X-Men: Apocalypse (Now with spoilers and plot discussion!)

[ANGELUS]

New one is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer8XjMrUB4

[Tsyroc]

It looks like they managed to get Wolverine into the movie without having the movie be all about Wolverine. Cool

I was reading that originally in the comics TPtB wanted Apocalypse to be the mysterious figure behind Wolverine getting his adamantium so he could be Death but they never really followed through with that. It could be interesting if they "fix" that in the movieverse. It does seem like one of those retcons like Moses Magnum getting his powers from Apocalypse. It would have been too much in the comics but it could be okay in the movies if they establish that Apocalypse has been rising to power over at least a few years.

I kind of like the idea that Weapon X kind of went on as it did in Wolverine: Origins but with some changes/tweaks because of Days of Future Past.

There have also been some photos posted to facebook showing the Blob in this movie. I'm not a big fan of Origins, and I dislike a few elements, but I like quite a bit of it so if they are trying to keep a variation of it in canon I kind of like that.

Since they originally looked into using Archangel in X2 I wonder if Wolverine busting loose (as suggested by the trailer) means that Archangel becomes Death because Wolverine isn't available.

If what happened in Origins has changed, then where is Sabretooth? (I rather liked Liev Schreiber as Sabretooth).

[Terralthra]

In the comics, Wolverine had his adamantium ripped out by Magneto in the Fatal Attractions crossover, went kinda feral (turns out his healing factor was only held in check by the massive amounts of metal in his body that resulted in constant damage to heal, and when it was removed, he turned pretty bestial as his healing went into overdrive). He only went back to normal when....Apocalypse returned, made him Death, and gave him his adamantium back.

[Lost Soal]

Got back from seeing it today and its not bad. Not the best either.
Spoiler

This film is about 80% build up to the final fight. They have to re-introduce original characters as kids, so we get Scott getting his powers for the first time and meeting Jean, Angel & Nightcrawler being forced to fight, Storm as a thief etc. Apocalypse has to find out what the world is he's woken up to and then gather his horsemen together, though it does explain how the Sentinals could take over if he was so damn powerfull. Quicksilver is the first real set piece and thats easily two thirds into the film.
Sorry no, its the opening with Apocalypse and can I just say how stupid that was. In order for that systemic chain reaction to work the Pyramid would have to have been specifically designed & built for it which makes no sense at all since it was Apocalypse himself who built the fucking thing.
Wolverines appearance is short and bloody(well, as bloody as they can get with a 12A) as he's released by Jean then kills everyone before running off into the wilderness.

There's a post credits scene right at the end and for tose who've seen it, two questions.
1) Who the hell is Essex Corp?
2) Am I the only one who saw Logan in one of the bodybags, or did they actually kill him off sccreen?

[madd0ct0r]

He's in it. Laste few seconds of final trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jer8XjMrUB4

Edit: and that appears to be canon outfit for psylocke. fucks sake. They got wolverine out of the yellow spandex, it'd be nice to see her in something a bit more realistic.

[ANGELUS]

Lost Soal, regarding your firs question:
Spoiler

Nathaniel Essex, AKA Mister Sinister:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Sinister

[Tsyroc]

Got back from seeing it today and its not bad. Not the best either.
Spoiler

There's a post credits scene right at the end and for tose who've seen it, two questions.
1) Who the hell is Essex Corp?
2) Am I the only one who saw Logan in one of the bodybags, or did they actually kill him off sccreen?

In regard to the second part of your question. I haven't seen the movie but based on what Essex Corp has been linked to
in the comics the answer is sort of.
Spoiler

Mr. Sinister is very well known for cloning mutants. Jean Grey's clone becoming Madeline Pryor. Cable's clones becoming Stryfe and X-Man.
I think I read recently that Sinister was behind the group that was trying to clone Wolverine but the only viable version they got was the female version X-23.
So it is possible that there was a dead clone of Wolverine in one of the body bags. He's got his own movie coming up so they can't kill him yet.

[FaxModem1]

Y'all do realize that including quotes while having spoilers in a post makes it impossible to read, right?

[Tsyroc]

Nope.

I thought I had checked it to see if the spoiler would work and apparently it does in the draft stage but not when posted. I knew there had been issues before but hadn't posted enough to realize that it wasn't fixed after I thought it worked before posting.

