Captain America: Civil War thread

[Darth Quorthon]

In Avengers: Age of Ultron I seem to remember Thor straight up saying that the gem in Vision's forehead is the Mind Stone.

[LadyTevar]

In Avengers: Age of Ultron I seem to remember Thor straight up saying that the gem in Vision's forehead is the Mind Stone.

I don't recall that. Do we have any way of finding that scene to make sure?

[Lord Revan]

I don't recall it being called the Mind Gem directly but it is referred to as one of the infinity gems

[EnterpriseSovereign]

In Avengers: Age of Ultron I seem to remember Thor straight up saying that the gem in Vision's forehead is the Mind Stone.

And given that both Ultron and Loki were able to use it to mind-control others it's a given that's what it is.

Looking ahead, it's almost certain that the upcoming Doctor Strange film is going to feature an infinity stone. What's anyone's guess is, in which film is the last stone going to show up? Cap (Space) and Thor (Reality) have had one each in their respective films, as have Guardians (Power), with the whole team accounting for the fourth (Mind).

There are two major assumptions at play here-

First, that the final stone will appear before the first part of Infinity War.
Second, that it will appear in the hands of someone who hasn't encountered an infinity stone before. This would leave Black Panther and Spiderman as the most likely candidates, in that order.

[Darth Quorthon]

Here we go. Thor's explanation is at about the 1:40 mark.

Also, remember that the smaller gem was inside the larger, egg-shaped jewel that was on Loki's staff. Ultron breaks it apart and affixes the smaller gem to Vision's forehead.

[Lord Revan]

the Egg shaped gem seems to be kind covering or container for the true gem which is the small irregular one (kind of like the Tessetract is a cube but there's a smaller irregular gem inside (or at least it's implied that there is)).

[Elheru Aran]

Cap (Space) and Thor (Reality) have had one each in their respective films, as have Guardians (Power), with the whole team accounting for the fourth (Mind).

How are you getting the latter? I was pretty sure the Guardians of the Galaxy only dealt with one gem throughout the movie, the one that Star-Lord picked up in that old temple. They try to sell it off to the Collector, bad shit happens there, they grab the Gem, then Ronan takes it away from them. Eventually they manage to take it away from Ronan and use it against him at the end. No two gems. Just one.

[Crazedwraith]

Cap (Space) and Thor (Reality) have had one each in their respective films, as have Guardians (Power), with the whole team accounting for the fourth (Mind).

How are you getting the latter? I was pretty sure the Guardians of the Galaxy only dealt with one gem throughout the movie, the one that Star-Lord picked up in that old temple. They try to sell it off to the Collector, bad shit happens there, they grab the Gem, then Ronan takes it away from them. Eventually they manage to take it away from Ronan and use it against him at the end. No two gems. Just one.

By the whole team he means the Avengers.

Cap's solo movie has one. Thor 2 has a second. The Guardians have a third. The Avengers as whole find a fourth, Vision's in AoU

[Elheru Aran]

Cap (Space) and Thor (Reality) have had one each in their respective films, as have Guardians (Power), with the whole team accounting for the fourth (Mind).

How are you getting the latter? I was pretty sure the Guardians of the Galaxy only dealt with one gem throughout the movie, the one that Star-Lord picked up in that old temple. They try to sell it off to the Collector, bad shit happens there, they grab the Gem, then Ronan takes it away from them. Eventually they manage to take it away from Ronan and use it against him at the end. No two gems. Just one.

By the whole team he means the Avengers.

Cap's solo movie has one. Thor 2 has a second. The Guardians have a third. The Avengers as whole find a fourth, Vision's in AoU

Ah, I get it then. Yes, that's four. That leaves two IIRC (Soul and... Time). I suspect the Soul Gem may finally turn up in Guardians 2, as Adam Warlock was hinted at in the first Guardians movie and he's one of the classic bearers of the Soul Gem.

(Crazy thought: maybe Kurt Russell's character is Adam Warlock?)

The Time Gem is more difficult to think of, but I can see it being brought up in Doctor Strange. Alternatively, if it appears in Black Panther, it could be a Wakandan cultural item which the Panthers use to experience the lives of past Panthers or whatever... I don't think Spider-Man will be particularly connected to the Infinity Gem arc.

