Aid the Union against a Nazi assisted Confederacy (RAR!)

[Zor]

In this scenario it is 1861 and the war between the states has begun, but things have taken an unexpected twist for in a base in Alabama the CSA has gotten an unexpected boost from a strange group of immigrants...

The story could be summed up as such: in the Last Days of the Second World War the forces of Nazi Germany had decided to use an artifact that they recovered to send a group of their soldiers eighty six years back in time to Alabama to undermine America so that it can never pose a threat to the German Reich. They gathered up a battalion of the Waffen SS, another one of the Wehrmacht and sent them through to 1859 to rural Alabama along with a group of engineers, technicians and workers as well as some supplies, equipment, books of blueprints, gold and similar. In addition to their small arms also brought with them some additional gear including three BF-109s (along with flight crews and four Luftwaffe pilots), 15 steam powered trucks, six cannons and two Panzer-IVs. In total they sent through about 2,400 people, most of them know some English with a few fluent speakers. They managed to bribe enough officials to make the town of Hitlersberg a legal reality and soon got to work setting up a small industrial town. They also bought slaves to bolster their workforce.

Their objectives are as such: when the Civil War broke out they would come to the aide of the Confederacy providing them with new weapons and tactics that they could use against the CSA and gradually move the CSA's culture to be similar to that of Nazi Germany's. Already they've managed to produce copies of the Mauser 1871 rifle, Potato Masher grenades, reichsrevolvers, explosive grade TNT, brass cased ammunition, STEN style sub machine guns, basic oil refining and propaganda posters and have projects going to make mortars, automatic pistols, rockets, repeating bolt action rifles, belt fed machine guns, smokeless powder, radios, phonographs and internal combustion engines that are well under way. They will also provide blueprints and engineers to CSA industrial projects to improve their efficiency, are working on making additional machine tools and will send in their veteran soldiers to train up regiments while sending their own soldiers in to fight as a last resort. They also have a reserve of 4,000 kar98 rifles and a fair amount of ammunition.

You've been tasked by ROB to stop them from succeeding. You will be sent back in time with a hundred modern people to aide the union under your command. Among them is a Platoon of Canadian Army soldiers (most of whom have had experience training troops) led by a Jewish Lt. with standard loadout and various engineers and historians as well as a 150 kilograms of civilian equipment per guy. This includes two solar powered laptops for each person as well as machine tools, spare parts, engineering textbooks and similar. All of whom understand what is going on and that it needs to be stopped. Your job is to provide the US with assistance.

What do you do?

Zor

[Joun_Lord]

I don't know if there is anything anyone could do without maybe smuggling through a functional Davy Crockett portable nuke launcher to turn Hitlersburg into a smoking ruin. Even then the amount of tech and equipment spread out will make defeating the Confederacy hard to do.

The difference in opponents is staggering. The Nazi's already have a tech base established far enough South to not be threatened easily, nearly 2 thousand and a half people, and vast quantities of decent firearms and ammo. They have air support that is going to be nearly impossible to fight against even with modern hand carry equipment and two tanks that are going to be tough to take out even with modern equipment. They are already supplying the Confeddie bastards with modern-ish equipment that will give them a massive advantage over the Union even with the Unions superior manufacturing capability and numbers. Any army of Southern Gentlemen defending the states rights to let people own other people armed with Stens and repeater rifles plus radio to coordinate will utterly trample any Union army even if the Union has numbers on their side. Considering they are going to be steam rolling the Union, literally in the case of the steam powered trucks, Europe is probably going to quickly see what way the chips are going to fall and switch to their side rather then remain neutral further adding to the resource imbalance.

The Union allies have a hundred people with some various tools and textbooks plus some possibly useless laptops (you didn't say if they were loaded with anything, they could just be standard laptops factory fresh which other then playing Solitaire are pretty useless). Of those hundred people only about 40 might be combat capable and not even some HSLD TIER 1 OPERATOR Special Forces types but normal troops. They are equipped with a standard loadout which might last them a couple days of fighting at most. With no mention of spare ammo or weapons they are going to be reliant of local weapons after a few days meaning even special forces would be generally useless. No vehicles so no mobility for a surgical strike. No pre-built equipment so they can arm their allies meaning they'd have to wait however many months it will take to build the tools to build the tools to build modern-ish arms and ammo before the Union can go toe to toe with the Nazi-Confederates assuming they even have months. Can't even go around and arm up the slaves because they aren't very mobile and don't have the arms to arm them with.

