Uk Referendum on The EU Announced for 23rd June.

[Zaune]

Just saw something similar in the Hufffington Post.

52% of the country I was born and brought up in voted the same way as these individuals on Thursday.

[Crown]

Someone's made a facebook album of really worrying things that have happened since the vote: Mostly people being racist, isolationist dicks.

Just saw something similar in the Hufffington Post.

52% of the country I was born and brought up in voted the same way as these individuals on Thursday.

Do I have to virtue signal and relate the times I've been told to 'go back where I come from' before we get into this, or are we gonna be okay if we skip straight to the part where trying to reduce the Leave voters to nothing more then a bunch of xenophobic racists is asinine?

[Crazedwraith]

Do I have to virtue signal and relate the times I've been told to 'go back where I come from' before we get into this, or are we gonna be okay if we skip straight to the part where trying to reduce the Leave voters to nothing more then a bunch of xenophobic racists is asinine?

So it's okay to stick your fingers in your ears and go #notallbrexiters and ignore these things are happening?

[Ace Pace]

Do I have to virtue signal and relate the times I've been told to 'go back where I come from' before we get into this, or are we gonna be okay if we skip straight to the part where trying to reduce the Leave voters to nothing more then a bunch of xenophobic racists is asinine?

So it's okay to stick your fingers in your ears and go #notallbrexiters and ignore these things are happening?

What you seem to be ignoring is that Crown is not saying you don't have a bunch of racist fuckwits (whom he, as an immigrant, faces daily). He's asking why do you notice this only now? and why do you think it's any more extreme except now more people can display their racism and more people notice it.

[Crazedwraith]

Do I have to virtue signal and relate the times I've been told to 'go back where I come from' before we get into this, or are we gonna be okay if we skip straight to the part where trying to reduce the Leave voters to nothing more then a bunch of xenophobic racists is asinine?

So it's okay to stick your fingers in your ears and go #notallbrexiters and ignore these things are happening?

What you seem to be ignoring is that Crown is not saying you don't have a bunch of racist fuckwits (whom he, as an immigrant, faces daily). He's asking why do you notice this only now? and why do you think it's any more extreme except now more people can display their racism and more people notice it.

That's not his point because the entire second half of his post is his main point and that is literally #notallbrexiters.

And because before they hadn't just gained a massive voice in nation politics and fucked us all over and used his a validation as their veiws.

And even if it's actually business as usual for them. So fucking what? Are we supposed to say 'oh well we didn't object to this before so we can't now?' Wrong is wrong and I'd've expressed disgust with the attitude before or after the referendum.

[bilateralrope]

About that petition to redo the referendum. It turns out that it was created by a Brexit campaigner who was worried that the vote wouldn't go his way. But now that it did go his way, he is angry about the petition being 'hijacked' by people didn't have the vote go their way. Angry about people whose behaviour only differs from his in two ways:
- They voted stay*. He voted leave.
- They waited until after the vote to talk about redoing it. He didn't.

*Or were idiots who voted leave when they wanted stay to win.

Brexit campaigner admits he set up second EU referendum petition signed by three million people

William Oliver Healey says his campaign has now been ‘hijacked’ by remain voters

A Leave campaigner who was worried Remain would win has admitted he set up the hugely popular petition to re-run the EU referendum - which has garnered more than three million signatures.

William Oliver Healey, an English Democrat activist, set up the petition in May. It asks for the EU referendum to be re-run if the remain or leave vote is less than 60%, based a turnout of less than 75%.

Since the results of the referendum were announced, with the Leave campaign winning by 52% to 48% from a turnout of 72%, the number of signatories demanding another referendum has soared.

It is now the most-signed government petition since the online process was introduced in 2011. In comparison, the Block Donald J Trump from UK entry petition, which was given broad media coverage, reached 586,000 signatures.

But Mr Healey is not happy that his referendum petition has become such a roaring success.

