Episode 8 wish list

[Adam Reynolds]

2. "Wait, the Chosen One is really supposed to be on the side of the Dark Side" is something that sounds like it was either created by someone with a love of gratuitous grimdark, or someone who is trying too hard to create an edgy, clever twist for its own sake without it making sense.

Though the idea that a person could be on the Dark Side and still be the chosen one is interesting. It would fit Ren's comment about finishing what Vader started.

I do have an alternate idea as to why Luke would go looking for the first Jedi temple- information on how the Sith came into existence. Because he saw the Sith defeated, but now he's seeing a similar organization rising in the form of the First Order/the Knights of Ren, and he wants to make sure he doesn't repeat whatever mistakes the ancient Jedi made that allowed the Sith to gain such power. It would be a chance to delve into the ancient history of the franchise, something the films have never really done (and the EU stuff was largely expunged).

It certainly fits Luke's journey to not-Tython(the old EU name for the Jedi origin world). We could also see the Sith world Korriban, renamed Moraband in Clone Wars. Perhaps the First Order is connected to it.

It wouldn't explain, if Rey is his daughter, why he left his child behind though. Unless the search was so dangerous that leaving her on Jakku was safer that taking her with him.

My theory as to that is that her mother was the one who left her on Jakku to protect her, before being killed by Kylo Ren. Ren also discovered that Rey was there, but wasn't able to kill his own cousin.

[The Romulan Republic]

Of all the theories I've seen, the best is that Kylo himself left her there, I think.

[Adam Reynolds]

Of all the theories I've seen, the best is that Kylo himself left her there, I think.

That doesn't fit Rey's reaction when she was left based on the flashback. Kylo Ren was likely involved in dumping her there(given his reaction when he heard a scavenger helped Finn and BB8), but her reaction fits someone she was closer to. This is in addition to the fact that she had no idea who he was, despite being old enough to remember being left. This indicates that it was someone else, and her mother is the most obvious choice.

[Galvatron]

Of all the theories I've seen, the best is that Kylo himself left her there, I think.

That doesn't fit Rey's reaction when she was left based on the flashback. Kylo Ren was likely involved in dumping her there(given his reaction when he heard a scavenger helped Finn and BB8), but her reaction fits someone she was closer to. This is in addition to the fact that she had no idea who he was, despite being old enough to remember being left. This indicates that it was someone else, and her mother is the most obvious choice.

To which I said, a while back...

She probably trusted her older cousin, Ben, at that age. Maybe he couldn't bring himself to kill her and thought that marooning her on a hostile desert world was bad enough. It would also explain his reaction to the First Order officer who first mentioned the girl who helped Finn.

As for her memories, I'd say she has a vague recollection at best.

[Reyvan]

Bloodline makes Kylo Ren leaving Rey on Jakku impossible. It takes place 6 years before TFA, and Luke and Ben are still together doing Jedi Stuff, and Leia is able to send messages to them. Whatever drove Luke into exile and Ben to the Dark Side happened less than six years before TFA, while Rey was on Jakku for 15 years by the time of the movie, so something else must have happened to leave her on Jakku.

[Khaat]

Luke never knew he was a father? Or never met Rey before? Baby-momma ran off with a vision of Things Going Badtm and stashed Rey on Poodu Jakku?

Though it would make sense that Luke hasn't been missing all that long: Kylo Ren isn't really old enough to have been a student-gone-bad (as the visions showed the Knights of Ren to be teens, at least) AND only just be getting acceptance from SL Snoke to complete his training by the end of TFA. This would exclude Ren from being the one to abandon Rey. Luke runs off to learn about the Sith at the 1st Temple, maybe he gets a "TFA" vision, and it's only when Rey turns up at the island that Luke realizes he's got a kid (Force-vibes say "family").

[Adam Reynolds]

Guess that ends that debate. Though it does seem to be the case that Kylo Ren knows who she is, which is odd if he was with Luke a mere 6 years before those events and Luke obviously hadn't met her.

