Theoretical Imperial Order of Battle

[biostem]

The Empire had 3 ISDs chasing the Millennium Falcon off Tatooine. That would be like the US Navy using nothing but the Burke class to blockade smuggling ships when the smaller and faster LCS would not only be a better use of resources but would also be more effective as it is faster.

Given the circumstances, we have no reason to believe that this was a normal operation - them being suspected of possessing the Death Star plans and all that. I'm not necessarily arguing that ISDs do appear to be the Empire's go-to vessel, but that this isn't a typical police action or patrol.

[Simon_Jester]

It may well be that the ISD is the ubiquitous capital ship 'backbone' of the Imperial fleet, with only a tiny minority of heavy ships of other classes. Think about it. The ISD has firepower adequate to overwhelm anything except a well fortified world all by itself, is capable of landing a couple of divisions of troops with heavy armor support, and carries enough small craft to singlehandedly do a fairly good job of patrolling the skies over a world. It's certainly big enough to do most of the jobs the Empire needs a lone capital ship for. Not all, but most.

There is room for only a modest number of ships larger than that- mainly to be kept in reserve as a threat against fortified worlds ("dreadnoughts" that can breach planetary shields, in other words).

So rather than seeing hosts of 'cruisers' and 'battleships' that make the ISD look like a petty 'destroyer,' it may well be more economical to build very few heavier ships, and just send multiple ISDs to cope with anything one cannot handle. During the Clone Wars this would have been riskier, but nowadays the Empire has no enemy capable of building a large core of truly heavy capital ships (i.e. things in the weight class of the Executor).

Similarly, the ISD's multirole capability means that any variant class much different from it will be less flexible and less useful. A Tector, which by all appearances has no small craft bay, probably cannot land large troop forces or support its own fighter contingent. Sure, leaving out the hangar makes it tougher physically... but now all it can do is blast things with turbolasers. It is therefore only useful when you specifically want to blow up an enemy ship so powerful that an ISD would have trouble with it. There just aren't that many things in the galaxy that match this description.

The classes most likely to be in demand for the Empire would be a 'light destroyer' that does everything the ISD does but smaller and on a cheaper scale... and some kind of 'carrier' that has an even greater emphasis on small craft, troop capability, or both. The Victory and (holdover) Venator classes fill those roles admirably.

But Venators are inferior to ISDs in almost every respect but fighter power, so they may well be getting replaced in service by ISDs for the sake of uniformity. And Victories, frankly, look so much like ISDs that a navy made of a mix of the two types will be indistinguishable visually from an all-ISD fleet.

Hilariously given the actual usn today I think it would be more likely to have 3 Burke's chasing pirates than 3 LCSs...

True, but if the USN had a hundred LCS hulls lying around, they wouldn't be using Burkes to chase pirates. In the analogy of this hypothetical force structure they have that.

Debateable. For example, LCS is always going to be a fairly lightly armed platform, and one which (in most configurations) lacks air and missile defense. Can you risk sending them up against someone who might actually have antiship missiles?

Or, by analogy- we know the Rebellion has ships of fairly respectable size, at least a few of them. Plus forces of hyper-capable fighters that can go anywhere in the galaxy in a fairly short time. What would happen if Vader and Tarkin entrusted a frigate to chase down Leia, and she called for help and three or four squadrons of Y-Wings showed up and torpedoes the frigate to pieces? Or if the Rebels simply have a frigate of their own, which can't beat the Imperial ship but can tie it up in combat long enough for Leia to get away?

By sending a ship that they know has enough firepower to take on anything the Rebellion has, they eliminate a good deal of risk. Smaller ships might be used for less strategically critical pursuits.

[eMeM]

It doesn't seem too far fetched that they'd strip off all the "dressing", ditch all the extra machinery and mass for the gunner, and just fix the top guns forward...

Rebel Y-wings are indeed very similar to the Clone Wars ones:

the overall shape is almost identical, but the engines and weaponry (both the turret and main cannons) are completely different, I think it is also safe to assume that there were some internal changes.

