nearly as silent.

I'm sure if the assclown Anders Brevik could find a way to inject nicotine in his bullets ninjas can do the same with theirs. And guns can be made pretty silent depending on the caliber and size of the suppressor. Plus the ninjas didn't really seem all that keen on hiding themselves what with the running battle against the car over several streets in NYC and firing upon cops. Them having guns means nobody is catching the stuff they fire and depending on the ammo is probably not going to need poison to kill a person considering they should be deadly enough themselves.

I know, I know, ruins the motif of the ninja but I would think ninjas would be practical. And only ever fight using one guy because armies of ninjas are a bad idea.

I dunno, it's just not a plot point that I'm worrying about too much considering the story is about a blind guy who fights crime.

[Joun_Lord]

I dunno, it's just not a plot point that I'm worrying about too much considering the story is about a blind guy who fights crime.

Don't get me wrong, its not some big thing. It doesn't make the show less enjoyable or anything, its just a kinda annoying bit in an otherwise solid show. Heck the sheer amount of ninjas bothered me more then their arsenal did.

But still it does bother me a bit, its one of those tropes that keeps getting screen time despite being dumb as shit. Like the mooks armed with guns running at the protagonist to melee fighting him one at a time or the boss fight that somehow ends the massive threat like an army or gang almost Phantom Menace style or the horror movie cliche of never checking to see if the killer is dead (preferably with a brick to the face).

Those aren't really something that take away from the show but tend to show gaps in the writing, people relying on cliches and tropes rather then doing something new and arguably smarter.

Though I guess because they are adapting the show from comics they can't move too far from the source and are probably saddled with the normal comic tropes, hence the impractically armed army of ninjas who are only a threat if they are alone.

[Gaidin]

Spoiler

If you look at the season as being The One Where Nobody is Really Right and Everyone is Slightly Wrong, it seems to work just very very awesome. Why? Because everybody is arguing with everybody in very slightly annoying ways utnil you think it through. Everyone in the gang (and that grumpy dude with the boomsticks) is flawed or overzealous. Sometimes both. Sometimes stupid. Yes. Stupid is different. You can be flawed without being stupid. I'm aware stupidity is a flaw, but when I specifically list stupidity as a flaw I expect a character to dribble spit instead of miss details people aren't telling him.

This is actually what I love about this season over the last. These are characters who are so motivated by who they are that where their motivations do not align become almost insurmountable points of friction. Foggy and legally protecting one woman from her husband but only as far as he's legally able. Matt and fukitol protecting that same woman from her abusive husband when he finds out she's going to leave him. Karen and digging up those otherwise classified details of Frank Castle. Wilson Fisk and playing the long game. Frank Castle and lecturing Matt Murdoch on the one day that makes the difference between the two of them. Elektra and going balls to the wall against the people she's been working with when they try to off her. All while these characters grate against each other in their self-assigned tasks in how they will protect Hell's Kitchen(Except Elektra...she probably doesn't give two craps about Hell's Kitchen specifically). To me, it is more realistic than all the gritty fight choreography in the series.

To cite a specific example, Matt and Foggy both have a point against each other by Episode 8. Foggy has been riding him for all but abandoning his law job for his Daredevil job against both the Punisher and eventually against the Hand(admittedly, Foggy never learns of the Hand) and maybe even a mix of the two. Matt Murdoch just flat out says he's going to stop apologizing because he's not giving up taking up where the law can't keep up. It’s just that their points differ and they are so strained in their relationships that they cannot find an amicable compromise. Neither one is more right than the other but they are both somewhat inconsiderate.