[Reyvan]

My theory is that Rey was left on Jakku by her mother while running from the Knights of Ren, before Kylo Ren joined them and became their master. Aftermath had a group of... Darth Vader cultists, who I think became the Knights of Ren, and when he fell, Kylo was made their leader due to being the descendant of Vader. I think they were either trying to capture or kill Rey under Snoke's direction, possibly capture so that they could raise Vader's granddaughter themselves. They fail and Rey gets left on Jakku by her mom, who is then hunted down and killed. Everyone then thinks that Rey is dead. What happens in TFA then, is Kylo Ren realizing that his long lost cousin is alive, and is his direct rival for being the heir of Vader.

[Darth Thanatos]

What things do you really want to see in Episode 8?
Personally, I'd want to see an actual galactic scale battle. Fleets of dreadnaughts duking it out.

1. Kylo at full gear ripping some nobody Republic/Resistance troops a new... "hole to excrete bodily waste".

2. A montage of Luke training Rey where he combines the methods of Yoda and Obi-Wan with his own.

3. Luke not to die- Lucasfilm, you've already taken away Han, if you kill off Luke, then I will be just like this:

4. Coruscant in all it's bizarre both-a-pinnacle-of-civilization-and-of-crime glory.

[Joun_Lord]

I'd like to see more of the politics and relationships of the galaxy even though its very "Prequel"-ish. Whats the status of the New Republic? Does the Empire still exist? What relation does it have with the NR and the First Order?

As others have said, more worlds. Less Doctor Who quarry worlds but worlds that actually amaze people. The closest thing we got was Death Sun Crusher thing and that was mostly Hoth with bigass trenches. Every other world was very bland and shit we had already seen before. Jakku was just Tattooine, Maz Kanata's world was just Yavin 4 and.......and.....was there any more worlds? Lets have something fucking new and don't be afraid of CGI so much to the point where everything is too practical. On that note.....

Throw some bones to Prequel lovers. They do exist, the Prequel hate was pretty overblown. Sure there are some rabid fanboys all pissing and moaning about how much they sucked but there is an entire generation who grew up with the Prequels and see them as just as good if not superior to the OT. If the Sequel Trilogy is for fans then they need to fanwhore for all the fans not just the whiny OT fanboys.

Step out of the OT shadow. One of the biggest complaint many had about TFA is its way too similar to ANH, it borrows way too much from the OT, it is afraid to do its own thing story wise or design wise or anything. Ep 8 can have its fanwhoring but it needs to have some more shit too. Ep 8 doesn't need to be a rehash of Empire Strikes Back or another shitty remake of Wraith of Khan (Wraith of Snoke?) or whatever the fuck Jar Jar Abrams pulls out of his ass.

A little love for George Lucas probably couldn't hurt. Some fanboys are still almost violently angry with him but I think alot are starting to reevaluate his role over Star Wars. But love or not he still created the franchise Disney is rapi......exploitin.......continuing and he should get some credit. Dude barely seemed to exist in TFA. I mean they don't have to blow him but atleast don't make him like Rodney Dangerfield and give him no respect.

Not really Episode 8 exactly but Disney needs to make some stormtrooper helmets and armor that don't cost more then a used car. Its just fucking molded plastic, it don't need to cost a fucking thousand dollars. I mean shit.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'd like to see more of the politics and relationships of the galaxy even though its very "Prequel"-ish. Whats the status of the New Republic? Does the Empire still exist? What relation does it have with the NR and the First Order?

Agreed. I suspect that a lot of this was left out precisely because of how people whined about politics in the Prequels. If so, that was a mistake.

As others have said, more worlds. Less Doctor Who quarry worlds but worlds that actually amaze people. The closest thing we got was Death Sun Crusher thing and that was mostly Hoth with bigass trenches. Every other world was very bland and shit we had already seen before. Jakku was just Tattooine, Maz Kanata's world was just Yavin 4 and.......and.....was there any more worlds? Lets have something fucking new and don't be afraid of CGI so much to the point where everything is too practical. On that note.....

There was quite a bit of CGI in TFA.

