Game of Thrones Season 6 [Discussion of most-recently aired episodes]

[ArmorPierce]

As far as an outsider is concerned, it probably looks like Jon used himself as bait in a trap to lure Ramsay's army out of their fortifications so the Vale knights could destroy them.

Tactical acumen AND great physical courage.

Otherwise you'd have to believe that he marched to attack Winterfell with a rabble of undisciplined wildlings and a handful of troops from minor Northern houses, and was only saved by an unlikely rescue from a third force he knew nothing about...

When you put it that way, it sounds so ludicrous that nobody would think otherwise. BRILLIANT!

[Simon_Jester]

The issues I heard with books 4 and 5 is partially that some of the characters weren't needed; Victarion obviously will give Dany the ships she needs; problem was you could have had Asha do the same damn thing and it doesn't waste time on another viewpoint.

I think Victarion may serve a purpose in that he is potentially antagonistic to Dany, is working at the behest of a magic-user who may bear Dany some ill will, and has a magical tool that could enslave her dragons.

Whereas Asha is very clearly on Dany's side and is not a threat to her.

[Crazedwraith]

Doesn't book Dany have at least one more betrayal coming up? Things are not going to smooth for her return to westeros.

[The Vortex Empire]

The issues I heard with books 4 and 5

Wait, have you not read them yourself? Go read them, don't let other people form your opinions for you.

[Guardsman Bass]

@ArmorPierce

That's in the show. It's been a few years since I last read Dance with Dragons, but I'm pretty sure she was constantly balking at people like the Shavepate telling her that she needed to annihilate the Masters root-and-stem.

[MKSheppard]

The North Doesn't Remember Shit: Apart from Lyanna Mormont, we see virtually nothing of the Northern houses rallying to the Stark cause. Sure, the Hornwoods and the Mazins did, but we didn't see it, and no one else bothered.

They rallied to the Stark Cause, back in Season 2-3, and saw their best lords and best men march south....never to return. Pardon me if they're not enthused about ANOTHER Stark Cause.

[Simon_Jester]

The hell of it is, a significant fraction of the northern lords are at least willing to try at all, which is a very impressive measure of loyalty. A lot of royal families would have been utterly abandoned and ignored at this point.

[MKSheppard]

I'm afraid that the show is rapidly overtaking the books.

While the show has been fucking up here and there (Sand Snakes is a big one) with increasing frequency the last two seasons due to them outrunning GRRM's published work (they're no longer being able to act as "Editors" to streamline GRRM's plots), and being forced to use GRRM's notes and plot kernels that he's told them about to go forward and write it in about 4 months.....

Naturally, they fuck up some of it.

But, unlike GRRM, they release on schedule.

[The Vortex Empire]

The North Doesn't Remember Shit: Apart from Lyanna Mormont, we see virtually nothing of the Northern houses rallying to the Stark cause. Sure, the Hornwoods and the Mazins did, but we didn't see it, and no one else bothered.

They rallied to the Stark Cause, back in Season 2-3, and saw their best lords and best men march south....never to return. Pardon me if they're not enthused about ANOTHER Stark Cause.

They rallied to the Stark Cause and saw their beloved King, best lords, and best men murdered by the treason and oathbreaking of Houses Bolton and Frey. Vengeance should be the only thing on their minds (and is in canon).

[ArmorPierce]

The North Doesn't Remember Shit: Apart from Lyanna Mormont, we see virtually nothing of the Northern houses rallying to the Stark cause. Sure, the Hornwoods and the Mazins did, but we didn't see it, and no one else bothered.

They rallied to the Stark Cause, back in Season 2-3, and saw their best lords and best men march south....never to return. Pardon me if they're not enthused about ANOTHER Stark Cause.

Agreed. its easy to say that these guys are not supporting the Starks, but you have to stop and realize that at this point effectively everyone in the north have lost people in a brutal manner.

From the sound of it, a large part of an entire generation of men have been wiped out. They said that Bolton + Karstarks + Umbers was more men than all the other Northern houses combined and that was 6,000. So remaining men is less than 6,000... and Rob's army at one point was around below 20,000 which excluded men that he couldn't mobilize because of his time constraints.... so from their original 20-30,000 able bodied men, they are down to below 6,000. That's some pretty disastrous losses.