***CAN I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!!!***
Dear All
Re: EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum petition
This petition was created at a time (over a month ago) when it was looking unlikely that 'leave' were going to win, with the intention of making it harder for 'remain' to further shackle us to the EU. Due to the result, the petition has been hijacked by the remain campaign. Admittedly, my actions were premature however, my intentions were as stated above. THERE WAS NO GUARANTEE OF A LEAVE VICTORY AT THAT TIME!!! Having said that, if it had not been mine, it would have been orchestrated by someone on the remain campaign. However, since I am associated with the petition and before the press further associate me with it I felt the need to better clarify my position on the issue even if it looks bad. I am it's creator, nothing more! The logistical probability of getting a turnout to be a minimum of 75% and of that, 60% of the vote must be one or the other (leave or remain) is in my opinion next to impossible without a compulsory element to the voting system.
I have been opposed to the bureaucratic and undemocratic nature of the European Union as an institution privately for many years and for all of my political career. I have openly and actively lent my support to both Vote Leave and Grassroots Out campaigns - why would I do this if I wanted to remain in the EU? I am genuinely appalled by the behaviour of some of the remain campaign, how they are conducting themselves post-referendum not just with this petition but generally. The referendum was fairly funded; democratically endorsed, every vote was weighted equally and I believe this was a true reflection of the mood of the country. To my fellow leavers, now doubting their decision please keep the faith, we will be fine just stick with it. I believe what we need to do now for the good of the country; is get behind the will of the British people, unite, issue Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon and move forward, with the process of leaving the European Union.
William Oliver Healey
Creator of EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum petition

Writing on Facebook, he admitted he was the creator of the petition, but said: “Due to the result, the petition has been hijacked by the Remain campaign.”

“THERE WAS NO GUARANTEE OF A LEAVE VICTORY AT THAT TIME!” he adds, in capitals.

Mr Healey has apparently disowned the petition, describing himself as its “creator, nothing more”, and has turned his ire on the Remain campaign.

“I am genuinely appalled by the behaviour of some of the Remain campaign, how they are conducting themselves post-referendum not just with this petition but generally. The referendum was fairly funded; democratically endorsed, every vote was weighted equally and I believe this was a true reflection of the mood of the country,” he said.

Parliament considers any petition that gets more than 100,000 signatures for debate, so Mr Healey’s petition may yet reach MPs, no matter how he feels about it.

[Crown]

That's not his point because the entire second half of his post is his main point and that is literally #notallbrexiters.

No, my entire second half of my post is literally this; trying to reduce the Leave voters to nothing more then a bunch of xenophobic racists is asinine.

The only reason this little database exists is to try and group shame anyone who voted Leave by associating their movement exclusively with the lowest common denominator who supported it. And your 'evidence' is mostly made up of un-verified social media posts.

Are you for real?

And because before they hadn't just gained a massive voice in nation politics and fucked us all over and used his a validation as their veiws.

There it is.

17.4 MILLION people voted leave. You have a database that features 4 blokes outside of Newcastle and a road rage altercation. I ask again; are you for real? Here is a list of things that will not happen post Brexit;

• I or those like me will be deported
• Immigration will reduce to zero

Calm down.

And even if it's actually business as usual for them. So fucking what? Are we supposed to say 'oh well we didn't object to this before so we can't now?' Wrong is wrong and I'd've expressed disgust with the attitude before or after the referendum.

You're correct! Wrong is wrong; pro-remain thugs attack young woman. I await your outrage at the entire Remain Campaign.

[Crazedwraith]

About that petition to redo the referendum. It turns out that it was created by a Brexit campaigner who was worried that the vote wouldn't go his way. But now that it did go his way, he is angry about the petition being 'hijacked' by people didn't have the vote go their way. Angry about people whose behaviour only differs from his in two ways:
- They voted stay*. He voted leave.
- They waited until after the vote to talk about redoing it. He didn't.

*Or were idiots who voted leave when they wanted stay to win.

On the one hand, this being discussed before the vote is really when it should have been discussed. Calling a redo only after it goes the way you don't want is deeply problematic.

On the other, the irony is delicious. And it's clear the author falls into the same trap. He doesn't care about the principle or it being more democratic to get an absolute majority of voters. He just wanted leave to win by whatever measure necessary.

[Crazedwraith]

That's not his point because the entire second half of his post is his main point and that is literally #notallbrexiters.

No, my entire second half of my post is literally this; trying to reduce the Leave voters to nothing more then a bunch of xenophobic racists is asinine.

The only reason this little database exists is to try and group shame anyone who voted Leave by associating their movement exclusively with the lowest common denominator who supported it. And your 'evidence' is mostly made up of un-verified social media posts.