[Darth Yan]

Saw it; I rather liked it but Zemo's plan was....kinda complicated. There were several areas where it could have gone wrong.

1.) Cap fails to bring Bucky
2.) Bucky ISN'T responsible for howard's death. I get that Zemo had a good reason to suspect as much, but it seems like he was leaving a lot to chance.

Overall Zemo was an interesting and tragic villain; Black Panther was pretty cool and the scenes where everyone's talking are actually pretty compelling. The action was hard to follow though. The Airport fight was good but the fight with crossbones at the beginning hard to follow

[GuppyShark]

That fight at the beginning is the first scene I can think of where I really noticed camera shake in a negative sense. I'm not sure if the camera steadied down later or if I just got used to it.

[biostem]

Saw it; I rather liked it but Zemo's plan was....kinda complicated. There were several areas where it could have gone wrong.

1.) Cap fails to bring Bucky
2.) Bucky ISN'T responsible for howard's death. I get that Zemo had a good reason to suspect as much, but it seems like he was leaving a lot to chance.

Overall Zemo was an interesting and tragic villain; Black Panther was pretty cool and the scenes where everyone's talking are actually pretty compelling. The action was hard to follow though. The Airport fight was good but the fight with crossbones at the beginning hard to follow

Two other places where Zemo's plan could have failed:

3.) Stark doesn't follow Cap & Bucky to the old Winter Soldier base.
4.) Stark basically goes "I get it that Bucky was being mind-controlled when he killed my parents".

[amigocabal]

IIRC heads of state get an automatic diplomatic immunity (for rather obvious reasons), so the question is would T'Challa count as a head of state at that point. That said diplomatic immunity is one of those things that while in theory grants infinite protection, in practice it's much more limited since a truly serious crimes would cause a major diplomatic incident and possibly even a war.

I am guessing that T'Challa offered to pay reparations for all the property damage caused by his chase of Bucky.

As for the whole accountability issue. Do the Avengers exercise police powers? Can they be regarded in the same vein as a private military contractor?

[JamesStaley]

I avoided the last 4(ish) pages of discussion so as NOT to get bogged down in them, and ruin the movie for myself. I actually HATE knowing the ENTIRE plot of a movie (or at least 80% of it) before going to see it for the first time. I did see Ultron, but only once so I guess to didn't remember her. Thanks to LadyTevar for taking the time to answer my questions.

Okay, if Antman could do that in the comics, then shouldn't the Avengers start reading Marvel (and eventually DC) comicbooks to gain information about their opponents/allies abilities?!
If all of these top-secret-HUSH-HUSH "WE DON'T EXIST" government agencies want to find out what the people who work for them or are opposed to them can do, all they need to go is go to a comic book store and buy the comics!

[AniThyng]

I avoided the last 4(ish) pages of discussion so as NOT to get bogged down in them, and ruin the movie for myself. I actually HATE knowing the ENTIRE plot of a movie (or at least 80% of it) before going to see it for the first time. I did see Ultron, but only once so I guess to didn't remember her. Thanks to LadyTevar for taking the time to answer my questions.

Okay, if Antman could do that in the comics, then shouldn't the Avengers start reading Marvel (and eventually DC) comicbooks to gain information about their opponents/allies abilities?!
If all of these top-secret-HUSH-HUSH "WE DON'T EXIST" government agencies want to find out what the people who work for them or are opposed to them can do, all they need to go is go to a comic book store and buy the comics!

This is why it was forbidden to sell Tom Clancy novels to Soviet spies during the cold war

MCU doesn't strike me as that kind of meta fourth wall breaking parody series where that sort of thing makes any sense.

[Elheru Aran]

As far as I can tell, the Marvel comics don't necessarily exist in the MCU. The closest equivalent were superhero collector cards at some point in the 40s or 50s, Coulson has a collection of Captain America cards. No idea if there were any other heroes like that, though First Avenger did tease the original Human Torch at one point. Namor is right out (too many ties to Fantastic Four, which are owned by Fox), so you're not going to see any of the WWII-era Defenders.

As for the whole accountability issue. Do the Avengers exercise police powers? Can they be regarded in the same vein as a private military contractor?

Good question.

