Warcraft discussion thread (spoilers)

[Guardsman Bass]

Anyone else see this? It doesn't look like a lot of people in North America are going to see it, although it has already made a ton of money abroad. That might be enough to create a sequel.

Which would be a pity, because the Warcraft film is fucking awful. Honestly, it might be the worst big-budget movie I've seen in theaters, and I saw Battlefield: Earth and The Last Airbender in theaters. I was surprised at how bad it was - I went into it thinking that even if it wasn't a great movie, it could still be a very entertaining one. I really enjoyed Terminator: Genisys and Resident Evil, for example, despite the fact that both have very low ratings among critics (the former actually has a lower Rotten Tomatoes rating than Warcraft) and certainly can't be said to be "good" films.

The only compelling parts of the film are those with Durotan and the Orcs in them, which have some actual decent character beats and drama (plus a few good fight scenes). The problem is that the movie spends most of its time on all the other stuff involving humans, and that stuff is incredibly bad. There's almost no point in even getting specific - the acting is bad across the board among the human characters (although Medivh and Lothar are slightly less bad), the script feels almost like a longer movie was hacked to pieces in editing, the dialogue is awful, the pacing is weird, and it just goes on. Most of the stuff aside from the Orcs even looks badly done, especially the scenes with live actors playing humans in them - it's like they spent the entire special effects budget on the Orcs.

Sadly, I can see how this movie might have been better done. Do it all from the Orcs' perspective, with more time on Durotan and the Horde and more time with Gul'Dan scheming (including his communications with Medivh), and it could have been vastly more entertaining. But instead we got this, a movie so bad it's not even entertaining in a bad way.

[Purple]

So you would not recommend viewing it? I am asking this as a guy that has no interest in the franchise on its own.

[Crown]

I've seen it, I liked it. Will go again on a half price ticket if I get the time. But it is choppy, like think BvS choppy ... but more.

It's not the worst film in the world; you have to look for the heart in the film (which is there) and if you don't make that effort you will hate it.

It's doing HUGE in China so a sequel is almost a certainty. Which is okay with me!

[Guardsman Bass]

The problem is that the "heart" is in the Orc segments, and those are swamped by those awful, awful human segments. They're just the worst - so badly done that they're not even "so bad it's good", just irritating to watch.

So you would not recommend viewing it? I am asking this as a guy that has no interest in the franchise on its own.

I would definitely not recommend that you see it in theaters. Wait till home release - I might rewatch it then, fast forwarding through everything except the Orc segments. That might make it better.

[Crazedwraith]

They called it 'The Beginning'. If that isn't tempting fate I don't what is.

[Crown]

The problem is that the "heart" is in the Orc segments, and those are swamped by those awful, awful human segments. They're just the worst - so badly done that they're not even "so bad it's good", just irritating to watch.

I think Dominic Cooper's King Llane Wrynn was overshadowed by Travis Fimmel's Anduin Lothar by poor scripting (or if the character was there in the script he's on the cutting room floor right about now) and the romance was >>painfully forced<< but there were great moments there as well. Ben Schnetzer's Khadgar was good mixes of humorous and earnest when he needed to be, and Fimmel's Anduin carried the Alliance well.

The Dalaran scene was this movies Knightmare scene (if you allow me to continue my BvS comparison); it literally dropped into frame out of nowhere and if you know nothing about Warcraft it's basically the biggest WTF moment in the movie, but if you know anything about Dalaran you get a geek-out moment.

I get your gripes, it's all opinion in the end, but it's short at least!

They called it 'The Beginning'. If that isn't tempting fate I don't what is.

As I said; it's doing monster business in China, they'll get a sequel out of this. Think Pacific Rim for example.

[Crazedwraith]

Pacific Rim has a sequel?

[Crown]

Pacific Rim has a sequel?

Yep. Bit of an arduous development history, but it's happening.

[Meest]

Standard blockbuster popcorn movie, average all around with some oh remember that place in WoW moments. Nothing really noteworthy or rewatchable, and gives fuel to the fire for studio execs to say TV stars can't carry a film.

[Kingmaker]

I thought it was gloriously bad. I feel like this film would be horrendously confusing if you don't already know the Warcraft backstory. Like, who are all these people and why do they matter? (I know because I'm a fucking nerd, but I suspect your average theater goer might not). The plot lurches from scene to scene, often with little setup, which just adds to the confusion. I found myself laughing at inappropriate moments and generally entertained, but I would not recommend this film to any but people who like bad films.