There is no way for the Union side to win this. Maybe give them some Gundams or something to give them a chance.

[Thanas]

The resources are not there for the Nazis for ongoing production, so instead they will just rush washington. The Union Army has pretty much nothing to stop them (Imagine Bull Run with Air support and tanks etc.).

In response I simply pick as much modern weaponry as I can carry, especially a few AT weapons to take out the PzIVs. Knock out the Nazi spearhead and they can be drowned in Union bodies.

[Purple]

Send messengers to the Confederate Nazi commander informing him of the situation and warning that I have reinforcements coming (he does not know I don't) and I know he has reinforcements coming (pretending I don't know he doesn't) and that unless we can both come to terms and stay out of the conflict this is going to escalate into a full blown time war. And nobody wants a piece of that paradox ridden nightmare.

Even if I can't get him to stand down this should at the very least be a good opening move.

[Simon_Jester]

The SS commander is likely a fanatic who might well welcome a time-war as more likely to result in survival or victory for the Reich than the status quo. I imagine there were Nazis who would cheerfully wreck all time and space if that was what it took to establish the interests of Naziism.

As to Thanas, the Union's supply of bodies isn't as unlimited as one might like, and the Nazis have about two battalions of (presumably) combat-experienced veterans against our platoon. We may not be able to knock out their spearhead of modern soldiers; there's a very real danger that they will be able to simply decisively break any Union force by smashing a hole in the line with raw firepower from MG-42s and Mausers. These are early Civil War troops, they will panic and break relatively easily.

I'm sure we could neutralize the panzers if they should take the field, because modern guided antitank missiles have stupidly long range to the point where the panzers blow up from outside the range at which they can even aim their guns. The Messerschmitts will pose more of a problem, but the Nazis cannot realistically keep fueling and maintaining them indefinitely, and even in the total absence of meaningful air defense, they can only do so much damage. Bringing a few Stinger missiles or whatever won't help much, because we can't be sure the missiles will be there to shoot down the planes- aircraft have nearly unlimited freedom to select targets across a large area.

It is likely that the Nazis will be able to provide ongoing supplies of repeating rifles and smokeless powder to the Confederacy, even if we defeat all their soldiers somehow, bearing in mind that they were amply equipped with machinery to do exactly that. Even if their military expedition is defeated, we haven't solved the problem, though we've at least knocked it back to a level that can be solved if the Union government remains determined to crush the rebels.

[Thanas]

The SS commander is likely a fanatic who might well welcome a time-war as more likely to result in survival or victory for the Reich than the status quo. I imagine there were Nazis who would cheerfully wreck all time and space if that was what it took to establish the interests of Naziism.

As to Thanas, the Union's supply of bodies isn't as unlimited as one might like, and the Nazis have about two battalions of (presumably) combat-experienced veterans against our platoon. We may not be able to knock out their spearhead of modern soldiers; there's a very real danger that they will be able to simply decisively break any Union force by smashing a hole in the line with raw firepower from MG-42s and Mausers. These are early Civil War troops, they will panic and break relatively easily.

Right, what I meant was concentrate the modern weaponry against when they committ their spearhead and their troops. They cannot repair or replace any lost equipment. In that case, a few repeating rifles will not make much of a difference once they exhausted their ammo / spare parts and fuel reserves.

But if I am the Nazi commander I do nothing at all. Instead, I am waiting for the 1900s and then go back to the German Empire. That tech advantage is a lot closer to actually being reproducable then and knowing what went wrong in 1914 will most likely help Germany win WWI, at which point it does not matter if the USA has slavery or not.

[Simon_Jester]

It would probably still be to the Nazis' advantage to secure a Confederate victory, since ensuring a politically divided North America removes a serious potential threat (though the SS men don't know about the atomic bomb and thus may not grasp just how great the threat really is).

However, you are almost certainly right that it would be more advantageous to deploy the same resources in 1890 to 1900-era Germany...

[Sea Skimmer]

With 6,000 men with modern rifles and the Army of Northern Virginia for a flank guard the Germans would simply burn Washington, liberate Baltimore, then burn Philadelphia and the Union would implode before they reach Trenton on the way to go burn New York City. Seriously the Union troops wouldn't even outnumber the Confederate Nazis by that much, 6,000ish extra troops is actually significant in its own right. The Bf109s meanwhile would wipe out the nascent Union blockade in Hampton Roads and in the process half the remaining major warships of the Union fleet.

