Game of Thrones Season 6 [Discussion of most-recently aired episodes]

[Elfdart]

Ten minutes to kickoff.

I'm going to laugh my ass off if Jon Snow really is dead.

[Guardsman Bass]

Good starter episode, for the most part. It's rare that I'm annoyed with the stuff happening elsewhere and just want to get back to the Wall storyline, but this one was different. Lots of good set-up for stuff to happen in the next couple of episodes.

I notice no reviews are out after the show. Doesn't surprise me, not after they gave advance screenings of the first four episodes of Season 5 to critics, and some shitstain leaked the whole thing in torrent form.

This is really weird, not having advance book knowledge to give me an idea of what was going to happen generally even in spite of the show's changes. It's going to be fun seeing what happens in common between the show and the book when the latter is released.
Spoiler

I would not be surprised if the whole "Melisandre is actually old but using magic to conceal it" shows up in the book when it comes out. It's an odd way to end the episode, because aside from that she doesn't really do anything except set up that Jon will probably be resurrected and end up at Winterfell fighting the Others.

No idea where Arya is headed. Sansa & Team are presumably going to meet up with the wildlings, storm Castle Black in time for Jon to be resurrected, and then all have to flee south to Winterfell when the Wall collapses.

No sightings of Sam.

Tommen's going to die at some point, and it feels pretty telegraphed to me. Cersei is going to send Gregorstein after Margaery, the Tyrells, and the High Septon, and they'll go down - but Tommen will be killed by accident in the process.

[Guardsman Bass]

Should have watched the "Inside" feature after the episode:
Spoiler

Confirmation from GRRM himself early on that Melisandre is several centuries old, although it's not clear whether he ever intended to show it. It wouldn't be the first time that there were sorcerers kept alive and ancient, considering the House of the Undying.

[Simon_Jester]

I find this vaguely disappointing somehow; I'd always liked the idea that Melisandre was older than she looks but not vastly older than human, more like "actually eighty" or even "actually a hundred and fifty," as opposed to some unthinkably long span of time like four hundred.

But then, I'm mostly a books guy.

[RogueIce]

I enjoyed it. It plays like quite a few of the season premieres: we're catching up on the aftermath of the previous finale and setting into motion the plotlines that will come to be. So yeah, "not a lot happened" but I don't expect it to; that's what the next nine episodes are for. This is, essentially, a prelude - and it more than adequately did the job of getting me excited to see what happens next.

[General Zod]

I was a little underwhelmed. I also feel like I missed some stuff from last season.

[The Vortex Empire]

Season 5 was enough for me to give up any confidence in the show, this episode did not restore it.

[Patroklos]

They quite obviously rushed one of the story lines out the door. Given the TV series tends to deleteor coming characters they don't intend to do anything with to save screen time the fact that they so hurriedly rushed those two out the door after so many establishing episodes last season makes me think that was an unplanned for change. Gotta free up some running time for whatever they have in store for us.

[NeoGoomba]

Haven't caught it yet, but Spoiler

I'm looking forward to a Gregorstein vs. Hound Reborn showdown at some point, myself.

[Vympel]

Ten minutes to kickoff.

I'm going to laugh my ass off if Jon Snow really is dead.

Of course he's really dead. The right question is whether he's coming back to life - which of course he is, IMO. I have no special knowledge on that though.

Ok, thoughts:

- My favorite part of the episode was everything in the North. The Wall, Winterfell & outskirts - I liked it all. Ser Davos really is the heart of the show for me right now, and I love every scene he's in. Great writing / comedic bits, especially Dolorous Edd being their last hope.
- Alliser Thorne knocks it out of the park in justifying himself, especially given the poor material he had to work with.
- You know, I thought I'd be more angry that Brienne saves the day given she abandoned her post in Season 5, but fuck it I liked the scene, the good guys deserve a win, so I'm just gonna fistpump and move on.
- The runner up is - surprisingly for me - Dany's scenes. Khal Moro's banter with his wives and bloodriders is simply the best Dothraki stuff we've ever gotten on the show, and an amusing and clever riff on both Conan the Barbarian and Monty Python's the Spanish Inquisition sketch.
- I liked Arya's scene, but then I've always liked her Braavos scene. Special mention goes to the emphasis on her using her ears to listen.
- Serviceable scenes that serve to remind viewers of the state of play: Jaime & Cersei, the High Sparrow & Margaergy, Tyrion and Varys.
- Now for the bad:

