Dauntless makes it to Earth(RAR)

[FaxModem1]

In the Voyager season 4 finale, "Hope and Fear", Arturis uses the Dauntless to try and trick Voyager's crew by getting them aboard the Dauntless and taking them all to Borg space to be assimilated using the ship's slipstream drive. It's only due to Captain Janeway deciding to try installing it on Voyager and Seven's decoding of the original message that they discover that it's a fake. In the episode, Arturis and the Dauntless are lost to the Borg, with Voyager only killing a few months or years off their journey after backtracking to save Janeway and Seven.

However, what if they are able to disable Arturis before he hijacks the Dauntless, and locks in course for Borg Space, and are able to take at least Dauntless, if not Voyager, home. This is around the same time as the Dominion War, the end of season 6 of DS9, as the Battle of Chin'toka has just occured. What happens now?

[Prometheus Unbound]

Who, Tom, Harry, Chakotay and Tuvok?

Or the entire crew?

[Elheru Aran]

It really depends on how much of the Dauntless is actual technology and not some illusion created by Arturis. If it's all illusion, it's not going to be much use to the Federation, unless they can talk Arturis into teaching them his little trick.

[biostem]

If they are able to bring an intact and fully-functional sllipstream vessel back to Earth, (and given how much the Voyager crew was able to accomplish by itself), then it would be a huge boost to to their tactical capabilities. Even if they were only able to engage it for short trips, it's still a order of magnitude faster than regular warp drive, (the few seconds we saw took 10 years off their trip).

[Elheru Aran]

Oh, certainly they might be able to use the ship itself, at least until Arturis decides he's tired of cooperating with them and turns it off...

[biostem]

Oh, certainly they might be able to use the ship itself, at least until Arturis decides he's tired of cooperating with them and turns it off...

Well, my point is this: We saw what Voyager was able to do with the slipstream drive, and they were working with very little in the way of support or supplies. If Federation ship builders were able to throw everything they had at it, they should be able to make a slipstream "booster" that at least gives them a couple minutes of travel, safely and repeatedly...

[FaxModem1]

Who, Tom, Harry, Chakotay and Tuvok?

Or the entire crew?

The whole crew, plus Arturis sitting in the brig for his trying to get all of them assimilated.

[Tribble]

Well, in the case of Voyager, IIRC they were going to self-destruct the ship if they couldn't get it back to the AQ, so problem solved there.

As for the Dauntless... IIRC there were two versions of the Slipstream Drive that Voyager ended up using. The first one seen in "Hope and Fear" was considerably slower than the one seen in "Timeless" as it took an hour to travel ~300 ly. On the other hand it was considerably safer, as the only reason Voyager stopped using it was due to the risk of irreparable hull damage before they made it back. The 2nd Slipstream Drive seen in "Timeless" was much faster than the first given that they could have reached the AQ within a matter of minutes, but it's also a lot more dangerous.

It's unknown if the second version was available from the start or if the Voyager crew stumbled upon some other tech to assist them though IMO the ladder is more likely. Plus they had to use special crystals which weren't normally available. So IMO Starfleet would have to make do with the "slow" version, though it's still far faster than a conventional warp drive, and fairly easy to whip up as the Voyager crew were able to build one within a matter of days without needing special crystals or, as far as we know, any other special components such as salvaged Borg tech. Retrofitting the fleet should be fairly easy, the only real issues are the potential for permanent hull damage (which may or may not be repairable/replaceable at a shipyard) and the threat of the Dominion capturing the tech and reverse-engineering it. Given the time period, IMO Starfleet would put it to use immediately for maximum effect even if it meant losing some ships in the process since the massive speed advantage would have a major impact on the outcome of the war. Given that they have the Dauntless intact in this scenario it's likely that Starfleet would be able to eventually design new starships which mitigate the hull issues, though it's unlikely they'd be able to get a design off the drawing board before the war was over.