Also, Arquitens-class IS a Clone Wars era design

@smaller Imperial ships
In Rebels we see a lot of Gozanti class "cruisers" (I guess "cruiser" is in the name for psychological effect, it's a 60-something meters long partol craft) being used in "police duties", and main troublemakers in the system, Hera & co, use VCX-100 freighter, considerably larger and more dangerous than YT-1300. Ghost doesn't even run into Arquitens-class on a regular basis, usually when we see those frigates they are dispatched agains the Phoenix Group which consists of A-wings, CR-90s, Hammerheads and a QuasarFire-class carrier (another smaller than ISD Imperial design!).
ISDs chasing Han's Falcon most definitely is not an accurate representation of how the Imperial Navy operates.

[NecronLord]

What would happen if Vader and Tarkin entrusted a frigate to chase down Leia, and she called for help and three or four squadrons of Y-Wings showed up and torpedoes the frigate to pieces?

Or a superlaser equipped B-wing.



Even includes small imperial ships vs rebel blockade runners. Note how the blockade runners seem to resist frigate firepower without too much difficulty.

Those are 'light cruisers' which overlap a bit with frigates, mind you. The Nebulon-B is of course, definately a class of rebel ship that's closer to the larger star frigates.

[Adam Reynolds]

You're also geeky enough to be being deliberately obtuse as you almost certainly know that things like 'ulgies' exist

There is nothing to indicate these are in the new canon. That is what my argument is based upon. Those were an incredibly stupid idea in any case. Especially given the utter lack of consistency as to whether they were an effective design.

Though it is more likely that the Y-wings were a partial rebuild rather than a new design, they clearly aren't just Clone Wars era retreads.

due to the rebel mechanics having to constantly work on these old craft; they just left off the hull plating. Since it was too much work to put it on and take it off each time something broke.

I wonder if there is a noticeable difference in durability between the Clone Wars an ANH depictions? Though it is also possible that Rebel technicians upgraded the shields instead of relying on hull plating, as fitting with what their X-wings do.

There is nothing that actually disproves your position in the movies, and I don't think its unreasonable to have. In fact, for those who prefer a more tight and simple story having the forces we see in ESB and ROJ be the bulk of the Imperial Navy this view helps to tie things up in a nice little bow.

The problem is that the scope of the Star Wars galaxy is what it is, and that means everything we see is small fraction of the Imperial fleet. There being more ships like Tectors and what not does not support your position, it refutes it. The more ISDs and other class ships there are, the less unlikely it is that Tarkin and Vader can have their high end 99% ISD fleet. They are not breaking the Empire by having a gold plated squadron of a couple dozen ISDs and an Executor.

To clarify, I am not arguing that the Empire has a mere few hundred warships. They undoubtedly have thousands or tens of thousands of ISDs. My argument is that there is no reason to believe that the Empire has another dozen ship classes in the same class as ISDs as well as hundreds of thousands of smaller vessels. At least at the time of the OT.

Following on from the above, another possibility is that most smaller ships are under the control of planetary militias to some degree, leaving them free to deal with things like pirates on their own in a fashion similar to the US Coast Guard. It would explain where the Rebel Alliance gets most of its fleet, and why only its Mon Cal cruisers are in the same league as ISDs.

Agreed, its a good possibility this is the case.

I think this is also why there were no smaller ships chasing the Falcon, the crews could not fully be trusted to the same level as ISD crews.

There is room for only a modest number of ships larger than that- mainly to be kept in reserve as a threat against fortified worlds ("dreadnoughts" that can breach planetary shields, in other words).

I completely agree with almost all of what you are saying, but I don't think dreadnoughts can penetrate planetary shielding. If they could do so, there would be no need for the Death Star, as bombarding a planet is easier and more efficient.

Though I wonder if they were more intended for planetary assaults, as they would be large enough to have the ability to carry serious dropships as well as the survivability to hold out against planetary defenses like the Rebel ion cannon, which can take out ISDs.

So rather than seeing hosts of 'cruisers' and 'battleships' that make the ISD look like a petty 'destroyer,' it may well be more economical to build very few heavier ships, and just send multiple ISDs to cope with anything one cannot handle. During the Clone Wars this would have been riskier, but nowadays the Empire has no enemy capable of building a large core of truly heavy capital ships (i.e. things in the weight class of the Executor).

The funny thing is that during the Clone Wars, the Republic Navy did exactly the same thing, never using anything heavier than a Venator class. Even when they went up against Malvolence, their solution was to bring more ships rather than anything heavier.

Debateable. For example, LCS is always going to be a fairly lightly armed platform, and one which (in most configurations) lacks air and missile defense. Can you risk sending them up against someone who might actually have antiship missiles?

