Logical aftermath of TFA

[Rhadamantus]

there's a limit how heavily you can militarize before you hit the limit of your logistical capabilities and the quality of your forces starts to suffer, it doesn't matter if you got 1000 start destroyers per system if bulk of them are held together with ducktape and prayers because you can make spare parts to fix them.

A logical way to keep the Republic out of the picture would be to say that loss of upper levels of Republic hierarchy has caused a political turmoil that is preventing the Republic for mounting an effective counter attack to the First Order. This doesn't assume that Republic fleet was destroyed at Hosnia but at same time does explain why they aren't crushing the First Order.

In our own history, the US had a 12:1 industrial advantage over Japan, and yet Japan had more ships than it for the first six months of the war.

[Elheru Aran]

In our own history, the US had a 12:1 industrial advantage over Japan, and yet Japan had more ships than it for the first six months of the war.

OK, now I just really have to ask for a citation needed...

Also: Six months. Is really not that much time. Consider that in the space of that time, the Battle of the Coral Sea also happened. Check out the 'Casualties and Losses' section on Wikipedia-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Coral_Sea (see sidebar at right)

The US has the edge in damage inflicted. And shortly after the Coral Sea, they devastated the Japanese forces at the Battle of Midway. After that point, the Japanese never had the edge again.

[Rhadamantus]

It was combinedfleet Warmaking capacity, and in a universe where you can anywhere in a day, 6 months is a while.

[NecronLord]

The Old Republic, however, relied on the Jedi and their Order no longer exists. Besides, if galactic history in the new EU is anything like it was in the old EU, Jedi failures were responsible for some of the bloodiest wars during those thousand generations.

I'd love to see the story go in a new direction, wherein the good guys (including Luke) agree to establish a new government that no longer requires the Jedi for its endurance. It could be what the Empire should have been were it not secretly ruled by an evil Sith Lord and his fiendish cronies.

That doesn't mean the Jedi should disappear. Not at all. In fact, nothing would make me happier than to see them become an order of wandering heroes who maintain peace and order through good deeds irrespective of the whims of politicians. So instead of leaving slaves to their miserable existence on backwaters like Tatooine, the new Jedi would liberate them.

Well the polemic's neat. Personally my preferred option is that the majority of the Imperial forces defect after the fall of the Empire to a reassembled Imperial Senate with the support of the saner Moffs, and there's a truth and reconciliation commission and the whole affair of 'Palpatine the Archtraitor' comes out and the First Galactic Empire is re-organized into the Second Republic, with only a few scattered nutbags *cough* First Order *cough* really resisting.

It's not really what any version of the sequels, EU or Disney, will go with though. Because it's pretty boring I suppose.

Neither is your constitutional monarchy going to last any better though. New Republics, Constitutional Empires like the Roan Fel one, they'll all crash and burn because Star Wars works best when the bad guys are mighty and bestride the galaxy.

[Galvatron]

Well the polemic's neat. Personally my preferred option is that the majority of the Imperial forces defect after the fall of the Empire to a reassembled Imperial Senate with the support of the saner Moffs, and there's a truth and reconciliation commission and the whole affair of 'Palpatine the Archtraitor' comes out and the First Galactic Empire is re-organized into the Second Republic, with only a few scattered nutbags *cough* First Order *cough* really resisting.

It's not really what any version of the sequels, EU or Disney, will go with though. Because it's pretty boring I suppose.

I'd have preferred that as well, but it's too late now.

Neither is your constitutional monarchy going to last any better though. New Republics, Constitutional Empires like the Roan Fel one, they'll all crash and burn because Star Wars works best when the bad guys are mighty and bestride the galaxy.

Well, Episode IX is going to have to give us some sort of conclusive, upbeat ending unless Disney commits to making more episodes indefinitely. Simply restoring the Republic again won't cut it, IMO.

Besides, Star Wars has shown or us that the most prosperous and peaceful worlds are monarchies, like Naboo and Alderaan. It seems to me that emulating those societies on a galactic scale would be something to aspire to.

[Lord Revan]

Aldreraan and Naboo seem to be constitutional monarchies (Naboo is an elective one as well) but in legendaries Corellia is sort of republic IIRC.

[Galvatron]

Have we ever seen Corellia in the new EU? The way Han talks about the Empire's "big Corellian ships" in ANH, I wonder why the old EU (and now the new) chose to invent Kuat Drive Yards as the primary supplier of their warships. Corellia, IMO, should be a massively industrialized ecumenopolis with gigantic orbital shipyards. In fact, I picture it looking a lot like this:

[Simon_Jester]

I actually liked the EU concept that Corellia proper was a garden world but was surrounded by massive orbital infrastructure (like what you portray).

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Aldreraan and Naboo seem to be constitutional monarchies (Naboo is an elective one as well) but in legendaries Corellia is sort of republic IIRC.

In the former EU, Corellia was portrayed as an oligarchic dictatorship, kinda, sorta.

[Lord Revan]

Aldreraan and Naboo seem to be constitutional monarchies (Naboo is an elective one as well) but in legendaries Corellia is sort of republic IIRC.

In the former EU, Corellia was portrayed as an oligarchic dictatorship, kinda, sorta.

still republican goverment form (as in it was a republic, not that it was goverment out the GOP wet dreams) even if dictatorial and prosperous, also wasn't Garm Bel Iblis in the Clone Wars CGI series?