Generally I would say the orcs were better written and acted than the humans (hell, at times the orcs looked more real than the humans). Callan Lothar's dying "For Azeroth!" is delivered with all the fury and defiance of a stroke victim, and that was the high point of his performance. Khadagar and Garona fluctuated between painful and unintentionally hilarious, whereas Blackhand, Durotan, Gul'dan, and Doomhammer were all solid. The duel between Durotan and Gul'dan was actually pretty good. It left me scratching my head later, though, since after Anduin's fight with Blackhand, Garona's like "you can't break the custom. The horde will reject you" even though he did literally just that minutes beforehand.

[RogueIce]

The only compelling parts of the film are those with Durotan and the Orcs in them, which have some actual decent character beats and drama (plus a few good fight scenes). The problem is that the movie spends most of its time on all the other stuff involving humans, and that stuff is incredibly bad.

Orcs get all the good scenes, Humans get shafted? Well at least it's staying true to its Warcraft heritage.

So, anyone familiar with the first three games: is this movie basically just a cinematic telling of the original, or do they try to cram in II and III as well? Is the Alliance featured or is it just Horde vs. Stormwind the Kingdom of Azeroth*?

*Fuck you Blizzard it'll always be Azeroth to me I don't care what you say.

[Me2005]

So, anyone familiar with the first three games: is this movie basically just a cinematic telling of the original, or do they try to cram in II and III as well? Is the Alliance featured or is it just Horde vs. the Kingdom of Azeroth*?

My understanding is that it's basically walking all over the original stories with III/WOW stuff, unfortunately.

[Guardsman Bass]

The only compelling parts of the film are those with Durotan and the Orcs in them, which have some actual decent character beats and drama (plus a few good fight scenes). The problem is that the movie spends most of its time on all the other stuff involving humans, and that stuff is incredibly bad.

Orcs get all the good scenes, Humans get shafted? Well at least it's staying true to its Warcraft heritage.

I suppose that's true. Hell, the movie would have been vastly better if they'd just kept the focus on the Orcs the whole time, with maybe a handful of scenes showing human reactions to them plus battle scenes.

So, anyone familiar with the first three games: is this movie basically just a cinematic telling of the original, or do they try to cram in II and III as well? Is the Alliance featured or is it just Horde vs. Stormwind the Kingdom of Azeroth*?

*Fuck you Blizzard it'll always be Azeroth to me I don't care what you say.

It's a combination of stuff that happens in the first Warcraft game, plus the back-story for Thrall's parents. Except it's all been sped up dramatically, so that instead of the Orcs crossing over in the Black Morass and gradually waxing in strength before storming out of the swamp into greater Azeroth, it all seems to happen over a period of several days or weeks.

I still call it "Azeroth" as well, although it's bizarre that the planet and the kingdom have the same name. Why didn't Blizzard just give the planet a different name?

[Crown]

So, anyone familiar with the first three games: is this movie basically just a cinematic telling of the original, or do they try to cram in II and III as well? Is the Alliance featured or is it just Horde vs. the Kingdom of Azeroth*?

My understanding is that it's basically walking all over the original stories with III/WOW stuff, unfortunately.

And ...

So, anyone familiar with the first three games: is this movie basically just a cinematic telling of the original, or do they try to cram in II and III as well? Is the Alliance featured or is it just Horde vs. Stormwind the Kingdom of Azeroth*?

*Fuck you Blizzard it'll always be Azeroth to me I don't care what you say.

It's a combination of stuff that happens in the first Warcraft game, plus the back-story for Thrall's parents. Except it's all been sped up dramatically, so that instead of the Orcs crossing over in the Black Morass and gradually waxing in strength before storming out of the swamp into greater Azeroth, it all seems to happen over a period of several days or weeks.

I still call it "Azeroth" as well, although it's bizarre that the planet and the kingdom have the same name. Why didn't Blizzard just give the planet a different name?

You're both wrong; it's clearly a modern day commentary on the refugee crisis and an advertising platform for Trump according to The Guardian ...