Part of the problem is that we don't really know what they did in between Avengers and Age of Ultron. Thor, Stark and Cap were all involved in their own adventures in the interim (Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World, and Winter Soldier). Presumably the Avengers went low-key for some time during this period, but after the HYDRA threat resurfaced in Winter Soldier, they assembled to combat it more directly, which is what we see in Age of Ultron.

Legally, my guess is that they're vigilantes. They worked out of Stark Tower for a while there without any real national sponsorship--Stark is bankrolling the entire team for the most part. My vague guess is that by the end of Age of Ultron, they get limited sponsorship from the US, but all that goes belly-up with the Sovokia Accords. After that point, Stark's Avengers are going to be run by the UN, and could fit the definition of 'private military contractor'.

[LadyTevar]

Legally, my guess is that they're vigilantes. They worked out of Stark Tower for a while there without any real national sponsorship--Stark is bankrolling the entire team for the most part. My vague guess is that by the end of Age of Ultron, they get limited sponsorship from the US, but all that goes belly-up with the Sovokia Accords. After that point, Stark's Avengers are going to be run by the UN, and could fit the definition of 'private military contractor'.

While the Avengers will be UN-contracted, Wakanda, or T'chala himself, will be funding Cap's team. Via Comic canon, Wakanda has SHIELD/HYDRA-level tech or better, because they've all built it themselves, using Vibranium

[SCRawl]

There was a period in the '90s (in the comics) in which the Avengers operated under the UN's authority. I think that Stark was still paying the bills, but they had an island set up off the mainland for their headquarters.

[Civil War Man]

Saw it this weekend, and enjoyed it. Though it's almost sad that FOX has tried doing Spiderman off-and-on for over a decade now, with varying levels of success, and as soon as Marvel gets permission to use the character again they nail it on the first try.

As for my family, my sister and brother-in-law were a bit disappointed, and my mom generally liked it except for the fight at the end. She's hyped for the Black Panther movie, though. She particularly wants to see more of that member of the Dora Milaje who managed to steal the scene she was in despite having only one line (the one who walked up to Black Widow and went "Move, or you will be moved.").

In other news, if it weren't for the fact that Marvel hasn't announced it, and shows no signs of making it, I'd suspect, due in large part to the return of Thunderbolt Ross, that Civil War is setting up the groundwork for another Incredible Hulk movie. Between Avengers and Age of Ultron, Banner's been largely untouchable since he's had, at various points, SHIELD, Stark, and the Avengers covering for him. Even post-Age of Ultron, Fury and some of the remnants of SHIELD are probably running interference to make sure he isn't found. Post-Civil War, Ross could easily use the Sokovia Accords to give himself legal carte blanche to start hunting Banner again. The other Avengers at least, in theory, have the option of retiring, but Ross could argue that since the Hulk transformation can be triggered involuntarily, Banner is unable to make that choice, and so he automatically becomes a criminal unless he signs the Accords.

As far as I can tell, the Marvel comics don't necessarily exist in the MCU. The closest equivalent were superhero collector cards at some point in the 40s or 50s, Coulson has a collection of Captain America cards. No idea if there were any other heroes like that, though First Avenger did tease the original Human Torch at one point. Namor is right out (too many ties to Fantastic Four, which are owned by Fox), so you're not going to see any of the WWII-era Defenders.

The First Avenger did also show some kids reading Captain America #1 (the one where he punches Hitler on the cover) when he was stuck doing movies and pantos stateside.

[Crazedwraith]

[nitpick] Sony, not Fox. Sony has Spider-Man. Fox has X-Men and FF.

[LadyTevar]

As for my family, my sister and brother-in-law were a bit disappointed, and my mom generally liked it except for the fight at the end. She's hyped for the Black Panther movie, though. She particularly wants to see more of that member of the Dora Milaje who managed to steal the scene she was in despite having only one line (the one who walked up to Black Widow and went "Move, or you will be moved.").

Oh yes. T'Chala knew that would be a problem, with his quip about "As much as I would love to see that....."