Maybe in 1864 or 1865 this could be a bit interesting but in 1861 it is just a joke. Nothing you could do with so few resource and a mere handful of modern day troops would prevent a total Union political implosion, and even if you avoided that the Germans would just keep going north burning out the economic heart of the Union until they hit Boston. At that point the Union would go bankrupt.

[Iroscato]

I'd contact the British Empire quick-fucking-smart. That's not me being overly patriotic or anything, it was the most powerful nation on Earth at the time and absolutely what I'd need to gain enough firepower to overcome these bastards. Union soldiers ain't got a prayer.
How would I go about convincing them to join the fight? God knows. I'd hold a war council with my smartest people to hammer out a plan - maybe beforehand I'd load up a laptop with hours of footage and history books showing them just how dangerous the Nazis were before they were dropped in a place almost a century behind technologically. Hopefully my sudden appearance (arriving in style using a ramshackle improvised flying machine), my impossibly advanced technology, and my despairing, swivel - eyed mania would be enough to get me an audience with the British government.
Back 'home' I'd leave my posse with orders to engage in guerrilla warfare to the fullest extent possible, anything to slow down the fashionable fascists in their advances. I'd also order them to teach Union soldiers the most up to date tactics in such matters.

Hopefully, I'd spark a full-on invasion of Northern America by the British, and perhaps the French, wishing to support their old allies in their darkest hour. It would be just splendid if I could avoid ripping a hole in the space-time continuum as well from all of this malarkey.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Given what SeaSkimmer has said, even a successful appeal to the British for aid would almost certainly arrive far too late to help the Union. You might get an invasion and possible defeat of the triumphant Confederacy later, but any serious efforts would takes months if not years to assemble, which gives the ConfedNazis time to dig in, expand production of their advanced weapons and generally be dicks to everyone.

Now if you're mission is to stop the Nazis, then go straight to Britain, give them the advanced technology and build up an unstoppable force to re-take the Colonies (heh) in ten years or so. But since our mission is to help save the Union, this will take too long.

[Iroscato]

Given what SeaSkimmer has said, even a successful appeal to the British for aid would almost certainly arrive far too late to help the Union. You might get an invasion and possible defeat of the triumphant Confederacy later, but any serious efforts would takes months if not years to assemble, which gives the ConfedNazis time to dig in, expand production of their advanced weapons and generally be dicks to everyone.

Now if you're mission is to stop the Nazis, then go straight to Britain, give them the advanced technology and build up an unstoppable force to re-take the Colonies (heh) in ten years or so. But since our mission is to help save the Union, this will take too long.

Well I'm fresh-fuck out of ideas then in that case. No way in hell that I can see of there being a way to stop them in time. Maybe I'll just play My Little Pony on repeat on all of the laptops and hope the Krauts see the error of their ways.
But that would possibly mean unleashing a far greater evil than the Nazis could ever hope to be upon the world...

[Sea Skimmer]

The British would be vastly more likely to join the war against the Federalists and annex Oregon then they would be to lift a single finger to help the Union.

This is afterall a country which so openly allowed Confederate warships to be built, armed and manned in British ports that it paid 15 million dollars in the Alabama Claims case postwar over it. They really only stopped this activity in the aftermath of Gettysburg and the Emancipation Proclamation. The reperations were paid because they became very concerned that in a future war in Europe the US would simply turn a blind eye to its own shipyards building not a few but hundreds of 'merchant ships' that happened to have gun ports.

A big reason why the British were pro Confederate was base economics too. In 1861 the Union merchant marine was seriously muscling into trade routes which had been British in some cases since the first Anglo Dutch War, the British were really damn happy to have this massively disrupted by the Confederates. For every ship the rebels sank several simply changed flags, and usually to that of the English crown. They might not super approve of cities being burnt down, but as long as its by other white people they won't give a damn about it. The US merchant Marine didn't really recover from this disruption until after 1900.

Besides that a practical problem exists in terms of even proving anything about the Nazis. The claims they have cannon armed flying machines ect.... won't be taken seriously for months. I suppose the laptops would help with that, but indeed that would be only a long term approach to containment. No sort of quick reaction is plausible or would be useful, the British had a big navy but in 1861 they had a very small army everywhere but India, and the India army just a few years after the Mutiny will certainly not be called upon. Also it'd easily take 6 months to get any of it to North America. Nearly all British troops in the UK were militia with no legal obligation to leave the Home Islands.