The prospect of a predominantly white, European realm being invaded by foreign, primitive, darker skinned hordes (they are actually called the Horde) might set alarm bells ringing in our current climate of immigration anxiety. Is this a veiled Ukip broadcast? Or a pro-Trump one? Nobody suggests the orcs are there to steal Azeroth’s jobs or exploit its benefits system, thankfully, though they are intent on overrunning their adoptive country and sucking the souls out of all its living creatures.

(I'm begging people to have an ad-blocker engaged before clicking the link, giving that piece of shite ad revenue is borderline criminal)

[FaxModem1]

So, I watched it, since Tuesday is half price day at my local theater after work, and I missed the Now You See Me 2 showing. It was okay, but really confusing. Why was the Guardian guy turned to the dark side? Did he make this choice consciously, or did he have an evil alternate personality?

Also, I was waiting for the king to say goodbye to his daughter, to the rest of his family, and note how much he just enjoys living. That, and that he was two weeks away from retirement.

EDIT: I will say, I really enjoyed Garona, the tiny orc woman. She seemed like the emotional center of the movie, as she was thrown away by Orc society, embraced by the human one, and forced into the Orc one again because of the kindness of humans. I am interested in her storyline, if nothing else.

[mr friendly guy]

In two minds whether to see this... Grace Randolf gave it a "watchable" in her review and I generally seem to enjoy the same things she does. However even she says there were problems with the film. Note of course, its not even released yet in Australia.

As noted it did seem to do remarkably well in China, most probably because it had the backing of Dalian Wanda who kind of helped fund the film, and runs shit loads of cinemas there so they could put the resources into promoting the film. Of course this might be another example like Pacific Rim, ie doesn't do so well in the North American market but does well in the overseas market, particularly the Chinese one. This might lead to an interesting dilemma. Making films that cater to both markets, and do you run the risk of alienating one market when you make something that the other one particularly likes. Or it could just be the promotion Chinese cinemas put into it.

According to wiki it cost $160 million and has already made $306.5 million. According to the usual rule of thumb, it needs at least twice the budget to break even, so it looks like it will get there. Whether it justifies a sequel looks like it depends on how good the Chinese market supports it.

[ray245]

In two minds whether to see this... Grace Randolf gave it a "watchable" in her review and I generally seem to enjoy the same things she does. However even she says there were problems with the film. Note of course, its not even released yet in Australia.

As noted it did seem to do remarkably well in China, most probably because it had the backing of Dalian Wanda who kind of helped fund the film, and runs shit loads of cinemas there so they could put the resources into promoting the film. Of course this might be another example like Pacific Rim, ie doesn't do so well in the North American market but does well in the overseas market, particularly the Chinese one. This might lead to an interesting dilemma. Making films that cater to both markets, and do you run the risk of alienating one market when you make something that the other one particularly likes. Or it could just be the promotion Chinese cinemas put into it.

According to wiki it cost $160 million and has already made $306.5 million. According to the usual rule of thumb, it needs at least twice the budget to break even, so it looks like it will get there. Whether it justifies a sequel looks like it depends on how good the Chinese market supports it.

Warcraft success has nothing to do with it being a more appealing film for Chinese audience than western audience. It has to do with it bad movies being more tolerated in China. This is the market where the Transformers movies continue to grow while declining in the US. And if you have watch any recent Chinese "blockbuster" movies, you will find out how horrible the script can be.

[mr friendly guy]

In two minds whether to see this... Grace Randolf gave it a "watchable" in her review and I generally seem to enjoy the same things she does. However even she says there were problems with the film. Note of course, its not even released yet in Australia.

As noted it did seem to do remarkably well in China, most probably because it had the backing of Dalian Wanda who kind of helped fund the film, and runs shit loads of cinemas there so they could put the resources into promoting the film. Of course this might be another example like Pacific Rim, ie doesn't do so well in the North American market but does well in the overseas market, particularly the Chinese one. This might lead to an interesting dilemma. Making films that cater to both markets, and do you run the risk of alienating one market when you make something that the other one particularly likes. Or it could just be the promotion Chinese cinemas put into it.

According to wiki it cost $160 million and has already made $306.5 million. According to the usual rule of thumb, it needs at least twice the budget to break even, so it looks like it will get there. Whether it justifies a sequel looks like it depends on how good the Chinese market supports it.

Warcraft success has nothing to do with it being a more appealing film for Chinese audience than western audience. It has to do with it bad movies being more tolerated in China. This is the market where the Transformers movies continue to grow while declining in the US. And if you have watch any recent Chinese "blockbuster" movies, you will find out how horrible the script can be.