I agree completely. We are actually arguing different sides of the same position, that smaller ships aren't worth using.

Or, by analogy- we know the Rebellion has ships of fairly respectable size, at least a few of them. Plus forces of hyper-capable fighters that can go anywhere in the galaxy in a fairly short time. What would happen if Vader and Tarkin entrusted a frigate to chase down Leia, and she called for help and three or four squadrons of Y-Wings showed up and torpedoes the frigate to pieces? Or if the Rebels simply have a frigate of their own, which can't beat the Imperial ship but can tie it up in combat long enough for Leia to get away?

Three or four squadrons might even have a chance against an ISD, depending on their loadouts. A single squadron could likely pull it off.

@smaller Imperial ships
In Rebels we see a lot of Gozanti class "cruisers" (I guess "cruiser" is in the name for psychological effect, it's a 60-something meters long partol craft) being used in "police duties", and main troublemakers in the system, Hera & co, use VCX-100 freighter, considerably larger and more dangerous than YT-1300. Ghost doesn't even run into Arquitens-class on a regular basis, usually when we see those frigates they are dispatched agains the Phoenix Group which consists of A-wings, CR-90s, Hammerheads and a QuasarFire-class carrier (another smaller than ISD Imperial design!).
ISDs chasing Han's Falcon most definitely is not an accurate representation of how the Imperial Navy operates.

I wonder if it is for the era. While smaller and much more vulnerable frigates and patrol craft were common in the era of Rebels, I wonder if they stopped using them all that much in the era of the films. Perhaps the events of Rebels led to a military buildup within the Empire, as they began increasing spending to fit the new reality, as the Alliance was gaining greater support and vastly greater firepower.

If one notices just how quickly the Republic went from purely Acclamators to almost entirely Venators, one can see that building new ships of that scale isn't difficult, as long as one is willing to spend the money. Given that the Death Star was also almost entirely finished by that point, it is likely that the Imperial Navy was finally able to increase their construction budget again.

[MKSheppard]

Or a superlaser equipped B-wing.

Did I just fucking see something out of a really bad fanfic masquerading as DisneyU?

[MKSheppard]

It may well be that the ISD is the ubiquitous capital ship 'backbone' of the Imperial fleet, with only a tiny minority of heavy ships of other classes. Think about it. The ISD has firepower adequate to overwhelm anything except a well fortified world all by itself, is capable of landing a couple of divisions of troops with heavy armor support, and carries enough small craft to singlehandedly do a fairly good job of patrolling the skies over a world. It's certainly big enough to do most of the jobs the Empire needs a lone capital ship for. Not all, but most.

This.

The ISD (and VSD before it) were the optimum mix of firepower, protection, capacity (troop and starfighter) to do almost every job handed to it, greatly simplifying internal logistics. Plus, the speed of hyperdrive (cross the galaxy in 72 hours or so) means 25,000~ of them can do a good job of patrolling the galaxy.

If you need something a bit bigger and more powerful, the Tector class can do the job.

NOTE: We have no individual scale references to how big the Tector really was; as all we saw of it in ROTJ was that brief shot of the Falcon rolling over it, and SW mavens have gotten scale wrong before (witness the Executor class ongoing size fiasco). So it's not unreasonable to assume that the Tector might have been about 2 kilometers long instead of 1.6 kilometers -- that would have increased the internal volume under the armored wedge by a good amount, allowing for significantly more powerful shields or armament.

There are also undoubtedly 4 km long ships in Imperial service, but likely held in reserve for defenses of strategically important installations, such as Coruscant, Kuat Drive Yards, Rendilii, etc.

[eMeM]

Those are 'light cruisers' which overlap a bit with frigates, mind you. The Nebulon-B is of course, definately a class of rebel ship that's closer to the larger star frigates.

Yeah, it's ~200m long, not much bigger than the CR-90 and considerably smaller than Nebulon-B.
I think B-wing superlaser, while being stupid, is not the end of the world. Composite beam laser is not a secret technology developed for the Death Star (see: LAAT/i) and it's not a Star Destroyer it took down, just a small, 15-year old frigate.
My theory as to why it was ditched is that a salvo of proton torpedoes would achieve the same result without damaging the fighter in the process.

Note how the blockade runners seem to resist frigate firepower without too much difficulty.