[Prometheus Unbound]

We don't know if there were two versions - just two attempts. The first time was on a modification done "on the fly". The second was the culmination of months of work.

Remember the first one (Artorus' ship) went 15 light years in a few seconds.

[PREDATOR490]

Translation: Voyager crew comes home early
Result: Voyager crew become rather irrelevant since their claim to fame is being lost and they just got home. That is not going to influence the Dominion War much at all.

Voyager ship / Dauntless - Two additional ships that have new gimmicks just like the Defiant has the Cloak. It gives them more options but on their own they cannot really affect the war in the field. Outside of the faster drive, what does the Dauntless really have ?
Voyager's gimmick is 7 of 9 and whatever Borg tech is stuck around.

Experience - Being insanely generous with the cluster fucks Voyager routinely went through, they have no experience with the Dominion so all they can contribute is transferable skills learned in the DQ. Maybe 7 has some Borg intelligence that can help but I find that highly unlikely since you would have expected Voyager to relay that information to the Federation from the DQ when they were making contact.

Technology - Voyager did not discover any significantly impressive technology in the DQ that is going to help the war effort and if they did, they should have sent that information to Starfleet when they made contact anyway. The only real boon here is the potential Dauntless offers with its new technology. That boon only works on the hope the Federation can research / replicate and deploy the technology in a meaningful time frame / numbers to affect the war.

The Federation was shown to be pushing out ships like the Prometheus that got stolen and they make no appearance during the war. The Defiant proved over the course of DS9 that it was an effective warship but from the limited amount that appears in DS9, the ability to produce new ships is lacking and retrofitting like they did with the Lakota is potentially more effective / efficient. One would imagine a new drive system would potentially require an entirely new ship class and severe retrofitting.

The Feds were routinely shown to be outnumbered by the Dominion and fighting a war of attrition was repeatedly hammered as being a losing struggle. Unless the Federation plans to move to another galaxy, Fed ships are still stuck trying to defend fixed points. Being faster grants them the potential to be better at interception and response times but once the Fed ships drop into the fight that advantage is lost.
The best thing the Dominion can do in response is to bunker down and heavily defend all of their systems and advance step by step while keeping up their supposed attrition advantage or change tactics to remove the new Federation gimmick.

[Batman]

The (assumed to be) Transwarp-capable NX-2000 was visually identical to her NCC-2000 incarnation so it appears it does not always require an entirely new ship class (though it might still have required severe retrofitting and going back to basic Warp may be easier than going forward to Transwarp/Slipstream).

[biostem]

The (assumed to be) Transwarp-capable NX-2000 was visually identical to her NCC-2000 incarnation so it appears it does not always require an entirely new ship class (though it might still have required severe retrofitting and going back to basic Warp may be easier than going forward to Transwarp/Slipstream).

We also don't know if the version of transwarp the Excelsior would have had wasn't just an improvement over regular warp - i.e. if Scotty hadn't sabotaged it, perhaps it could have traveled via normal warp drive, and transwarp was simply a higher speed setting.

[PREDATOR490]

If the Dominion got their hands on super-speed technology then the AQ falls since they will be able to link up with the GQ and the Federation has no ability to strike back except for the wormhole chokepoint. Naturally, this goes to shit when the Founders all die and you end up with fanatic Jem' Hadar that can strike anyone across the galaxy while they go batshit from lack of their drugs.

If the Federation gets their hands on super-speed technology, the Dominion are already within their home turf so the Feds cannot strike from impunity from the other side of the galaxy without investing in assembling bases etc. Such an effort is likely to take a lot of resources and it seemed like they were throwing everything they could at the Dominion War. Being super fast will allow the Feds better mobility but unless that mobility allows the Feds to make up for the disparity in numbers and attrition they will still would be getting ground down.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Except they won without it anyway...

[Tribble]

We don't know if there were two versions - just two attempts. The first time was on a modification done "on the fly". The second was the culmination of months of work.Remember the first one (Artorus' ship) went 15 light years in a few seconds.