[Purple]

One thing that everyone keeps forgetting is that without an america to intervene in WW1 the Germans don't lose. And thus the nazis don't come to be in the first place. And that is something that the German commander will want to take note of.

Either way, I think that if preventing them from wining in the colonies is out of the question than the next best thing is to make their victory useless. And to do that I would travel to Europe, in particular Prussia. Giving Germany the sort of advanced technology it needs to unite earlier and become a continental hyperpower should ensure that the whole mess is undone before it even begins. And if time travel does not work that way the course of action still leaves a united, strong Germany that is unlikely to fall pray to the teachings of Hitler.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Given that this is an SS unit let by (presumably) a fanatic commander, I suspect he would believe the Nazis would achieve power regardless (it is the one true way forward etc etc) so I doubt he would care if his actions stop the historical rise of Hitler.

[Purple]

He might not. But all the jews, gipsies, slavs and other people who died as a direct or indirect result of the regime that is by my actions prevented from being very much will. I mean, let's be real. If I can't stop the Nazi confederates from wining stopping Hitler is a nice consolation prize.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Except that fanatical SS officer is now in command of what is in this world the most powerful military force, in a nation that already sees some as sub-humans and has access to means of producing advanced weapons to arm the CSA. You may stop Hitler but you've got the absolute worst of Nazi German, in a position of near-unassailable strength 80 years early. In other words, no Hitler but still Nazis.

[Joun_Lord]

You'd probably still have Hitler even in this scenario. Its only about 30 years until Shitler is born, probably will be born even with the altered timeline. The Nazi Confederate Empire is probably going to wait patiently for April 20th 1889 to roll around and then go for the bouncing baby bastard. Raise him as their Fuhrer from birth pretty much. So you would still have Hitler just now indoctrinated in the Nazi way since a very young age by the Nazis. Nazis in command of atleast all of America (I doubt the Nazis would just stop with conquering the North, probably take all of North America but probably wouldn't attack Europe so as to not to risk having Hitler not be born) armed with advanced weapons and technology possibly even more advanced then WWII tech depending on what they can capture from the Union time travelers and what they can come up with during the decades. All that in the hands of a madman who might even be worse then he was originally, think he is literally destined to rule the world, trained in warfare since a child, commanding troops even more fanatically loyal to him then the original Nutzis.

Even without Hitler though, its as Eternal Freedom said, its still the most hardcore Nazis in control of an entire vast nation of people and resources conquered by douchebags just as bad as they are in a world ripe for conquest.

Plus with future knowledge they can kill any possible threats usually before they are born Terminator style. Winston Churchill, dead. Joseph Stalin, dead. Franky Roosevelt, dead. George VI, dead. Charles de Gaulle, dead. Nazi death squads would probably travel through the world either wiping out their family or killing them right when they are born. Could even possibly kidnap them to turn into Nazis too, turn possible threats into assets. They are going to need people to rule their conquered countries, why not the people who historically beat them. The Nazi higher ups would probably see some poetic justice in that, the people who nearly defeated them (did defeat them according to the information gleaned from the "laptops" left behind by the other time travelers) now serve them.

[Purple]

Unless the team of workmen they've brought over includes the entire WW2 German academia and the collected industry of the Ruhr valley they won't be advancing the confederacy much in the long run. Yes, they might be able to arm the whole thing with bolt action rifles or something. And they might be able to skip some of the trial and error involved in early weapon design. But they won't be developing advanced technology from an industrial base that just does not exist. The mines, foundries, and industry simply isn't there. Not to mention the population.

By the time they do get to a point where they can build an invasion fleet to threaten Europe, an act which by the way is a sure road toward angering the entirety of the rest of the world I can have that rest of the world waiting for them. Weight of numbers and Empire shall prevail in the end.

[Joun_Lord]

They will have the numbers and foundries and industry, they will have all of America's and possibly all of North Americas numbers and mines and junk and stuff.

The Nazis nor their Confederate lackeys are going to be content to stop at the Mason Dixon line and let a hostile nation exist at their doorstep. They will conquer the North, probably with little destruction all things considered thanks to the massive tech disparity and extreme mobility allowing them to quickly strike at the nearby heart of the Union. The Nazi's will probably lead a charge directly at DC, capture the Capital and probably the entire government and force a surrender. They are going to take over all of the United States and have all of the resources of that nation. Probably move North and South and take those countries too for "breathing room". Giving them the resources of an entire continent.

