Uk Referendum on The EU Announced for 23rd June.

[Eternal_Freedom]

And this is why I desperately avoid political discussions. Everything winds up playing to the lowest common denominator. Urgh.

I remind myself of a saying of my grandfather's every day: "Imagine how dumb the average person is, then remember half the population is even dumber."

[Thanas]

Why does the Remain side bring up the EU as some sort of peacekeeper? Sure, there hasn't been a major European war since 1945, but I have a sneaky suspicion that much of that was nothing to do with the EU or it's predecessor but rather the fact that Europe was garrisoned by the two largest armies in the world, backed up by 60,000+ nuclear warheads for much of that time.

Because the EU is the successor to a host of initiatives that were designed to bring peace to the continent.The EU is the evolution of them and without those initiatives I can say with a lot of confidence that there might have been peace, but not such widespread reconciliation (see Germany and France for example).

[Crazedwraith]

I believe in their recent joint appearances Tony Blair and John Major credited it as being a big help with the Irish peace processes as well. One of the reasons they're remainers.

[jwl]

And this is why I desperately avoid political discussions. Everything winds up playing to the lowest common denominator. Urgh.

I remind myself of a saying of my grandfather's every day: "Imagine how dumb the average person is, then remember half the population is even dumber."

Don't be so condescending of the general population. Most people are very intelligent in their relevant feilds of expertise, it's just not everyone considers learning about NATO or the EU or whatever a good use of their time, and this is entirety understandable.

[Eternal_Freedom]

And this is why I desperately avoid political discussions. Everything winds up playing to the lowest common denominator. Urgh.

I remind myself of a saying of my grandfather's every day: "Imagine how dumb the average person is, then remember half the population is even dumber."

Don't be so condescending of the general population. Most people are very intelligent in their relevant feilds of expertise, it's just not everyone considers learning about NATO or the EU or whatever a good use of their time, and this is entirety understandable.

It's not just NATO/EU history though, it's politics in general that most are ignorant of. Hence why political discussions are usually a real pain, because people have their views which are based on very little beyond "I like this guy" or "that's how all my family have voted" and are generally unwilling to have a genuine discussion on things.

At least, that is the case I have observed in both South Wales and southern Buckinghamshire, the places I've lived in for long periods. Perhaps other areas are better for such things, but I don't know as yet.

[Dartzap]

Nope, that's a common issue. I know a few people who can only have a discussion by repeating Mail or Sun bylines.

People find themselves a knowledge niche and stick to it. Apart from General Knowledge accumulators who have a wide width of knowledge but not depth. I'm very much the latter.

[Thanas]

[mr friendly guy]

Best reason to vote against Brexit ever

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/21/the ... lashpoints

REPORT
The Brexit Could Be Bad News for ‘Game of Thrones’
The European Union helps fund production of HBO’s epic in Northern Ireland. If the U.K. leaves, that money could too.

Millions of people are set to tune in Sunday to watch the season six finale of Game of Thrones, HBO’s sprawling fantasy epic about warring kingdoms in the fictional land of Westeros. On Thursday, voters in a real-life kingdom will decide whether to break with the European Union — a move that could spell bad news for the fictional Starks, Lannisters, and Tyrells.

The hit show might seem to have little to do with this week’s referendum on Britain’s potential exit from the EU, which polls show coming down to the wire with the “Remain” and “Leave” camps locked in an increasingly tight race. But if voters cast their ballots in favor of a so-called Brexit, it won’t simply be the economies of Britain and Europe that feel the pinch. Shows like Game of Thrones will also be harder — and costlier — to produce, meaning that the real world and the fantasy one will collide to the possible detriment of both.

That’s because if the U.K. votes to leave the EU, it would take Northern Ireland with it, potentially robbing HBO of one of the show’s primary filming locations. It takes a lot of cash to depict Jon Snow and thousands of Stark loyalists defeating Ramsay Bolton’s forces to take back Winterfell, a scene shot there and aired this past Sunday.