Well I actually liked quite a few of the Chinese blockbusters, so I am going to say its different taste.

[Purple]

I imagine it also has to do with just how many people they have. Like, lets say that 10% of people genuinely think that the Bayformers were a good series. The average western nation has what? 10-80 million people? America is a tad bigger but that's the general range. 10% of that is 1-8 million tickets sold per nation. China has 1.4 x 109 people. 10% of that is more than any two European nations combined. You don't need to be impressive to earn a huge amount of cash in that audience.

[ray245]

I imagine it also has to do with just how many people they have. Like, lets say that 10% of people genuinely think that the Bayformers were a good series. The average western nation has what? 10-80 million people? America is a tad bigger but that's the general range. 10% of that is 1-8 million tickets sold per nation. China has 1.4 x 109 people. 10% of that is more than any two European nations combined. You don't need to be impressive to earn a huge amount of cash in that audience.

You have to factor in exchange rates. The average Chinese ticket probably cost less than an average US movie ticket. So even if more people watched it, the earnings for the Hollywood studio isn't any higher than domestic earnings.

Well, that and the fact that China actively limits the number of foreign movies every year, this meant that the Chinese also have far less exposure to good Hollywood movies.

Certain movies like The Dark Knight wasn't shown there because of the scenes featuring a corrupt Chinese government.

[Purple]

Still, if you can make a movie that gets through and is seen by just 5% of the population than that's equivalent to having sold tickets to everyone in Germany. So even at half rates you're still earning boat loads of money.

[PREDATOR490]

I have no knowledge of the franchise at all so when I went it I was completely clueless. I was honestly confused for a large part of the beginning and a bit annoyed even though someone dropped some comments on me.
This individual described the beginning as Lord of the Rings on fast forward - To which I actually agree. A good part of the movie is inexplicably a bunch of humans freaking out and travelling all over the place with little explanation of what the fuck is actually going on or why they are running to these places.

That said, I fully give credit to the Orcs being made sympathetic and adding real character to them. Far better than the humans who had very little development. The CGI was passable for the job and I fully expected going in the movie would be confusing either by intention to encourage people to play the games or simply because the franchise references would be lost.

The overall story felt extremely weak and I especially felt the "Fell / magic" bullshit was the worst developed part of the film. Not the best film by a long shot but I can appreciate it for at least being a valiant attempt to turn a game into a movie with some heart. Turning games into movies has always seemed foolish to me because the invariably end up being shit. Either the movie tries so hard to stay true to the game without appreciating the need to change to the new medium or they go completely abstract to point it is just a crappy movie with a game title.
I.E Street Fighter vs. Resident Evil

[Crown]

In two minds whether to see this... Grace Randolf gave it a "watchable" in her review and I generally seem to enjoy the same things she does. However even she says there were problems with the film. Note of course, its not even released yet in Australia.

My recommendation is thus; go on half price Tuesday's and just don't expect too much.

[Me2005]

America is a tad bigger but that's the general range.

Nitpick: If by "a tad" you mean 3-5x the size of the largest, then yeah; the US is a tad bigger. The US is ~1/3 the population of all of Europe by itself.

Turning games into movies has always seemed foolish to me because the invariably end up being shit. Either the movie tries so hard to stay true to the game without appreciating the need to change to the new medium or they go completely abstract to point it is just a crappy movie with a game title.

The painful part here for me is that WarCraft has always had a *great* story in it. The WCI & II manuals were mini-novels of all the stuff going on in the build up to the game; the game's campaign was written to tell a story (albiet in two different ways/from two vantage points; and WCI told a story of whichever you were on winning even though the Orc's campaign from WCI is largely the WCII cannon background). It even included long text crawls between maps IIRC. It wasn't like many of the other games-made-into-movies where there was basically nothing to go off of and the writers could make up whatever they wanted, it'd be more like a book-into-movie.

[Adam Reynolds]

Certain movies like The Dark Knight wasn't shown there because of the scenes featuring a corrupt Chinese government.

2008 was also something of a tipping point in overseas sales. Had TDK been made today, I suspect the baddie would have hid in a city other than Hong Kong. Oddly, it's the same reason that Dr Strange has Tilda Swinton instead of an Asian character, as an Asian monk of that sort would be enough to get the film banned in China due to the connection with Tibet.