As to other worlds, there was the Resistance base world, and a brief glimpse of pseudo-Coruscant before it got blown up (reportedly there was more that was cut from the film).

I didn't have a problem with the worlds in TFA in general, aside from wishing that we saw more of pseudo-Coruscant. Yes, a little derivative, but the shots of the vast desert landscapes littered with wrecks and such on Jakku were quite beautiful at times, and I think fans have gotten a little spoiled for number of worlds of late. Prior to AotC, no Star Wars film spent a significant amount of time on more than three worlds (Episode IV was only two, unless you count the brief glimpse of Alderan before it was blown up and the time spent on the Death Star).

Throw some bones to Prequel lovers. They do exist, the Prequel hate was pretty overblown. Sure there are some rabid fanboys all pissing and moaning about how much they sucked but there is an entire generation who grew up with the Prequels and see them as just as good if not superior to the OT. If the Sequel Trilogy is for fans then they need to fanwhore for all the fans not just the whiny OT fanboys.

Agreed. Definitely agreed.

Step out of the OT shadow. One of the biggest complaint many had about TFA is its way too similar to ANH, it borrows way too much from the OT, it is afraid to do its own thing story wise or design wise or anything. Ep 8 can have its fanwhoring but it needs to have some more shit too. Ep 8 doesn't need to be a rehash of Empire Strikes Back or another shitty remake of Wraith of Khan (Wraith of Snoke?) or whatever the fuck Jar Jar Abrams pulls out of his ass.

1. Abrams isn't directing VIII.
2. Abrams bashing is as tired as Prequel-bashing. While I don't think much for him as a story writer, he's a visually talented and competent director and he casts good people in his movies.

Otherwise, mostly, agreed.

A little love for George Lucas probably couldn't hurt. Some fanboys are still almost violently angry with him but I think alot are starting to reevaluate his role over Star Wars. But love or not he still created the franchise Disney is rapi......exploitin.......continuing and he should get some credit. Dude barely seemed to exist in TFA. I mean they don't have to blow him but atleast don't make him like Rodney Dangerfield and give him no respect.

Meaning...?

Many elements of the world he created, obviously, are in the film. What else can they include for him in the film? A gratuitous cameo? Would he even want one?

Not really Episode 8 exactly but Disney needs to make some stormtrooper helmets and armor that don't cost more then a used car. Its just fucking molded plastic, it don't need to cost a fucking thousand dollars. I mean shit.

I suppose, if you're into costumes. I'm not, so I don't really care.

[Gandalf]

A little love for George Lucas probably couldn't hurt. Some fanboys are still almost violently angry with him but I think alot are starting to reevaluate his role over Star Wars. But love or not he still created the franchise Disney is rapi......exploitin.......continuing and he should get some credit. Dude barely seemed to exist in TFA. I mean they don't have to blow him but atleast don't make him like Rodney Dangerfield and give him no respect.

What do you mean by this? Do you want a return of Baron Papanoida?

[The Romulan Republic]

What things do you really want to see in Episode 8?
Personally, I'd want to see an actual galactic scale battle. Fleets of dreadnaughts duking it out.

1. Kylo at full gear ripping some nobody Republic/Resistance troops a new... "hole to excrete bodily waste".

2. A montage of Luke training Rey where he combines the methods of Yoda and Obi-Wan with his own.

3. Luke not to die- Lucasfilm, you've already taken away Han, if you kill off Luke, then I will be just like this:

4. Coruscant in all it's bizarre both-a-pinnacle-of-civilization-and-of-crime glory.

If they keep following the OT, then Luke, as the Yoda analog, will die in IX.

[Joun_Lord]

There was quite a bit of CGI in TFA.

I'm aware of that. But the push towards practical effects, which I usually prefer mind you, took such extremes that we were left with no environments that were truly alien, truly unique.