Are you for real?

So #NotallBrexiters. Got it.

No not all brexiters are racist, isolation morons. And I never said that. You're tilting at windmills.

All I said is 'here are some people being fuckwits' I did not ever make the jump to 'all so are all people who want to leave are fuckwits' that is an invention of yours.

And because before they hadn't just gained a massive voice in nation politics and fucked us all over and used his a validation as their veiws.

There it is.

17.4 MILLION people voted leave. You have a database that features 4 blokes outside of Newcastle and a road rage altercation. I ask again; are you for real? Here is a list of things that will not happen post Brexit;

• I or those like me will be deported
• Immigration will reduce to zero

Calm down.

Far more than that. And I never claimed either of those things would happen.

You're correct! Wrong is wrong; pro-remain thugs attack young woman. I await your outrage at the entire Remain Campaign.

I can't give it because I've not ever stated that I'm blaming the whole leave campaign for the racist ones. As we've explicitly discussed before now.

But yes that is bad.

[Crown]

No, my entire second half of my post is literally this; trying to reduce the Leave voters to nothing more then a bunch of xenophobic racists is asinine.

The only reason this little database exists is to try and group shame anyone who voted Leave by associating their movement exclusively with the lowest common denominator who supported it. And your 'evidence' is mostly made up of un-verified social media posts.

Are you for real?

So #NotallBrexiters. Got it.

No not all brexiters are racist, isolation morons. And I never said that. You're tilting at windmills.

All I said is 'here are some people being fuckwits' I did not ever make the jump to 'all so are all people who want to leave are fuckwits' that is an invention of yours.

Oh don't be coy; you were presenting a narrative to discredit a legitimate political position as nothing other than a racist or xenophobic ideology and don't like it when I'm calling you out on it.

Far more than that. And I never claimed either of those things would happen.

No, but the link you provided had those sentiments plastered all over it. Get it?

[Crazedwraith]

Oh don't be coy; you were presenting a narrative to discredit a legitimate political position as nothing other than a racist or xenophobic ideology and don't like it when I'm calling you out on it.

Or I'm highlighting actual shit that has actually happened.

Far more than that. And I never claimed either of those things would happen.

No, but the link you provided had those sentiments plastered all over it. Get it?[/quote]

The link, highlights actual events of actual people who want that to happen.

You're right and they may not be in the majority or the people in power. But you can't pretend it's a sentiment that doesn't exist.

[Crown]

Oh don't be coy; you were presenting a narrative to discredit a legitimate political position as nothing other than a racist or xenophobic ideology and don't like it when I'm calling you out on it.

Or I'm highlighting actual shit that has actually happened.

Yes; to push a narrative to discredit the Leave Campaign as nothing more than racist/xenophobic which is asinine. Fucking hell, we came full circle.

No, but the link you provided had those sentiments plastered all over it. Get it?

1)The link, highlights actual events of actual people who want that to happen.

2)You're right and they may not be in the majority or the people in power. 3)But you can't pretend it's a sentiment that doesn't exist.

Crown's note; added numeric indicators in the sentences as it's important to reply to all of this

1. That link is mostly a bunch of social media postings
2. Of course they're not in the majority, why would you write 'may not be'?
3. *Facepalm* ... did you forget my first sentence? Here it is; "do I have to virtue signal and relate the times I've been told to 'go back where I come from' before we get into this..."

[Crazedwraith]

No you're right about at least one thing. We're going in circles.

Not consciously trying to 'push a narrative' but maybe I am because yes, I am disappointed in the result, and in my fellow Britains. And I can't escape the suspicion that yes, the leave vote was fuelled a lot by unthinking racism, xenophobia and isolationism. By misplaced pride in 'Britain Strong!' and arrogance.

But As I'm sure you'll point out. I can't prove any of it.

[Crown]

About that petition to redo the referendum. It turns out that it was created by a Brexit campaigner who was worried that the vote wouldn't go his way. But now that it did go his way, he is angry about the petition being 'hijacked' by people didn't have the vote go their way. Angry about people whose behaviour only differs from his in two ways:
- They voted stay*. He voted leave.
- They waited until after the vote to talk about redoing it. He didn't.

*Or were idiots who voted leave when they wanted stay to win. <snip>

Well, there's a third reason he should be angry; at one point in time most of the people signing the petition weren't doing so from IPs inside the UK.