That going against the rest of the world that will not be united, will have an extreme disadvantage in technology, and whose fastest communication method takes weeks. Plenty of countries might even join the Nazi Confederacy. Certainly in the normal timeline plenty of countries were sympathetic toward the Confederacy but couldn't do much of anything thanks to the economic power of the US. More countries might join thanks to the fact a Europeon power is in charge, atleast the various states of the German Confederation and later unified Germany would be sympathetic to their fellow countrymen.

[Raw Shark]

[paraphrase of Guns of the South from memory]

"Your repeating rifles are most impressive, Mr. Rhoodie. But what I really want to talk about is how much of this "instant coffee" you can supply. Also, can you do anything about boots?" --Gen. R. E. Lee

[Purple]

They will have the numbers and foundries and industry, they will have all of America's and possibly all of North Americas numbers and mines and junk and stuff.

All this is just raw material. In terms of actual infrastructure its all just undeveloped potential. Plus they don't have the population required to make it work for decades to come. Sure they might have people. But these people are not educated professional factory workers, engineers, craftsmen etc. Not in the kind of numbers they require for a victory in the long run. And training those takes decades.

The Nazis nor their Confederate lackeys are going to be content to stop at the Mason Dixon line and let a hostile nation exist at their doorstep. They will conquer the North, probably with little destruction all things considered thanks to the massive tech disparity and extreme mobility allowing them to quickly strike at the nearby heart of the Union. The Nazi's will probably lead a charge directly at DC, capture the Capital and probably the entire government and force a surrender. They are going to take over all of the United States and have all of the resources of that nation. Probably move North and South and take those countries too for "breathing room". Giving them the resources of an entire continent.

I know all this. But we have already established that this can not be prevented as much as I'd love to. So the only thing left is damage control.

That going against the rest of the world that will not be united, will have an extreme disadvantage in technology, and whose fastest communication method takes weeks. Plenty of countries might even join the Nazi Confederacy. Certainly in the normal timeline plenty of countries were sympathetic toward the Confederacy but couldn't do much of anything thanks to the economic power of the US. More countries might join thanks to the fact a Europeon power is in charge, atleast the various states of the German Confederation and later unified Germany would be sympathetic to their fellow countrymen.

That's why my plan is to jump to Europe quickly and focus on uniting and empowering Germany. The whole point is that by the time these guys are ready to invade a proper, civilized greater Germany, new old EU or what ever else I can work up stretching from the Urals to the Portuguese coast is ready to meet them.

[Joun_Lord]

All this is just raw material. In terms of actual infrastructure its all just undeveloped potential. Plus they don't have the population required to make it work for decades to come. Sure they might have people. But these people are not educated professional factory workers, engineers, craftsmen etc. Not in the kind of numbers they require for a victory in the long run. And training those takes decades.

All that is true for the rest of the world. It was the first stages of the Industrial Revolution and industry was starting to take over even if it was under-developed. But there is still infrastructure there, still factories and people running the factories. Most of its steam powered but the Nazi's will have headstart when it comes to recognizing the potential of internal combustion engines and electric motors so they can possibly move to that stuff well before the rest of the world. They have engineers, techs, and workers who can train other engineers, techs and workers. They probably got former educated craftsmen and factory workers among the ranks of the soldiers who they can use to train more people. Plus they have a crapton of slave labor to get shit done with,

And while it will take decades to get the Nazi Confederacy to the complete tech levels of 1940s Germany they have decades. They will most likely wait until Hitlers birth before they do anything in Europe which is almost a good 3 decades. Like the original Nazis they aren't going to attack outright, they are going to spend time building their nation, building up their power and infrastructure, establishing their legitimacy, and stockpiling resources.

I know all this. But we have already established that this can not be prevented as much as I'd love to. So the only thing left is damage control.

Quite true, no way to win this with the proposed scenario. However even damage control will be hard if not impossible. The Nazis tore the rest of the world a new asshole during WWII when the tech levels were roughly similar, when the rest of the world had tanks and planes and communications, along with the US providing substantial supplies.

That's why my plan is to jump to Europe quickly and focus on uniting and empowering Germany. The whole point is that by the time these guys are ready to invade a proper, civilized greater Germany, new old EU or what ever else I can work up stretching from the Urals to the Portuguese coast is ready to meet them.