Over reliance on CGI is bad. I think everyone save George Lucas and maybe James Cameron (seriously fuck Avatar, how does GL get railed on for the PT but Cameron gets a pass for fucking Pocahontas in space with blue kitty hair penis people?) can agree on that. But where CGI shines is showing us breathtaking new worlds. Places like Coruscant, Utapau (the sinkhole planet), Mustafar (the planet of high grounds), Felucia (the kinda Pandora looking planet the cute blue Jedi chick got blasted) and even fucking Pandora from Avatard. Doing them with models, minis, and sets would not be able to show the worlds quite so amazingly.

As to other worlds, there was the Resistance base world, and a brief glimpse of pseudo-Coruscant before it got blown up (reportedly there was more that was cut from the film).

For some reason I thought the Resistance base was on the same world as Maz Kanata, I don't know why. And I kinda space on the Republic capital considering it was shown for all of 10 seconds.

I didn't have a problem with the worlds in TFA in general, aside from wishing that we saw more of pseudo-Coruscant. Yes, a little derivative, but the shots of the vast desert landscapes littered with wrecks and such on Jakku were quite beautiful at times, and I think fans have gotten a little spoiled for number of worlds of late. Prior to AotC, no Star Wars film spent a significant amount of time on more than three worlds (Episode IV was only two, unless you count the brief glimpse of Alderan before it was blown up and the time spent on the Death Star).

That was my main problem, they were just so goddamn derivative. I don't think other then a line or two you would have to change much of anything to make Jakku into Tattoine, Maz Kanata's or the Resistance's base into Yavin 4, or Starkiller base into Hoth.

Though I personally found the whole movie to be highly derivative. Which leads me into me laying into JJ Abrams......

1. Abrams isn't directing VIII.
2. Abrams bashing is as tired as Prequel-bashing. While I don't think much for him as a story writer, he's a visually talented and competent director and he casts good people in his movies.

While he isn't directing 8 he still in executive producing and guiding the direction of the series, he is the Godfather of Star Wars right now.

I disagree that Abrams bashing is tired. He continues to inflict his vision on the galaxy while the Prequels are long gone. And while some of the bashing of Jar Jar Abrams is the result of angry fanboy tapping into that endless buttrage much as their forebears and in some cases themselves did about the Prequels there is much to be buttmad about Abrams beyond "he changed stuff". Mostly because the reason to be buttblasted is the fact he DIDN'T change stuff. He is an incredibly derivative writer who seems to rely on ripping off other peoples stuff and stupid mysteries to make his shit seem somewhat interesting.

Sure Lucas ripped off a whole hell of alot of people too but tried to do something different. He borrowed heavily from fantasy, from Kurosawa films like The Hidden Fortress, old sci-fi serials, and even World War II dogfight movies but did something new with it.

Meaning...?

Many elements of the world he created, obviously, are in the film. What else can they include for him in the film? A gratuitous cameo? Would he even want one?

I dunno, just some more acknowledgement about his role in creating the series. Maybe its me projecting my distaste on the Disney run Star Wars but its seems like except a line about how the characters were created by Lucas there wasn't much else. It seems downright rude to reduce the role of the man who created the entire universe, fleshed it out, wrote some of the scripts, directed some of the movies, but was always the center of the Star Wars universe to "guy who created the characters".

They don't have to get down and lavish his dick with taco flavored kisses but atleast acknowledge the fact everything Star Wars until very recently came from George Lucas and everything recent is just ripping him off heavily.

Now I understand George himself might not want to get involved with anything recent Star Wars considering he's become bitter, and let's face it crazy over the years, thanks to the downright hostile fan response he's gotten plus Disney telling him to stick his ideas where the sun don't shine.

But it don't mean Disney and Abrams can't show some more appreciation for the man.

I suppose, if you're into costumes. I'm not, so I don't really care.

I've been wanting Stormtrooper armor since I was a wee lad. I've got some now but damn was it pricey and I was buying it from not exactly Lucasarts approved dealers on ebay.

I'd love to get some better armor and not pay an arm and leg for some plastic arms and legs. Alot of other people I'm sure would love some decent armor but are priced out. Making some decent quality stormie or Vader or whatever armor/costumes would be like Disney printing more money.