[MKSheppard]

That's some pretty disastrous losses.

Not to mention other effects on the North due to the War of the Five Kings (or whatever it's being called now); the North got invaded and invading armies would have killed and pillaged their way across the North after Robb got ganked (along with most of his force) at the Red Wedding.

[Lord Revan]

I wonder if the Black/Red sails and banners mean that Dany is now "evil" character or just that the show producers don't care about that shorthand.

[MKSheppard]

Now, for some speculation on my part regarding Arya:
Spoiler

Am I not the only one who thinks that Jaqen H'ghar is running this entire thing as a 'final graduation' exercise for Arya? She ganked the waif -- who I assume was also another potential faceless man -- proving that the Waif wasn't up for it to be a faceless man.

The biggest thing holding back Arya from becoming a faceless man is...revenge.

Notice how she said that her name was Arya Stark and she's going home to Winterfell?

Then all of a sudden she's in the Twins cutting and dicing the Freys with removable faces?

I suspect that after she gets ultimate revenge; Jaqen H'ghar will show up and say...."now that a girl has had her revenge, a girl is no one."

[Lord Revan]

That's some pretty disastrous losses.

Not to mention other effects on the North due to the War of the Five Kings (or whatever it's being called now); the North got invaded and invading armies would have killed and pillaged their way across the North after Robb got ganked (along with most of his force) at the Red Wedding.

I also wonder how many decent battlefield leaders got killed either due to the War or the Boltons being paranoid sadistic assholes who couldn't be trusted with a wooden butter knife let alone anything that could harm a person.

though it's clear the Lannister's alliance is breaking as well with Tyrells and martel putting aside their differences to join against the Lannisters and Lannister troops wearing full armor at the Frey feast clearly not trusting them and that's before the damage the Mad Queen did the King's Landing.

[MKSheppard]

Another good reason the North was wavering:

The North Remembers...the last long winter.

They said at the feast that there were rumors circulating that this was going to be the worst winter in a thousand years, or some such.

Guess what got burned up in the back and forth pillaging across the North by various forces seeking to secure the North?

Yep, nearly a decade of Summer food stockpiles.

[Lord Revan]

Spoiler

Spoiler I'm a bit confused though, wasn't wildfire suppose to be something you essentially cannot extinguish no matter what and it will consume everything in its path with that amount surely king's landing at very least should be smoking ruin with most likely a decent amount of surrounding country side having been burnt as well?

[Ralin]

t Lord Revan
Spoiler

Nah. Cersei only exploded one cache of wildfire. You'd need several like it going off at once to destroy the entire city.

[Alferd Packer]

I think Victarion may serve a purpose in that he is potentially antagonistic to Dany, is working at the behest of a magic-user who may bear Dany some ill will, and has a magical tool that could enslave her dragons.

Whereas Asha is very clearly on Dany's side and is not a threat to her.

I suspect the dusky woman which Euron gave Victarion (remember, Euron's gifts are poison) is actually Euron in disguise. This is why the dusky woman always hisses when she sees Moqorro, as red priests are shown to be able to work a glamor to disguise a person(Rattleshirt/Mance). Euron's using Victarion to sneak himself to Slaver's Bay, while everyone thinks he's back on Pyke. When the moment's perfect, he'll drop the glamor and reveal himself to Victarion and the Iron Fleet (breaking Victarion's mind in the process, when he realizes he's been confiding in, and having sex with, his brother for the last six or so months).

I realize that's probably not what's gonna happen, but man, it would make for a horrifying realization for Victarion, and it would be the perfect way to kill him off.

[MKSheppard]

Imma go out there and put out my tinfoil theory for Season 7:
Spoiler

Lord Stoneheart = Stannis.

Facts:

1.) Cat Stark died at the end-ish of Season 3. It's now Season 7. Even taking into account "time dilation" from jumping around, she's been dead far too long to revive successfully, as her body would be a warm goo by now.