The problem with that is its going to be nearly impossible to unite Europe against the Nazi's. Most won't see the threat, they will see the Confederacy with German allies. They will have no reason to worry and will probably have every reason to no want to fuck with them. Not only because of their military power but because the Nazi's will probably be smart enough to continue the US's trade. All the manufactured goods, King Cotton, and money that the rest of the world traded with the US just now stamped with the Swastika. Economic reasons alone many won't join the fight on your side.

Most who even see the threat will see it as an "over there" problem, not something they have to worry about like Napoleon.

And Europe at the time wasn't known for being easily united anyway. Even with a vast obvious threat bearing down they might not unite, Germany probably wouldn't and there would be others with their own goals or independent aims.

You could possibly go full on brutal and try to assassinate leaders and install ones who support you but you may not even have the resources to do that. You have soldiers but regular soldiers, not commandos. Soldiers with extremely limited supplies of modern ammo. You cannot send in your 40 odd troops plus whatever Union troops you recruited to force someone to join your side as their training, numbers and equipment will be too poor to do much of anything beyond be a minor annoyance. You won't have the financial resources to do anything either. You have a bunch of textbooks and computers and whatever modern parts and tools you have left after trading them for a ride to Europe (because you will need some way to buy a ride big enough for you, your hundred people, whatever allies you are bringing plus your equipment), no cash beyond whatever now worthless American money you got, nothing much to trade beyond some parts and tools, and nobody willing to bankroll you.

But even if you manage through diplomacy or force to unite Europe and beyond against the Nazis, you still are at a extreme disadvantage. They already have an industrial town filled with engineers cranking out advanced stuff, you have some papers that says you might be able to do the same. They have already produced advanced equipment with even more advanced equipment on the way, you got whatever tools and parts you didn't have to hock for boat fare. They have possibly hundreds of trained people, you have maybe 50. They are going to be able to get to allies with primitive airplanes followed by increasingly advanced designs plus radios while you might be able to ride a boat if you got the money.

The only way to really have any chance to win is to drown the Nazis in bodies but its seems nearly impossible to get the warm bodies to do so.

[Thanas]

i don't think a Nazi confederacy will be very internally stable, not with the confederacy itself being less than unified. Most likely it will just implode and the Nazi strength getting wasted in fighting Guerillas in the North.

[Simon_Jester]

Maybe in 1864 or 1865 this could be a bit interesting but in 1861 it is just a joke. Nothing you could do with so few resource and a mere handful of modern day troops would prevent a total Union political implosion, and even if you avoided that the Germans would just keep going north burning out the economic heart of the Union until they hit Boston. At that point the Union would go bankrupt.

Yeah. There's a reason why when Harry Turtledove developed this plot with The Guns of the South back around 1995 or so, he had his time-traveling Afrikaaners arrive in or around April 1864- because by that point the Confederates were already on the brink of total defeat, with a long, brutal campaign scheduled to bring them the rest of the way there. They were losing, and they knew it, and then the rifles show up and they acquire the power to win the war.

Plus, of course, half the plot of the novel is actually about the Confederates (including a very sympathetic depiction of Robert E. Lee) realizing some of the background implications of the Afrikaaners' actions and behavior, and moving outside of their control and being turned on, followed by violent conflict between the Confederates and the Afrikaaners and the Confederacy actually committing to gradual emancipation. Which may be unrealistic or not, I don't know and frankly don't care, it makes a pretty good story.

Giving the same weapons to the Confederates of 1861, when the Union has minimal weapons and no veteran troops, isn't even interesting.

Now, what would be interesting would be if Random Alien Being actually gave us enough troops and weapons and machinery to oppose the Nazis meaningfully, so that we could make a plan. Also if the war situation was that of, oh, 1863 or '64, so that both sides have actual armies distributed among multiple theaters of operation.

[Simon_Jester]

Hmmm... you know, if the Nazis are sending time travelers to sabotage the US, wouldn't they also try to sabotage Britain or Russia? If they're attempting to do so during the 19th century, when would they do that, do you think? That might make an interesting RAR in its own right.

i don't think a Nazi confederacy will be very internally stable, not with the confederacy itself being less than unified. Most likely it will just implode and the Nazi strength getting wasted in fighting Guerillas in the North.

That assumes the Nazis don't say "my work here is done" once they've created the Confederacy and just concentrate on keeping it united and threatening to the United States. The Nazi mission here would mostly just be to remove the US as a threat in the WWII era, by giving it a Confederacy powerful enough that it has effectively nothing to spare for fighting in the WWII era. Occupying large chunks of the North outside the slave states isn't a realistic strategy and the Confederates have no real interest in doing so.