There is good armor out there by Anovos but just the basic armor set that is incomplete and you have to assemble yourself is like 700 bones. The 1st Order kit is like 2000 bucks. A completed assembled suit is just under $7,000. Freaking crazy for freaking plastic.

What do you mean by this? Do you want a return of Baron Papanoida?

See above to my response to RR.

Though I wouldn't mind terribly if they did that. It seems like they have a ton of other cameos so why not Lucas himself? Maybe stick him into some Stormtrooper armor like they did Daniel Craig.

Though I highly doubt Lucas wants to come back for a cameo unless it was him pissing all over then set while flipping off the camera. He doesn't seem the most joyful when it comes to discussing Star Wars these days.

[Gandalf]

I dunno, just some more acknowledgement about his role in creating the series. Maybe its me projecting my distaste on the Disney run Star Wars but its seems like except a line about how the characters were created by Lucas there wasn't much else. It seems downright rude to reduce the role of the man who created the entire universe, fleshed it out, wrote some of the scripts, directed some of the movies, but was always the center of the Star Wars universe to "guy who created the characters".

They don't have to get down and lavish his dick with taco flavored kisses but atleast acknowledge the fact everything Star Wars until very recently came from George Lucas and everything recent is just ripping him off heavily.

Now I understand George himself might not want to get involved with anything recent Star Wars considering he's become bitter, and let's face it crazy over the years, thanks to the downright hostile fan response he's gotten plus Disney telling him to stick his ideas where the sun don't shine.

But it don't mean Disney and Abrams can't show some more appreciation for the man.

I would have thought that making an average film that made billions through advertising was a pretty big tribute to George Lucas.

More seriously, Disney paid four billion for Lucasfilm. Four billion dollars just for the rights to play in GL's magical merchandising multiverse. That's more appreciation than most get.

[Adam Reynolds]

The problem with TFA was that it was an over-correction against the prequels. So we had no political context, a lack of exotic worlds, less interesting cinematography, and another case of the Rebel Alliance and Empire under a different name despite the fact that it makes no sense for the era.

This is in addition to a nice sense of nostalgia, better dialog and character direction, and more interesting characters. The last of those is generally why it was better received. When it comes down to it, people enjoy fiction with good characters over good writing.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Blame the fans. Abrams saw what happened to Lucas when he challenged their prejudices in the prequels, and his own track record had left him with two and a half strikes against him; his motivation, therefore, was not pissing the fans off, and he played it safe.

Of course, pleasing the fanbase is akin to pissing in the wind sometimes.

[Galvatron]

Blame the fans.

Only hacks blame the audience when their films aren't well-received.

[The Romulan Republic]

Blame the fans.

Only hacks blame the audience when their films aren't well-received.

That sounds awfully close to an appeal to popularity fallacy.

And die hard fans of pretty much any franchise tend to be a notoriously nitpicky, whining lot, bursting with knee-jerk hostility to anything that isn't same old same old or doesn't fit their vision of how the franchise should be.

Abrams' mistake (and above him, the Disney management's mistake) was, if anything, trying too hard to pander to those people.

Outside of hard core fan whiners, Abrams' Trek films are fairly well-received, yes? Well, maybe not Into Darkness (though it was hardly a flop- I'll be damned if I can think of a film of his that wasn't a commercial success), but Star Trek 2009 got its share of critical acclaim, as I recall. In fact, I believe it was the first Trek film to win an Oscar (admittedly not in one of the major categories, but still).

[Patroklos]

Blame the fans. Abrams saw what happened to Lucas when he challenged their prejudices in the prequels, and his own track record had left him with two and a half strikes against him; his motivation, therefore, was not pissing the fans off, and he played it safe.

They were simply bad movies independent of the SW franchise. Nothing has changed regarding this, we just don't hear about it on this board anymore because their horribleness has passed into accepted cinematic lore. The true pissed off fanbois are the ones who still pop up here with their nerd rage against this reality.