Foggy knows what Matt is doing is generally for the greater good and he is certainly well-meant but, but...! Foggy’s still left holding the bag and compromising all that he has worked for, tangibly and emotionally. What Matt has done work for in the trial, Foggy has to wing and improvise. Foggy has to keep lying to Karen. He (interpretively) trips Castle over the line to admitting he committing all acts and ruining their trial when HE DOES HAPPEN TO BE THERE. Admittedly, that last was definitively set up by Fisk, but, not even Murdoch and Nelson can known that, they both believe Matt accidentally tripped that outburst. And to the end, Foggy legitimately believes that. And Matt holds it back. Assuming he ever learns the truth from his meeting with the Kingpin. Matt knows Foggy’s complaints are valid but he still feels deeply responsible for concluding his extra-curricular business and cannot allow their interpersonal issue to prevent his mission. And this fault line is compounded by all the other disagreements they have over priorities and ethics.

Daredevil and Elektra and Karen end up more as a triangle and a simple if convoluted one. It was well done for a tv one. A normal human would've walked in, seen that injured woman, would've gone "What's wrong with her and how can I help?!" but like all TV Karen jumps to the traditional "WTF". I shall not deny this. Dramatic dialogue vs. Realistic. What can you do. It drives them down a road of relationships where Matt wonders if Karen could ever understand him even though he's never bothered telling her who he really is, whereas Elektra is the person who encourages his actions as Daredevil. His desperation to save the hostages at the end, and keep Elektra out of danger, at the end are pretty telling. And as a result, he just can't keep a secret anymore.

In this season my favorite relationship was between Karen and Frank. He was both using her and opening up to her. It was like she was his latch onto sanity as he was looking for his next kill for half the season. Which was very interesting. And then came the time where he escaped from prison and tracked her down in her apartment and I'd like to interpret used her as bait to attract a tail after he saved her. But I can't tell fully. It was vague. It was a harsh re-introduction to reality for Karen.

The last major relationship of the season is Daredevil(not Matt) and Frank. Or Red. God I love the name Frank gave him. The two spent the early part of the season literally chasing each other cat and dog, but the third episode is the heart of it when Frank has Daredevil tied to the wall. "If you want to stop me, shoot me in the head." Straight out of the comic. Beautiful. The spirit of the characters was caught just as beautifully when Frank told him that when Daredevil takes them alive and Frank kills them, the only difference between them is one day. But as the season goes on it starts changing. Slowly. The more Matt learns about what caused Frank's situation, the more of a near sympathetic near-alliance there is. To the point where he's man-handling the Punisher, but the Punisher is too emotional too effectively fight when he thinks Daredevil is keeping him from killing the Blacksmith. This leads to Frank getting the information he needs almost accidentally, and embracing the persona of the Punisher, and possibly in return, supporting Matt as he fights the Hand. Fitting.

In this Empire Strikes Back installment of the series, the greatest damage is to literally the team. It remains to be seen if the next chapter of their story gets the band back together. Their methods for dealing with events were that shocking and that far flung. Where season 1 was uniting, season 2 was a bomb going off.

TL;DR: Foggy has every cause to be mad and every reason to let it slide. Karen has every reason to smack Matt, every reason to embrace him, and every reason walk away. Matt has every reason to keep doing what he does, and every reason to plead with the others to accept that and hope that they do. Frank has every reason to be Frank but that's just something I wanted to stick in there. None of them have any correct answer and their emotions driving their response is a very, very human thing. It works for me. Your milage may vary.

[General Zod]

Daredevil and Elektra and Karen end up more as a triangle and a simple if convoluted one. It was well done for a tv one. A normal human would've walked in, seen that injured woman, would've gone "What's wrong with her and how can I help?!" but like all TV Karen jumps to the traditional "WTF". I shall not deny this. Dramatic dialogue vs. Realistic. What can you do. It drives them down a road of relationships where Matt wonders if Karen could ever understand him even though he's never bothered telling her who he really is, whereas Elektra is the person who encourages his actions as Daredevil. His desperation to save the hostages at the end, and keep Elektra out of danger, at the end are pretty telling. And as a result, he just can't keep a secret anymore.