In other news, if it weren't for the fact that Marvel hasn't announced it, and shows no signs of making it, I'd suspect, due in large part to the return of Thunderbolt Ross, that Civil War is setting up the groundwork for another Incredible Hulk movie. Between Avengers and Age of Ultron, Banner's been largely untouchable since he's had, at various points, SHIELD, Stark, and the Avengers covering for him. Even post-Age of Ultron, Fury and some of the remnants of SHIELD are probably running interference to make sure he isn't found. Post-Civil War, Ross could easily use the Sokovia Accords to give himself legal carte blanche to start hunting Banner again. The other Avengers at least, in theory, have the option of retiring, but Ross could argue that since the Hulk transformation can be triggered involuntarily, Banner is unable to make that choice, and so he automatically becomes a criminal unless he signs the Accords..

That is very possible, and might tie in with the new Black Widow movie they're doing. MCU loves moving not just the over-arcing story forward, but also the little dramas, like actual romance between characters. So having Black Widow tracking down Banner during Gen. Ross' full-court press might be what they're going for.

[Lost Soal]

Saw it this weekend, and enjoyed it. Though it's almost sad that FOX has tried doing Spiderman off-and-on for over a decade now, with varying levels of success, and as soon as Marvel gets permission to use the character again they nail it on the first try.

As for my family, my sister and brother-in-law were a bit disappointed, and my mom generally liked it except for the fight at the end. She's hyped for the Black Panther movie, though. She particularly wants to see more of that member of the Dora Milaje who managed to steal the scene she was in despite having only one line (the one who walked up to Black Widow and went "Move, or you will be moved.").

In other news, if it weren't for the fact that Marvel hasn't announced it, and shows no signs of making it, I'd suspect, due in large part to the return of Thunderbolt Ross, that Civil War is setting up the groundwork for another Incredible Hulk movie. Between Avengers and Age of Ultron, Banner's been largely untouchable since he's had, at various points, SHIELD, Stark, and the Avengers covering for him. Even post-Age of Ultron, Fury and some of the remnants of SHIELD are probably running interference to make sure he isn't found. Post-Civil War, Ross could easily use the Sokovia Accords to give himself legal carte blanche to start hunting Banner again. The other Avengers at least, in theory, have the option of retiring, but Ross could argue that since the Hulk transformation can be triggered involuntarily, Banner is unable to make that choice, and so he automatically becomes a criminal unless he signs the Accords.

As far as I can tell, the Marvel comics don't necessarily exist in the MCU. The closest equivalent were superhero collector cards at some point in the 40s or 50s, Coulson has a collection of Captain America cards. No idea if there were any other heroes like that, though First Avenger did tease the original Human Torch at one point. Namor is right out (too many ties to Fantastic Four, which are owned by Fox), so you're not going to see any of the WWII-era Defenders.

The First Avenger did also show some kids reading Captain America #1 (the one where he punches Hitler on the cover) when he was stuck doing movies and pantos stateside.

An article i read a couple weeks ago said Hulk would be in Ragnarok, If he goes down well in a two man show we may have more chance. Plus since he's getting pulled off world in could lead to a live action Planet Hulk.

[Crazedwraith]

Have they actually Greenlight the BW movie? I know Kevin Feige got some press recently for saying they totally should to a BW movie but not announcing there were actually doing it.Likewise for A Hulk sequel. He's supposed to be a big part of Thor: Ragnarok though. Maybe its going to be like Hulk Vs Thor only good. If they don't make BW or Hulk until after Infinity War I don't think the Sokovia accords will really come in to it.


Ugh. I can't believe the MCU's been going for 8 years and DC's still going to pip them to a post for a super-heroine movie. They could have done BW or Captain Marvel years ago.

[Lord Revan]

A quick question that might seem a bit odd, I know he's suppose to be from Africa storywise but is Black Panther depicted like someone who was borned and raised in the USA with all the baggage that entails or his he depicted as proud wakandan who would scoff at idea that he is the same as someone born in the states simply because both have dark brown skin?

[Crazedwraith]

A quick question that might seem a bit odd, I know he's suppose to be from Africa storywise but is Black Panther depicted like someone who was borned and raised in the USA with all the baggage that entails or his he depicted as proud wakandan who would scoff at idea that he is the same as someone born in the states simply because both have dark brown skin?

Neither really. He doesn't seem American to me but he doesn't make a big deal about being different. He's too focused on his mission.