Dorne, oh Dorne. You're so fucking shit. What an unmitigated disaster of writing.
Spoiler

The fact that Doran and Trystane are murdered leaked early, and I've pretty much gotten all my bile out already. Its such a waste of Alexander Siddig, such terrible writing - we're expected to believe that Oberyn's children are basically kinslaying psychopaths - can you imagine if he was still alive, what he would do to these fucking monsters who murder his brother and nephew? He'd fillet them. And what the hell is their plan? The Prince of Dorne's brother's fucking bastard-born girlfriend is going to rule Dorne? Is that it? What utter rubbish.

EDIT: what does no spoilers mean in this context? Because putting everything in spoiler tags is gonna be kinda redundant. Lemme know.

And why the fuck don't my spoiler tags even work? I have to edit/quote my own post to read it.

[Elfdart]

I just realized that unless someone has seen the future episodes, there can't really be any spoilers. So the "no spoilers" tag is not needed.

Anyway, Dorne is a dumpster fire. I was right in the Season 5 thread that Ellaria would have to kill her brother-in-law and Prince So-and-so. I just want to know how the fuck two of the Sand Snakes standing on the pier when the ship sailed got on board to kill the prince in King's Landing. And why would Jamie leave him on the boat (afraid Cersei would kill him in revenge for her daughter?). I'd also like to know how the third (the one who poisoned Bronn, then flashed her perky tits) was allowed to get anywhere near the chief guard's back. And where the fuck is Bronn while we're at it?

One more thing: I take it the horses and hounds used to track Sansa were just holograms projected by the leader of the hunt. I mean, the instant he gets killed they vanish.

[Kingmaker]

I was actually pretty on board with the rest of the episode, though there were a few oddities (Ramsay's disappearing dogs, Tyrion and Varys talking about how people are being murdered in the streets... while strolling around with no guards), but the Dornish bit is shit. What the actual fuck?

Even granting that Ellaria's character has been pretty thoroughly derailed, this is just bizarre. What the fuck is her plan? Dorne isn't exactly run by Klingons, so it's not like she can take over. Of course, she probably will, because writer fiat, but it will be dumb. It honestly would've made more sense if she'd just been like "Yo dawg, the Lannisters think you killed Myrcella, so now you're at war with them whether you like it or not." And, as Vympel noted, kinslaying is supposed to be one of the biggest taboos in Westeros. On a side note, the Sand Snakes continue to be a writing embarrassment, to the point where I feel bad for the actresses.

edit: I assumed the continuity guys were fired to save money. Budget cuts, etc...

[Vympel]

I just realized that unless someone has seen the future episodes, there can't really be any spoilers. So the "no spoilers" tag is not needed.

Anyway, Dorne is a dumpster fire. I was right in the Season 5 thread that Ellaria would have to kill her brother-in-law and Prince So-and-so. I just want to know how the fuck two of the Sand Snakes standing on the pier when the ship sailed got on board to kill the prince in King's Landing. And why would Jamie leave him on the boat (afraid Cersei would kill him in revenge for her daughter?). I'd also like to know how the third (the one who poisoned Bronn, then flashed her perky tits) was allowed to get anywhere near the chief guard's back. And where the fuck is Bronn while we're at it?

One more thing: I take it the horses and hounds used to track Sansa were just holograms projected by the leader of the hunt. I mean, the instant he gets killed they vanish.