So anyway.
Spoiler

In the comics Mr. Sinister is involved with a lot of cloning of mutant characters. He cloned Jean Grey into Madeline Pryor, who ended up being the mother of Cable. Cable was also cloned into Stryfe. He has had multiple clones of the Marauders from the Mutant Massacre storyline. More recently the Essex Corp has been linked to the group that was trying to clone Wolverine, with their only successful version being the female clone X-23. So if you saw a dead Wolverine it very well could be a failed clone.

It has been suggested that X-23 might be in the next Wolverine movie. Considering she is currently Wolverine in the comics it would not be surprising if Fox decided to go with her as Wolverine after Hugh Jackman finishes his run.

[FaxModem1]

Well, I watched the film, and it was....not bad. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't as good as Days of Future Past or First Class.

I did enjoy the theme of false gods, especially with the nod and a wink by showing the Star Trek episode "Who mourns for Adonis?"

[Meest]

Was pretty meh, not a lot of development or motivation especially for the Horsemen. Nothing stood out, fights seemed to be plain, guess because barely anyone gets hurt. Was mostly fan service and even then not a lot of emotion behind it, more like check marks. Raven forced into being a hero of a generation somehow, a bunch of first timers with no training taking down the most powerful mutant, just way too fast. Would have rather had them already enrolled than have quick cut origin intros.

[Elheru Aran]

I saw this movie. I liked it a lot.

There are a lot of specific points I would like to discuss regarding it but many would be extremely spoilerish, so I may start a separate thread for those with a Spoiler

tag since the in-thread spoilers fuck formatting to hell.

Ahem... what can I post that won't be spoilerish...

Personal impressions: As good as First Class, at least. The trailers were kinda misleading in several respects, which made the movie all the more interesting because then you don't quite know what to expect.

I found most of the characters to have largely carried on from DoFP without *that* much change. It does suffer a good bit from lack of development, trying to ride on the plot coat-tails of DoFP. The ending was IMO somewhat disappointing. I do agree with Meest that there were a *lot* of 'check marks'-- moments and characters that the fans have been asking for, that Bryan Singer finally delivered.

[Lagmonster]

This thread is now open to debate and open discussion of the movie. If you don't want to see spoilers, turn back now.

[hunter5]

Saw it the other day and it wasn't bad. My main problem after so much build up it ended pretty quick. Also the Weapons plus scene seemed to be pointless other then to get Wolverine in the film but was enjoyable nevertheless. This is a much stronger film then X3 but a bit weaker when compared to First Class and DOFP.

[General Zod]

I just got back from the film. It was a solid movie over all, and the only real weak points were the criminal under-utilization of some characters and the ending where they all went super saiyan.

[General Zod]

Though one thing that bugged the crap out of me. When Apocalypse first meets Psylocke and she holds her psi-blade to his throat, the angle looks really amazingly fake. Probably the worst fx in the movie.

[Kojiro]

Well that was a decent movie, but a poor Xmen movie. As somsone who collected the comics for the entire 90s, there was so much that was *just* off, that wasn't right it felt more like a rip off that had somehow got naming rights. Naturally I get that most people aren't me and will appreciate it more, but for me almost everything was just a bit off.

[Crazedwraith]

Saw it today. I got a lot of gripes but I guess it was okay. I keep thing complaints and then thinking ''okay, there actually xyz scene that sort of did that' but it didn't really have impact. As people have said its like a checklist being ticked off.

eta: This turned out to be a really rambling list of thoughts. Sorry.

I think The Summers get the short end of the stick yet again. This could easily have been a Scott eccentric film. Or Scott and Jean. But no, he's a douche until his brother dies and then he's just sort of there. Jean and Storm's role in the climax was foreshadowed. But only by a couple of scenes each. So that felt kind of naff. Aside from mutant flight club, the only mutant to really suffer from the humans that 'hate and fear them' is Magneto. And that was an accident from policeman who where perfectly willing to accept him coming quietly, and were only after him because well he's killed one president (allegedly) and tried to kill another. He's a known bad guy.

Speaking of Mags. I'm not sure he or Mystique are really needed in this movie. They're both really popular actors so it makes sense to get them in there. But Mystique really takes away the mentor role that should be Charles' and the field leader role that should have been Scott's.