(It's changed now if anyone's wondering you can view it here ... Belgium has voted 2,762 ... Junker maybe? )

[Crown]

No you're right about at least one thing. We're going in circles.

Not consciously trying to 'push a narrative' but maybe I am because yes, I am disappointed in the result, and in my fellow Britains. And I can't escape the suspicion that yes, the leave vote was fuelled a lot by unthinking racism, xenophobia and isolationism. By misplaced pride in 'Britain Strong!' and arrogance.

But As I'm sure you'll point out. I can't prove any of it.

Fair enough, if we're being introspective here's my observation; why is it I (the one who should feel the most vulnerable with a Brexit) am not losing my shit over this as much as native Britons?

[bilateralrope]

On the one hand, this being discussed before the vote is really when it should have been discussed. Calling a redo only after it goes the way you don't want is deeply problematic.

Agreed. Pity that's what everyone involved in the petition is doing. Even the creator only wanted a redo if he disagreed with the result.

At this point the only way I'll be happy for the referendum to be ignored is if there is an election, the parties campaign on ignoring or following it and the majority of votes are for MPs/parties who promised to ignore it. And that's only acceptable because the referendum was officially non-binding.

[Crazedwraith]

Fair enough, if we're being introspective here's my observation; why is it I (the one who should feel the most vulnerable with a Brexit) am not losing my shit over this as much as native Britons?

Heh. Possibly because the idea that the leave side was fueled by those things is widespread and it reflects upon all of us that those views are now official or acceptable. Even if they are.

You had no vote and thus can't be blamed.

I'm going to raise the point about EU migrants already here in the 'What now?' thread. Because it's an interesting question of how it will be handled. Even if they did want to chuck them all out it would be a logistical nightmare likewise if they wanted to make them all apply for visas and be evaluated on a points basis.

[Crown]

Jeremy ... has someone been a naughty boy?

Corbyn office 'sabotaged' EU Remain campaign - sources

The prime minister's resigned. No-one knows who the next occupant of No 10 will be.

And today, some of the most senior figures in the Labour Party are trying to push their leader out too. There have been concerns about Jeremy Corbyn's performance for months and months. But it was his role, or lack of role, in the campaign to keep the UK in the EU, and his sacking of Hilary Benn in the middle of the night, that has given members of the shadow cabinet the final reasons to quit. Several have already gone; as many as half will be gone by the end of the day, I understand.

And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".

A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.

The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.

Mr Corbyn has insisted publicly that he campaigned hard to keep the country in the EU and that he made a number of speeches around the country, and attended many campaigning events. But many shadow cabinet ministers believe his performance in the campaign has shown that he is simply not capable of leading the party. One senior figure told me: "People have just had enough and are embarrassed to be part of it." Jeremy Corbyn's team are adamant that he will stand again for the leadership, and they believe the party's members would back him again.

He has had persuasive and vehement backing from the party's members who he energised last summer. But as the Labour Party reels from Thursday's result, it is not clear that support will be as solid as it was. MPs report that some of their members are contacting them to say they've changed their minds about Mr Corbyn. We'll see. It's possible that within days, both of our two main political parties will be looking for a new leader.

A spokesman for the Labour party said: "The leaks of these emails within the Labour Party are self-evidently politically motivated. This is the action of people who want to de-stabilise the leadership by attempting to demonstrate negative activity in the leader's office.

"The leaks themselves show no such thing, simply demonstrating the views of those whose emails are quoted.

"On the process of letter writing, of course it is normal practice in politics that drafts are amended. Any communications in the name of the Leader of the Labour Party are authorised by the leader's communications team and ultimately by the leader himself .

"Both Jeremy and his team worked hard to deliver his message of remain and reform. Given that the Labour Party was the only party that delivered a majority vote for the remain campaign among its own supporters, the criticisms of Jeremy Corbyn make little sense."

For those of you outside of the UK allow me to present a little context; Jeremy Corbyn is the leader of the Labour Party. He was 'foisted' upon the Labour Leadership by the unions and their foot soldier proletariat after the last election and they hate his guts and are trying to oust him. However, during the Brexit debate Jeremy was curiously absent. I just thought they were doing that because they didn't want to make Tory voters run towards the Leave campaign in droves simply because the one thing I'll say about Corbyn is that he really cannot appeal to a Tory voter. After the Leave Campaign won, and won by basically hoovering up all of Labour's strongholds in North England I assumed that Corbyn's absence either cost them the referendum or he isn't the darling of the unions anymore.