That's not entirely true, the same blockade destroyed a CR-90 during the previous attemp, if they could just ignore incoming fire they wouldn't need the B-wing.

[Galvatron]

Given the circumstances, we have no reason to believe that this was a normal operation - them being suspected of possessing the Death Star plans and all that. I'm not necessarily arguing that ISDs do appear to be the Empire's go-to vessel, but that this isn't a typical police action or patrol.

Han didn't exactly piss himself when he saw three ISDs pursuing him after lifting off from Tatooine, he just seemed mildly surprised that his passengers were more important to the Empire than he previously thought. They can't be THAT uncommon to a spacer like Han.

[biostem]

Given the circumstances, we have no reason to believe that this was a normal operation - them being suspected of possessing the Death Star plans and all that. I'm not necessarily arguing that ISDs do appear to be the Empire's go-to vessel, but that this isn't a typical police action or patrol.

Han didn't exactly piss himself when he saw three ISDs pursuing him after lifting off from Tatooine, he just seemed mildly surprised that his passengers were more important to the Empire than he previously thought. They can't be THAT uncommon to a spacer like Han.

But, again, Han is not a typical example either - he's a smuggler who was boarded by Imperials previously, after all. Plus, given how ubiquitous large ships are in Star Wars, and that the wedge design was used at least for several decades by the time of ANH, I'm sure that anyone who watches the news on the holonet has seen such vessels depicted.

[Simon_Jester]

What would happen if Vader and Tarkin entrusted a frigate to chase down Leia, and she called for help and three or four squadrons of Y-Wings showed up and torpedoes the frigate to pieces?

Or a superlaser equipped B-wing.

Even includes small imperial ships vs rebel blockade runners. Note how the blockade runners seem to resist frigate firepower without too much difficulty.

Those are 'light cruisers' which overlap a bit with frigates, mind you. The Nebulon-B is of course, definately a class of rebel ship that's closer to the larger star frigates.

Yes. That's a fair summary. The relevant point here being that this is exactly the sort of ship the Empire would normally use for minor policing duties and the equivalent of Coast Guard missions, but they are not powerful enough to outclass their Rebel counterparts. Outnumber, yes, outfight, no.

Which is why, for a really critical operation, you send much larger, heavier ships.

Or a superlaser equipped B-wing.

Did I just fucking see something out of a really bad fanfic masquerading as DisneyU?

I will note in Rebels' defense that:
1) High power converging beam weapons are not unique to the Death Star, nor are they new technology, as illustrated by the ball turret guns on the LAAT.
2) The B-Wing is a dedicated antiship strike platform and is a likely candidate to carry disproportionately heavy weapons, including those which are not useful for anything other than antiship strike.
3) The gunner and pilot of the B-Wing's dialogue indicates they may "only get one shot" at disabling one of the Imperial frigates, suggesting that this may be a single-use weapon system, possibly powered by some kind of high-density capacitor system.
4) The weapon cannot be used unless the fighter flies straight and level and engages from close range, analogous to a WWII torpedo bomber. This further supports the idea that it is a beam-weapon analogue to ordnance.

So heck, it may well be that this is just an exotic attempt to use a one-shot high energy beam weapon as an alternative to proton torpedoes. Possibly one that didn't work out in the long run for logistical reasons.

There is room for only a modest number of ships larger than that- mainly to be kept in reserve as a threat against fortified worlds ("dreadnoughts" that can breach planetary shields, in other words).

I completely agree with almost all of what you are saying, but I don't think dreadnoughts can penetrate planetary shielding. If they could do so, there would be no need for the Death Star, as bombarding a planet is easier and more efficient.

It may well be that dreadnoughts can penetrate light planetary shielding or gradually wear down heavy shielding with a protracted siege- but the difference between the power of the Death Star to overwhelm defended worlds and that of any pre-existing dreadnoughts would be like the difference between the power of 20th century artillery and of medieval siege engines to conquer a medieval castle.

Siege engines can help storm a castle but it still takes months or years to reduce the defenses. A modern howitzer crew could turn an entire castle into smoking rubble in a matter of a few hours.

So rather than seeing hosts of 'cruisers' and 'battleships' that make the ISD look like a petty 'destroyer,' it may well be more economical to build very few heavier ships, and just send multiple ISDs to cope with anything one cannot handle. During the Clone Wars this would have been riskier, but nowadays the Empire has no enemy capable of building a large core of truly heavy capital ships (i.e. things in the weight class of the Executor).