I mean the Roman Republic was an oligarchic dictatorship and they invented the term "republic" (from Latin Res Publica was "public matter")

[U.P. Cinnabar]

also wasn't Garm Bel Iblis in the Clone Wars CGI series?

I mean the Roman Republic was an oligarchic dictatorship and they invented the term "republic" (from Latin Res Publica was "public matter")

Conceded. And, I think bel Iblis was in Clone Wars, interacting with Ashoka, but, don't quote me.

[Knife]

I would think it would be more interesting and more thematic if the Republic and the remnant Empire decide to do a reconciliation and gang up on a rogue First Order after the FO wiped out the NR capital. It would represent the healing and unionization of the galaxy against the evil of the ideals of the Empire and Sith.

Imagine the sight of an ISD and Mon Cal ship fighting against the new star destroyers.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

I would think it would be more interesting and more thematic if the Republic and the remnant Empire decide to do a reconciliation and gang up on a rogue First Order after the FO wiped out the NR capital. It would represent the healing and unionization of the galaxy against the evil of the ideals of the Empire and Sith.

Imagine the sight of an ISD and Mon Cal ship fighting against the new star destroyers.

That would actually make sense, and not just because I'd like to see Gilad Pelleaon make it to the new canon. Whoever takes over from Abrams could make a long, difficult, but ultimately fruitful diplomatic mission to the Empire an essential part of Episode VIII. A white man can dream, can't he?

[Lord Revan]

I would think it would be more interesting and more thematic if the Republic and the remnant Empire decide to do a reconciliation and gang up on a rogue First Order after the FO wiped out the NR capital. It would represent the healing and unionization of the galaxy against the evil of the ideals of the Empire and Sith.

Imagine the sight of an ISD and Mon Cal ship fighting against the new star destroyers.

I would have that happen at (end of) episode 9 kind of like the Geonosis Arena. With hints dropped thru out episode 8 and possibly 9 that the Republic was building up a force to counter the First Order and our heroes have distract Snoke unil that force is ready to strike. Then have it so that just as it seems the Resistance is about to be wiped out by the First Order the combinied Imperial/republic fleet jumps in behind the FO ships and starts to hammer them saving our heroes, bit cliche I'll admit but if the foreshadowing is done well enough you'll get a sense that there's a plan to defeat the First Order but there's still a sense of risk to our heroes.

[Knife]

Indeed Revan. The set up would have to be good, but the pay off would be rewarding.

[Galvatron]

I actually liked the EU concept that Corellia proper was a garden world but was surrounded by massive orbital infrastructure (like what you portray).

Either way, it still baffles me that for all these years, no EU writer has ever expanded upon Han's comment about the Empire's "big Corellian ships."

However, they decided for some reason that both Han and his ship are Corellian. Was that established in the script or novelization?

Anyway, I prefer the idea that the most populous planets in the galaxy are ecumenopolises like Taris, Nar Shadaa and Coruscant (or at least heavily urbanized).

[Simon_Jester]

I like the idea that major industrialized systems are ecumenopoli, with one or two remarkable exceptions. Corellia was one of them in the old EU, so I favor keeping that. Also, the idea that the overwhelming majority of the population actually lives in space helps explain their reputation as shipwrights and pilots.

[Adam Reynolds]

I wonder what the actual population density in Star Wars is at a galactic scale?

I have often argued in favor of population minimalism, that the overwhelming majority of worlds in the galaxy are massively underpopulated relative to what they could be. This justifies the need for both clones and droids in the Clone Wars, the galaxy doesn't actually have a large enough population to sustain a serious military conflict.

I actually suspect that worlds with a population density near Earth's are the least common. It is either massively larger or smaller. In the Star Wars Atlas, I recall most worlds were described as either millions or tends of billions. Some were obviously much smaller. Tatooine had only 200,000.

I also wonder just how dense the population of something like Coruscant is? While it is undoubtedly more densely populated than Earth, are we talking about something on the level of South Korea or Singapore, or perhaps even more dense? The light density that we see would indicate the former, though it is of course possible that lighting in Star Wars is more directional and thus less of it radiates into space.

[Rhadamantus]

Scaling from Volume and reasonable population density per m^3, Coruscant has a quadrillion (10^15, or a million billion) people

[Lord Revan]

Realistically Corusant's population is "high but unknown" there's most likely so much unregistered resigents at lower parts of Corusant that estimated of the total population are rather rough at best of times

[Adam Reynolds]

Scaling from Volume and reasonable population density per m^3, Coruscant has a quadrillion (10^15, or a million billion) people

What is a reasonable population density? That was my point. How do we know that the entire planet is pure city with a density equivalent to a taller Manhattan or Hong Kong? The light from Coruscant at night is much lower than this would suggest. It would suggest a population density vastly lower than a metropolis on Earth.

One possibility is that there are things like massive vertical farms in some of those towers, tended by droids. It would prevent them from needing to import all of their food. There are also industrial areas as shown in the end of AOTC, with a low enough population density in that region that Dooku was able to land without being noticed, despite the fact that he had previously flown out of Geonosis in a rather distinctive ship.

It was also a tower deserted enough that Palpatine was able to go back and forth between it and the capital without notice.

[Galvatron]

Scaling from Volume and reasonable population density per m^3, Coruscant has a quadrillion (10^15, or a million billion) people

What is a reasonable population density?

I believe 100 trillion was once suggested as a "reasonable" population that even the most conservative minimalist should expect for an ecumenopolis like Coruscant.