True. Actually now that I think of it, the first attempt lasted an hour after they had rescued Janeway and Seven from the Dauntless and they ended up being 300 ly closer to home than when they started. Since the Dauntless was heading towards Borg space it was likely heading in the opposite direction of Fed space. when they were perusing it. That means that part of that hour would have been used returning to Voyager's initial position before the pursuit began.

However, even if we were to be generous and assume that the Dauntless was travelling ~1 ly per second given its first flight, that's still only ~3,600 ly per hour. Voyager's 2nd flight was much faster than that, given that they were able to shave 10 years off their journey (~7,000 ly) within a matter of minutes.

If the Dominion got their hands on super-speed technology then the AQ falls since they will be able to link up with the GQ and the Federation has no ability to strike back except for the wormhole chokepoint. Naturally, this goes to shit when the Founders all die and you end up with fanatic Jem' Hadar that can strike anyone across the galaxy while they go batshit from lack of their drugs.

I agree that's the biggest risk that the Feds would be taken if they choose to mass-deploy the tech.

If the Federation gets their hands on super-speed technology, the Dominion are already within their home turf so the Feds cannot strike from impunity from the other side of the galaxy without investing in assembling bases etc. Such an effort is likely to take a lot of resources and it seemed like they were throwing everything they could at the Dominion War. Being super fast will allow the Feds better mobility but unless that mobility allows the Feds to make up for the disparity in numbers and attrition they will still would be getting ground down.

Voyager was able to whip up a working model within a matter of days, and they were stranded on the opposite side of the galaxy with no support. It's highly likely that a good portion of the fleet (or at least Intrepid-era ships onwards) could be retrofitted rather quickly.

The speed advantage should not be underestimated since the difference between slipstream drive and regular warp is pretty massive. The Feds would, for example, be able to go from DS9 to Cardassia within a matter of minutes. Sure, the Feds would not realistically be able to strike at Dominion targets in the GQ. However, at this stage in the war the priority is to wipe the Dominion out of the AQ. With the wormhole permanently closed to the Dominion reinforcements are coming solely from AQ manufacturing, which would be much easier to hit. The Feds would be able to choose the location and timing of their attacks as well as being able to concentrate their forces far faster than the Dominion would, which would give them the initiative. The Dominion were particularly vulnerable at this moment in the war as their AQ manufacturing facilities were not up to full output yet and they were actually facing a ship shortage (which is why they were trying to deploy orbital platforms in the Chin'toka system). If the Feds are able to strike at the Dominion facilities and cripple them before they go to full production that could potentially shorten the war by a considerable amount.

[FedRebel]

However, what if they are able to disable Arturis before he hijacks the Dauntless, and locks in course for Borg Space, and are able to take at least Dauntless, if not Voyager, home. This is around the same time as the Dominion War, the end of season 6 of DS9, as the Battle of Chin'toka has just occured. What happens now?

The Dauntless' navigation was always locked into Borg space and set up to feed false telemetry.

Arturis' plan was to con the crew into boarding the Dauntless and fly off ignorantly into assimilation.

I'd think that after exhaustive effort, they wouldn't be able to break the navigation lock (it being hardcoded, Arturis' tech not being compatible) and would be trying to copy the drive instead.

Time clock is supplies, between the time spent trying to rewrite the Dauntless' computer and engineering attempting to reverse engineer the drive, Voyager would have to break off to resupply at whatever neutral world is nearby. When they have to leave the Dauntless would have to be scuttled (to keep some poor salvager from getting assimilated.)

I think that any attempt by Voyager to use the drive would go like "Timeless". Standard warp drive has (lack of better term) "aerodynamics", explaining why Federation ships are shaped the way they are, Quantum Slipstream is likely similar. Hypothetically Voyager's design isn't 'stable' in the slipstream environment (explaining how in "Timeless", Voyager's decks were collapsing as they exited slipstream.)

