"What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by Captain Seafort »

Isolder74 wrote:If you think the British would have given back New Orleans if they'd won you are correct.
Fixed for you. Britain didn't give enough of a shit about the American continent to resume a war it had only ever regarded as an irritating distraction.

I'd like to see one of the naval actions, either the Battle of Massachusetts Bay, or the last battle of the war - the action off Sandy Hook a week after New Orleans, when USS President surrendered to HMS Endymion after a chase from dawn to dusk.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by Ziggy Stardust »

Hannibal's campaign. There are a number of ways you could go with this. You could have the bulk of the movie be his campaign through Iberia and the Rhone Valley, climaxing in the crossing of the Alps, or you could have the movie begin with the crossing of the Alps and proceeding from there.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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I think that would be better done in a series like Rome, so that you can show the two societies, the Spanish expansions and the eventual second punic war.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Another couple, more obscure stories that recently came to my attention that I think might make for good war films:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Snell

Excerpt from the page in question:
Hannah Snell was born in Worcester, England on 23 April 1723. Locals claim that she played a soldier even as a child. In 1740, she moved to London and married James Summs on 6 January 1744.

In 1746, she gave birth to a daughter, Susannah, who died a year later. When her husband deserted her, she borrowed a male suit from her brother-in-law James Gray, assumed his name, and began to search for Summs. She later learned that her husband had been executed for murder. According to her account, she joined John Guise's regiment, the 6th Regiment of Foot, in the army of the Duke of Cumberland against Bonnie Prince Charlie, and deserted when her sergeant gave her 500 lashes. However, the chronology of her life makes it very unlikely that she ever served in Guise's regiment and this part of the story is likely to have been a fabrication.

Following the death of her daughter, she moved to Portsmouth and joined the Marines. She boarded the ship Swallow at Portsmouth on 23 October 1747. The ship sailed to Lisbon on 1 November. Her unit was about to invade Mauritius, but the attack was called off. Her unit then sailed to India.

In August 1748, her unit was sent to an expedition to capture the French colony of Pondicherry in India. Later, she also fought in the battle in Devicotta in June 1749. She was wounded eleven times to the legs and once to the groin. She either managed to treat her groin wound without revealing her sex or she may have used the services of a sympathetic Indian nurse.

In 1750, her unit returned to Britain and traveled from Portsmouth to London, where she revealed her sex to her shipmates on 2 June. She petitioned the Duke of Cumberland, the head of the army, for her pension. She also sold her story to London publisher Robert Walker who published her account, The Female Soldier, in two different editions. She also began to appear on stage in her uniform presenting military drills and singing songs. Three painters painted her portrait in her uniform and The Gentleman's Magazine reported her claims. She was honorably discharged and the Royal Hospital, Chelsea officially recognized Snell's military service in November and granted her a pension in 1750 (increased in 1785), a rare thing in those days.

Hannah retired to Wapping and began to keep a pub named The Female Warrior (or The Widow in Masquerade, accounts disagree) but it did not last long. By the mid-1750s, she was living in Newbury in Berkshire. In 1759, she married Richard Eyles there, with whom she had two children. In 1772, she married Richard Habgood of Welford, also in Berkshire, and the two moved to the Midlands. In 1785, she was living with her son George Spence Eyles, a clerk, on Church Street, Stoke Newington.

In 1791 her mental condition suddenly worsened. She was admitted to Bethlem Hospital on 20 August. She died on 8 February 1792.
And one that's in the news today:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rev ... ef-n550046
Joe Medicine Crow, the respected historian of Montana's Crow Tribe and the last surviving Plains Indian war chief, died Sunday at age 102, Montana Gov. Steve Bullock said.

Big Horn County coroner Terry Bullis confirmed Medicine Crow's death in a hospice facility in Billings, NBC station KULR reported. Bullis gave no further details.

IMAGE: Barack Obama and Joseph Medicine Crow
President Barack Obama presents the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Joseph Medicine Crow at the White House in August 2009. AP
Medicine Crow, who lived most of his life on the Crow Reservation near Lodge Grass, Montana, and famously wore his war paint beneath his World War II uniform, was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Barack Obama in 2009.