The funny thing is that during the Clone Wars, the Republic Navy did exactly the same thing, never using anything heavier than a Venator class. Even when they went up against Malvolence, their solution was to bring more ships rather than anything heavier.

Some of that may be explained by a lack of industrial infrastructure to build superheavy starships on either side. Or, well, by the constant need to use forces that can be dispersed. If you can't afford ten million ships to cover your ten million worlds, you really can't afford to spend 10% of your overall budget on a handful of super-ships.

I am reminded of a comment on the "Tiger versus Sherman" debate I heard once. Basically, it wasn't just that the Tigers and Panthers used by the Germans in WWII were expensive. It was that there were so few of them that the effective result was that, in any company-sized battle between German and American forces, the Germans didn't have armored support, whereas the Americans did. The power of even one tank to overwhelm all opposition in a given small battle meant that the US had a persistent advantage all along the line, except in the small number of places where the Germans could deploy individually stronger tanks.

Likewise, it may well be that a 'dreadnought' is a waste of resources because a ship 100 times smaller is still powerful enough to be decisive in almost any single planetary battle... and if the enemy builds 10000 small ships while you build 100 dreadnoughts, they can therefore win 9900 battles at the same time that you win only 100 using your massive overkill ships. The dreadnoughts only come into play on the rare occasions when you have to fight an enemy fleet or heavily defended world.

Debateable. For example, LCS is always going to be a fairly lightly armed platform, and one which (in most configurations) lacks air and missile defense. Can you risk sending them up against someone who might actually have antiship missiles?

I agree completely. We are actually arguing different sides of the same position, that smaller ships aren't worth using.

Oh, I imagine they would be worth using... but only in situations where it is acceptable to take the risk that the Imperial force will fight the Rebels and lose. Not just "get outmaneuvered," or "be escaped" or "let them get away." But straight-up lose a fight.

If that's acceptable, by all means use lighter ships in keeping with the ship classes the Rebels have. If it's not acceptable, send a ship big enough to tangle with the heaviest metal the Rebellion has.

Blockading a non-critical planet is an example of the first scenario. Chasing down the high-ranking Rebel leader who just stole the Death Star plans is an example of the second.

ISDs chasing Han's Falcon most definitely is not an accurate representation of how the Imperial Navy operates.

I wonder if it is for the era. While smaller and much more vulnerable frigates and patrol craft were common in the era of Rebels, I wonder if they stopped using them all that much in the era of the films. Perhaps the events of Rebels led to a military buildup within the Empire, as they began increasing spending to fit the new reality, as the Alliance was gaining greater support and vastly greater firepower.

If one notices just how quickly the Republic went from purely Acclamators to almost entirely Venators, one can see that building new ships of that scale isn't difficult, as long as one is willing to spend the money. Given that the Death Star was also almost entirely finished by that point, it is likely that the Imperial Navy was finally able to increase their construction budget again.

It may well be that the lighter ships are still in use in the movie era, though- it's just that they're not seen in the specific actions we watch in the movies. Namely, Vader's pursuit of Leia, Vader's attack on Hoth and subsequent pursuit of the Falcon, and the Emperor's squadron guarding the second Death Star.

[Patroklos]

Or a superlaser equipped B-wing.

And there are people who think this show is good...

[Simon_Jester]

If the B-Wing had launched a missile and blown the shit out of the frigate that way, would anyone be complaining?

[biostem]

Or a superlaser equipped B-wing.

And there are people who think this show is good...

I quite like Rebels, and do we need to repeat again how there was a "mini superlaser" in AotC, way before the B-Wing having one was portrayed?

[Lord Revan]

Also the prototype B-Wing have other features the production version did not, like a gunner, it wouldn't be the first or last time when prototype (also implied to not even be the final prototype) had fancy features/materials that didn't make it into the production model for what ever reason.

[Eternal_Freedom]

If the B-Wing had launched a missile and blown the shit out of the frigate that way, would anyone be complaining?

Also, while the mini-superlaser did kill the frigate, it wasn't a one-shot-vaporised effect. It carved through the hull and set off a bunch of internal explosions.

Would anyone be surprised if a plane launched a special armour-piercing bomb that hit a warship's magazine or fuel tanks and blew it up?