I think the other two Sand Psychos used a jetpack or something, because that made no fucking sense - along with the rest of the Dorne related plot. In addition, the writing re: Trystane being on that boat was so sloppy they had to explain it on the goddamn website:



Really, the entire Dorne story-arc is irredeemable. It seems like the writers realise they shit the bed in Season 5 and just wanted to dispose if it, so they killed everyone off and hope everybody forgets about it. I really hope we see no more of it this season.

[Guardsman Bass]

I assume they're going with "Dorne is in an uproar still, the Sand Snakes are just channeling it" type of thing. At least it gives the Dornish Arc something to do, rather than just be an incredibly expensive and overly convoluted way of killing off Myrcella. At some point they're going to ally with Daenerys, take King's Landing, and then be headed north at the end of the season.

To me, the Tyrion parts felt more annoying (although the joke with the baby was funny). We know he's either going to die or re-unite with Daenerys along with the remaining two dragons during this season, so Mereen is just a waiting room until he gets a move-on (or until the newly cast Ironborn whom we've seen very little of for at least a season or two show up).

[Iroscato]

Spoiler

Loved the first episode, though I agree the Dorne arc continues to be a near-total misfire. Favourite scene was Cersei/Jaime - the entire thing was beautifully acted, including Cersei's look of joy slowly crumbling into despair.

[Vympel]

*snip*

Note we're not doing the no spoiler thing anymore because its redundant given we're past the books.

[TheFeniX]

Man, you all beat me to it. I went to bed so annoyed at the Dorne arc. I can understand any Dorne character being stupid, because they have established that being a moron is a requirement to living there. But Jamie doesn't turn the boat around immediately after his daughter starts hemorrhaging blood out of her nose? "Nah, we got better doctors in King's Landing!" And magical teleporting Sand Snakes. Jesus Christ calling the writing amateur is an insult because amateurs can usually keep track of what's going on. This is some "No John, you are the demons!" levels of garbage, but at least that kid could hold together a narrative.

This world is too down with murdering of it's leaders. Yes, Snow let the wildlings in. Let's murder him and have the guy at the front of it be the one who has had it in for Snow from day 1 and made it no secret he wanted him dead from day 2. And then be all "we hads to do it guyz!" There's white-walkers beating at the door and the Wildlings have to know Allister is coming for them. I asked this a while back: why is anyone still at Castle Black? What do they have to fear by deserting? Death?

They could have used this opportunity to bring up something like "Snow killed Qhorin for the good of the Watch. We killed Snow for the good of the Watch." But the writing as it stood was carried because Teale knows what he's doing. The writers.... pfft.

[Patroklos]

I vaguely remember the season finale, but would it have been too hard to just say the sand snakes were accompanying the prince as body guards as a ploy to get in position to carry out their assassination? The fact that they did not do that further proves in my eyes that this plot twist was not planned for and is being shoehorned in. Also the almost cursory way Hotah gets taken out. That was an opportunity for a decent fight scene but he just gets stabbed in the back and slumps over. A sand snake being able to sneak up on Hotah is especially infuriating for book readers.

Also Sansa appears to be getting the setup as the Stark successor. So are wthe show just going to forget about Rickon?

[ray245]

I vaguely remember the season finale, but would it have been too hard to just say the sand snakes were accompanying the prince as body guards as a ploy to get in position to carry out their assassination? The fact that they did not do that further proves in my eyes that this plot twist was not planned for and is being shoehorned in. Also the almost cursory way Hotah gets taken out. That was an opportunity for a decent fight scene but he just gets stabbed in the back and slumps over. A sand snake being able to sneak up on Hotah is especially infuriating for book readers.

Also Sansa appears to be getting the setup as the Stark successor. So are wthe show just going to forget about Rickon?

The actor playing Rickon is back, so maybe we will see him again in some form.

As for the Dorne plot, it seems like the writers are trying to advance the plot as soon as possible. The reason it felt so forced was probably because they wanted to finish a plot that would require an entire season in one episode.