"Today, Lisa and I join Montanans to pay respect and celebrate the rich life of Dr. Joe Medicine Crow," Bullock said in a statement Sunday afternoon. "Joe was a Crow War Chief, veteran, elder, historian, author, and educator. His legacy will forever serve as an inspiration for all Native Americans — and all Montanans."

Medicine Crow was the sole surviving Plains war chief, an honor that was bestowed for his heroism during World War II. To earn the honor, he had to complete four tasks, which the national newspaper Indian Country Today outlined in a 2013 profile marking Medicine Crow's 100th birthday:

He led successful war parties behind enemy lines. He stole German horses. He disarmed an enemy. And he engaged an enemy without killing him — a German soldier whom he overcame in hand-to-hand combat before sparing his life.

Historian Ken Burns told Medicine Crow's story in his 2007 documentary "The War."


After the war, Medicine Crow became the Crows' tribal historian, lecturing widely on the Battle of Little Bighorn, in which his grandfather was a scout for Gen. George Armstrong Custer.


"Today, Montana lost a treasure," said Sen. Jon Tester, D-Montana, who nominated Medicine Crow for the Medal of Freedom, the nation's highest civilian honor.

"Joe Medicine Crow was a soldier and a scholar, but above all was a fierce advocate for Native American families," Tester said in a statement. "When you spoke with Joe Medicine Crow, it was impossible not to be inspired. I know his legacy will motivate generations of Montanans to follow in his footsteps and live a life dedicated to serving other."
History and film often focus on the big battles and the political leaders. But of course, there's something to be said for the perspective of the individual soldier. These are just two interesting stories that got a bit more attention than most.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by Channel72 »

K. A. Pital wrote:The Battle of Kursk, of course. Making a film about such a huge battle (many millions of soldiers, thousands of tanks) is bound to be hard, so one has to pick a character which would simultaneously be the observing point.
That would be awesome. But the only studios with the budget for something like this are probably Hollywood studios, who can't make this movie because Americans won't understand who to root for in a battle between Communists and Nazis. Stalingrad on a Hollywood budget would be awesome as well, even though it has been done outside of Hollywood for a lower budget of approx $30m.

Then again, with China becoming a huge factor in expected revenues of American blockbusters, perhaps we'll finally get to see Hollywood make big-budget WW2 movies from a Soviet perspective.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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The 1993 German movie about Stalingrad is pretty good, especially because it hides nothing and shows the full barbarity of the battle. Especially the ending is very, very fitting.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by K. A. Pital »

There is a number of good films that were made in modern China and they are superior to Hollywood war films.

I heavily recommend watching 集结号
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_(film)

Soviet "The Liberation" is also quite good, though aged
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_(film_series)

There is no need for Hollywood any more. I found Bollywood movies like "Three Idiots" or PK funnier, far better made and deeper than most Hollywood crap nowadays, adjusting for some traditional/nationsl nuances.

Neither the German nor the modern Russian Stalingrad films are good, in my opinion. Both present a narrow vision of history - the German one explores the suffering of Nazi soldiers whom nobody invited to the depths of the USSR and the Volga, and I think explores it very narrowly, as the background to their well-deserved fate is not well explored. The modern Russian one is a stupid and visually glamorized myth with barely a shred of reality left. And don't even get me started on Enemy at the Gates.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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K. A. Pital wrote:Neither the German nor the modern Russian Stalingrad films are good, in my opinion. Both present a narrow vision of history - the German one explores the suffering of Nazi soldiers whom nobody invited to the depths of the USSR and the Volga, and I think explores it very narrowly, as the background to their well-deserved fate is not well explored.
I do not share the opinion, the movie does portray part of the Russian side, it is made quite clear the Nazis were barbaric and there are only two somewhat sympathetic Nazi characters in the movie.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by Flagg »

Well... I'm gonna kinda fuck the subject and do a 'War of The Worlds' set in post-Great War England. I just wanna see these hulking tripods with their heat rays knocking biplanes out of the sky, using the poison gas with little effect due to gas masks, and being immune to all but the heaviest artillery (minus big Bertha, think naval and shore-guns since I want to see that HMS Thunderchild scene). And at the end a "League of Nations" force launching their own, never to be explored in a sequel, attack on Mars. I'd also not have the Martians lose due to germs.