This misattribution of why the Prequals sucked, that they are misunderstood or changed too much rather than they were just objectively bad, has cause us to get the not quite as bad abortion of TFA. It isn't an over correction, it was learning the wrong lessons. They didn't have to remake ANH because change is bad, you just have to make GOOD changes.

[K. A. Pital]

JJ Ambrams in a cameo being horribly slaughtered and dismembered by Darth Emo.

[The Romulan Republic]

Blame the fans. Abrams saw what happened to Lucas when he challenged their prejudices in the prequels, and his own track record had left him with two and a half strikes against him; his motivation, therefore, was not pissing the fans off, and he played it safe.

They were simply bad movies independent of the SW franchise. Nothing has changed regarding this, we just don't hear about it on this board anymore because their horribleness has passed into accepted cinematic lore. The true pissed off fanbois are the ones who still pop up here with their nerd rage against this reality.

Actually, there are plenty of people who like and will even defend the Prequels. It is not universally accepted that they are bad movies by any means, much as the bitter OT fan crowd might like to insist that it is so. And I find this "no one is allowed to defend them" attitude rather annoying.

For the record, I personally consider them not bad movies, on the whole (well, aside from maybe Episode I), but rather average movies that were treated as disasters by a lot of people because they had very high, and very specific, expectations for them that were not met. I call it the Obama effect, after an average President who is often treated as a disaster because people had impossibly high expectations of him.

This misattribution of why the Prequals sucked, that they are misunderstood or changed too much rather than they were just objectively bad, has cause us to get the not quite as bad abortion of TFA. It isn't an over correction, it was learning the wrong lessons. They didn't have to remake ANH because change is bad, you just have to make GOOD changes.

Easier said than done. Different people will have different ideas of what is good, and you won't know until the film is in theatres what goes over well. So I can see sticking with something that's worked before. I don't agree with it, I think its somewhat lazy and cowardly, but I understand why one might.

[Adam Reynolds]

I would actually say that The Force Awakens will be worse than the prequels in the long run. While the execution certainly left a massive amount to be desired with the prequels, the underlying story is much more sound and the worldbuilding was much more interesting. While we are admittedly judging one film rather than the trilogy as a whole, these problems are unlikely to go away.

I would love to be wrong with episode 8, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm sure I will still watch it on opening night and even enjoy it, but my expectations are rather lessened for viewing #10. Despite their numerous flaws, the prequels had more depth than TFA, enough so that people still use them for technical analysis. I can't think of much in TFA worth spending that much time on, as it doesn't feel as well thought out as in the Lucas films.

Look at the absurd dark energy explanation given by the TFA novelization, as the author recognized the problems with the system as presented in the film. Despite the absurd power generation used, nothing in 1-6 was that bad.

[Patroklos]

I have to agree to a certain extent. The TFA story is worse through lack of trying. Simply refusing to put forward a fully fleshed out story is surrendering up front. Even the story it has is largely a rehash. The prequels swung for the fences and even though they fell short it was not for lack of trying. I respect the effort where it is evident it was made (plenty of the prequels were phoned in though) even if I hated the outcome.

Noting in the prequels approaches Starkiller Base levels of stupidity. No character in it is as Mary sued as Rey, and that's with the whole dame trilogy being basically a character piece. I still think TFA is a better movie technically, the production value is far superior and we don't have to suffer through anything even approaching Anakin/Padme love story dialogue and bad acting.

[DarthPooky]

Look at the absurd dark energy explanation given by the TFA novelization, as the author recognized the problems with the system as presented in the film. Despite the absurd power generation used, nothing in 1-6 was that bad.

I think the star killer base issue is not partly from the Star Wars is science fantasy mentality that I fined a number of modern Star Wars writers seem to have. For if you were to ask JJ Abrams the issues with star killer base like seeing it destroy a planet light years away he would and other writers would probably just say NANA science fantasy. It's a mentality that continues to be a petpeve of mine. I don't see why Star Wars can't have a little science were appropriate I mean it dosnt have to be about the science just a little to make it feel a bit more real you can still keep things like the force and stuff which is what Star Wars is about but still inject a bit of science to were appropriate.