With the writers saying they wanted to end the entire series by season 8, I am not surprised if we see even more rushed plot in this season.

[Crown]

Showrunners: HA-HA bookreaders, you like Dorian Martell in the books? Open wide while we shit in your mouth! Ha-ha!

Jesus.

EDIT :: Sansa better be the Lady Stoneheart character arc now. She needs it.

[TheFeniX]

As for the Dorne plot, it seems like the writers are trying to advance the plot as soon as possible. The reason it felt so forced was probably because they wanted to finish a plot that would require an entire season in one episode.

The whole Dorne plot was being rushed from the start, at least from what I can tell. The problem isn't that. I can deal with that. I can't deal with "shit literally makes no sense but keeps happening." Characters are just allowing shit to happen. Even though Myrcella dies of super-poison from lip contact (when blood contact took hours to take effect and with zero outside symptoms), Jamie doesn't call for help and maybe Bronn is like "Hey man, one of those super-ninja chicks totally did that shit to me, we should go back and beat an antidote out of them." No, instead: Stay the Course!

I get Jamie isn't all captain badass anymore, but this shit was insulting to the viewer. And the sand snakes mystical ninja powers ending up in KL to kill Doran's son (because he is weak, ha, oh man)..... I get Cersei is all cowed, but you think no one else in KL is going to drag everyone off that boat for a beating after the sister of the king was murdered?

No, I would have preferred them just playing the old Chapelle "Wrap that shit up!" skit for 5 minutes because at least I could have a chuckle.

[Elfdart]

Once again, Game of Boners is still the best GoT recap there is:

No, not that Dorn. Although I bet he won’t miss Dr. Bashir, either.

[ray245]

As for the Dorne plot, it seems like the writers are trying to advance the plot as soon as possible. The reason it felt so forced was probably because they wanted to finish a plot that would require an entire season in one episode.

The whole Dorne plot was being rushed from the start, at least from what I can tell. The problem isn't that. I can deal with that. I can't deal with "shit literally makes no sense but keeps happening." Characters are just allowing shit to happen. Even though Myrcella dies of super-poison from lip contact (when blood contact took hours to take effect and with zero outside symptoms), Jamie doesn't call for help and maybe Bronn is like "Hey man, one of those super-ninja chicks totally did that shit to me, we should go back and beat an antidote out of them." No, instead: Stay the Course!

I get Jamie isn't all captain badass anymore, but this shit was insulting to the viewer. And the sand snakes mystical ninja powers ending up in KL to kill Doran's son (because he is weak, ha, oh man)..... I get Cersei is all cowed, but you think no one else in KL is going to drag everyone off that boat for a beating after the sister of the king was murdered?

No, I would have preferred them just playing the old Chapelle "Wrap that shit up!" skit for 5 minutes because at least I could have a chuckle.

It seems like the writers really just want to get the whole Dorne subplot out of the way as quickly as possible. They literally do not care about how they execute the plot as long as they are able to give us a scene of Doran being killed off by this episode.

[TheFeniX]

It seems like the writers really just want to get the whole Dorne subplot out of the way as quickly as possible. They literally do not care about how they execute the plot as long as they are able to give us a scene of Doran being killed off by this episode.

Honestly, ignoring it would have been better than this "My planet needs me, I must go. *Doran died on the way back to his planet" bullshit they pulled. Who the Hell is Elaria? A bastard who had kids with Oberyn. I get Dornies don't take a dump on bastards, but her whole shtick is that people are mad at Doran not protecting his own family... somehow. And so the obvious solution is to.... kill him and his innocent son and another innocent in order to start a war. And "the people" support her because she said so. People are mad enough about some woman they probably never met getting raped and their super-cool ninja heir getting crushed by the Mountain in honorable combat to go to war. But hey, murder our king and his son, no big deal? He was crippled anyway, no loss? His son was trying to score hot Lannister booty? String him up?