McAoy and Fassbender do not do the 'great swell of pity for people coming to me school looking for trouble' but nearly as well as Stewart and McKellan, I guess its supposed to be a call forward but then I'm pretty sure the first trilogy can't be in continuity at all now. There seem to be a lot of call backs to previous movies. Like giving backstories to Storm's/Xavier's hair similar to Rogues, the revisiting of Aushwitz and Alkali Lake, which is dependent on us actually giving a shit about them.

Has Apocalyspse ever been an interesting character? Rather than just a really powerful mutant? He certainly wasn't here. Was the power boost also supposed to contain some brainwashing? Because 3/4 of his Horseman are good guys in the comic. Did they just dig his philosophy? Why did no one complain or even mention when Storm switched sides? They just accept here

Somethings I did like. Wolverine's Weapon X get up. Straight from the comic. Likewise the rebuilding on the mansion with powers at the end. The few scenes were Scott's being welcomed to the school and trying his powers and glasses were great and there needed to be more about it.

Basically I feel the film needed to cut down on the characters and give them more meat. There was the young x-men team, mystique, xavier, magneto, apocalypse and his horsemen, all give a bit of time but not enough to really develop.

They also missed at least a couple of perfect times to have Xavier use the old catchphrase 'To my X-Men'. He seemed to prefer talking to Jean only.

[Guardsman Bass]

I thought it was enjoyable, although after the first third the film started slipping on the pacing - it felt like every scene dragged on just a bit too long, draining tension. By the time Jean Grey goes Phoenix and mind-blasts Apocalypse, it's cool but my mood was "finally they got on with it and killed him!"

Fassbender sold the absolute hell out of the "murdered family", even though you literally know from the instant they appear on screen that they're going to be killed shortly. What was annoying about it was that it felt like a set-up for Quicksilver to reveal that he's Magneto's son late in the game, with Magneto deciding he can't let another child of his perish even if that means he turns on Apocalypse. But then that didn't happen, and he turns on Apocalypse because the guy is choking out Mystique (who in turn just doesn't have a lot to do in this film after she saves Nightcrawler).

Something about the final fight felt weirdly empty, and I can't put my finger on it why.

[The Romulan Republic]

Haven't seen the film (I haven't watched an X-man film, aside from Deadpool, since First Class), but I'm not surprised if Fassbender nailed it. The man is a hell of an actor. Though I deeply disliked First Class for a number of reasons, I came away from that film with the opinion that Fassbender was the second best performance of a super villain I'd ever seen, and that's only because Ledger's Joker took first place.

[Elheru Aran]

Something about the final fight felt weirdly empty, and I can't put my finger on it why.

I suspect it has a lot to do with the build-up to Apocalypse. They show him doing all kinds of feats, hyping his abilities (though the only world-class feat he actually does *himself* before that point is acting as a psychic amplifier for Xavier) and acting as though he's a Big Deal. Yet he never really fights anybody on his own level until he gets to Magneto-- who, it must be noted, is the only other world-class mutant they show in the movie after Xavier-- and Jean/Phoenix. He manages to hold his own against Magneto and Cyclops, keeps it up when Storm adds her lightning, but when Phoenix comes out, he goes down in short order. No real fighting back that I could see, he just kind of gives up. If he could've bloodied Jean's nose or something like that, it'd have seemed like a more formidable conflict.

I do also have to take issue with his Horsemen. Angel, Psylocke and Storm were pretty strong... but they weren't *ridiculously* powerful like Magneto. Being able to cause worldwide earthquakes? Sounds like a pretty good harbringer of the Apocalypse. Compared to... I guess being able to materialize a psi-saber and look good in a latex singlet? Storm was a little better, and would've looked better if they'd had a scene of her causing a worldwide hurricane or something like that. But frankly Angel went out like a punk, and Psylocke slinking off after the end was just unimpressive.

[Bedlam]

Something about the final fight felt weirdly empty, and I can't put my finger on it why.