Real world? That magician guy who helped Dickhead General Montgomery beat Rommel.

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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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The Mexican war. Start off showing a bunch of US troops situated on the Rio Grande and the political tension leading up to the conflict. The war Hawks in Washington deliberately baiting the Mexicans and Santa Anna's ego which let him fall into it. Make a few veiled references to the Texas Revolution, and you've got a decent film.

Another idea would be the Franco-Prussian war and show the French having their asses handed to them, only to ominously show a rail car a few years later with representatives from the major powers handing Germany terms.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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Question for the OP, does the film have to appeal to "average" American audiences or can we do films which appeals to a smaller demographic in the manner that arthouse films do? Because there are a few things I would find amusing but I cannot imagine them appealing to a lot of Americans.

1. A Vietnam war movie where the Vietnamese, I don't know, actually win.

Yeah I know, strictly not a famous battle per se, but still related.

2. Battle of Hattin where Saladin's forces retake Jerusalem.

Show Pope Urban III having a heart attack when he hears the news and Saladin executing Raynald de Chatillon who broke the truce not to attack Muslim caravans and having the gall to justify it on the grounds that kings have acted thus.

3. The third battle of Changsha 1942

Have something along the lines showing that it will take a while for the US to mobilise the resources to go after Japan so soon after Pearl Harbor and that they want a victory over Japan. Showcase clips from allied news reels showcasing the Chinese victory.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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As a follow on from my original suggestion, I'd do a film on the Battle of Jutland, purely because there's plenty of stuff to keep people interested and I want to see big-gun battleships duking it out damnit.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by LadyTevar »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
ray245 wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Fall of Constantinople.
I second this. Byzantine is often missing from our pop culture understanding of history, and the story being told will be quite interesting. Although there's an issue with this being a rather politically charged movie, especially with Greece and Turkey. Then there is a chance this movie might end up telling people fear a Muslim invasion or something.
Yeah, it would be politically loaded right now.

I don't think there's any way to make a movie about it that wouldn't generate outrage from lots of people.

Best case scenario, endless whinging in the media. Worst case, threats and/or attacks and it gets pulled like that comedy about assassinating Kim Jong Un.

Pity, because it could make an amazing story (ideally told with an emphasis on historical accuracy, not propaganda).
Actually, while the newly formed Ottoman Empire was the final deathknell of Byzantium, the first big battle that began the topple was the Fourth Crusade, where the Venetians unsubtly urged the Crusaders to besiege Constantinople, in order to put the exiled son of a former emperor on the throne (and get rich quick as the exiled prince promised big money). Despite threats of Excommunication, the Crusaders spent three days sacking the city; raping and looting the civilians, breaking into churches and destroying religious icons and artifacts, burnt the Library, and stole everything that could be pried loose.
The exiled princeling began 57yrs of Latin Rule, with half the Empire already handed over to the Venetians. The rest of the Greek provinces started rebelling, forming their own kingdoms, and fighting not just with the Latin Imperials, but also with the Seljuk Sultanate and the Bulgarian Empire. Finally, Constantinople was recaptured by the Niceaen Greeks, but decades of warfare left Byzantium so shaky it's a wonder it took until the 1500s for the Ottoman Empire to finally kill it.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Yeah, I know it was a long decline, in which the Venetian Crusaders' pillaging played a major role.

You could probably get quite a few interesting films out of the fall of the Byzantine Empire.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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The Romulan Republic wrote:Yeah, I know it was a long decline, in which the Venetian Crusaders' pillaging played a major role.

You could probably get quite a few interesting films out of the fall of the Byzantine Empire.
Except Byzantine died as a national culture. In the sense that they couldn't be used to further nationalistic agendas. Historical epics has always been tied to nationalism in one form or another.

Byzantine is a big issue because there are few "inheritors" of Byzantine civilisation left alive today. The Turks will never acknowledge the Byzantines as a part of their cultural heritage. The Greeks might be, but they don't have the finances to fund such an epic.