If anything, people care more about stability and not starving. For Dornies, it seems to be fighting and fucking, but probably not dieing for stupid shit. So, why am I supposed to buy Elaria's claim about them wanting to start a war over the trists of the nobles? Because the writers say so, that's why. Dorne looks to be doing quite well econmomically, at least from what little we've been shown. They dodged almost all the bullshit from the war and pillaging. Are they that bloodthirsty for a fight to put a Dornish person on the iron throne? Who the fuck can they even put there now?

This actually pisses me off more. What I loved about early GoT was the unreliable narrators. You couldn't take anything said for granted, with the exception of Ned Stark and even he worked off bad or incomplete information. The peasants in KLs used to be their own "character." Now, we're supposed to take Elaria at her word that her and 3 chicks in low-cut halter-tops can commit regicide and kinslaying with no repercussions. Littlefinger must be fucking pissed. He's been working the long game for years to off a few kings and his competition. If so much as a shred of evidence comes to light on 1/100000th of what he's done: he's a dead man. Meanwhile, Elaria gets to skate by with writers fiat. Littlefinger should have setup shop in Dorne. He'd be running the joint in a week because the place is populated by people to dumb to even live on Plant Spengo.

Anyways, the writers want to use characters to relay to us concrete details of the plot, only showing us the payoff, which to the former they've setup to be worthless in earlier seasons. There's never been anyone besides Elaria (that I can recall) talking about how Doran is incompetent. No peasants on the streets rioting, not even any graffiti on walls for Christ's sake. And it's not like Elaria should be trusted in any capacity, by other characters or the audience. She's a kinslayer and child-murderer and she buys into her own warped view-point on how scenes we actually watched went down by believing Oberyn was somehow "murdered."

[Vympel]

Once again, Game of Boners is still the best GoT recap there is:

No, not that Dorn. Although I bet he won’t miss Dr. Bashir, either.

I think Den of Geek was good on how bad Dorne was:

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/game-of-thro ... -red-woman

But in striking contrast to all these tantalizing questions, there was a thudding sound heard nationwide when Game of Thrones cut back to Dorne. Unquestionably the weak, weak, weakest link of season 5, the Dornish subplots already promise to be an albatross around season 6’s neck as well. Of course, I will give the series some credit since I expected Prince Doran to kill Ellaria Sand at the beginning of this season instead of the other way around. But either way, it was still dippy and feels like an absolute waste of an actor of Alexander Siddig’s talents—forced to just grimace from a chair for a few scenes. It also is distractingly ridiculous to believe that every single one of Doran’s bodyguards besides his personal favorite wanted him dead. Poor writing shortcuts are still poor.

Worse still were the scenes of the other two Sand Snakes murdering Doran’s son, Tyrstane Martell. First of all, Trystane was doomed the second that Ellaria murdered Myrcella Baratheon while he was still aboard Jaime’s ship. Obviously, Cersei would answer blood with blood. So, why have the Sand Snakes kill him?

Presumably, it is meant to make the Sand Snakes seem more dangerous after last year’s clunky misuse. However, seeing Cersei exact her revenge on an innocent young man would have been far more satisfying narratively—as well as instantly make us question our sympathy for her, as she again proved to be just as ruthless and uncaring about who dies as ever. But nope, we are given a scene that makes absolutely no sense. After all, Jaime’s ship arrived in King’s Landing the day before this murder, and yet Trystane was left aboard? Either a royal hostage of immense importance for a war brewing between the Houses Lannister and Martell or a scapegoat for Cersei’s fury is left on a ship and not protected deep within the Black Cells of the Red Keep?! What?!

And just as preposterous is the idea that the Sand Snakes could reach King’s Landing and Jaime’s ship without being noticed, particularly after the death of Myrcella made Trystane the highest of Lannister prizes. Unless, we are to believe the stowed away on the ship or about a week without Jaime, Bronn, or anyone else noticing. No matter the answer, it is simply bad storytelling at the excuse of trying to redeem the Sand Snakes and Dornish intrigue as something worth our time. Better luck with all of that next week…