Karen and Matt's relationship was already strained at that point. She knew he was hiding things and lying to her, so when you already suspect someone you're emotionally involved with of lying and you walk in with another woman in his bed, well, it's not an unreasonable conclusion to jump to.

[Crazedwraith]

So, been watching this episode a day to not run out. Up to episode 3. Episodes 1 and 2 seems surprisingly exactly the same. 3 was good in that finally Matt got to beat some in a fight rather than being narrowly beaten by Punisher each time. But the main point of the episode 'kill the criminal or me' was something that's been done a lot.

I

[Knife]

It was very well done, easily as good if not better than season 1. Hell, I'm not even that big of a fan of the source material, but the show is so well made. I especially appreciate that while it is Daredevil, it really was season one of the Punisher and the type of Punisher I liked as a kid. A troubled, sympathetic, damaged person trying to do what's right in a wrong way type thing. I have to say though, when I saw the mini gun in the basement, then the waves of ninjas after DD, I have expected Frank to burst onto the roof and mow down a couple score of bad guys for Matt.

[NeoGoomba]

I'm not sure if we're going to get a Season 3, or if the next time we see Daredevil it will be in the Defenders series. They could easily set up a resurgent Hand as the villainous group the Hell's Kitchen team has to fight against.

[Darth Yan]

I was wondering if they should have saved the hand for season 3, since we still don't know why they didn't need the property. Also, if they could revive elektra why not the black sky from last season? It just felt like the hand plot was underdeveloped in areas. The Punisher and his trial could have covered more of the season; we see hints of the hand storyline advancing but the punisher's origin and how matt gets sucked in should have been the main focus, with the blacksmith as the final boss.

I think another reason Foggy was upset is because Elektra inadvertently damaged their case. They needed Tepper to admit that he had lied and doctored the reports. Unfortunately, while Elektra was well meaning her actions made Tepper's confession inadmissible. If Elektra hadn't done that and Matt got Tepper to confess on his own their case would be stronger.

I also liked how they made Reyes involved without making her evil. She made a stupid call, and desperate to avoid fallout (a war hero and his family getting almost killed/killed because of her stupid call would kill her career. Look at how the reveal that Linda Fairstein screwed the pooch with the Central Park 5 damaged her career and dogs her to this day. Reyes actions feel human; she made a mistake but can't come clean.

[Crown]

I'm not sure if we're going to get a Season 3, or if the next time we see Daredevil it will be in the Defenders series. They could easily set up a resurgent Hand as the villainous group the Hell's Kitchen team has to fight against.

Filming for The Defenders just announced by Charlie Cox (he has no idea about a Season 3 Daredevil at this stage though); sauce.

[Crazedwraith]

I just finished it. Not sure how I feel. It's good but damn did all the ninja attacks get boring. Stick, the Ninja and Elekta are just the weakest, worst parts of the series to me. Right up to Elektra's comic book death. It's out of the comic but still.

The Nelson/Murdock split. I hope this gets picked up in Season 3 or Defenders. It seems sad that it didn't get resolved at all but on the other hand I didn't want a repeat of last season where Nelson is outraged but then sort of shrugs and everything's fine again. Him joining up with Hogarth was great and I guess he's going to end up in the same position he was in Landman & Zach, watching and hating all the amoral shit going on at his law firm and want Nelson & Murdoch back.

In the opposite case, the Colonel was the Blacksmith right? I'm really surprised that was tied up so quickly. It felt him being named and introduced so late in the series he was slatted to be something big later on. Didn't guess him at all, my thought on the new shooter was it was going to be the outburst kid from the trail like a Jigsaw style deal.

The episode 3 DD/Punisher scene was nothing that's not been done many many times before. There was real Dark Knight/Joker feel to their relationship early on. Especially the copycats bits and the 'one bad day' line.

The Kingpin and his rule in jail was the hightlight of the series for me. And I wasn't that keen on him in the first one. Plus Foggy being awesome and Ellison tutoring Karen in the way of Urich style reporting.