Furthermore, the western world and Hollywood sees modern Greece and themselves as the inheritors of ancient Greek civilisation, NOT the Byzantines.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by K. A. Pital »

Russia won't mind claiming Byzantine heritage as the Third Rome, so you can ask them for cash.
mr friendly guy wrote:1. A Vietnam war movie where the Vietnamese, I don't know, actually win.
Liberating Saigon / Giải phóng Sài Gòn (2005) :P
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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Eternal_Freedom wrote:As a follow on from my original suggestion, I'd do a film on the Battle of Jutland, purely because there's plenty of stuff to keep people interested and I want to see big-gun battleships duking it out damnit.
Agreed. And WWI is one where you could probably show sympathy for both sides without causing too much uproar, since WWI was such a pointless cluster fuck without an obvious "good guy" side.

And on the theme of naval battles...

Well, someone already mentioned Trafalgar, I think.

But for me, I'll throw out Layette Gulf (arguably the largest naval battle ever fought) and the Falklands War (the last major naval engagement).

Naval warfare is something that seems to get largely overlooked in historical films. I can think of far more war movies that take place on land, probably even more that take place in the air, than naval war movies. As a lover of the sea and tales of ocean adventure, I'd like to see more naval war films.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by K. A. Pital »

How about showing sympathy for none in WWI since it was obviously a pointless megabloodbath caused by a few rich fuckers, filthy moneybags, who should have been sent to dig the fucking trenches themselves if they so desired war and colonies.

Fuck them all and blight on all their homes, the fuckers. Long live the revolutionaries and Red Clydeside.

In fact a movie about Red Clydeside would be a picture I'd wanna see.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Well, I was thinking more in terms of the ordinary soldiers, not the leadership when I mentioned sympathy, though I see how my choice of words was unclear.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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Go watch "The Great War" on YouTube with Indy Nidel. It goes week by week 100 years apart from the events that happened.

I'd watch a movie on the complex scheming and political egotism on display leading up to war, among all sides. That or the giant mess that the Schlieffen plan became.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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Baffalo wrote:Go watch "The Great War" on YouTube with Indy Nidel. It goes week by week 100 years apart from the events that happened.

I'd watch a movie on the complex scheming and political egotism on display leading up to war, among all sides. That or the giant mess that the Schlieffen plan became.

Fall of eagles deals with that, but I have not watched it so far and thus cannot speak to its quality.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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[quote="K. A. Pital"]Russia won't mind claiming Byzantine heritage as the Third Rome, so you can ask them for cash./quote]

Well given they've had other historical epics to talk about, any Byzantine story would come after Russian stories.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Eternal_Freedom wrote:As a follow on from my original suggestion, I'd do a film on the Battle of Jutland, purely because there's plenty of stuff to keep people interested and I want to see big-gun battleships duking it out damnit.
Agreed. And WWI is one where you could probably show sympathy for both sides without causing too much uproar, since WWI was such a pointless cluster fuck without an obvious "good guy" side.

And on the theme of naval battles...

Well, someone already mentioned Trafalgar, I think.

But for me, I'll throw out Layette Gulf (arguably the largest naval battle ever fought) and the Falklands War (the last major naval engagement).

Naval warfare is something that seems to get largely overlooked in historical films. I can think of far more war movies that take place on land, probably even more that take place in the air, than naval war movies. As a lover of the sea and tales of ocean adventure, I'd like to see more naval war films.
Trafalgar was my original suggestion :)

The advantage of Jutland is you have all the complex lead-in stuff; breaking the German naval codes for instance, the various attempts to lure part of the Grand Fleet to it's destruction, the conflict betweent he cautious Jellicoe and the headstrong (and reckless) Beatty. And that's just on the British side. Show how the Germans were much better at communicating vital information (like where the enemy was) but that this still doesnt balance out a 3.5:2 ratio of dreadnoughts.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

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What is the Layette Gulf? Never heard of such a battle.
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Re: "What war/battle movie would YOU make?"

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I think he meant Leyte Gulf.
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