That leaves HBO looking for partners to help pay for the show, and some of that money for it comes from the EU’s European Regional Development Fund, created to spur economic growth across the European Union. If the U.K. leaves, filmmakers might not be eligible to draw from that fund. This means that some of the cash used to bring big-budget productions to Northern Ireland could disappear.

HBO would not comment on the possibility of a Brexit impacting production of the show, which is or has been filmed in Spain, Croatia, and Malta, in addition to Northern Ireland. (It has also shot in Iceland, which is not an EU member state.) Northern Ireland Screen, the national film agency for Northern Ireland, also declined to comment.

But when asked if a Brexit would put financing for shows like Game of Thrones and other productions at risk, Peter Chase, a senior fellow at the German Marshall Fund of the United States’ Brussels office, said “Absolutely.”

“It might be up in the air for U.S. studios who want to film in the U.K.,” Chase told Foreign Policy. “There are EU programs to help fund all of this. If the U.K. is no longer part of the EU, that has the potential to go away.”

Game of Thrones wouldn’t be the only show potentially threatened. British film and television projects were given $32 million over the last seven years from organizations like Creative Europe, which grants money for media and cultural projects. This includes Oscar-nominated British or British-American films Carol, Brooklyn, and Shaun the Sheep, as well as the documentary about the troubled singer Amy Winehouse, Amy.

Many artists, actors, authors, and other leaders of Britain’s creative industries have made their opposition to the Brexit public. In a letter published last month, author John le Carre, actors Jude Law, Keira Knightley, Benedict Cumberbatch, and 278 other signatories from the British film, music, theater, literature, dance, design, arts, and fashion communities wrote that “Britain is not just stronger in Europe, it is more imaginative and more creative, and our global creative success would be severely weakened by walking away.”

“Leaving Europe would be a leap into the unknown for millions of people across the U.K. who work in the creative industries, and for the millions more at home and abroad who benefit from the growth and vibrancy of Britain’s cultural sector,” they added.

In addition, 96 percent of London-based Creative Industries Federation members are opposed to a Brexit, John Kampfner, chief executive of the British industry group, told FP.

Of course, the potential damage to Britain’s creative industries pales next to the likely repercussions for ordinary Britons. The Economist Intelligence Unit warns it would plunge Britain back into recession. It also estimates the value of the pound would fall 14 to 15 percent against the dollar this year. By 2020, the economy would be 6 percent, or $155 billion, smaller than it would have been had it stayed in the EU. The British Treasury predicts up to 820,000 jobs would be lost if a Brexit occurs.

That may be why some current and former citizens of Westeros are also getting involved in the debate. Glasgow-born Daniel Portman, who stars as lovable sidekick Podrick Payne, and Kate Dickie, who played Lysa Arryn and hasn’t been seen since she was thrown to her death through the Moon Door in season four, are among 80 Scottish actors and artists who have publicly called for Britain to stay in Europe.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I am tempted to download that Last Week Tonight song and set it as my brother's ringtone, it would be quite appropriate.

Also, another god reason to vote to stay: Michael Gove has said (on twitter for some damn reason)that he will resign from the government if we vote to stay.

[Purple]

That show is pure propaganda. Like I used to watch it back when it at least pretended to be news wrapped in comedy but now a days its just got a message to push and wont stop until it's shoved down as far as it can go. Which is sad, I used to like it.

[Crazedwraith]

Also, another god reason to vote to stay: Michael Gove has said (on twitter for some damn reason)that he will resign from the government if we vote to stay.

I guess every teacher is a bremainer now.

Someone in my office was pushing the sovereignty argument hard this morning. And there was a leave stall doing brisk business outside the asda in town. I'm rather worried which way this is going.

[Ziggy Stardust]

That show is pure propaganda. Like I used to watch it back when it at least pretended to be news wrapped in comedy but now a days its just got a message to push and wont stop until it's shoved down as far as it can go. Which is sad, I used to like it.

You do realize that "comedy" and "having a message" are not, and never have been, mutually exclusive? In fact, the vast majority of comedy DOES have a message, at least implicitly. And, honestly, I feel like you don't actually watch the show at all, and judge it entirely based on the handful of clips that get disseminated through the Internet, because certainly the vast majority of the show's air time is setting up jokes.