2.) Lord Beric Dondarrion is still "alive" and walking with Mr. "I Fucking Love Chicken" Sandor.

3.) Stannis only "recently" died, and died in a extremely cold area.

4.) Melisandre was last seen riding out into the wilderness alone.

So...it's not as crackpotty as it might sound at first blush.

[FaxModem1]

Or, you know, they trimmed the fat and Lady\Lord Stonebeart is an unnecessary character that doesn't amount to anything.

[Guardsman Bass]

I think Victarion may serve a purpose in that he is potentially antagonistic to Dany, is working at the behest of a magic-user who may bear Dany some ill will, and has a magical tool that could enslave her dragons.

Whereas Asha is very clearly on Dany's side and is not a threat to her.

I suspect the dusky woman which Euron gave Victarion (remember, Euron's gifts are poison) is actually Euron in disguise. This is why the dusky woman always hisses when she sees Moqorro, as red priests are shown to be able to work a glamor to disguise a person(Rattleshirt/Mance). Euron's using Victarion to sneak himself to Slaver's Bay, while everyone thinks he's back on Pyke. When the moment's perfect, he'll drop the glamor and reveal himself to Victarion and the Iron Fleet (breaking Victarion's mind in the process, when he realizes he's been confiding in, and having sex with, his brother for the last six or so months).

I realize that's probably not what's gonna happen, but man, it would make for a horrifying realization for Victarion, and it would be the perfect way to kill him off.

I won't go into specifics, but there's a pre-read Winds of Winter chapter that Martin has read at a convention that nixes this (it's from Aeron Greyjoy's POV and features Euron). Euron seems to be heading for something . . . much more horrifying. And which I don't think they'll do in the show, both for budgetary reasons and because Sam's not that important.

It's too bad, because that would be freaking hilarious if the "Dusky Woman" theory was true, given Victarion.

Or, you know, they trimmed the fat and Lady\Lord Stonebeart is an unnecessary character that doesn't amount to anything.

It seemed like they might be hinting at a resurrection of her near the end of the season, conspicuously name-dropping Catelyn and showing Beric Dondarrion still alive. But now I think they're just dropping the character - if anyone fills that role, it's going to be Arya at some point next season (still alive Arya).

[Ralin]

I suspect the dusky woman which Euron gave Victarion (remember, Euron's gifts are poison) is actually Euron in disguise. This is why the dusky woman always hisses when she sees Moqorro, as red priests are shown to be able to work a glamor to disguise a person(Rattleshirt/Mance). Euron's using Victarion to sneak himself to Slaver's Bay, while everyone thinks he's back on Pyke. When the moment's perfect, he'll drop the glamor and reveal himself to Victarion and the Iron Fleet (breaking Victarion's mind in the process, when he realizes he's been confiding in, and having sex with, his brother for the last six or so months).

I expect the reality is that Euron is periodically possessing her as a spy.

It's too bad, because that would be freaking hilarious if the "Dusky Woman" theory was true, given Victarion.

As I recall there's one scene where Victarion is called in/goes to see Euron in his chambers and Euron is just sitting there with an open robe and reeking of sex and Victarion just kinda rolls his eyes and thinks "Goddamn it Euron." In a tone that makes it clear that casual creepy sexual shit is something he expects from his brother.

[Guardsman Bass]

The more I think about Arya's execution of Walder Frey, the more it annoys me. It's a cool-looking scene, but it really feels like the show putting a "wouldn't it be cool?" scene first that doesn't work quite as well when you look at it deeper. "Arya making it over super-fast" doesn't bother me quite so much, because there's an implication that the storylines are not happening simultaneously in the TV series (and definitely not in the books). But did she murder an innocent maid to steal her face and infiltrate, even despite balking at murdering Lady Crane earlier on? Did she commandeer a kitchen in order to bake Frey Pie?

Oh well. Another one of Those Things where they're checking off boxes.

[FaxModem1]

Is there a lore reason why the bookshelves in the Maester library have chains on them? Or are they there for a practical reason?

[NecronLord]

Practical, to stop them being nicked. Books are waaay more valuable in a medieval society.

There are some medieval chained libraries still in existance.