[Batman]

It's not it was all that blown up either. Last we saw of it the still largely in one piece- adrift, yes, on fire definitely but not quite an expanding cloud of debris

[RogueIce]

And it blew out the fighter's hyperdrive, which is a problem for a long-range strike fighter to essentially strand itself after shooting down a single light warship.

And given the production B-wings we see at Endor most definitely lacked the gunner's station, it's quite possible they never figured out a way around that little issue and so ditched the concept in favor of torpedoes or whatever.

[Simon_Jester]

It might still make sense to field it under certain conditions, but yes, the temptation to say "screw it" and switch back to torpedoes would be strong. Especially since I honestly wouldn't be surprised if one or two heavy antiship torpedoes could have done about the same amount of damage to a comparatively small frigate like the ones the Imperials were using.

[NecronLord]

We'll probably see if it retains it in due course. Though the new EU has, inspired by the McQuarrie art, said that B-wings killed the Devastator at Endor with proton torpedoes.

Ah here we go. Blade Squadron destroys an Imperator with its B-wings. There's a part two on the site too. Brace yourself, the writing is actually bad.

The torpedoes they’d just unleashed shot past Moonsong, missing her and striking the Star Destroyer, impacting harmlessly against its armor. Moonsong knew better than to waste time thanking Stramm; instead she locked flight paths with him. They both pulled back on their throttles, rotating their wings through a one-eighty and bringing their ion cannons to bear, unleashing their proton torpedoes and scoring direct hits on the weak points in the Devastator‘s navigational shielding. The ship’s hyperdrive detonated, causing a chain reaction of explosions which blew back into the Star Destroyer’s primary generators.

In short Tagge was right, the rebel alliance is too well equipped, B-wings are particularly dangerous, and even Imperators aren't immune to squadrons of rebel starfighters in the nu-canon. And they're an even more serious threat to anything smaller.

[AniThyng]

We'll probably see if it retains it in due course. Though the new EU has, inspired by the McQuarrie art, said that B-wings killed the Devastator at Endor with proton torpedoes.

Ah here we go. Blade Squadron destroys an Imperator with its B-wings. There's a part two on the site too. Brace yourself, the writing is actually bad.

The torpedoes they’d just unleashed shot past Moonsong, missing her and striking the Star Destroyer, impacting harmlessly against its armor. Moonsong knew better than to waste time thanking Stramm; instead she locked flight paths with him. They both pulled back on their throttles, rotating their wings through a one-eighty and bringing their ion cannons to bear, unleashing their proton torpedoes and scoring direct hits on the weak points in the Devastator‘s navigational shielding. The ship’s hyperdrive detonated, causing a chain reaction of explosions which blew back into the Star Destroyer’s primary generators.

In short Tagge was right, the rebel alliance is too well equipped, B-wings are particularly dangerous, and even Imperators aren't immune to squadrons of rebel starfighters in the nu-canon. And they're an even more serious threat to anything smaller.

What's the "The rebellion is insignificant" counterpoint to Tagge's statement about the Rebel's being well equipped enough to be a serious threat to the starfleet anyhow? That Tagge is misinformed/engaging in hyperbole?

Versatility aside, I would think the very fact that Imperators dedicate hanger space at all to carry 72 starfighters of its own is a clear enough indication that the Imperial Navy considers starfighters, however disposable, to have tactical value.

[NecronLord]

In the nu-canon it's worth noting that Palpatine thought Tagge was right and promoted him to be in charge of the entire military after the Yavin disaster.

[eMeM]

What's the "The rebellion is insignificant" counterpoint to Tagge's statement about the Rebel's being well equipped enough to be a serious threat to the starfleet anyhow?

There's no counterpoint, quite the opposite. Motti responds to Tagge's "The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped. They're more dangerous than you realize." with "Dangerous to your starfleet, Commander, not this battlestation" so he doesn't disagree with Tagge, he is just confident that they don't need to worry about the starfleet as the Death Star is the ultimate solution to the Rebel problem.

[NecronLord]

And Motti is proven explosively wrong.

[Purple]

Well not really. The station was blown up but it took a set of rather extraordinary circumstances involving a Jedi no less. Under any normal set of conditions he would have been dead right. Especially if instead of acting like an overconfident twat he actually deployed all of his fighters.