I suspect it has a lot to do with the build-up to Apocalypse. They show him doing all kinds of feats, hyping his abilities (though the only world-class feat he actually does *himself* before that point is acting as a psychic amplifier for Xavier) and acting as though he's a Big Deal. Yet he never really fights anybody on his own level until he gets to Magneto-- who, it must be noted, is the only other world-class mutant they show in the movie after Xavier-- and Jean/Phoenix. He manages to hold his own against Magneto and Cyclops, keeps it up when Storm adds her lightning, but when Phoenix comes out, he goes down in short order. No real fighting back that I could see, he just kind of gives up. If he could've bloodied Jean's nose or something like that, it'd have seemed like a more formidable conflict.

I do also have to take issue with his Horsemen. Angel, Psylocke and Storm were pretty strong... but they weren't *ridiculously* powerful like Magneto. Being able to cause worldwide earthquakes? Sounds like a pretty good harbringer of the Apocalypse. Compared to... I guess being able to materialize a psi-saber and look good in a latex singlet? Storm was a little better, and would've looked better if they'd had a scene of her causing a worldwide hurricane or something like that. But frankly Angel went out like a punk, and Psylocke slinking off after the end was just unimpressive.

I don't know if in the comics the horsemen are usually there to bring about the end by themselves. Certainly in the film the ancient Egyptian ones just seemed to be Apocalipse's bodyguards. In the present Magnito was the world ended and the rest were really just guards, certainly Storm boosted to a high enough level would be capable of ending civilisation.

[Kojiro]

I do also have to take issue with his Horsemen.

They sucked big time. And again, everything was just off enough to be 'wrong' in my eyes. Angel is never renamed Archangel and for some reason making him blue was too much. And he was a complete wuss. Storm was next to useless, the only time she managed to actually hit something with lightning was Apocalypse. And there's the whole 'Well I was committed to mass global genocide, but I've changed my mind now. Can I stay at the mansion?' And Psylocke... so close to right in the look. But they just had to add a boob window. I have no problem with seeing Oliva Munn's breasts but why? Why? It was so close to perfect! And if he psi blade is now physical and can lightsaber it's way through concrete, steel and aircraft, shouldn't it be pretty much game over if it gets around Beast's throat? Yeah, the end was wholly underwhelming.

I think the most excited I got in the whole movie was the final scene where the X Men appear in uniform.

[momochan]

He was captured by Mystique at the end of DoFP.

It was interesting that in XM:A, Mystique says something to the effect that she saved a mutant's life, but what he does with that life henceforward is his business. Maybe we can analogize this approach back to DOFP - she uses Stryker's team to pull Logan out of the river, but then leaves him in the custody of that team.

That brings me to something that occurred to me at the end of DOFP: when Logan's consciousness comes back to his body in the 'present', it must be obliterating the Logan consciousness that had developed in that body as the timeline diverged. Kind of like killing your twin or something. But we can infer from XM:A that the consciousness that was replaced was actually damaged and nearly deranged, so replacing it is OK.

I thought XM:A had an interesting theme of religously-fueled hatred of modern civilization so strong that you want to destroy infrastructure as the most trangible manifestation of that civilization. You can see parallels to terrorism in our time.

P.S. My 10-year anniversary on Star Destroyer! Felicitations all around.

[Elheru Aran]

I don't think Apocalypse hated modern civilization so much as he wasn't impressed by how humanity had multiplied to such a degree that they massively outnumbered mutants. He wanted to bring down the number of humans to a point where mutants could start becoming the dominant species.

I feel like this movie had a certain potential, but wasted it. I also don't feel like the plot they went with was particularly... effective. It would've had greater impact, IMO, if they went with a longer timescale and a more Age of Apocalypse feel rather than just... Apocalypse and the Horsemen faffing about a bit before the Big Fight Scene (TM).

Something like this: first, what, 15 minutes? 30? of the movie as it was. Apoc gets resurrected, picks up his Horsemen, and starts breaking shit. The X-men go to fight Apocalypse, get their asses kicked very publicly, and even more stuff gets wrecked with Apoc taking a personal hand in the fighting. Time-skip a few years, show mutants lording it over the humans, Apocalypse needs a new body, the X-men get back together from where they were hiding and start kicking arse again. Big final fight scene. Sub Jean in for Nathan Summers/Cable if you need to, or pull out Cable as a tie-in with Deadpool.

But instead they went with Apocalypse being all woo-woo, giving some mutants fancy outfits... etc... it's just... underwhelming when you think about it.