But the above from the BBC indicates that Corbyn was actually sabotaging the Remain Campaign to get a Leave win. Curious.

[Purple]

Just another example of the people who lost being unwilling to admit to this or resign them self to the fact and instead engaging in mental contortions, conspiracy theories and really everything and anything they can to try and win anyway, at least in their minds. Pathetic.

I can't wait to see how long it takes someone to blame the jews.

[Zaune]

Maybe he saw where the Leave campaign was going and refused to be associated with them in public? I mean, it's not like there aren't valid and defensible arguments against staying in the EU in its current form, particularly what happened to Greece.

And I'd be considerably less upset about this result if I thought that was why we got the result we did.

[Crown]

Maybe he saw where the Leave campaign was going and refused to be associated with them in public? I mean, it's not like there aren't valid and defensible arguments against staying in the EU in its current form, particularly what happened to Greece.

And I'd be considerably less upset about this result if I thought that was why we got the result we did.

If we take away the option this is just a Leadership attempt to oust him and assume that the claim has validity; then yes I'm thinking the same way as you. Corbyn always struck me as a less sexy Varoufakis. Varoufakis still believes we can (and should) reform the EU, I think Corbyn sees it as an un-redeemable construct by a banking cabal.

[Crazedwraith]

Well that's just bonkers. I don't even know what to make of the Labour Party at the moment.

I can see the whole referendum as big no-win scenario for Corbyn. If he's strongly in or out he's either on the losing side or he's on the winning side but closely aligned with one kind of tory or the other and loses face for that. Or he does not much and is lambasted for being ineffective. As has happened.

I've never got why exactly the Labour MPs can't settle down and be 'well he's not the one I wanted but he's the choice of the party I represent so let's make a good faith attempt to get it to work.' Do they want to be out of power for decades? And I hate to sound a paranoid-loon but the media really don't like him and always seem to highlight the slightest upset.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

About that petition to redo the referendum. It turns out that it was created by a Brexit campaigner who was worried that the vote wouldn't go his way. But now that it did go his way, he is angry about the petition being 'hijacked' by people didn't have the vote go their way. Angry about people whose behaviour only differs from his in two ways:
- They voted stay*. He voted leave.
- They waited until after the vote to talk about redoing it. He didn't.

*Or were idiots who voted leave when they wanted stay to win. <snip>

Well, there's a third reason he should be angry; at one point in time most of the people signing the petition weren't doing so from IPs inside the UK.



(It's changed now if anyone's wondering you can view it here ... Belgium has voted 2,762 ... Junker maybe? )

Please tell me I'm not the only one who finds this fucking hilarious?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well that's just bonkers. I don't even know what to make of the Labour Party at the moment.

I can see the whole referendum as big no-win scenario for Corbyn. If he's strongly in or out he's either on the losing side or he's on the winning side but closely aligned with one kind of tory or the other and loses face for that. Or he does not much and is lambasted for being ineffective. As has happened.

I've never got why exactly the Labour MPs can't settle down and be 'well he's not the one I wanted but he's the choice of the party I represent so let's make a good faith attempt to get it to work.' Do they want to be out of power for decades? And I hate to sound a paranoid-loon but the media really don't like him and always seem to highlight the slightest upset.

Well the pundits were saying during the Labour leadership contest that choosing Corbyn was the perfect way to fuck themselves over, because Corbyn was "Unelectable" to voters.

[Bedlam]

I'd say Corbyn was trying to avoid the same fate as the Scottish Labour party.

People very much see things in black and white most of the time, the last Scottish Referendum ended up being the SNP vs everybody else, and to a lot of Labour voters that translated into their party turning traitor and working with the Tory's regardless of what their feelings were on independence. Thus when the elections rolled around the anti tory voter instead of voting labour voted SNP as it was seen as the 'pure' party.

The same thing could have been the outcome of this referendum, maybe stay would have won but again Labour would have been seen as betraying their principles by working with the conservatives and their voters might have left them for that reason.

Not sensible, but generally speaking humans aren't.