I doubt they'd make it home, just a small speed boost a bit sooner.


IF we were to say they could make it home, the Voyager crew get all the welcome back fanfare for propaganda purposes (The Federation needs a soft news story to distract from the war.) The Marquis are given pardons and debriefed for any information about the Badlands that may be useful to the war effort. Voyager itself is likely returned to "stock" and recrewed to be another hull in the war. Janeway, being a Starfleet brat would be polishing a Commodore's pip (6 years as captain away from support, not a stretch.)

Sour spot is, the Borg's special surprise isn't spoiled. At some point the transwarp conduit to Sector 001 would be completed and a Borg ship would literally jump out right on Earth's doorstep.

[FaxModem1]

However, what if they are able to disable Arturis before he hijacks the Dauntless, and locks in course for Borg Space, and are able to take at least Dauntless, if not Voyager, home. This is around the same time as the Dominion War, the end of season 6 of DS9, as the Battle of Chin'toka has just occured. What happens now?

The Dauntless' navigation was always locked into Borg space and set up to feed false telemetry.

Arturis' plan was to con the crew into boarding the Dauntless and fly off ignorantly into assimilation.

I'd think that after exhaustive effort, they wouldn't be able to break the navigation lock (it being hardcoded, Arturis' tech not being compatible) and would be trying to copy the drive instead.

Time clock is supplies, between the time spent trying to rewrite the Dauntless' computer and engineering attempting to reverse engineer the drive, Voyager would have to break off to resupply at whatever neutral world is nearby. When they have to leave the Dauntless would have to be scuttled (to keep some poor salvager from getting assimilated.)

Where is that stated in the episode? Arturis plots the course himself after revealing the real controls and setting up a forcefield. Everyone else beams out but Seven and Janeway. it's only later on when Arturis destroys the controls that they can't change course. He seemed to want to personally drive them all to Borg hell.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Hypothetically Voyager's design isn't 'stable' in the slipstream environment (explaining how in "Timeless", Voyager's decks were collapsing as they exited slipstream.)

No - decks 15 through 9 compacted into deck 8 when they crashed and the glacier crushed the ship over time - when they came out of slipstream they had inertial dampeners offline and structural integrity was gone. The decks didn't break till they hit the ground at the speed of sound etc.

[Tribble]

If the decks had collapsed that much, wouldn't that be bad for all the things that hold antimatter on the ship? Not to mention all the time that had elapsed before it was discovered...

[Batman]

Maybe the failsafes for once did their job and the antimatter storage pods were actually ejected before the crash.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Maybe they don't keep them on the bottom deck :S


That is a good point though.... I'm surprised something didn't crack and blow up the ship

[Tribble]

Maybe they don't keep them on the bottom deck :S


That is a good point though.... I'm surprised something didn't crack and blow up the ship

Given that several decks were squashed as flat as a pancake, that wouldn't have really meant much...

Not to mention all the other stuff containing anti-matter, such as the photon torpedoes, Voyager's endless supply of shuttles and le shithead's garbage freighter. Even the deflector dish would have been charged with anti-protons, at least if it was similar in nature to the one on the E-E.

I'm willing to give it a pass because I rather liked that episode. I don't recall seeing Neelix's corpse; maybe Janeway shoved him into his freighter, threw some goldshirts into the shuttles, then blew them up with the photon torpedoes.

[NecronLord]

Maybe they don't keep them on the bottom deck :S


That is a good point though.... I'm surprised something didn't crack and blow up the ship

Rick Sternbach's technical guide indicates they're in the conventional place sauce. It also describes the anti-matter ejection system.

I'd assume the ejection system operated within design parameters on this occasion.

Photon torpedos are only injected with antimatter shortly before firing and wouldn't pose a crash risk.

Shuttles are maybe fusion powered? If not I'd assume the ground crew drain them of antimatter when not in use.