I'm not saying you have to like it, mind you, because to each their own. I just feel like you're complaint is a bit off base, or maybe just hyperbolic.

[Purple]

You do realize that "comedy" and "having a message" are not, and never have been, mutually exclusive? In fact, the vast majority of comedy DOES have a message, at least implicitly. And, honestly, I feel like you don't actually watch the show at all, and judge it entirely based on the handful of clips that get disseminated through the Internet, because certainly the vast majority of the show's air time is setting up jokes.

I'm not saying you have to like it, mind you, because to each their own. I just feel like you're complaint is a bit off base, or maybe just hyperbolic.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you completely. Comedy or any performance in general having a message to push is not bad in its own right.

However it is bad in this particular case because of the shift in tone it represents for the show. As I said already the show started out under the premise that it is serious news but packaged in a comedic outing so as to make it easier to understand and follow. A good example of it is that one episode on IIRC the death penalty where he essentially went "This is going to heavy. But if you follow me and get through this I promise you a video of a hamster eating a tiny burrito."[1] And that's a format that I really enjoyed because it actually was decent properly researched journalism in a fun package. And as such it could present tough topics and issues in a way that would make you think but not weigh you down or bore you. It really was a good formula.

But at some point around the gamergate thing it basically went off the rails and slipped ever further into comedy neglecting the journalism angle. And as someone who used to follow him I find that exceedingly sad.[2]

If you want to make your own judgment he has a whole channel on youtube that you can look up.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kye2oX-b39E
[2]https://www.youtube.com/user/LastWeekTonight

[Dartzap]

Well, I went and did the deed this morning. Looked busier at the polling station compared to the GE last year at a similar time of day. Admittedly it is 23c outside, and looks a bit tropical, so the silver horde are probably feeling braver.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Voted.

Honestly I just want all this mess to be over with, but I know that won't happen. Whichever side wins we'll have weeks if not months of wailing and "we made the wrong choice, waaah!"

[Crazedwraith]

Also likely a general election coming up either way. Either Cameron's lost and Eurosceptic take charge. Or he's won and the campaign has been so hostile that the eurosceptics can block anything they want for bitterness.

Just think... another election cycle.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Woop de fucking do.

[Purple]

Any info yet? Any preliminary results?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Polls have only been open for a few hours, calm the fuck down. Polls close at 10 tonight (9pm GMT), odds on we won't know anything till tomorrow morning.

[Purple]

Only a few hours? What did you guys do, open after tea?

[Dartzap]

Polls opened at 7am (I voted at 8 ) They close at 10pm. Unlikely to be fully known until 7am tommorow, I'd reckon.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Only a few hours? What did you guys do, open after tea?

Most of us have this thing called "a life" that we have to attend to on a daily basis that gets in the way, hence why polls are open till 10 so we can go after work or whatever.

[Dartzap]

As for a potential GE: Corbyn has declared himself ready to rock and roll, and in Private Eye there were suggestions that the Tories have been building up a sizeable war chest. Please only be a six week jobby. .... 3 months of this has been agonising!

[Purple]

Only a few hours? What did you guys do, open after tea?

Most of us have this thing called "a life" that we have to attend to on a daily basis that gets in the way, hence why polls are open till 10 so we can go after work or whatever.

Given how big the day is you'd thought they'd give you a national Holiday or something. Or at least have it on a sunday. That's what they do where I am from.

[Crazedwraith]

Only a few hours? What did you guys do, open after tea?

Most of us have this thing called "a life" that we have to attend to on a daily basis that gets in the way, hence why polls are open till 10 so we can go after work or whatever.

Given how big the day is you'd thought they'd give you a national Holiday or something. Or at least have it on a sunday. That's what they do where I am from.

Elections are almost always on a Thursday. No idea why.

A holiday for it would be cool. Don't know if it would affect turnout greatly though. I don't recall many stories of there still being queues at polling stations at close of play.